118 replies to this topic

[fastlegs]

So far this season McLaren has achieved a perfect mechanical record. However, that wasn't the case last year.

Should they return to last year's form it will certainly make things a lot more interesting for the championship race.

I'm not saying that will happen. Right now it looks like they won't be caught by Ferrari, however, a few DNF's and it becomes a whole new ball game.

Of course for this scenario to play out Ferrari would have to maintain a perfect mechanical record.

2006 McLaren Reliability Results

Australian Grand Prix - JPM - DNF - mechanical
European Grand Prix - JPM - DNF - mechanical
Spanish Grand Prix ---- JPM - DNF - mechanical
Monaco Grand Prix ----- KR - DNF - mechanical
German Grand Prix --- PDR - DNF - mechanical
Italian Grand Prix ----- PDR - DNF - mechanical
Chinese Grand Prix ----- KR - DNF - mechanical

Note:
Malaysian Grand Prix - KR - DNF - mechanical caused by contact

[sejanus]

poor kimi. the guy leaves to find reliability, just when mclaren get it together.

[hello86]

I think the reason for their reliability is that Mika testet for them at the end of th season.

But sooner or later they will have their DNF. (at least I hope so)

[gerry nassar]

2004 and 2005 were even worse!

Its tough to see Kimi move just as Mclaren gains both speed and reliability but thats the way the cookie crumbles.

I just dont see the Mclaren becoming unreliable - especially with most cars these days lasting the distance. With the speed the Mac has - there is no need to push the limit and Im now thinking it may be possible that they have no mechanical DNF's at all this year

[PassWind]

Is it the exit of Adrian maybe and a different way of accounting for the mechanical aspects of the machine?

Red Bull are certainly not that reliable although when have they been in both the new and old Jaguar guise.

[jcbc3]

Kimi is a car breaker.


someone had to say it.

[Racer Joe]

Originally posted by jcbc3
Kimi is a car breaker.


someone had to say it.

LOL.

[femi]

Originally posted by PassWind
Is it the exit of Adrian maybe and a different way of accounting for the mechanical aspects of the machine?

Red Bull are certainly not that reliable although when have they been in both the new and old Jaguar guise.

I think it is improved engineering and much improved quality, change and release management. If you get all these right, you will produce a very good product which is what the MP-22 is. It also helps to have the resources which Mclaren has and unless the competition pushes Mclaren, they will maintain it because they will be under no pressure to take risks.

Ferrari if they should be beaten at Indy will have to take risks to close the gap which will in turn negatively impact on their release management which will certainly yield to instability and unreliability. If this should sound familiar, it was the situation that Mclaren were when they introduced the MP-18 and we see how long it took them to recover.
I am not saying Ferrari are in this situation yet but they should be careful.

I will suggest that if Ferrari should lose at Indy, they should give up on this year, focus on next year so that they can produce a competitive and reliable product otherwise they might be fighting Renault, BMW and Honda for 2nd next year as well....

[gerry nassar]

Originally posted by femi


I will suggest that if Ferrari should lose at Indy, they should give up on this year, focus on next year so that they can produce a competitive and reliable product otherwise they might be fighting Renault, BMW and Honda for 2nd next year as well....

Perhaps not after Indy - but definitely if this continues through Britain and France - then they should focus on the 08 car - especially with the different regs.

That is pretty much what Mclaren did last year - hence why it appears they are strong one year (01,03,05,07 and off the next (02,04.06...);)

[jokuvaan]

Engine was main problem before but now when its freezed things look much better.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by jokuvaan
Engine was main problem before but now when its freezed things look much better.

No it wasnt.

[Hyatt]

Originally posted by jokuvaan
Engine was main problem before but now when its freezed things look much better.

there werent so many engine probs for McLaren in '06. Could well be that Ferrari had more ...
Maybe the freeze fixed it for Mercedes, but thats only one possibility. Merc had to restructure their engine-department after Illien left (and took some key staff with him). Merc than hired some guys from Cosworth as well.

[kar]

Originally posted by Clatter


No it wasnt.

Checkout the replays at Hungary De la Rosa vs Schumacher .... the McLaren got better traction out of the final corner + a slip stream and still didn't have the top end grunt to overtake.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by kar


Checkout the replays at Hungary De la Rosa vs Schumacher .... the McLaren got better traction out of the final corner + a slip stream and still didn't have the top end grunt to overtake.

Whats that got to do with reliability??

Regardless, the ability to slipstream and overtake has as much to do with aero as it does with engine power. Ferrari have often set their cars up with less downforce, this will lose time in the twisty bits, but will gain on the straights. Its one of the compromises teams have to make, and means that speed is in no way an indication of engine power.

[Hyatt]

*LOL* that kar-guy ...

it was a wet and MS was sitting on the only dry line ...

[MattFoster]

I doubt the wheels are going to fall off any time soon

[MikeTekRacing]

Originally posted by Hyatt
*LOL* that kar-guy ...

it was a wet and MS was sitting on the only dry line ...

no it was actually very dry, that's why ms had tyre trouble
the reason was aero-related, not engine though

[Owen]

Originally posted by Hyatt


there werent so many engine probs for McLaren in '06. Could well be that Ferrari had more ...
Maybe the freeze fixed it for Mercedes, but thats only one possibility. Merc had to restructure their engine-department after Illien left (and took some key staff with him). Merc than hired some guys from Cosworth as well.

Agreed. Most people forget the 2006 Mclaren was very reliable and the 2007 Mclaren is even better thus far.

[kar]

Originally posted by Clatter


Whats that got to do with reliability??

Regardless, the ability to slipstream and overtake has as much to do with aero as it does with engine power. Ferrari have often set their cars up with less downforce, this will lose time in the twisty bits, but will gain on the straights. Its one of the compromises teams have to make, and means that speed is in no way an indication of engine power.

I should have quoted the post I was replying too

which was

Originally posted by jokuvaan
Engine was main problem before but now when its freezed things look much better.

Which you then one-lined 'No it wasnt.'.

I was explaining that yeah, it was. Schmacher with toasted tyres and no traction still had far more top end grunt than the merc in a straight line, despite dela rosa having the monster of all tows.

What the merc has this year - it seems - is very good tractability out of the corner and good low-mid range torque. Indy will tell us about the top end capacity I think.

[Atreiu]

I don't understand your reasoning, how can it be a mechnical/reliability problem when the drivers spin/crash out? Montoya simply spun out at Australia and Spain.

Mclaren's problems as I remember were:

- Kimi's suspension failure during qualifying at Bahrain;
- Montoya's DNF Nurburgring;
- Kimi's DNF at Monaco;
- de La Rosa's DNF at Hockenheim;
- de La Rosa's DNF at Monza; and then
- Kimi's gearbox failure at China.


All in all, it wasn't a terrible record, compared to years as 2005 or 2004 or 2002. Kimi scored well whenever he finished. The car just lacked speed to threat Renault and then Ferrari.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by kar


I should have quoted the post I was replying too

which was


Which you then one-lined 'No it wasnt.'.

I was explaining that yeah, it was. Schmacher with toasted tyres and no traction still had far more top end grunt than the merc in a straight line, despite dela rosa having the monster of all tows.

What the merc has this year - it seems - is very good tractability out of the corner and good low-mid range torque. Indy will tell us about the top end capacity I think.

Wel discounting that I believe your wrong in the way you are trying to compare engine power. This thread is about reliability, so my reply is in relation to that. The Merc engine has not been the problem reliability wise.

[vsubravet]

Originally posted by Owen


Agreed. Most people forget the 2006 Mclaren was very reliable and the 2007 Mclaren is even better thus far.

That is correct. One does wonder if it is the absence of AN and his over-the-top designs with very tight packaging of the cars, that has led to the improved reliabilty record of the Macs? I've written it a few times before but it is worth pointing out that the loss of key Technical personnel over the 2005-2006 season hasn't hurt the team in the least bit. The team must have excellent depth in the technical department. Good for them.
Having said that all I'm pleasantly surprised by the team's reliability record and performances this year.

[skonks]

Originally posted by fastlegs
So far this season McLaren has achieved a perfect mechanical record. However, that wasn't the case last year.

Should they return to last year's form it will certainly make things a lot more interesting for the championship race.

I'm not saying that will happen. Right now it looks like they won't be caught by Ferrari, however, a few DNF's and it becomes a whole new ball game.

Of course for this scenario to play out Ferrari would have to maintain a perfect mechanical record.

2006 McLaren Reliability Results

Australian Grand Prix - JPM - DNF - mechanical
Spanish Grand Prix ---- JPM - DNF - mechanical

you don't happen to be a JPM fan are, you?
I'd say JPM's near crash at the last corner was a driving error rather than a mechanical failure.
As was One Problem's spin in Spain.

[fastlegs]

Originally posted by skonks


you don't happen to be a JPM fan are, you?
I'd say JPM's near crash at the last corner was a driving error rather than a mechanical failure.
As was One Problem's spin in Spain.

The reason for JPM's DNF was due to an electrical failure.

Source: http://www.edmunds.c...rticleId=109866

Source: http://www.pitpass.c...port/result.php

[VoidNT]

I think there are two decisive factors for McLaren improved reliability:
1. Paragon (or MTC) is complete and has started to operate at 100%.
2. Very good sponsorship package which provides the ability to spend more resources on quality of the product.

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by fastlegs


The reason for JPM's DNF was due to an electrical failure.

Source: http://www.edmunds.c...rticleId=109866

Source: http://www.pitpass.c...port/result.php

Montoya had a wild weekend there. A spin in qualifying and another at the race. His engine shut down because of impact when he went off the track. It was his mistake, so it can't be counted as mechanical DNF.

[jokuvaan]

I was talking about longer time period than just 2006.

[Jonzo 123]

Sooner or later I don't wish any retirements to anyone but McLaren will have one or two maybe hopefully not as I hope Ferrari do the talking side by side on track into the lead. Otherwise all I see a massive complaint to the fia and the car being stripped down to bit to make sure everything is within regulations.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by Jonzo 123
Sooner or later I don't wish any retirements to anyone but McLaren will have one or two maybe hopefully not as I hope Ferrari do the talking side by side on track into the lead. Otherwise all I see a massive complaint to the fia and the car being stripped down to bit to make sure everything is within regulations.

What they going to complain about? "Their car's better than ours"?

[paulsky]

I am completely amazed at Mclaren's reliability this year.
How could they turn it around so well and so fast?
Without it, things would have been so much different for Hamilton and Alonso.

[Hyatt]

why did that clown keep his account .... things i'll never understand ...

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by Jonzo 123
Sooner or later I don't wish any retirements to anyone but McLaren will have one or two maybe hopefully not as I hope Ferrari do the talking side by side on track into the lead. Otherwise all I see a massive complaint to the fia and the car being stripped down to bit to make sure everything is within regulations.

Schumacher went without mechnical retirements from Hockenheim 2001 to Bahrain, IIRC. So it won't necessarilly be sooner rather than later (I hope).

[Fatgadget]

Originally posted by sejanus
poor kimi. the guy leaves to find reliability, just when mclaren get it together.

Reminded me of that VW Golf GTi advert (UK) during the 80s

[Juan Kerr]

Originally posted by sejanus
poor kimi. the guy leaves to find reliability, just when mclaren get it together.

No surprise, that's what I said could happen and it has and its for a few reasons of course.
One of them though is the drivers.

[robnyc]

Originally posted by paulsky
I am completely amazed at Mclaren's reliability this year.
How could they turn it around so well and so fast?
Without it, things would have been so much different for Hamilton and Alonso.

me too. I don't know why but I am beginning to think Newey was the culprit. Look at RedBull.

[fastlegs]

Originally posted by robnyc
me too. I don't know why but I am beginning to think Newey was the culprit. Look at RedBull.

I agree with you. It seems like too much of a coincidence.

[SennasCat]

First things first. the Newey thing may have some legs, especially wrt Red Bull and the bits falling of it with monotonous regularity. However I don't think he made all the Ilmor/Mercedes detonate, although maybe some you could put down to packaging.

Kudos to McLaren for actually getting the best reliability since early 2000s (in the Mika days)

[KWSN - DSM]

Likely a mix of several.

But it should be at least considered that Kimi have carried his bad luck to the team with the overall best reliability the past 7 seasons, who suddenly find their cars breaking to a much higher degree, while the he left behind is batting a perfect game.

I have argued for at least 3 seasons, that Kimi was a large part of Kimi's bad luck. I see nothing this season to change my view on that.

Kimi is simply a car-breaker.

[former champ]

Originally posted by Steve Williams
Kudos to McLaren for actually getting the best reliability since early 2000s (in the Mika days)

The reliability they have now is better than it was even in Mika's greatest days. They are seriously good this year and very fast too, its an ominous package.

Kimi must be shitty. Even just a little bit.

[UreaBorealis]

What would explain 2003 season then?

[Big Block 8]

Originally posted by Steve Williams

Kudos to McLaren for actually getting the best reliability since early 2000s (in the Mika days)

In 2000, reliability cost Mika the WDC though. He retired from p1 in two first races of the season and in Indy too. In 99 their reliability was simply terrible and also in 98 it was reliability that kept Schumacher in contention. 2001 and 2002 were also reliability disasters.

McLaren hasn't had this kind of reliability since late 80s. Getting rid of Newey was probably the best thing that happened to them in a long, long time.

[former champ]

Originally posted by Big Block 8
In 2000, reliability cost Mika the WDC though. He retired from p1 in two first races of the season and in Indy too. In 99 their reliability was simply terrible and also in 98 it was reliability that kept Schumacher in contention.

that's a bit of a stretch but I see where your coming from, in comparison to now.

[Oho]

Originally posted by Steve Williams

Kudos to McLaren for actually getting the best reliability since early 2000s (in the Mika days)

Actually McLaren's have been much more reliable than they were toward the end of Häkkinen's tenure.

Had Häkkinen enjoyed this kind of reliability in early 2000 he'd had an extremely good chance of taking his third title on trot. After all he retired from actual lead in the first two races with blown engines with Schumacher scoring double pointers in Mika's absence.

1998 McLaren were pretty reliable in the early season with first failure at Imola for Häkkinen in the fourth race and the second one for Coulthard at Monaco in the sixth race.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by former champ
The reliability they have now is better than it was even in Mika's greatest days. They are seriously good this year and very fast too, its an ominous package.

Kimi must be shitty. Even just a little bit.

Just think how easily he would have beaten Alonso, as even Hamilton can do that.

[former champ]

Originally posted by micra_k10

Just think how easily he would have beaten Alonso, as even Hamilton can do that.

Not sure of that now to be honest. I would have liked to see Kimi and Hamilton head to head at McLaren actually.

[Big Block 8]

Originally posted by Oho

1998 McLaren were pretty reliable in the early season with first failure at Imola for Häkkinen in the fourth race and the second one for Coulthard at Monaco in the sixth race.

1998 Hakkinen also had mechanical troubles not resulting a DNF at Hungary and Monza, which resulted in almost non point finishes, when he had been challenging for victories - a certain win at Hungary at least, Monza win debatable.

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by UreaBorealis
What would explain 2003 season then?

They kept the same car from the previous year and thus had many less things to be ironed, sorted and fine tuned, but they still had too many problems. I guess it was only luck that Coulthard had 4 mechanical retirements and Kimi 1.

[former champ]

Originally posted by Big Block 8


1998 Hakkinen also had mechanical troubles not resulting a DNF at Hungary and Monza, which resulted in almost non point finishes, when he had been challenging for victories - a certain win at Hungary at least, Monza win debatable.

That wasn't the reason Schumacher took the title to the wire though, as you implied. It was his sensational driving all year in inferior machinery. Mika did have troubles at Hungary and Monza but every year usually the Champion of that year has troubles somewhere or other. It's rare to go through a season with not one drama.

He has far more to complain about with his 2000 campaign IMO.

[Owen]

Originally posted by former champ


That wasn't the reason Schumacher took the title to the wire though, as you implied. It was his sensational driving all year in inferior machinery. Mika did have troubles at Hungary and Monza but every year usually the Champion of that year has troubles somewhere or other. It's rare to go through a season with not one drama.

He has far more to complain about with his 2000 campaign IMO.

Here we go...

[Jonzo 123]

You think Hakkinen could beat Michael in Hungary 1998 no chance Michael was in class of his own with a slower car.