31 replies to this topic

[Peter Morley]

There is a photo for sale on Ebay showing what is apparently an Essex sponsored 1981 Lotus indycar.

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

I know about the 1960's Lotus indycars and the 1984 Type 96 project, but this doesn't ring any bells. It certainly looks like an Essex sponsored indycar!

Does anyone know anything about it?

[Andrew Kitson]

Well it is Ketteringham, a mystery to me too! Are we sure it is a Lotus, perhaps an indycar chassis in Essex colours for a sponsor photo shoot?

[Twin Window]

It's 1980, and it's Andretti's works CART Penske.

[Rosemayer]

Penske Essex



http://www.indianapo...=13425&size=med

[Adam F]

Originally posted by Twin Window
It's 1980, and it's Andretti's works CART Penske.

The car in Peter's link doesn't look to me like the Penske raced by Andretti at Indy in 1980 (and shown in Rosemayer's link).............please explain

[Rosemayer]

Very similar but the ebay photo says 1981 still looks like a Penske car could be an 1981 version.I will keep looking.

[PeterElleray]

its the 1981 wildcat the Mario drove to 2nd place for Pat Patrick.

[Tim Murray]

It certainly looks more like the 1981 Wildcat than the 1980 Penske. But if the photo does date from 1981, why would it have been taken at Ketteringham, as Mario had left Lotus at the end of 1980, surely?

[Gary C]

it certainly doesn't look like any Lotus I've ever seen. But why would Mario have it at Kett Hall??

[Fiorentina 1]

BTW, what is Essex? Always wondered what that company did.

[Gary C]

An oil ompany, I thought (Essex Petroleum). Do a search for 'David Thieme'.

[mark f1]

Essex was an oil broking company owned by David Thieme based in Monaco, which basically bought and sold oil without ever seeing any.

Mark

[RA Historian]

First of all, I think we can all agree that it is not a Lotus. Secondly, it also is not a Penske. The nose of the car does look like a Wildcat Mk 8, but the side pods do not. A mystery. Perhaps a Phoenix? Mario drove for Patrick in the 1981 500, but in a Wildcat Mk 8. Now, if this photo was taken in the winter of 1980-81, perhaps the Wildcat that he was to drive in the 81 race was not ready, so they took one of Patrick's '80 Phoenix cars, painted it in Essex colors, and took the photo shoot. But then, as I recall, Essex did not sponsor Mario in the 81 race, and STP did, so if what I am speculating here is true, the photo never saw the light of day since the sponsorship deal fell through. Plausible?

I am curious as to the truth of the matter.... any more members out there who know more about this?
Tom

[Peter Darley]

Originally posted by Gary C
it certainly doesn't look like any Lotus I've ever seen. But why would Mario have it at Kett Hall??

If any member is going to GP Live at Donington on Friday / Saturday they could ask Mario in person !

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Peter Darley


If any member is going to GP Live at Donington on Friday / Saturday they could ask Mario in person !

Mario's memory is not the best these days, I doubt very much he'd remember anything at all, even if you showed him the photo.

[Peter Morley]

Having just dug out a Lotus book I realised that 1981 was the time of the twin-chassis dispute.

Chapman was so pee'd off at having his latest innovation banned maybe he threatened to go indycar racing.

So this could be a mock up to show the new direction of Lotus.

In which case I can think of two possibilities - one it isn't a full size car (and some clever photography) or it is something else disguised (as has been suggested already)?

Assuming Classic Team Lotus are at GP Live maybe someone could ask them?

[f1steveuk]

I recall a picture (or two) in GPI showing a launch, usual thing, dry ice, spotlights etc etc, and I am sure one cars was a Indy car, the other a 87b, but it is a long time since I saw the picture. If I can find the article, I'll have a read and post the result....................

[Twin Window]

Ok, here's where I went wrong!

I knew that somewhere I have a press kit from an Essex launch but, as I couldn't lay my hands on it straight away, I went from memory. I've now found the aforementioned - naturally, it was in amongst my 1966 World Cup Final clippings - and here's what was in it;







So that's the 1980 Penske PC9 I was thinking of earlier. Then I noticed that I clearly had two years worth of pics...





...including a copy (two, actually) of the print that started this whole debate.

Now I've had the chance to do a bit of digging, the above chassis is to my mind a 1980 Wildcat. Why it's there, I don't know - I presume as others have suggested that the new-for-1981 car wasn't ready.

Asking Mario is, as Kayemod pointed out, is a waste of time; his memory of events was hopeless even in 1991 when I last spent an evening with him. And in the b&w pics above they used mechanics to masquerade as the drivers for the purpose of the photo-shoot, so he wasn't even there.

Someone mentioned that Andretti was sponsored by STP at Indy in '81; this was certainly the case, and was presumably linked to the fall from grace of Essex who by then were defaulting on their payments to Lotus. You'll notice that the car was still in the basic Essex livery, just with STP in place of the E word.

At Monaco that year - which, from memory, was a week after Indy - Team Lotus were the centre of rumours that John Player were about to return as title sponsor thereby replacing Essex. David Thieme's sidekick Francois Mazet was running around like a headless chicken all weekend trying to quell the speculation, but it came about shortly afterwards (maybe even the next GP). From some point on not long after Monaco, Chapman ruled that the [by now drastically reduced] Essex branding would only appear on racedays...

[alain_sl]

here is a picture of the Wildcat at the Essex presentation


I think RA Historian's scenario is correct except that it was not secret car.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Twin Window
naturally, it was in amongst my 1966 World Cup Final clippings

Of course, of course. Where else would you have filed it?

[Adam F]

Here is the 1980 Wildcat, as it appeared at Indy in the hands of Tom Bagley.

http://www.indy500.c...es_id=Array&o=h

It looks like this is the car pictured at Ketteringham.

[RA Historian]

Alright, I knew you fellows could tie this all together!

So what it appears to be is the 1980 Wildcat Mk 4 done up in Essex livery in anticipation of the 81 season for a photo and/or sponsor event. Then Essex went away, STP stepped in, the Wildcat Mk 8 was built, and we get into the 81 season.

Sounds workable to me!

[kayemod]

Originally posted by RA Historian
Alright, I knew you fellows could tie this all together!

So what it appears to be is the 1980 Wildcat Mk 4 done up in Essex livery in anticipation of the 81 season for a photo and/or sponsor event. Then Essex went away, STP stepped in, the Wildcat Mk 8 was built, and we get into the 81 season.

Sounds workable to me!

The sheer depth of knowledge and experience shared by members of this forum never ceases to amaze me.

[Huw Jadvantich]

Not really relevant to the discussion, but dont they look fantastic . Thieme and Chapman might have beencooking the books, but what a fabulous livery they produced on fabulous looking cars - I guess Lotus nearly always did, but the Essex livery on an Indy car looks magnificent..

[Maldwyn]

Those Essex colours did look good on a racing car. Not quite in the black & gold league, but still good

[Pat Dennis]

The car is a Penske PC9, not a Lotus, Mario Andretti was the driver that year.

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by Pat Dennis
The car is a Penske PC9, not a Lotus, Mario Andretti was the driver that year.

Uhhhh, no Pat, it is not. Read the earlier posts and look at the photo posted of the Penske in Essex colors. It most definitely is not this car. I thought that we had settled the matter.

The conclusion reached on this matter is that the car is a Patrick Racing 1980 Wildcat Mk 4, which was painted in Essex colors for a photo shoot since the original sponsorship deal was with Essex. The 1981 Wildcats were still being built; hence the use of a year old car. The driver in the photo most likely is not Mario, but some chap in his helmet to make it look like Mario. Between the time of the sponsor photo shoot and the season's start, Essex pulled out and was replaced by STP as the main sponsor.

Again, see the photos posted above and compare and you will see that the consensus reached as I have just sumarized is.....it is not a Penske or a Lotus.

Getting back to the starting post here, who is going to tell the fellow who is trying to sell the photo that it is not what he is advertising?

[Peter Morley]

Don't know about telling him that it isn't as described, I still find myself drawn towards it.

But anyone who charges 3 quid to post a photo should be avoided, and perhaps if I ask Twinny nicely he'd let me have his duplicate photo....

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by RA Historian

The driver in the photo most likely is not Mario, but some chap in his helmet to make it look like Mario.

It wasn't Mario, nor was it de Angelis; they were mechanics (as I mentioned in my last post!).

Originally posted by Peter Morley

But anyone who charges 3 quid to post a photo should be avoided, and perhaps if I ask Twinny nicely he'd let me have his duplicate photo....

Cross my palm with silver, my son...!

[alain_sl]

would it be possible to have a bigger scan of the Essex press release cover?
I am curious to have a look at this logo (unknown to me) :



thanks in advance

[Twin Window]

It's just the Penske logo, Alain...

[alain_sl]

Originally posted by Twin Window
It's just the Penske logo, Alain...

oh... yes, thank you.