27 replies to this topic

[rdmotorsport]

Talking recently with an old friend and ex colleague we somehow crossed the subject of sportscar racing and although he accused me of only having limited knowledge in this form of racing, in fact the term he chose for me was a"dabbler" so I thought my time working in IMSA, running and entering my own Alpine group "B" car obviously counted for zilch,I can only assume unless you have prepared every Chevron from a B8 throughout the ages a dabbler you be.

We did continue our conversation and agreed it was a great for the privateer the little but important men of motorsport, that is it was muted that DeCad himself use to prepare his cars in a lock up garage etc.,I not sure if I can beleive this but it makes for a good story,but names like the late Ian Bracey and Martin Raymond pitted themselves and thier machines against the mighty works teams , all good "Boys own" stuff. I only worked at LeMans once when the new Group"C" arrived but against Stuttgarts finest 956 team the minnows were still there from both sided of the Atlantic,Dorset Racing had a pre owned Alan DeCad Lola which they affectionately name the Morris Minor because it resembled one only slower!,but they had the spirit and well being of an age sadly now gone also somehow all these teams appeared to have a chief mechanic called either Bruce or Allan with beard and long hair perhaps they must have modelled themself on Mike Wilds?

Being only a dabbler in these matters so from Silverstone to LeMans and beyond let me have your thoughts and experience from such happier days of racing.

Rodney Dodson.

[sterling49]

They were really great days with lots of armosphere, I loved the period especially from the B8's onwards and then it just got better with B16's,B19's and the Lola T210/212's etc. I guess some of the teams were quite small, but I watched with great interest as Jo Bonnier prepared his cars in our local plant hire workshops ready for the BOAC, this must have been 1971 or '72, he had the DFV car, cannot remember what type number it was (T280?). What was odd, was seeing this Lola being race checked/lubed up, by his mechanics in our workshop where more humble Escort, Cortinas and A60's were usually serviced! Ecurie Bonnier came Friday afternoon, after it had been arranged via the local Ford Dealer, K.T. (Dartford) Ltd. I rarely did overtime.....in fact I was usually away from work as quickly as my Cortina G.T. would take me, but I stayed and watched in awe that evening. Sadly Jo met with tragedy at the oldest of races, another one from a more adventurous age, had sadly left us.
I have not experienced Le Mans, but the Audi and Peugeot cars of today, do little to inspire me to visit now, perhaps I should still go, just for the experience......but the halcyon days of such varied fields (including Spitfires, B's and Plus 4's) have long since gone, mores the pity.



Sterling

[rdmotorsport]

Cheers Sterling,
I cannot remember a Spitfire at LeMans but your sentiments are what I am looking for.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by rdmotorsport
Cheers Sterling,
I cannot remember a Spitfire at LeMans but your sentiments are what I am looking for.

hmmmn, I may just be burning a few more candles than you !!! The works Spitfires were there in '64...registration number of ADU **B if my memory is at least half functioning!

Wow there must have been a fantastic speed differential on the Mulsanne Straight....I wonder how much it gave away to the Fords of that year?


Sterling

[David McKinney]

And 1965
ADU1B, 2B and 3B both years (but not the same cars), plus 4B the second year

[RTH]

Just look at the variety in the 1964 Le Mans 24 hrs

http://www.teamdan.c...4/64lemans.html


Elite, Elan, Spitfire, Elva Courier, Deep Sanderson, Sprite, MGB, Cobra, Tiger, E-Type, Fiat, Abarth, .........................apart from all the Ferrari Porsche, Alfa, Aston and much else

...........Then look at all the Grand Prix drivers in the race.


Like so much of motor racing today its a pale shadow of what it was 30 or 40 years ago.

The sad thing is, none of it has to be this way.

[Tweddell]

in the 60ies many privateers entered the long distance races on the continent, especially 1000km races at thr Ring and at Targa Florio etc., sometimes beating the works entered cars. if you see the variety of makes in the lists, you might imagine the colourfull picture you had as spectator. the drivers were local matadors mixed up with sportscar works-drivers and of course lots of grand prix drivers.
you can´t really compare with the boring grids today.
sometimes actual motorsport scene seems to be fun for mostly rather simple minded spectators.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by RTH
Just look at the variety in the 1964 Le Mans 24 hrs

http://www.teamdan.c...4/64lemans.html


Elite, Elan, Spitfire, Elva Courier, Deep Sanderson, Sprite, MGB, Cobra, Tiger, E-Type, Fiat, Abarth, .........................apart from all the Ferrari Porsche, Alfa, Aston and much else

...........Then look at all the Grand Prix drivers in the race.


Like so much of motor racing today its a pale shadow of what it was 30 or 40 years ago.

The sad thing is, none of it has to be this way.

Great link, thanks Richard, I noticed even an Iso Rivolta in the entry and the Lightweight "E" Types of Peter's Lindner,Nocker,Lumsden and Sargent.

Then there are the minute CD Panhards and Rene Bonnet that used to vie for the (memory please!) Index of Thermal Efficiency or suchlike. If a race was run today with an entry as varied as this one and with the good and the great entered as well as all the assembled countries best "aspiring and club" drivers.......I would be there..........and not a diesel in sight ;)


Sterling

[rdmotorsport]

Thank you for the education and such a good link.
I also would like to add Thundersports as previously mentioned on other previous threads I felt this series did for a while continue in the same vein inasmuch Dave Purley driving a Mallock (I think, anyway a Clubmans car) and although I was at a meeting at Thruxton someone muted a brace of MGA s were on the entry list I am sure they never raced otherwise the Foulston Can Am would have deviured them!
Anymore stories of the British teams?

[RTH]

Just when we all thought it could not possibly get any worse .
Have you seen the FIA proposals for Grand Prix racing from 2011 ?

2.2 litre V6 turbo diesels limited to 10,000 RPM running on biodiesel grown from crops

Mantatory 4 wheel drive and traction control..........and all cars to run identical bodywork !

.......And no I am not making it up ! Its been in several magazines this weeK !

[sterling49]

Originally posted by RTH
Just when we all thought it could not possibly get any worse .
Have you seen the FIA proposals for Grand Prix racing from 2011 ?

2.2 litre V6 turbo diesels limited to 10,000 RPM running on biodiesel grown from crops

Mantatory 4 wheel drive and traction control..........and all cars to run identical bodywork !

:yawn: :yawn: :yawn:

[rdmotorsport]

wonderful !

[Frank S]

Perhaps I'm misreading the question.

Try this for 1950s-60s attitude from
one small-guy racer of small-displacement
sports cars in Southern California.

[Bjorn Kjer]

2011 , thats future talk ,why not make it by remote control from home right away ,
or as virtual reality , no polution! Nothing against you RTH!

To come back to the main road here , I cannot give you any live experiences , but only my own through mainly magazines and mainly Autosport : Overall , dshall we say 1960 - 1970 + , there were some big works teams , many small works teams , many big teams and a whole lot of private teams or privateers. There were a lot more races here and there , apart from the WC some small series ,but astonishingly so many races that all those teams couldnt do them all. These races were so varying with drivers and cars that its was a joy to read about. But still so many turned up so often that you could easily make a statistical championship a la the F1WC or the like . Apart from looking at LeMans , the other WC races also used to have exciting or interesting entries , especially the Nurburgring 1000 kms. In those days it was not done for sponsor , more for pleasure , joy and fun , as well as the competition. But often some teams were not as competitive as some of the others , yet they turned up again and again! It is a wonderfull period and there is much to be found and written and told still! I will name one ,Mark Konig who entered and raced his own "works" car the Nomad. I believe he also sold a couple ! Do a thread on him if is not allready done (I have not checked!) , and Sid Taylor Racing , a man so well known on both sides of the water , and he nearly never really had a "team" !

[Bloggsworth]

Bring back riding mechanics I say.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
[B I will name one ,Mark Konig who entered and raced his own "works" car the Nomad. I believe he also sold a couple ! Do a thread on him if is not allready done (I have not checked!) , and Sid Taylor Racing , a man so well known on both sides of the water , and he nearly never really had a "team" ! [/B]

I watched Mark race very often, and Gabriel ( cannot remember if she was his wife or sister) but they were seen often at Brands and Mark, as you correctly stated, used to tour with his Nomad cars (B.R.M. engine?)........oh for those days, adventure, camaraderie, high jinx, and competition.

Sid Taylors cars were always superbly turned out, from the BT8 (have I got that correct, my memory!!) to the T70's, driven of course by Denny, Brian Redman and others that I forget now, sadly too easily.

I also used to read of the races abroad Bjorn, usually in MN or MotorSport, my favourites were the Targa Florio and the 1000KM 'Ring.

Happy Days.


Sterling

[rdmotorsport]

Dear Bjorn,

Sid Taylor would travel the world to enter his car but Sid always made money out of this and also was very prudent in hiring his crew, people like Ron Bennett,Julian Randells come to mind but he was still a great privateer,I worked for Sid later in his F1 days but always felt then he had lost the real fun and desire for the sport and became a very succesful businessman.

[Sharman]

Let the buggers propose all they want to, maybe we can sneak in under cover and get OUR sport back!!!

[rdmotorsport]

Dear Sharman,

I am with you but any suggestions how?

[jph]

Sports car racing still retains several of the more attractive elements that have been lost from all forms of contemporary single seater racing. Just look at this year's Le Mans entry - OK, the winner will almost certainly come from one oftwo manufacturer teams, but what's new about that? Privateer, or at least non-professional entries abound - Chamberlain, Rollcentre, Bruneau, Scuderia Ecosse, Binnie, del Bello etc etc. Plus the technical variety: diesel or petrol, turbo or normally aspirated, closed or open, purpose-built engine or stock-block. You can even tell the cars apart without having to rely on their colour schemes. Finally, a healthy mixture of professional and amateur drivers. In essence, many of the factors that made so many forms of racing up to, say, the late 70s so fascinating, still exist in series such as ALMS and LMES.

Little wonder the FIA and BCE try repeatedly to stifle it.

[rdmotorsport]

Do you really feel the FIA and Bernie stifle sportscars I would have felt more than they were more focussed and intent on other formulaes i.e. F1?

To go back to the origional thread what tales of the privateers have you?

[Terry Walker]

Sports car privateer, 1966. John Raeburn, an Aussie with a GT40, and his entire crew. John is at right rear. Left fron it Dave Sullivan, a qualified mechanic who went on a working holiday to UK and finished up gypsying around Europe as a race mechanic while rabeurn tackled the various 1000 km races.



No doubt someone can identify this equipe, spotted by Dave Sullivan - and maybe even where?

[rdmotorsport]

good stuff,anymore?

[Tweddell]

http://img530.images...a1000km1tu0.jpg


http://img513.images...00km1967ey4.jpg





this was the last ever seen race cobra at old nurburgring 1000km race 1968, but was not raced that year.
but this car competed a year before in the 1000km 1967 (see picture link above) with nicholas granville smith and christopher lawrence.
the pic taken by dave sullivan must be at the rhine river, location Lorelei, perhaps coming from the ring an going southwards to italy, i think mugello race was only some weekends later .
so here stopping to drink some nice wines.
look at borgward isabella estate towing car.

wasn´t that much more nicer than todays ridiculous super trucks and mobile-homes for a 25 minutes 10lap race on mostly micky mouse tracks.

i remember well priveteers driving all across europe even down to portugal with very small equipment and funny towing cars, for example mark konig and his nomad on a single-axled trailer , towed by ford anglia , even over the alpes..., and how many priveteers drove their racers to the tracks, only with tool-box and a further set of wheels on the pessengers side.
it would be nice to meet more tow-bar equipped humber hawk , ford zephyr, vauxhall cresta and rover in the paddocks today, no entry allowed for all the boring showy stuff .

[rdmotorsport]

Thanks ,more of the same please plus any details on the Ibec team ,Dorset Racing etc.?

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Tweddell

this was the last ever seen race cobra at old nurburgring 1000km race 1968, but was not raced that year.

Granville-Smith's car practised for (but did not start in) the 1969 1000km

[Alan Cox]

See pic of the car from the 1969 meeting on this link

http://perso.orange....s...sson E.htm

[rdmotorsport]