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What about Stefano Modena?


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#101 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:33

Hello Andy

 

I think that is a misinterpretation or misremembered, TBH. There was no reason for the new transmission to change anything in the ergonomics of the car. I can't remember how much Michele drove the car before Brazil, if at all. I do remember a shakedown at the Ford test track in Essex but that was probably with JP. Those cars were stupidly tight in the cockpit and I suspect it was just a case that we got the seating position wrong, and it didn't come to light until he drove the car for an extended period in Brazil. When doing seat fits it is very often elbow clearance that needs enhancement once the driver has actually driven the car for the first time. You have to satisfy two somewhat conflicting requirements simultaneously. The driver needs the side of the seat to come up reasonably high to provide lateral support, but then he needs clearance for his arms to sweep back and forwards along the side of his chest as he steers. This is more of a problem these days with modern resin matrix foam bead seats because they tend to need a bit of thickness in that area to give them stiffness and resilience. It's not insurmountable, it's just a bit of an iterative process to get adequate clearance. 

 

Thanks, Nigel



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#102 Blue6ix

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:54

No, that was done during 1988. The original 017 design had a ridiculous front pullrod arrangement that had the pullrods pulling practically co-axially on the rockers, so there was hardly any damper movement. The whole lot was mounted on the front of the tub. It was a disaster so during the 1988 season the pushrods were bodged on to the tub, with belleville springs providing the springing.  It was all a nightmare that I don't care to remember. Their presence on the 017B was just a carryover from the previous season.

 

I don't mind answering these questions but it is drifting away from the Stefano Modena topic. That doesn't bother me, personally speaking. I have nothing new to add about Stefano really, although one really good thing he did when he joined the team was to cook everyone a pasta meal in the garage at one of the early tests soon after he joined us. No other driver has ever done that. It was extremely good too!

 

Could it have been around of 1990 season and possibly those September 1990 Monza Tyre Tests with Goodyear and Pirelli?

 

Because during that time it was said that Signor Modena could have been lent for Tyrrell from Brabham when the season was nearing it's end and for keeping an eye for the 1991 season.

 

If I'm not mistaken, did he also compete the seat with test driver Volker Weidler during that time?

 

Herr Weidler had some tests for team driver seat in the years of 1990-1992 if I'm not mistaken with that thing. 



#103 funformula

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:51

Hello Nigel,

 

what always puzzeled me was why Michele Alboreto left Tyrrell in mid 1989 as he had already achieved podium and points finishes that year.

IIRC I heard that there was some issue about him being a "Marlboro-Man" which might´ve caused some conflict with the appearance of Camel sponsoring Tyrrell.

But he left Tyrrell only to return two races later in the Larrousse-Lamborghini...which was Camel sponsored.

So there may be another reason for his decision?

 

Best regards

Harald



#104 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 12:42

Could it have been around of 1990 season and possibly those September 1990 Monza Tyre Tests with Goodyear and Pirelli?

 

Because during that time it was said that Signor Modena could have been lent for Tyrrell from Brabham when the season was nearing it's end and for keeping an eye for the 1991 season.

 

If I'm not mistaken, did he also compete the seat with test driver Volker Weidler during that time?

 

Herr Weidler had some tests for team driver seat in the years of 1990-1992 if I'm not mistaken with that thing. 

 

No, Stefano never drove a Tyrrell before he shook down the first 020 on the short South Circuit at Silverstone about a week before Christmas in 1990. The car's first serious running was  at the Pirelli tyre test in Kyalami in early 1991. That test nearly never happened because the first Gulf War had just kicked off and Honda banned their personnel worldwide from flying over African airspace. Somehow a dispensation was granted for the people supporting our test but it was touch and go at the time.

 

The first time I met him was when he came to the motorhome in, I think, Monza, at the race soon after his deal with Tyrrell was announced or publicised.

 

I have no idea if Volker Weidler ever tested a Tyrrell - he certainly didn't before I left in December 1991. The only time I have ever crossed paths with him was when he spent time at the Ralt factory in New Haw in early 1986, building his own Formula 3000 RT20.



#105 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 12:58

Hello Nigel,

 

what always puzzeled me was why Michele Alboreto left Tyrrell in mid 1989 as he had already achieved podium and points finishes that year.

IIRC I heard that there was some issue about him being a "Marlboro-Man" which might´ve caused some conflict with the appearance of Camel sponsoring Tyrrell.

But he left Tyrrell only to return two races later in the Larrousse-Lamborghini...which was Camel sponsored.

So there may be another reason for his decision?

 

Best regards

Harald

 

Hi Harald

 

I can't add anything beyond what has been in the press or mentioned before by other on TNF. As I have said before, the first I knew of the driver change was when I wandered out into the factory and saw this young guy with shocking blue eyes sitting in an 018 on the setup pad. A few days earlier Bob Tyrrell had wandered in to the drawing office looking for the latest Autosport, which had an F3000 race report in it. He was obviously trying to find out what he could about this Alesi bloke. Knowing Bob he would never have heard of him before.

 

I can only assume Michele split from Tyrrell and not the other way around. He had a lot of class and dignity. and he was highly regarded and liked at Ockham by the veterans because of his time spent there previously (before my time). Things seemed genial and pleasant on the surface in 1989.  After the Monaco race we decamped to Ricard for a test, and in the evening Harvey, Michele and I had dinner at Madame Berard's hostelry in La Cadière, the place where the Ferrari team usually stayed, looking out over the valley.  Typically Harvey always knew some fantastic places to go and eat wherever we were, so it was a wonderful meal and evening and no hint of any disgruntlement. Anyway, I don't imagine it was Tyrrell's choice to change drivers for a relatively unproven rookie mid season. Soon after the divorce Harvey mentioned Michele in an unflattering remark, so obviously things had been unpleasant in private during the divorce.

 

Thanks, Nigel



#106 Blue6ix

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 14:02

No, Stefano never drove a Tyrrell before he shook down the first 020 on the short South Circuit at Silverstone about a week before Christmas in 1990. The car's first serious running was  at the Pirelli tyre test in Kyalami in early 1991. That test nearly never happened because the first Gulf War had just kicked off and Honda banned their personnel worldwide from flying over African airspace. Somehow a dispensation was granted for the people supporting our test but it was touch and go at the time.

 

The first time I met him was when he came to the motorhome in, I think, Monza, at the race soon after his deal with Tyrrell was announced or publicised.

 

I have no idea if Volker Weidler ever tested a Tyrrell - he certainly didn't before I left in December 1991. The only time I have ever crossed paths with him was when he spent time at the Ralt factory in New Haw in early 1986, building his own Formula 3000 RT20.

 

How about this piece of information about Signor Modena driving for Tyrrell?

 

At least assuming that he did unless even this piece of information has been wrong about it?

 

It's here even though I remembered it wrong thinking about September when it was or supposed to be in October 1990, track was also Estoril rather than Monza and Signor Modena seems to be driving also for three days rather than one:

 

http://www.dlg.speed...0/octobe90.html


Edited by Blue6ix, 12 February 2019 - 14:25.


#107 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 15:43

I apologise

You are right

I have absolutely zero recollection of this event, though I was probably there. 

 

Wow

 

The only way I know it is true is that I found some old Aeromap setup files referencing it.

 

Looks like Alesi also drove on 4th October.

 

The first time Modena drove the 020 was in mid December like I said. Then we tested at Jerez in early January before going to Kyalami. 

 

 

Thanks, Nigel


Edited by Nigel Beresford, 12 February 2019 - 16:05.


#108 funformula

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 18:42

Here a picture of Modena testing the Tyrrell at Kyalami, still in pre-season livery without Braun sponsor logos.

https://hiveminer.co...one/Interesting

 

BTW when was the Braun livery presented to the public?

Wasn´t the deal already sealed a year before (with assistance from Ron Dennis) or did I mix up something here?


Edited by funformula, 12 February 2019 - 18:46.


#109 ellrosso

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 18:51

Thanks again for sharing Nigel. Fantastic to be getting all this "insider" information.



#110 TennisUK

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 19:45

Here a picture of Modena testing the Tyrrell at Kyalami, still in pre-season livery without Braun sponsor logos.

https://hiveminer.co...one/Interesting

 

BTW when was the Braun livery presented to the public?

Wasn´t the deal already sealed a year before (with assistance from Ron Dennis) or did I mix up something here?

They had some sort of arrangement with Mclaren so they could use Mclaren's marketing team to source sponsors, but I can't recall when the tie up was announced.



#111 airbox

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 19:48

An interview that Alboreto gave in 1992 with Joe Saward sheds a bit more light on why he left Tyrrell and why he was able to drive for Larrousse (with Camel backing) a couple of races later in the 1989 season:

http://www.grandprix...-alboreto.html 


Edited by airbox, 12 February 2019 - 19:49.


#112 paulstevens56

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 21:12

Interesting that Michele in there points out that Ken said he had to change to Camel, either than or he had already tied up Alesi lol!



#113 stuartbrs

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 06:33

I`m  really enjoying your responses and insights Nigel. Thankyou! 



#114 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 18:56

They had some sort of arrangement with Mclaren so they could use Mclaren's marketing team to source sponsors, but I can't recall when the tie up was announced.

 

I don't think it was ever announced. It was a commercial arrangement that wasn't anyone else's business. McLaren marketing had more sponsors knocking on the door than they could put on the McLaren car. In my time at Penske it was apparent that Marlboro hated anything other than their branding on the car, so it is reasonable to assume the same thinking applied in F1. McLaren guaranteed that they would find sponsorship up to a certain value for Tyrrell before taking any commission. As I have said before, Ron Dennis himself came to Ockham to supervise and participate in applying the sponsorship logos. I always thought the Braun liveried car looked great - shame it didn't match it in performance.



#115 funformula

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 19:44

Here is a picture of a Tyrrell 018 which I would´ve thought is photoshopped if not Nigel had confirmed it´s true.

Design also under supervision from Ron Dennis IIRC.

 

https://i.redd.it/n6yi921bowkx.jpg


Edited by funformula, 13 February 2019 - 19:49.


#116 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 19:48

Yeah, that's real. Looked absolutely gorgeous. Photos were strictly forbidden, he he.

 

People on that thread saying that there was some sort of deal with Rothmans that fell through. Hey, write it on an  internet thread and it becomes "true". Nope... my understanding was that this was more of a sprat to catch a mackerel.


Edited by Nigel Beresford, 13 February 2019 - 19:57.


#117 funformula

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 16:00

Because I don´t want to hitchhike this thread any longer and getting even further off opic, I decided to start a new thread "Tyrrell tales and other inside storys".

I hope Nigel Beresford is still willing to share more of his brilliant inside storys.  :up:



#118 Nemo1965

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 18:57

I would also like to thank Nigel. He has been so friendly (in the past) to answer me some very detailed questions about the 1991 F1-cars in PM's, and I am happy he has taken the time to write for all to read so extensively about the same subject. 

 

Very childish but perhaps of interest: for the last six years or so I have been more or less obsessed by the historic F1 1991 mod for rRfactor. Some wonderful people (unpaid) has made this the best F1-mod for an open source racing-game ever. The makers have tried to simulalte as exactly as possible ALL the cars of the 1991 F1-season .

 

The connection with this thread: two cars in that mod are just impossible for me to drive anywhere competitively against the AI: the Jordan and... the Tyrrel...I just can never get the damned rideheight right with both cars because of that mono-shock damper which should actually HELP the ride-height setting.