72 replies to this topic

[HamiltonRules]

Eddie Jordan suggests that Lewis Hamiltons lacks the necessary arrogance.

“Would he do what Michael Schumacher did to Damon Hill? That’s not cheating, it’s sport. Would he knock him into the wall? You need to do that to win. Winning is in the mind, and you have to do it at all costs. Anyone who tells you different is either lying or hasn't achieved what they're capable of. There has to be a steely aspect that we haven't seen, otherwise Hamilton will be swamped.

Part of Michael’s greatness was his arrogance. Any great person in any walk of life has to have a very self-opinionated, selfish, arrogant and commanding view of where they should be in the limelight. I don’t think there is a darker side to Hamilton, which will defy logic.

Hamilton needs to have that arrogance otherwise he will not succeed. Is Sir Alex Ferguson arrogant? Absolutely. Is José Mourinho arrogant? Totally. Winners are not nice people. They try to be, but they are immensely selfish, immensely arrogant and have a total belief in their own ability. Hamilton seems to have a double persona, but if he doesn’t have that arrogance then it will be his downfall.

Michael always ensured, first and foremost, that he would have a driver in the team that he had control over. Alonso’s flaw is he’s a double world champion but omitted a clause saying he was the No 1. He clearly felt Hamilton was not up to it."

[Limits]

Eddie Jordan is an idiot. That was what made his downfall.

[RDM]

Eddie Jordan may be many things, but an idiot he is not. However, Jordan does have a book to promote ATM.

He can talk the hind legs off the proverbial donkey at the best of times, but now even more so. He'll get an idea into his head and ramble on about it for 5 hours. If he spoke a second later, he'd have a different angle, and ramble on about that for 5 hours. It gets him in the press, and - when you're flogging a book - no publicity is bad publicity.

Wind him up and watch him go...

[Keverich]

Originally posted by HamiltonRules
Eddie Jordan suggests that Lewis Hamiltons lacks the necessary arrogance.

“Would he do what Michael Schumacher did to Damon Hill? That’s not cheating, it’s sport. Would he knock him into the wall? You need to do that to win. Winning is in the mind, and you have to do it at all costs. Anyone who tells you different is either lying or hasn't achieved what they're capable of. There has to be a steely aspect that we haven't seen, otherwise Hamilton will be swamped.

Part of Michael’s greatness was his arrogance. Any great person in any walk of life has to have a very self-opinionated, selfish, arrogant and commanding view of where they should be in the limelight. I don’t think there is a darker side to Hamilton, which will defy logic.

Hamilton needs to have that arrogance otherwise he will not succeed. Is Sir Alex Ferguson arrogant? Absolutely. Is José Mourinho arrogant? Totally. Winners are not nice people. They try to be, but they are immensely selfish, immensely arrogant and have a total belief in their own ability. Hamilton seems to have a double persona, but if he doesn’t have that arrogance then it will be his downfall.

Michael always ensured, first and foremost, that he would have a driver in the team that he had control over. Alonso’s flaw is he’s a double world champion but omitted a clause saying he was the No 1. He clearly felt Hamilton was not up to it."

That is funny!

Do you have a source for that?

[HP]

And what was Eddie Jordan's downfall?

Confusing determination with arrogance?

[Hacklerf]

HA!

I like Eddie Jordan, hes a fighter, worked wonders to keep Jordan up as long as he did

[george_boy]

Eddie speaks the truth
If you disagree we all know why YOU failed in life

[Keverich]

Jordan urges patience with Hamilton

By Pablo Elizalde Thursday, May 17th 2007, 10:51 GMT


Former team boss Eddie Jordan has warned to be patient with Lewis Hamilton despite the Briton's sensational start to his maiden Formula One season.

Hamilton has become the youngest driver in history to lead a championship, after moving to the top of the standings following his third consecutive second place finish at last Sunday's Spanish Grand Prix.

The British driver has enjoyed a flawless season so far, but Jordan reckons the media will have to show patience when he starts making mistakes.

"The media have a responsibility to be patient because when he has those problems he still has to be given credit. This is an exceptional talent," Jordan was quoted as saying by AFP.

Jordan believes Hamilton will need to be "supremely arrogant" in the car to become a regular winner in Formula One.

"There has to be something steely there, that we hope is in there. If there isn't he'll be swamped," Jordan said. "You need to be supremely arrogant. We haven't seen it yet but you need to have it and if he doesn't it will be his downfall.

"Winners generally are not nice people, they try to be but are immensely selfish, immensely arrogant, have total belief in their own ability and nothing else matters when they are at work. Hamilton seems to have a double persona. He's a polite, hugely attractive young man.

"I guarantee you he's not like that in the car, which is nice because many people can't differentiate."

The Irishman also reckons Hamilton's form has caught world champion Fernando Alonso by surprise.

"Alonso clearly thought he wouldn't be up to it, but to be fair I didn't think he'd be up to it," Jordan added.

[MarlBorOBR]

Originally posted by Limits
Eddie Jordan is an idiot. That was what made his downfall.

I agree! Funny if he defends those craps MS did, why hasn´t him used that for his team as well?

Hamilton is doing better than the 2xWDC who beat Schumacher and he wants him to change his way to be? And follow the advices from such a loser as Jordan?

[RDM]

Originally posted by MarlBorOBR


I agree! Funny if he defends those craps MS did, why hasn´t him used that for his team as well?

You're not ****ing serious are you?

Which team gave Schumacher his F1 debut?

(Clue - its starts with a 'J')

[Lazarus II]

Originally posted by HamiltonRules
Eddie Jordan suggests that Lewis Hamiltons lacks the necessary arrogance.

“Would he do what Michael Schumacher did to Damon Hill? That’s not cheating, it’s sport. Would he knock him into the wall? You need to do that to win. Winning is in the mind, and you have to do it at all costs. Anyone who tells you different is either lying or hasn't achieved what they're capable of. There has to be a steely aspect that we haven't seen, otherwise Hamilton will be swamped.

This paragraph shows Eddies' true nature and his lack of integrity. You do not need to have a "winning at all costs" attitude to succeed in sport. "knocking someone into the wall" is not "sport" it is blatant cheating. A true sportsman, (great examples are Byron Nelson, Bobby Jones, Jack Nicklaus), have all called penalties on themselves as they had seen that they had gone against the rules. That IMO is the measure of a true sportsman. Someone who can call a penalty on oneself even though no one else had seen the infraction. That take courage and integrity. Knocking someone into the wall or driving into a fellow competitor to win is the cowards way.

IMO Eddie has shown that he is unsure of himself and would rather be a coward. I pity you Eddie, and I'm glad I never played golf with you; I'm sure you would cheat.

[Limits]

Originally posted by RDM

You're not ****ing serious are you?

Which team gave Schumacher his F1 debut?

(Clue - its starts with a 'J')

I think he was asking why he did not ask Nick, Frenzen and the other drivers of his team to run people off track.

Any respect I had for Eddie disappeared when I heard a radio show titled something "The trial of Michael Schumacher". He was unreal. And not in a positive way.

[Risil]

Eddie has some real Michael Schumacher hang-ups, huh?

[RDM]

Originally posted by Risil
Eddie has some real Michael Schumacher hang-ups, huh?

Quite the opposite - Jordan has no hang ups about Schumacher at all.

A lot of people do have hang ups about Schumacher, e.g. many of those who were soundly and repeatedly beaten by him, and many in this forum who take childish pleasure in magnifying any transgressions by Schumacher and being oblivious to the transgressions of other drivers. (Much like a certain team boss).

[Risil]

Originally posted by RDM

Quite the opposite - Jordan has no hang ups about Schumacher at all.

A lot of people do have hang ups about Schumacher, e.g. many of those who were soundly and repeatedly beaten by him, and many in this forum who take childish pleasure in magnifying any transgressions by Schumacher and being oblivious to the transgressions of other drivers. (Much like a certain team boss).

His hang-ups are for the fact that Schumacher was stolen from him by Briatore, and ever since he's been obsessed with his talent, and absolutely blind to his shortcomings.

[Owen]

Originally posted by RDM

Quite the opposite - Jordan has no hang ups about Schumacher at all.

A lot of people do have hang ups about Schumacher, e.g. many of those who were soundly and repeatedly beaten by him, and many in this forum who take childish pleasure in magnifying any transgressions by Schumacher and being oblivious to the transgressions of other drivers. (Much like a certain team boss).

All the same, those transgressions have stained the image and reputation of Schumacher in the eyes of everyone but the most blinkered of fans.

[Risil]

Originally posted by Owen


All the same, those transgressions have stained the image and reputation of Schumacher in the eyes of everyone but the most blinkered of fans.

Would Schumacher have had the same success if he didn't possess the kind of self-belief that led him to make those transgressions, though? I would say no.

[MarlBorOBR]

Originally posted by RDM

You're not ****ing serious are you?

Which team gave Schumacher his F1 debut?

(Clue - its starts with a 'J')

So? In that time Schumacher only took place at jordan because Gachot (if im not mistaken) had been jailled and he replaced him! Eddie Jordan didn´t know **** about Schumacher back then and none of us!

Funny, who starts with a J that hired the same Damon Hill who was beat that way by Schumacher? Eddie Jordan double standards don´t make any sense at all

[Owen]

Originally posted by Risil


Would Schumacher have had the same success if he didn't possess the kind of self-belief that led him to make those transgressions, though? I would say no.

Perhaps, perhaps not. The fact that Schuey himself regrets some of these transgressions is interesting.
There are 'ways' of winning, there is sportsmanship and there is fair play, these are important values to some.

[united]

Come on, give Jordan a break. He should sell his autobiography.

[RDM]

Originally posted by Owen


All the same, those transgressions have stained the image and reputation of Schumacher in the eyes of everyone but the most blinkered of fans.

Not really - his image is stained in the eyes of people who cannot think for themselves and base their judgements on the lowest common denominator mob-mentality espoused by those who shout the loudest.

The fact that the Sun-reader mentality wins out is a reason to condemn the idiotic perpetuators of myths, not those who have been incorrectly maligned.

And I think you know that....but aren't prepared to put your head above the parapet, and I can understand that.

[Risil]

Originally posted by Owen


Perhaps, perhaps not. The fact that Schuey himself regrets some of these transgressions is interesting.
There are 'ways' of winning, there is sportsmanship and there is fair play, these are important values to some.

I think we should take Schumacher's regrets with a pinch of salt - without apologising for the Jerez and Monaco 'incidents' he most probably wouldn't have had a World Championship to take part in.

And while important, sportsmanship and fair play is not mandatory, indeed the very fact that it isn't enables it to be possible. for the new generation leading F1, who do not seem to be disposed towards such transgressions. Eddie Jordan may not be able to see it, but it is perfectly possible to be a success in motor racing without resorting to crass intimidation à la Schumacher or Senna.

[RDM]

Originally posted by Owen


Perhaps, perhaps not. The fact that Schuey himself regrets some of these transgressions is interesting.
There are 'ways' of winning, there is sportsmanship and there is fair play, these are important values to some.

One man's Schuey at Jerez 97 is another man's Alonso at Barcelona 07.

Schumacher has shown remarkable sportsmanship as well as exceptional determination and professionalism. F1 is a sport about fighting on the edge, and sometimes you will go over it, as did Seenna, as did Schumacher as has Alonso.

[Risil]

Originally posted by RDM

One man's Schuey at Jerez 97 is another man's Alonso at Barcelona 07.

If that man were desperately attempting to prove that Schumacher was no more unsporting and ruthless than his contemporaries, perhaps.

[Group B]

Originally posted by Owen


Perhaps, perhaps not. The fact that Schuey himself regrets some of these transgressions is interesting.
There are 'ways' of winning, there is sportsmanship and there is fair play, these are important values to some.

Michael's biggest regret should be (and I suspect is) Jerez '97. Monaco last year was cretinous, but, I believe, only semi-intentional and more stupid and dirty. Incidents such as that are simply wrong, no question, but many of us have done stupid things in desperation, especially on the spur of the moment, and I think it unfortunate that said incidents are better remembered by some than the 200+ pefectly clean and often brilliant performances.

[santori]

The sort of arrogance which makes you think you can sue a massive telecommunications company over a non-existent contract and get away with it? There might be an urge to transgress rules but that is why there should be heavy penalties for those who do so.

Fortunately Hamilton doesn't seem to have anything like that sort of arrogance but it's not as if he's an innocent elf. From down here things seemed to get a bit fraught last year as Piquet was gaining on him.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by HP
Confusing determination with arrogance?

[Jodum5]

Eddie Jordan is talking out of his ass, i think. I think the one remarkable trait about Hamilton is his quiet confidence. Which I personally find a little annoying. It seems like he may be too good to really toot his own horn or pull the "i dont care about other people" (a la raikkonen) routine. He just smiles and kick's ass.

If Lewis Hamilton can keep that attitude and wind up doing really well in the sport (a few WDCs) then that will be a really remarkable phenomenon and what the sport could use .

[brunopascal]

Jordan is wrong; arrogance or ruthlessness is no prerequisite.

I've only read a few stories about Fangio and Clark, but they didn't seem to be particularly arrogant.
I think it was Fangio who once said: "Be the best, but never think you are". Doesn't sound too arrogant to me, and he won 5 WDC.

Prost wasn't too arrogant either, and AFAIK, he really only once went over the top in his conduct, and that was Suzuka '89. (That incident is still debatable on whether he was wrong or not, though).

Hamilton is doing just fine.

[Limits]

Personally I think that at least some of the "humbleness" in Hamilton's character is an act. His father never misses a chance to point out how he well he is brought up and so on. I think that his own true character will show sooner or later, but I sure hope it will be nothing like the character Eddie requests.

[Lazarus II]

Originally posted by RDM

many in this forum who take childish pleasure in magnifying any transgressions by Schumacher

transgressions sounds so innocuous. It was a nice try on the spin though.

It's almost as though you would step in front of a speeding train for him. Sad really.

[Vilenova]

“Would he do what Michael Schumacher did to Damon Hill? That’s not cheating, it’s sport.

Whatever Eddie.

Michael was good for F1 but he did do some cheap, dangerous stunts in the name of winning on track.

[Risil]

Originally posted by Limits
Personally I think that at least some of the "humbleness" in Hamilton's character is an act. His father never misses a chance to point out how he well he is brought up and so on. I think that his own true character will show sooner or later, but I sure hope it will be nothing like the character Eddie requests.

You cynic!

[Atreiu]

Why do people still ask Eddie questions???

[pRy]

Originally posted by Atreiu
Why do people still ask Eddie questions???

He is doing PR for his book. He was on TV over the weekend here on a cookery show talking about F1 and his book. He has used the Hamilton success to push his book.

[Limits]

Do you know if he, in his book, mentions the fact that Schumi started his F1 career in his car?

[pRy]

Originally posted by Limits
Do you know if he, in his book, mentions the fact that Schumi started his F1 career in his car?

He also claims Bernie stole him.

[giacomo]

Herewith I officially announce my support for the petition "One thread for every stupid comment of an ex member of the F1 circus."

[Ross Stonefeld]

I was in the paddock once, can I have a thread? Once was enough, it's really ****.

[giacomo]

Make a stupid comment, and the thread is yours.

[Fatgadget]

Originally posted by Limits
Personally I think that at least some of the "humbleness" in Hamilton's character is an act. His father never misses a chance to point out how he well he is brought up and so on. I think that his own true character will show sooner or later, but I sure hope it will be nothing like the character Eddie requests.

I think that his own true character will show sooner or later,

I concur.An incident like that one that had Hakkers crying in the bushes is bound to happen to him sooner or latter then we will sell his true character not this perfected choreographed performance he is displaying at the moment.

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by giacomo
Herewith I officially announce my support for the petition "One thread for every stupid comment of an ex member of the F1 circus."

Why one? I say two.
One for those who agree and another for those who don't.

[Risil]

Originally posted by Freezing Touch
Eddie Jordan is an arrogant idiot. Maybe he should just keep his mouth shut instead of removing all doubt.

I dont see at all how being arrogant is beneficial for a F1 driver. Usually the arrogant ones detract their own success most. It's proved more efficient to focus on your own doing than other's.

Arrogance often goes hand-in-hand with confidence and self-belief, which are paramount to the success of almost any sportsperson. While not beneficial, when confidence and self-belief exist arrogance can develop, with little detriment to the performance of said sports dude.

[Limits]

Originally posted by Risil
While not beneficial, when confidence and self-belief exist arrogance can develop, with little detriment to the performance of said sports dude.

clicky

[ntd]

Originally posted by HamiltonRules
Eddie Jordan suggests that Lewis Hamiltons lacks the necessary arrogance.

“
Michael always ensured, first and foremost, that he would have a driver in the team that he had control over. Alonso’s flaw is he’s a double world champion but omitted a clause saying he was the No 1. He clearly felt Hamilton was not up to it."

Michael's gang ( part of it) : Tom W, Eddie J, Jean Todt. They do WHATEVER they need to win. Cheating included.

[Juan Kerr]

Whoever said Hamilton has no arrogance hasn't watched him enough, he knows how to look down his nose when he wants to, if he wins the world championship he will probably have the perfect blend of respect and self-assurance and be the most stable champion there has been for a while.
I mean lookat some of the champions, Jackie Stewart, Nigel Mansell(egotistical but not arrogant), Mika Hakkinen. I personally would argue that Senna, Schumacher and Prost were just defensive and not arrogant anyway.

[COUGAR508]

Maybe Eddie has a point. Lewis has not yet faced adversity in his F1 career, and we have not yet had the opportunity to assess his full personality and mentality. Everyone has personality flaws to some degree, and F1 generally exposes these to the full. We shall see.

[Porsche996]

Originally posted by RDM

Not really - his image is stained in the eyes of people who cannot think for themselves and base their judgements on the lowest common denominator mob-mentality espoused by those who shout the loudest.

The fact that the Sun-reader mentality wins out is a reason to condemn the idiotic perpetuators of myths, not those who have been incorrectly maligned.

And I think you know that....but aren't prepared to put your head above the parapet, and I can understand that.

Hmm, interested in knowing, RDM, do you think that Schumachers actions against Hill and Villeneuve are admirable? At the same time, do you think that an athlete who takes steroids is admirable? After all, both are just doing this to win. Surely, winning is everything, and if you have to take steroids, or crash into people to win, then this is ok?

[hedges]

Originally posted by Lazarus II

This paragraph shows Eddies' true nature and his lack of integrity. You do not need to have a "winning at all costs" attitude to succeed in sport. "knocking someone into the wall" is not "sport" it is blatant cheating. A true sportsman, (great examples are Byron Nelson, Bobby Jones, Jack Nicklaus), have all called penalties on themselves as they had seen that they had gone against the rules. That IMO is the measure of a true sportsman. Someone who can call a penalty on oneself even though no one else had seen the infraction. That take courage and integrity. Knocking someone into the wall or driving into a fellow competitor to win is the cowards way.

IMO Eddie has shown that he is unsure of himself and would rather be a coward. I pity you Eddie, and I'm glad I never played golf with you; I'm sure you would cheat.

Then there has probably never been a true sportsman in F1. I've never seen or heard of any F1 driver doing a drive through or stop and go because he new he jumped the start, went faster than he should under waved yellows or any other infraction.

[Risil]

Originally posted by hedges


Then there has probably never been a true sportsman in F1. I've never seen or heard of any F1 driver doing a drive through or stop and go because he new he jumped the start, went faster than he should under waved yellows or any other infraction.

Well, I know for a fact that Peter Collins handed his car over to Juan Manuel Fangio, and effectively the World Title, for the simple reason that he felt 'he deserved it more'. I'd say, if anything, that is an even purer example of sportsman ship than the one Lazarus II described. And I don't think you will find anything but praise for Collins' actions on that day, or his character or ability in general. For that is the benefit of maintaining the romantic amatueur sense of sportsmanship - the reputation of a driver, both as a man and a competitor, invariably transcends his results, and is judged outside of them accordingly.