148 replies to this topic

[Mal9444]

I note that the Celebrated Person at this year's Goodwood Revival will be Roy Salvadori. I never saw Salvadori race. He was too late on the scene, I think, to come to Northern Ireland in the Dundrod days (or when Kirkiston could draw the occassional name, such as Ivor Bueb) but nonetheless he became a bit of a hero-once-removed for those of us at school there at the time who followed motor racing, especially sports car racing. Perhaps it was that despite the Italian name he was a Brit (thus good material for the trick question), perhaps it was because we liked Italian ice-cream.

There must, however, be many TNFers who did see him race, and there must be some good stories out there to share. By all accounts that I have read he seems a thoroughly likeable all-round good guy: not quite in the Moss/ Brooks/ Collins league but of that time and era, and able to give a very good account of himself. And, as I say, a nice guy.

[raoul leDuke]

There is a tale of how at Le Mans in 1954, Bira, who had just married for the second time and was also driving for Aston Martin, asked Roy, who was always popular with the ladies, 'Would you mind taking my sister-in-law to bed tonight?' Salvadori replied, 'I'd rather have your wife!' Bira thought for a second before saying 'No, I don't think that's on, Roy. It's my sister-in-law or nothing.'

[David McKinney]

You must have been looking the wrong way at Dundrod, Malcolm
Salvadori raced there in the 1953, 1954 and 1955 Tourist Trophy races, and also the 1953 Ulster Trophy ;)

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by David McKinney
You must have been looking the wrong way at Dundrod, Malcolm
Salvadori raced there in the 1953, 1954 and 1955 Tourist Trophy races, and also the 1953 Ulster Trophy ;)

Of course he did - thank you David. Now you see why I use the Samuel Johnson quote on my posts. I'm miles away from all my books, and at the time was probably looking too hard for Moss. And I was only 9, 10 and 11 at the time, and actually saw only the '54 and '55 races.

[Jeff Bellamy]

I was at Crystal Palace for the Whit Monday meeting in 1961. It was the first time I had been to a race meeting. I was 12 years old and lived a 30 minute bus ride from the circuit. In those days you could let your kids go off for the day without thinking the next time you'd see them would be in a body bag.

Salvadori was racing and won 4 races, including the non championship F1 race. The Dutch GP was going on at the same time and Anthony Marsh gave regular updates on how the Ferraris and Stirling Moss were doing.

Salvadori was the class of the meeting and easily won those 4 races. He wasn't in quite the same league as the other top liners, which probably explains why he was at Crystal Palace and not Holland and by 63 he was out of F1. The 1500cc F1 really wasn't his style. However, he was a good all rounder.

Jeff

[Tim Murray]

According to his autobiography, the reason he was at Crystal Palace and not Zandvoort was because the Parnell team was (as at Monaco) guaranteed only one entry for the Dutch race, and so chose not to risk taking a second car for Roy which might fail to qualify.

[Jeff Bellamy]

The Dutch GP used to restrict the entries at the time as a means of reducing the amount of starting money they had to pay. The previous year they would only accept 15 entries with start money.

Still, Salvadori's day at Crystal Palace was worthwhile.

Regards

Jeff

[Barry Boor]

Not to pour cold custard on things, chaps, but I found the Salvadori autobiography to be rather too full of self-praise. Maybe just my take on it.

I saw him win 4 races at the Palace too. I thought it was 1962; but maybe it was the same meeting that Jeff mentioned.

[Doug Nye]

Barry - the tone of that book was down to the writer (not Roy himself). In my experience he has had a very clear and accurate view of his own place in the pecking order from the time that he realised Moss was on another planet, and that Jack Brabham was going to be quicker than him in the Coopers... Roy was no softie on circuit. Indeed he had a reputation through the early to mid 1950s which led to other drivers giving him a wide berth on circuit. He had a particular on-track feud with Ken Wharton which perhaps was pursued more on Wharton's side than by Roy. I asked the man himself about this a few weeks ago, and Roy remarked how "I would never dream of complaining to the stewards. If another driver dished it out to you, you could always rest content that there's another race in a week's time where you could dish it out to him...". Tall Roy would say this, and think this, with great charm, and elegance, and a steady stare...

He makes no bones of the fact that he was more at home on aerodrome circuits than on public road circuits, he certainly hated the cambered road and perils of Dundrod, and seemed lost at Pescara. But this should be set against the fact that he had been very severely injured in a racing accident early in his career. Generally, however, make no mistake - another warrior.

DCN

[Barry Boor]

Thank you, Doug, point taken.

Perhaps I'll re-read my book with your words in mind.

[Graham Gauld]

Doug is quite correct in his assessment of the book and I remember saying to him that the ghost writer had referred to Roy's parents coming from Italy and settling down in Dovercourt near Harwichwhere his father made ice-cream. They then moved to London where his father was involved in the manufacture of "....alabaster and plaster models........". I once asked him whether these were, perhaps, statuettes of the Virgin Mary or something like that but he laughed andsaid. " Do you remember the fun fairs in the 1950's where you would be given a mis-shapen plaster of Paris rabbit as a prize ? Well that's what he made." Obviously there was good money in it. For those who follow the trail of cars people drove, the Frazer Nash Le Mans Replica in which he had a near-fatal accident at Silverstone has been owned by former 2 litre Chevron sports car driver Andrew Fletcher for about thirty years and he brings it out from time to time.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Not to pour cold custard on things, chaps, but I found the Salvadori autobiography to be rather too full of self-praise. Maybe just my take on it.

I saw him win 4 races at the Palace too. I thought it was 1962; but maybe it was the same meeting that Jeff mentioned.

Was 61,Barry-I was there too He was not eligable for the 5th race (FJ) as he was a graded driver.In 62 he was beaten into second place by Innes Ireland.Strangely the team was split that day as well with Surtees winning at MalloryPark-in that case I believe both circuits could only accomodate 14 cars?

[Barry Boor]

Yes, I was definitely there in '62, too. I just wonder how many races Roy won that day/

IIRC there was a very good result for an Emeryson in that 1962 F.1 race. Or is the old memory failing again?

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Yes, I was definitely there in '62, too. I just wonder how many races Roy won that day/

IIRC there was a very good result for an Emeryson in that 1962 F.1 race. Or is the old memory failing again?

Yep,you have better memory than I had forgotten Emerysons!
XIII Crystal Palace Trophy
1st Innes Ireland-Lotus-BRM 24
2nd Roy Salvadori Lola-Climax Mk4
3rd Bruce McLaren Cooper Climax 55
4th Tony Settember Emeryson Climax

[Jeff Bellamy]

I was there in 62 as well. That was the year that Innes Ireland won in a UDT Lotus BRM 24, and was the last F1 race held at Crystal Palace. The following year a sports car race was the main event and in 64 it was F2 with Jochen Rindt bursting onto the scene.

Regards

Jeff

[jph]

One of the things that sticks in my mind from going to races at Goodwood as a child in the mid 60s was seeing Salvadori drive the Ford GT in the Whitsun trophy race in 1965: my first sight of a Ford GT and, as it turned out, Salvadori's last race before retirement.

I too was disappointed by his autobiography and DCN's clarification of its tone is welcome. I also try not to let my opinion of him be clouded by the fact that a certain senior commentator in the UK takes every opportunity, no matter how tenuous, to compare whatever and whoever he is talking about to some event in Salvadori's career.

[MCS]

Originally posted by jph
I also try not to let my opinion of him be clouded by the fact that a certain senior commentator in the UK takes every opportunity, no matter how tenuous, to compare whatever and whoever he is talking about to some event in Salvadori's career.

On the basis that I simply don't attend race meetings in the UK currently, please pardon my inevitable ignorance on this one, but who might that be?

[Doug Nye]

- yes jph - good call. I know exactly who you mean - and yes, while the sun shines, you are quite right. That hadn't occurred to me before...

DCN

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by David McKinney
You must have been looking the wrong way at Dundrod, Malcolm
Salvadori raced there in the 1953, 1954 and 1955 Tourist Trophy races, and also the 1953 Ulster Trophy ;)

Finished my travels and back home with my books, so just for the record RS raced Aston Martins in all three TTs that David mentions. In the first Dennis Pore crashed the car at Tornagrough (driver not seriously injured); in the second (1954) Roy himself crashed, hitting the stone wall of Leathemstown bridge. He was not, I believe, hurt but the car was too damaged to continue racing. In his third appearance, in 55, he was with Reg Parnell 7th overall and in class. His experiences no doubt gave rise to - or perhaps simply reinforced - the distaste for the circuit that DCN mentions.

Of the Ulster Trophy - which IIRC usually featured single-seaters rather than sports cars - in '53 I have little information other than the mentions in the Moss and Fangio books, and a couple of pictures of Moss in the BRM.

My failure to recall Salvadori at Dundrod is all the more embarrassing becuase in 54 I was at Leathemstown and must have seen the incident and, if the car was left in one of the fields until the race ended, must have pored over the car also. My abiding memory in that regard is of closely examing the - by the standards of the day - extraordinary-looking double-tailfinned Lotus of Colin Chapman which went through the hedge at Leathemstown (corner, not Bridge). I have no idea what broke and caused the detour, but do remember noting the both back wheels were lodged high in the aforementioned tailfins. Of course, that may have been a result of, rather than a cause of, the crash.

My real point in coming back to this now is to note how little response there has been to a thread titled Roy Salvadori. Perhaps this tells us much about his place in the pantheon - or at least the place awarded to him by TNF's cognoscenti.

It will be interesting to see what is made of the Salvadori Celebration at Goodwood in September. Given Salvadori as the author of the famous quote ('Give me Goodwood on a summer's day and you can keep the rest') no doubt they will concentrate on that connection - though Doug's post gives even that icon a wider context.

(I am afraid the final exchange in this thread , above, is completely lost on me - as it was on MCS and possibly others.)

[ReWind]

Here is an interview with Roy Salvadori.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Mal9444
My real point in coming back to this now is to note how little response there has been to a thread titled Roy Salvadori. Perhaps this tells us much about his place in the pantheon - or at least the place awarded to him by TNF's cognoscenti.

I think you need to divide "TNF's cognoscenti" into two. On the one hand are the younger members who will discuss all day whether Senna was better than Prost or even whether Hunt was better than Lauda, but know nothing of Salvadori. And then there are those who were around when Salvadori was racing, know exactly where he fits in and see no reason to state the obvious

[Stephen W]

Roy Salvadori was a very good race driver who competed in virtually every class available.

I first saw him racing in 1959 at Oulton Park when he drove the CT Atkins Cooper Maserati in the Gold Cup when he finished 4th.

At the Aintree 200 meeting the following year I saw him in the Saloon Car race (the Coombs Jaguar 3.8), the Sports Car race (the Coombs Cooper Monaco) and the F2 race (the Atkins Cooper-Climax).

He was a gentleman and a bit of a 'matinee idol' with ladies of a certain age!

He was never in the same league as Moss, Brabham, Gurney or the up-and-coming Clark but he was certainly in the Top Twenty drivers of the early 60s just for his all round capabilities.

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by David McKinney

I think you need to divide "TNF's cognoscenti" into two. On the one hand are the younger members who will discuss all day whether Senna was better than Prost or even whether Hunt was better than Lauda, but know nothing of Salvadori. And then there are those who were around when Salvadori was racing, know exactly where he fits in and see no reason to state the obvious

David. I take your point entirely, while I too know (I hope) exactly where I fit in, which is hanging on to the coat tails of the second group you mention. (I recall from another post in another thread someone saying 'just because you know a historian does not mean you are one': the only motor racing historians I know are you guys.)

Actually, when I started the thread, what I was hoping for was more what editors of a certain persuasion like to call colour about the man. There seem loads of tales about the shennanigans of his immediate contemporaries, fewer about him. Maybe that is becuase Roy is still alive!

Now about these other people you mention, Hunt, Lauda etc. Who they exactly...?;)

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by ReWind
Here is an interview with Roy Salvadori.

Thank you, ReWind. Good stuff

[RS2000]

Originally posted by Mal9444

Actually, when I started the thread, what I was hoping for was more what editors of a certain persuasion like to call colour about the man. There seem loads of tales about the shennanigans of his immediate contemporaries, fewer about him.

Wasn't he unbeaten on the run from the KLG factory to his turn off on the Kingston by-pass despite most of his contemporaries lurking there at one time or another to take him on (including John Cooper who came to grief on the same road)?
He was also, I was told, related by marriage to the local grocer where I was brought up - but I never did know exactly how.

[ReWind]

Originally posted by RS2000
He was also, I was told, related by marriage to the local grocer where I was brought up - but I never did know exactly how.

AFAIK he was/is married to the daughter of John Hindmarsh (1907-1938) and Violette Cordery (1900-1983).

[Doug Nye]

IS! Sue Hindmarsh - dazzling lady - her father John of course co-drove the winning Lagonda at Le Mans in 1935, test pilot for Hawker, lost his life in a Hurricane which crashed onto the golf course at St George's Hill, just across the road from Brooklands and site of the fashionable housing development which became home postwar to the likes of Denny Hulme, Tony Brooks, one or several of The Beatles...etc.

DCN

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
.....or several of The Beatles...etc.

DCN

George Harrison certainly, the rest don't matter.

[RS2000]

Ringo Star has already featured on here as owning a Facel Vega from nearby HWM when at St Georges Hill (and John Lennon lived on the same estate at the time). Bruce McLaren showed better taste (and financial sense?) by living at nearby less ostentatious Burwood Park (albeit the "right side of the tracks" away from we mere mortals in Walton on Thames...).
I really don't know the detail of the claimed link to Roy Salvadori I mentioned - the "by marriage" bit may have been through a brother or sister if he had one?

[Doug Nye]

Brother Ossie I believe...

DCN

[Mal9444]

I'm beginning to enjoy this. Who exactly are the Beatles again? But I do have a pal who owns a Facel Vega - used to have a Maserati 300s as well. Used it as a road car, too.

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by RS2000
Bruce McLaren showed better taste (and financial sense?) by living at nearby less ostentatious Burwood Park (albeit the "right side of the tracks" away from we mere mortals in Walton on Thames...).

Ever careful Denny Hulme got good value from his St George's Hill property, building much of his house there himself.

DCN

[RS2000]

Ultimate irony, given what the original occupants stood for!

http://www.british-c...ary/diggers.htm

but I guess we'd better return to Roy Salvadori...

[roger ellis]

Sadly I'm not sure if Roy is in good enough condition to be contacted about this

Yesterday I posted a request for contact details for Roy Salvadori in the Robert Walshaw thread and was saddened to see this reply. If Roy is unwell I am sure TNF members will join me in sending him our best wishes for a speedy recovery.

[JimBradshaw]

Yesterday I posted a request for contact details for Roy Salvadori in the Robert Walshaw thread and was saddened to see this reply. If Roy is unwell I am sure TNF members will join me in sending him our best wishes for a speedy recovery.

I was brought up Salvo...I saw him race a 2.7 Cooper at Sandown March 1962..still reco..vering from a huge shunt at Warwick Farm

He was DB3S, Jaguar Mk2. Lightweight E Type, Cooper Monaco..and ..what if he had stayed with Cooper in 1959? He was certainlty quicker than the young McLaren and the mercurial Gregory

I put Salvo in the Schell, Behra category ..wrong place ..wrong time.

JB

[Alan Cox]

Roy was 88 on the 12th May. Sadly, the most recent news I heard was that he was not in good health and unlikely to be in a position to be contacted. Perhaps Graham Gauld may have more information, as he was in touch with the Anciens Pilotes at Monaco a couple of weeks ago.

[Graham Gauld]

Roy was 88 on the 12th May. Sadly, the most recent news I heard was that he was not in good health and unlikely to be in a position to be contacted. Perhaps Graham Gauld may have more information, as he was in touch with the Anciens Pilotes at Monaco a couple of weeks ago.

Yes, Susan Salvadori was at the lunch and she explained that Roy, who has been in a nursing home for around a year now, has good days and bad days but is still visited by his froends. However it is unlikely that we will see him out and about at race circuits which is a great pity as Roy is one of motor racings great characters and a driver who was every bit as good as many of the drivers of his period who had factory drives but less of the fire and determination of Roy at his best.

[Eric Dunsdon]

To those of us who were around in the 1950's, Roy Salvadori was 'one of the aces', especially during his period with the Gilby Engineering Maserati's when he was very often the star turn at British race meetings, a dashing figure, looking every inch the racing driver. On reflection, I would say that Roy was what us old racing cyclist's would call 'A Fish And Chipper' as he chose to concentrate his efforts on smaller National race meetings where he would win a number of races in a variety of cars. . Having said that, his forceful and exciting driving always enlivened any meeting that he drove at and many a young enthusiast went home happy to have their programme or autograph book signed by Salvo'. His wonderful drive in the 1956 British Grand Prix in which he at one time held second position in the Gilby 250F still lives in the memory. He had the measure of all but Fangio, Moss and Hawthorn that day. It is interesting to recall what a pool of British driving talent there was around that time. Salvadori, Wharton, Rolt, Macklin, Parnell, Walker, Gerard, Abecassis, Hamilton and Whitehead for instance. Not quite in the Moss, Hawthorn and Collins class perhaps but more than capable of top class performances in single seater and sports-racing cars. more strength in depth there perhaps than the more established motor racing nations of the time.

[JimBradshaw]

A few, long- time wondered questions from the land down under :

What if Salvo had stayed with Cooper in 1959?

What if Salvo's Cooper had not "blown up" in the closing laps of the 1961 US GP?

What if Salvo had been given a "fair go" at theV8 in the Lola team in 1962?

Would love to hear other's opinions

JB

[Sharman]

A lasting memory of Salvo was standing on top of the old garage at the top of Clay Hill when he came past in the Gilby 250F full bore and the throttle jammed open. Clouds of smoke as he braked and switched off followed by a resounding thump as he hit a large tree on the approach to Druids. As we were leaving the circuit at the end of the meeting he was sitting on top of the recovery truck waiting to gather up the remains. He shouted to us "Lousy old "M" type", to which my chuvver, one Ben Arnold (best job in the world, he was a lecturer in Malting And Brewing) replied "It's better than a bent Maserati, and it only cost £40". Happy days of yore.

[kayemod]

Apart from seeing Roy race a few times at Oulton, and possibly Aintree in my youth, most of what I know was told to me by one of his contemporaries, a friend and fellow driver who often accompanied Roy to races, and by all accounts, he was a fearsome, occasionally terrifying driver on the road, though apparently he had very few accidents. I was told that when the two of them stopped for lunch during a journey, Roy would never stop at any establishment with parking at the front. That was in case anyone who had been carved-up by him earlier, spotted the Salvadori conveyance, and came inside to try to sort him out.

[Gabrci]

This great man was 90 yesterday - happy birthday and I hope he is relatively well.

[Nigel Beresford]

My father was working at Aston Martin when they won the sports car championship, and was his mechanic at Bowmaker in 1962.

I'm afraid I can't add to any "colour" stories about Mr. Salvadori because I never heard any, but I have a question.

I understand from postings here and from other conversations that he is unwelll. Does anyone know his general whereabouts? - i.e. is he anywhere near or on the south coast of England. I'm curious because I saw someone who was a dead ringer for him in a wheel chair being pushed along Bournemouth beach front not so long ago. I didn't want to make a fool of myself by introducing myself to this person and then finding I'd got it wrong.

Thanks

Nigel

[kayemod]

Does anyone know his general whereabouts?

Last I heard he lived in Monte Carlo. As we both know Nigel, a large percentage of Bournemouth residents travel around in wheelchairs.

[Nigel Beresford]

Last I heard he lived in Monte Carlo. As we both know Nigel, a large percentage of Bournemouth residents travel around in wheelchairs.

Yes indeed.

I knew he was (or had been) in Monte Carlo, hence my reticence about approaching this person. I figured this was the place to come to find out if it could have been him.

[Giraffe]

I had heard that Roy was most unwell, and IIRC it was DCN who informed me of this, and I think he might have visited him in recent times. If my recollection is correct, Doug might choose to tell us more.

Edited by Giraffe, 13 May 2012 - 09:12.

[Doug Nye]

My last information was that Roy is being cared for in a home in, or near, Monte Carlo. I am not sure whether or not he is diagnostically Altzheimic, but certainly mutual friends have told me his intellect is brutally impaired... Spare a thought for his long-time partner and wife, Sue (nee Hindmarsh, daughter of Le Mans-winning Lagonda driver and Hawker test pilot John Hindmarsh), a very lovely lady.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 13 May 2012 - 09:27.

[David M. Kane]

My last information was that Roy is being cared for in a home in, or near, Monte Carlo. I am not sure whether or not he is diagnostically Altzheimic, but certainly mutual friends have told me his intellect is brutally impaired... Spare a thought for his long-time partner and wife, Sue (nee Hindmarsh, daughter of Le Mans-winning Lagonda driver and Hawker test pilot John Hindmarsh), a very lovely lady.

DCN

Sorry to be so politically incorrect; but I actually said a few prayers for all of them. Roy is a very, very special racer. I can only imagine the strain on his wife.

[Doug Nye]

Sorry to be so politically incorrect; but I actually said a few prayers for all of them. Roy is a very, very special racer. I can only imagine the strain on his wife.

I for one, would consider anyone deeming your action to be incorrect not worth worrying about...

DCN

[raceannouncer2003]

Roy Salvadori's name came up in conversations at Monaco this weekend, and what has been said in this thread about his health, whereabouts, and his wife would seem to be true. Someone said that he lives in a place just above the start-finish line.

Vince H.