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Not good for Champ Car
Started by
Jodum5
, Jun 05 2007 13:59
8 replies to this topic
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#2
4Wheeldrift
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Posted 05 June 2007 - 18:54
Interesting. Champ Car isn't regulated by the FIA .. so they can't actually say no.
Obviously they can apply pressure and with F1 being so much bigger and prestigious than champ car any duel promotor (or possibly local government in the case of China) might accede for fear of losing their F1 race.
I have to say i think Champ car is following a strange path in trying to go outside of North America again. It over-reached itself in the mid-90s when it was a financially much stronger than it is now. I think it should stabilise back home first so that something like this wouldn't be as important.
Obviously they can apply pressure and with F1 being so much bigger and prestigious than champ car any duel promotor (or possibly local government in the case of China) might accede for fear of losing their F1 race.
I have to say i think Champ car is following a strange path in trying to go outside of North America again. It over-reached itself in the mid-90s when it was a financially much stronger than it is now. I think it should stabilise back home first so that something like this wouldn't be as important.
#3
aportinga
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Posted 05 June 2007 - 21:07
ChampCar is not going to make it in the States alone. There is too much against them both directly as well as indirectly starting with opposition from ISC tracks and NASCAR to the IRL adding more street races and road races stealing the uniquness of what CART/Now ChampCar is.
Now BE is even talking about street races (Paris)... Why go to ChampCar for Street & Road races internationally when you can have F1 with Monaco and Paris, Monza & Spa? Plus the ROI for F1 has gotta be far better.
Why go to ChampCar for road circuits and street races in the States when you can go to the IRL and have the Indy500 as well?
The difference being however is that it will be far more difficult (IMO) for BE to change step against ChampCar in Europe then it will be for Tony George to make the series pointless in the States. F1 is moving into the Far and Middle East these days where there is LOTS more cash! BE is not going to give up those opportunities. We've already seen how he treats even the most sacred venues and have heard his ideas on the German races and French and British... Unless the teams agree to add more races he'll have to drop a handful in order to fill the cash cow with monies from the Far and Middle East.
And hey - ChampCar is crap - waste of time, or at least that is what a good deal of people think so perhaps this is a good time to bring in Stoddart with the Minardi name. A few Dutch/European drivers to stir interest.
Crap or not the DP01 as well as the former Lola is an awesome site and sound on any natural race circuit. I think it will do just fine and I think despite the lack of glitz and glamour - names and celebs, that ChampCar won't provide, purists with some honest to god good racing and definately at a lesser cost then F1.
Will it be F1? No. Is it trying to be F1? No. But can it pick up some of the scraps left behind and put on a decent show. You bet.
All I know for sure is it's not working in the States that well.
Now BE is even talking about street races (Paris)... Why go to ChampCar for Street & Road races internationally when you can have F1 with Monaco and Paris, Monza & Spa? Plus the ROI for F1 has gotta be far better.
Why go to ChampCar for road circuits and street races in the States when you can go to the IRL and have the Indy500 as well?
The difference being however is that it will be far more difficult (IMO) for BE to change step against ChampCar in Europe then it will be for Tony George to make the series pointless in the States. F1 is moving into the Far and Middle East these days where there is LOTS more cash! BE is not going to give up those opportunities. We've already seen how he treats even the most sacred venues and have heard his ideas on the German races and French and British... Unless the teams agree to add more races he'll have to drop a handful in order to fill the cash cow with monies from the Far and Middle East.
And hey - ChampCar is crap - waste of time, or at least that is what a good deal of people think so perhaps this is a good time to bring in Stoddart with the Minardi name. A few Dutch/European drivers to stir interest.
Crap or not the DP01 as well as the former Lola is an awesome site and sound on any natural race circuit. I think it will do just fine and I think despite the lack of glitz and glamour - names and celebs, that ChampCar won't provide, purists with some honest to god good racing and definately at a lesser cost then F1.
Will it be F1? No. Is it trying to be F1? No. But can it pick up some of the scraps left behind and put on a decent show. You bet.
All I know for sure is it's not working in the States that well.
#5
aportinga
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Posted 05 June 2007 - 22:43
Right on...
To add, there was some speculation that the FIA made threats to coerce sponsorship deals which CART had in place during the first round in Europe. Additionally there were even suggestions that the FIA had it in them to push off Goodyear away from CART along with an engine manufacture who was knocking on the F1 door - possibly Toyota.
I cannot prove any of this but I do (nonetheless) believe that F1 is just as much of a cash cow to BE as it is to MM and the FIA in general. Hence I believe they would go to great lengths to protect that investment (F1).
Would not be surprised at all if while F1 moves to the Far and Middle East that you see changes in GP2/Renault that move those series to compete in the same market which ChampCar is going after in an effort to make them less relevant in Europe as the IRL is attempting to make them in the States.
To add, there was some speculation that the FIA made threats to coerce sponsorship deals which CART had in place during the first round in Europe. Additionally there were even suggestions that the FIA had it in them to push off Goodyear away from CART along with an engine manufacture who was knocking on the F1 door - possibly Toyota.
I cannot prove any of this but I do (nonetheless) believe that F1 is just as much of a cash cow to BE as it is to MM and the FIA in general. Hence I believe they would go to great lengths to protect that investment (F1).
Would not be surprised at all if while F1 moves to the Far and Middle East that you see changes in GP2/Renault that move those series to compete in the same market which ChampCar is going after in an effort to make them less relevant in Europe as the IRL is attempting to make them in the States.
#6
4Wheeldrift
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Posted 06 June 2007 - 00:07
Originally posted by benn5325
ACCUS
"Liaison between the ACCUS member clubs, other National Sporting Authorities and with the FIA "
It is a liason channel. However i doubt that ChampCar is bound by an FIA ruling?
I understand that Champcar is struggling in the US, but it can't fight F1 - so it is always going to struggle in cases like this which is why i think it needs to sort itself out in the US first. Lets face it, $10m should not be a lot of money, but to Champcar it is at the moment.
It's other option is to head to markets that F1 has not been to, such as Taiwan, and open them up Ecclestone stylee. True they might not get as much government backing as an F1 venue, but then Champcar doesn't need a Shanghai. It could make do with a another Rockingham (which interestingly it deserted after only a few races).
#7
917k
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Posted 06 June 2007 - 01:47
As always with CC, it is a big conspiracy to keep it down, to prevent the rest of the world from seeing it's goodness. 
The CC and CART group has been in court so many times, for so many reasons, its laughable they still have their apologists.
If you read the whole story, CC knew about the race date change and yet perpetuated the lie that the race was still on as scheduled, months after they knew it wasn't going ahead. Robin Miller reported this very thing about 2 months ago, yet CC maintained the race was a go.
Like I said, amazing there is still are apologists for the shysters that run CC these days.
The CC and CART group has been in court so many times, for so many reasons, its laughable they still have their apologists.
If you read the whole story, CC knew about the race date change and yet perpetuated the lie that the race was still on as scheduled, months after they knew it wasn't going ahead. Robin Miller reported this very thing about 2 months ago, yet CC maintained the race was a go.
Like I said, amazing there is still are apologists for the shysters that run CC these days.
#8
aportinga
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Posted 06 June 2007 - 04:12
Originally posted by 4Wheeldrift
"Liaison between the ACCUS member clubs, other National Sporting Authorities and with the FIA "
It is a liason channel. However i doubt that ChampCar is bound by an FIA ruling?
I understand that Champcar is struggling in the US, but it can't fight F1 - so it is always going to struggle in cases like this which is why i think it needs to sort itself out in the US first..
Check out my last post in the Indy500 thread. ChampCar - or CART has been trying to sort itself out since the franchise structure was initiated - even before the split. That's at least 15 years.
It (and the IRL for that matter) have as much chance of becoming a success in the States as F1 does.
#9
aportinga
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Posted 06 June 2007 - 04:14
Originally posted by 917k
As always with CC, it is a big conspiracy to keep it down, to prevent the rest of the world from seeing it's goodness.
The CC and CART group has been in court so many times, for so many reasons, its laughable they still have their apologists.
If you read the whole story, CC knew about the race date change and yet perpetuated the lie that the race was still on as scheduled, months after they knew it wasn't going ahead. Robin Miller reported this very thing about 2 months ago, yet CC maintained the race was a go.
Like I said, amazing there is still are apologists for the shysters that run CC these days.
You may be right. But you should leave your personal bullshit about the fans out of it. No one has insulted you or IRL fans in this thread.
