80 replies to this topic

[GMiranda]

The comparison between Michel and Alain Ferte is interesting.  There is an interview with the latter in a recent edition of Echappement Classic and this is from a thread on TNF posted fourteen years ago (!) . . .

 

Originally posted by ghinzani
From that lost era of French drivers, Fabien Giroix, Michel Ferte and Alain Ferte. The latter was outbid by Berg for the Osella drive in mid 86.

 

On his day (and that was when everything had to be just right - and there clearly weren't enough of them!), Alain Ferte was very good.

Witness his drives against supposedly better team mates (e.g Bellof) when, on the right day, they simply couldn't compete with him.

I know for a fact that Bellof, for one, was badly psyched out on one occasion, at least.

In terms of French drivers, I would say Alain Ferte and Eric Cheli were the two biggest talents that never fulfilled their true potential, with Jean-Marc Gounon and, possibly, Michelle Trolle next up.

This doesn't take into consideration Dayan and Solomon; a different era and very difficult to really compare.

I think Michel was more gifted but, as Hugues de Chaunac told, he didn't focus himself the samw way.

 

From the interviws on Echappement Classic, Alain had a slight chance with Renault in 1983, was considered for the doomed Ligier/Mike Curb CART project in 1984 and to replace Danner at Osella in 1986. Michel signed with Ligier for 1984, but lost the place for the francs of Hesnault and remained there as test driver for three seasons, then he was near signing with Arrows in 1987, and had the chance to replace Streiff at AGS in 1989.

[sstiel]

About Michel, why didn't he get the Arrows and AGS drives? 

There's a picture of Alain testing a Renault. 

Edited by sstiel, 16 April 2020 - 12:46.

[GMiranda]

No money....

[sstiel]

Well an argument could be if he or Alain were good enough, they would have found backers.

[GMiranda]

Well an argument could be if he or Alain were good enough, they would have found backers.

Yes, and in most cases it's right, even if I don't agree so much with it in so many cases. Michel caught Marlboro's attention and was at his peak, but lost his place at Ligier because Hesnault arrived with more money and few credentials.

Surer and Giacomelli were amazing drivers, they had great careers in lower formulae and on other categories, but they never managed a top drive. Even Mansell, he was awfully luck when he had that chance with Chapman, and Mansell was truly talented. Lotterer was brillaint, but he couldn't find a place in F1. I use to say that, in life, money atracts money. OK, the Fertés might not have been WC material, but in most situations you only have a good career in F1 if you have a special gift or if you have a strong backing.

[BRG]

I haven't seen anyone but his brother praise Paul Warwick, i.e. of those whose judgement I'd trust. He didn't really show much outside of his championship year in British F3000, did he? And remind me, who else won that championship in other years, and who did Warwick beat? C'mon, without looking it up!

 

I had to look it up, and it took some effort.  Only because it is lockdown time, and because the Warwicks come from one of my favourite little town, New Alresford in Hampshire, a pretty little place with a Georgian main street, some good pubs, local traders, a steam railway, watercress farms and a trout stream (the River Alre) so clear you can see the brown trout swimming around.  It was the base for Warwick Trailers (now sold and moved to Southampton) the eponymous family business.  Both Derek and Paul Warwick were rarities in that they both started in short oval racing rather than karts before moving to mainstream racing.  

 

It should surprise nobody if Derek thought well of his little brother Paul who did very well in F. Ford but not when he moved to F3  He dominated the 1991 British F3000 series, taking pole position at the first 5 rounds and winning them all, albeit the last one at Oulton Park posthumously.  There were a further 6 rounds, yet Warwick still won the series.   Although there were some decent drivers in the series, none could really be described as top line stars.  He might have scraped into F1, as did others of an equal calibre, but I doubt he would have made any impression or stayed very long.

 

CHAMPIONSHIP STANDINGS 1991:

 

Pos/Driver/Points

1 Paul Warwick (GB) 45

2 Fredrik Ekblom (S) 42

3 Julian Westwood (GB) 41

4 Richard Dean (GB) 32

5 Dave Coyne (GB) 25

6 Phil Andrews (GB) 21

7 Jerome Policand (F) 19

8 Jason Elliot (GB) 16

9 Marco Greco (BR) 11

10 "Gimax Jr." (I) 7

11 Jose Luis di Palma (RA) 5

12 Frederic Gosparini (F) 4

13 Harald Huysman (N) 3

= Alain Plasch (B) 3

15 Eugene O'Brien (GB) 1

 

This series was well supported in 1991, with more entries than British F3 that year but quantity rather than quality perhaps.

Edited by BRG, 16 April 2020 - 20:46.

[ensign14]

Coyne only drove for the last few races.  With a fair wind he might have beaten Warwick's points total.  Got him a one-off "proper" F3000 ride but he was so fast in testing Giovanna Amati demanded she drive the car, with Coyne stuck in a year-old chassis.  Had more raw speed than anyone in that series.  Just that his build was more Gonzalez than Prost and his finances more Henton than Stroll.

[Mallory Dan]

I must agree with BRG, Warwick Junior never really set the world alight in the junior formulae here did he? I felt at the time he benefitted from the 'family name' syndrome. In that period there was Hill, Warwick Junior, the Brabhams, and Paul Stewart, all seemed to get drives more easily than others with different surnames. They all had talent, I fully accept, Damon especially, but not as good I reckon as the likes of Coyne, Wallace, or McNish of that era. 

[Michael Ferner]

CHAMPIONSHIP STANDINGS 1991:

(...)
This series was well supported in 1991, with more entries than British F3 that year but quantity rather than quality perhaps.

Which was my point: none of those drivers did well even only in international F 3000, with the possible exception of Policand who only ever went well in Sicily, anyway. David Coyne aside, who may have been affected by frustration at this stage of his career, that was just a pool of toy fish, nothing to prepare you for swimming with the sharks. Also, I don't hink British F 3000 was ever better supported than F 3 - was there ever a race with even only 20 starters? A cursory check shows no F 3 race in '91 with fewer than 20, and that's including Barrichello, Coulthard, de Ferran etc. - very different kind of fish! Mind you, Warwick had already been through three seasons of British F 3, steadily going backwards...

As for Michel Ferté having "no money", he was a Marlboro driver for crissakes, the perfect door opener for a junior driver! Except, if you wanted a drive in a Gauloises-blue car...

[F1matt]

I must agree with BRG, Warwick Junior never really set the world alight in the junior formulae here did he? I felt at the time he benefitted from the 'family name' syndrome. In that period there was Hill, Warwick Junior, the Brabhams, and Paul Stewart, all seemed to get drives more easily than others with different surnames. They all had talent, I fully accept, Damon especially, but not as good I reckon as the likes of Coyne, Wallace, or McNish of that era. 

 

Nothing changes. Paul Warwick could have gone unbeaten that season he was so far ahead of the field, he clearly enjoyed the more powerful cars. I think his brother could have opened doors for him for the following season in International F3000 and maybe a F1 test, failing that he would have ended up in Japan or WEC so he could have had a decent career in the sport. He wouldn't have been the first driver to excel when they stepped up to more powerful single seaters, I would put Damon Hill in that bracket and he ended up as world champion. 

[BRG]

Coyne only drove for the last few races.  With a fair wind he might have beaten Warwick's points total. 

 

Not so, he only missed the first three rounds and was beaten by Warwick in both Q and race at rounds 4 & 5.  He only won two races thereafter.  He would have needed a very strong wind!

 

 

 Also, I don't think British F 3000 was ever better supported than F 3 - was there ever a race with even only 20 starters? 

There were about 49 drivers who took in at least one race in 1991, although you are right that individual races weren't that well supported. 

Edited by BRG, 17 April 2020 - 11:58.

[sstiel]

http://www.dailyspor...s-im-quick.html Alain is enjoying himself. 

 

[GMiranda]

Which was my point: none of those drivers did well even only in international F 3000, with the possible exception of Policand who only ever went well in Sicily, anyway. David Coyne aside, who may have been affected by frustration at this stage of his career, that was just a pool of toy fish, nothing to prepare you for swimming with the sharks. Also, I don't hink British F 3000 was ever better supported than F 3 - was there ever a race with even only 20 starters? A cursory check shows no F 3 race in '91 with fewer than 20, and that's including Barrichello, Coulthard, de Ferran etc. - very different kind of fish! Mind you, Warwick had already been through three seasons of British F 3, steadily going backwards...

As for Michel Ferté having "no money", he was a Marlboro driver for crissakes, the perfect door opener for a junior driver! Except, if you wanted a drive in a Gauloises-blue car...

Apparently Marlboro money wasn't enough for Guy Ligier. Had they Gauloises sponsorship that year? They had hired Des Cesaris, who was a Marlboro driver too.

[sstiel]

Yes they did. De Cesaris had a closer relationship with Marlboro which would have helped.

[KWSN - DSM]

Yes they did. De Cesaris had a closer relationship with Marlboro which would have helped.

 

Son of Marlboro Italy P.R. Manager or something like that as I recall it.

 

[sstiel]

De Cesaris's father was a wholesaler for Marlboro. 

 

It'll be worth asking him but Hugues de Chaunac's quote is interesting, thinking Alain was the more determined of the two. Michel may disagree! There are photos of the Martini on Michel Ferte's Facebook page.

Edited by sstiel, 17 April 2020 - 21:19.

[LittleChris]

I must agree with BRG, Warwick Junior never really set the world alight in the junior formulae here did he? I felt at the time he benefitted from the 'family name' syndrome. In that period there was Hill, Warwick Junior, the Brabhams, and Paul Stewart, all seemed to get drives more easily than others with different surnames. They all had talent, I fully accept, Damon especially, but not as good I reckon as the likes of Coyne, Wallace, or McNish of that era. 

 I agree Dan, I think Paul's level was obvious in F3 with a bunch that overall wouldn't be viewed as being of the highest quality.    

[sstiel]

Paul Warwick is covered in other threads. He clearly flourished in more powerful cars. I don't know if up and coming drivers can do that today, decide that things are not working out in a particular series and decide to try powerful cars. Niki Lauda did likewise.

 

Alain Ferte spent a long time in F2 and then F3000.  Same with Michel? 

[GMiranda]

Paul Warwick is covered in other threads. He clearly flourished in more powerful cars. I don't know if up and coming drivers can do that today, decide that things are not working out in a particular series and decide to try powerful cars. Niki Lauda did likewise.

 

Alain Ferte spent a long time in F2 and then F3000.  Same with Michel? 

Yes, Michel also spent a lot of years there.

[ensign14]

But they were both competitive from entry (Michel more so than Alain).  It wasn't the sort of Sospiri thing of hanging around until everyone had gone to score a few cheap wins.

 

Oddly enough neither of them ever won a race in the formula, but Michel came close to doing so about a dozen times.  Perhaps the same lack of killer instinct that meant he never quite landed the F1 drive that looked to be his? 

[MCS]

Alain Ferte dominated the 1983 F2 race at Pau, winning by some distance from Maurer team-mate Bellof, but both were disqualified for being underweight.  The latter was not happy at being beaten apparently and after a couple more races the Frenchman left the team.  Michel Ferte failed to qualify the works Martini at the Pau race.

 

Whilst I know Paul Warwick had a test outing in an Arrows F1 car, how many times did the Ferte brothers drive a Grand Prix car I wonder? 

 

Edit: spelling mistake

Edited by MCS, 18 April 2020 - 18:56.

[GMiranda]

Alain Ferte dominated the 1983 F2 race at Pau, winning by some distance from Maurer team-mate Bellof, but both were disqualified for being underweight.  The latter was not happy at being beaten apparently and after a couple more races the Frenchman left the team.  Michel Ferte failed to qualify the works Martini at the Pau race.

 

Whilst I know Paul Warwick had a test outing in an Arrows F1 car, how many times did the Ferte brothers drive a Grand Prix car I wonder? 

 

Edit: spelling mistake

From my sources, Alain lost his place at Maurer because a sponsor pulloed out his support.

At least, Michel drove the Ligier late in 1983 at Paul Ricard, the same day Carlos Reutemann asked Guy Ligier to do some laps for sheer pleasure.

[sstiel]

Both the brothers did F1 tests. Alain in a Renault and Michel in the Ligier.

https://www.youtube....h?v=WGYbjMkb_FE Alain Ferte recently.

 

https://www.youtube....rsfMexKA&t=201s The 1985 F3000 review.

I wonder what barriers up and coming French drivers faced during that time.

 

https://www.motorspo...ifted-and-black About the Maurer team.

Edited by sstiel, 18 April 2020 - 19:30.

[sstiel]

Nice to see Alain Ferte in action at the Monaco Historique.

[GMiranda]

It seems Michel Ferté died today after a long illness.

[Richard Jenkins]

It seems Michel Ferté died today after a long illness.

Oh, what terrible news.

64 is no age at all. A multiple champion, he deserved a lot better than one test with Ligier (IIRC).

Was still quite involved with the sport before illness.

Confirmed by ACO by the way - https://www.ouest-fr...b2-0b86ee40425f

[GMiranda]

Oh, what terrible news.

64 is no age at all. A multiple champion, he deserved a lot better than one test with Ligier (IIRC).

Was still quite involved with the sport before illness.

Confirmed by ACO by the way - https://www.ouest-fr...b2-0b86ee40425f

I knew from Autodiva he was suffering from cancer, and it was a hard battle.

[sabrejet]

A multiple champion, he deserved a lot better than one test with Ligier (IIRC).

 

 

He did three Le Mans 24 Hours for Jaguar! Hardly a career lacking in recognition.

[sstiel]

Sad news. French motorsport has had sad news during recent weeks. Several French newspapers have confirmed the news as has Autosport: https://www.autospor...ed-64/10417202/

Edited by sstiel, 04 January 2023 - 20:50.

[LittleChris]

RIP Michel

[FLB]

Can 2023 let off? Just a bit?