235 replies to this topic

[RA Historian]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but what's the story behind the super modified cage on Jerry's T192?

Yes it has been, but briefly stated, Hansen ran the occasional sprint car race at the St Paul half mile fairgrounds. Hence the appendage. Won a couple in 1972, as I recall, which predictably irritated USAC no end. Those wins, coupled with the success of Tom Sneva in the Pacific Northwest with a rear engine sprinter, caused USAC to ban rear engine sprint cars.
Tom

[Jim Thurman]

Yes it has been, but briefly stated, Hansen ran the occasional sprint car race at the St Paul half mile fairgrounds. Hence the appendage. Won a couple in 1972, as I recall, which predictably irritated USAC no end. Those wins, coupled with the success of Tom Sneva in the Pacific Northwest with a rear engine sprinter, caused USAC to ban rear engine sprint cars.

1973 was the year of rear engined "Sprints" in USAC with at least 8 wins - 6 by Sneva, 1 by Dave Roarhig and 1 by Hansen (at St. Paul, Minnesota State Fairgrounds). I believe Hansen also won an IMCA sanctioned race at St. Paul, but those records are not as easy to find. Interestingly, in the three features held around Labor Day at St. Paul, Hansen won 1, Sneva 1 and Tom Bigelow won the other - I believe in an upright sprint.

At the end of 1973, USAC banned rear engined Sprint Cars. Most other Sprint Car groups quickly followed suit, though the California Racing Association didn't ban them until after 1977.

Sneva's 1973 success in USAC's Sprint division was driving an old Indy Car for Carl Gehlhausen while his success in the Northwest, predominately in 1970, had nothing to do with USAC which had little presence in the NW other than an occasional midget foray. Sneva was competing in the CAMRA (Canadian American Modified Racing Association) in a Tipke 4WD rear engined Super Modified. In an amazing bit of level headedness, CAMRA did not ban the car, 4WD or rear engines - they simply required the car to run on narrower tires. Rear engined Super Modifieds continued around the country, gradually being removed track by track - association by association, until the mid-80's when Central California and finally the Pacific Northwest finally went that route. CAMRA produced Jim Malloy, Art Pollard, Billy Foster and Sneva along with several other future Indy Car drivers. I think there was one year at Indy where 7 or 8 drivers were CAMRA grads.

Likely more than you ever wanted to know, but there it is

[Sisyphus]

Likely more than you ever wanted to know, but there it is

Not at all! Thanks for the info, Jim.

One last question--were the rear engined cars just run on pavement? It seems like they would be too tail heavy for dirt but then again, isn't the weight distribution on front engine sprints approaching 50/50?

Sorry, Tom, not trying to hijack your thread....

Edited by Sisyphus, 09 October 2009 - 03:46.

[RA Historian]

Sorry, Tom, not trying to hijack your thread....

As Senor Wences would say, "S'allite!" (dating myself there.....) Highjacked threads are nothing new at TNF, and eventually they all get back on track.

I believe that St Paul was paved, but I suspect Jim Thurman may know for sure.

Tom

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

Anyone have any photos of Jerry in the ex-Bruce McLaren/Mark Donohue M6a/1? Not sure exactly what year(s) he drove it.

[raceannouncer2003]

Anyone have any photos of Jerry in the ex-Bruce McLaren/Mark Donohue M6a/1? Not sure exactly what year(s) he drove it.

1968. Here is a link to a photo:

http://www.racingspo...8-09-15-044.jpg

Vince H.

[Phigr7]

Here're other pictures with unknown copyrights



Bridgehampton

[David McKinney]

Copyright Rule No.2

If you don't know who holds the copyright, don't post

[RA Historian]

Anyone have any photos of Jerry in the ex-Bruce McLaren/Mark Donohue M6a/1? Not sure exactly what year(s) he drove it.

Jerry Hansen bought the McLaren M6A from Roger Penske in August, 1968. He drove it in that year's Can Am season and also used it to win that year's SCCA Runoffs. The car then moved on to Dave Causey for 1969.

Copyright Rule No.2

If you don't know who holds the copyright, don't post

I second that. The posting of the photos here may very well constitute a violation.

Tom

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

Thanks! The first photo is a great help in figuring out a feature on the car. Since it is strictly going to be used for reference, and I will not publish it or financially benefit from it seems to not be harming anyone(this photo apparently is already floating on the Internet).

I would suggest if someone wants a photo or image protected, they should watermark it before putting it on the Internet, otherwise the Internet is designed for exactly this type of thing...sharing information with the world.

PLEASE, lets not hijack this thread with arguments over copyright issues. You have other areas and threads to beat this horse to death (it probably will never be resolved due to the nature of the Internet). Moderators, can you help me out here?

Edited by Cam2InfoNeeded, 26 June 2010 - 18:57.

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

If anyone else has photos of the Jack Douglas sponsored car, I could sure use them. What I'm trying to get a better look at is the rear bodywork, especially that added larger radiator of the driver's left shoulder (not on other photos shown). Also rear view of car would be useful. Does anyone also know which race this was from (is this from Bridgehamton)? The 2 photos on the bottom seem to be from a different race. Thanks!

[David McKinney]

PLEASE, lets not hijack this thread with arguments over copyright issues. You have other areas and threads to beat this horse to death (it probably will never be resolved due to the nature of the Internet). Moderators, can you help me out here?

The moderators have already helped you out. Look at the top of the contents page:
http://forums.autosp...=...p;f=10&id=8

As long as people post copyright pictures, someone will point out their breach of the law

[Osteguf]

The Wolverine at a Mid Ohio SCCA Nationals weekend, most likely winning.

This is also posted in another thread, because I hope to get some real attention.

Hi guys.
There's a big problem with the car, we hope that some of you can help?
One of the shafts in the McKee gearbox broke, this saturday, and the car needs to ready for a race, next weekend.
We are in a bit of hurry, the car ships wednesday, if it's ready to race.

In danish, the shaft is named high level gear shaft, I can't find the correct english word, but I hope that you know what I mean.
Can we replace it with some kind of a standard part from a common car?
McKee gearboxes are NOT that simple to find parts for.
As a machinist, I can make the axle, but the splines and the hardening can not be made in 3 days :-(

Martin is looking forward to any reply we might get on this.

Regards, on behalf of Martin, from Kai.

Edited by Osteguf, 27 June 2010 - 10:25.

[Jim Thurman]

Not at all! Thanks for the info, Jim.

One last question--were the rear engined cars just run on pavement? It seems like they would be too tail heavy for dirt but then again, isn't the weight distribution on front engine sprints approaching 50/50?

Sorry, Tom, not trying to hijack your thread....

Sisyphus, are you still out there? Apologies. I got busy and utterly missed this. Some rear engined sprints were attempted on dirt, but as you might expect, they weren't successful. Hansen ran only pavement, as was the case with most of the rear engined entries in USAC, but in some open competition races and in the CRA (California Racing Association), rear engined sprints tried running on dirt.

Edited by Jim Thurman, 29 June 2010 - 01:12.

[jdtreelines]

Does anyone here have pics of Jerry's T260 during the ' 72 Can-Am
TIA

To the best of my (current) knowledge Jerry drove the T-260 only once, and that was at the 1972 Donnybrooke Can Am. He was a DNF. He got rid of the car shortly thereafter, to Bob Nagel perhaps?
Tom

Three years on and it seems I'm the only TNFer who was at Donnybrooke on 17th September 1972. I spent the duration of the race locked in a room at the back of the timekeepers' box preparing the official lapchart of the race, but I had been allowed out in the morning during practice to see some racecars. With my ancient camera I took a few photos one of which was of Jerry. So, with apologies for the dreadful quality, this may be the only photo of Jerry in the Lola T260.



Incidentally I haven't noticed any mention on this thread of the enormous Winnebago painted in Hansen orange that was his home every race weekend.

I'm also glad to find photographic evidence (Post #102) that my memory was not playing tricks on me when I recall being lapped (3 times per race I think) by an orange '44' SAAB Sonnett in several of the Can-Am Ice Race series in '72-73 - see my avatar on the left.

JohnD
Driver: Runaway Chainsaw Racing Team

[RA Historian]

Thanks, John, for the photo and recollections. I have never seen a photo of Hansen's T-260 before. Rare indeed. The rear wing detail confirms that this car went to Bob Nagel after Hansen's one race in it.
Tom

[S A Dunbar]

I WAS THERE! A lifetime Jerry fan, and also of Cevert in his only Can-Am win. Saw Donohue fly off Turn 1 at like 200 mph....

I'd have to look, but think my Dad took an image of Jerry's T260 also. There goes your exclusive contract!

Two months later was our first trip to the SCCA Runoffs at Road Atlanta. Jerry stepped up a Lola-year and ran the ex-Hobbs T310, also for just one race as with the T260. Beat Steve Durst in a McLaren M8D (a Can-Am regular in a better car than the T310, by all reports....), and Charlie Kemp in the ex-Donohue 917/10K. This in a downpour, and one of his still-a-record three wins at one Runoffs. His Formula A win was in another downpour.....

Thanks for the memory, and no apologies necessary.... image quality has nothing to do with memory quality.

I was at both of those races also! And 1973 was my third Runoff's trip.

[Allen Brown]

Sorry to go OT, but were either of you at Donnybrook 27 May 1972? Bill Barber had a brand new Chevron B19 there that day and I'm really keen to get a picture of it.

[S A Dunbar]

Sorry to go OT, but were either of you at Donnybrook 27 May 1972? Bill Barber had a brand new Chevron B19 there that day and I'm really keen to get a picture of it.

I was - but I don't have the picture you are looking for.



Does anyone remember the two 500 mile races that were held at Donnybrooke, I believe in 1971 and 1972? The 500 mile races featured A Production and B Production cars. We won the B Production class in a Ron Kaplan/Nickey built Corvette both years the race was held... Dick Smothers won the A Production class in 1972 driving a beautiful Greenwood Corvette.

Edited by S A Dunbar, 28 January 2011 - 18:43.

[Allen Brown]

Sorry to go OT, but were either of you at Donnybrook 27 May 1972? Bill Barber had a brand new Chevron B19 there that day and I'm really keen to get a picture of it.

I was - but I don't have the picture you are looking for.

Do you still have the program? The BSR entry list could be useful.

Many thanks!

[Allen Brown]

I have the '72 Runoffs program, if that helps.

(+:30 sec.).... I just checked it and see it listed in there.... and now remember that car and its Marathon Oil livery.

Thanks E1pix but it's the first appearance of that car that I'm trying to understand better. Shierson had an early B19 for himself in 1971 and the team also ran a B16 that season. In early 1972, they had two B19s (for Shierson and Barber) and the story was that the B16 had been rebuilt into a B19 (not a trivial task). However, evidence has emerged recently to suggest that the second B19 was a new car. If the entry list from Donnybrook in May had shown two B19s but also a B16, it would have strengthened that case. One possibility is that the B16-rebuilt-as-B19 story was just a cover to escape some import duty.

The two B19s had very different roll hoops so photographs from any time in 1971 or 1972 would be extremely useful.

[Marc Sproule]

Here's a pic of Hansen during the '79 Can Am weekend at Road America.....

http://www.flickr.co...N03/5443757460/

[S A Dunbar]

From the 1990 RA IMSA program, an article on the demise of the Pagoda. The text is mostly unreadable, but the photos tell the story. The Pagoda had to go to make room for the modern pit road for CART. For better or worse depending on your perspective, these were the early days of the transformation from the "old" RA to the modern racing plant it is today.

Does anyone recall what year the original Pagoda was burned down?

[Marc Sproule]

Cool Shot in Turn 5, Marc!

I was 19 then and well remember your work in the '70s racing rags, we chatted trackside at least once in that era.

I was a teenager with a credential, a scary combo indeed. Loved every 1/125 second.

Thanks E1. I reckon that pic of Hansen was probably taken at 1/125th too.

[S A Dunbar]

Not sure if this helps much.... it was there in 1989 but not in 1992.

I'm pretty sure it was burned down in 1991.... was there for CART in '92 and think it was the new Tower's debut race, or at least season.

I was thinking between the 1989 and 1990 seasons, but I'm not sure...

[RA Historian]

Does anyone recall what year the original Pagoda was burned down?

RA Historian would surely know. He'd likely know the exact date, the time, the weather, and the humidity.

.... And how many brats he had that day!

It was destroyed by fire after the 1989 season. It was used as a training exercise for the Plymouth and Elkhart Lake Fire Departments. It had not been used since 1984, as the (then) new VIP/T&S/Press/Race Control building was placed into use for the 1985 season. It was burned down not long after the 1989 season ended, as the area south of the Pagoda had trees cleared, ground leveled, and pavement poured for a new paddock area. The previous paddock was, and is, grass, and an upgrade to professional standards for the paddock was way overdue.

I cannot give a weather report, but St John the Baptist stand was not open that day, so no bratwurst. Had to have two for lunch the first race day of the year to make up for it.

Tom

[S A Dunbar]

I knew you'd know.... what you knew.... and still know.

1985? Man, I was way off, but now recall it at the '85 Sprints. But I do remember yesterday's lunch.... I think.

Yes, the double brat has as much power as a 917/30K. That I do know. Don't forget da kraut, and da corn.

And the Root Beer floats!

[arttidesco]

More idle curiosity than serious research, but does anyone have a pic of Jerry Hansen driving the monster Lola T310 to its only, in period, victory at Road Atlanta on Nov 26th 1972 ?

[arttidesco]

My Dad took a couple of that car, but it will be quite some time before I scan them.... several thousand of my own need to be prepped for sale first.

Great race, though.... Hansen in the T310, Charlie Kemp in a newly ex-Penske Porsche 917/10K (still in L&M colors), and Steve Durst in a McLaren M8D ran closely together in absolutely dreadful, very cold and soaking-wet weather. Something took Kemp out by mid-race I believe, Hansen and Durst battled it out to the end. Tiptoe....

Thanks for your account of the race E1 Pix, I was wondering what the weather was like in Atlanta at the end of November

This thread has only been going 3 1/2 years look firward to seeing your Dads pics when you get around to it :-)

[RA Historian]

Dang near snowed.... Yep, that was the last year of having the Runoffs around Thanksgiving.... they bumped it back 5 weeks after that, now it's 8 weeks before Thanksgiving. I'd still go if it was an ice race.

It DID snow in 2000 at Mid Ohio. Race was the first weekend in October, which is very chancy. Mid Ohio moved it up two weeks starting the next year, and we did not have weather problems at Mid Ohio thereafter. But it was very cold in 2000. I was camping out that weekend, and believe me, it WAS cold! Snow fell during a race or two on Saturday of that weekend, IIRC. Runoffs moved back to mid October for 2007-09 when they were at Topeka. One would think that it would be OK, but one morning in 2007 the temperature was 26 degrees F as we entered the track. Road America now runs it the last weekend in Sept. Keeping my fingers crossed...
Tom

[S A Dunbar]

It DID snow in 2000 at Mid Ohio. Race was the first weekend in October, which is very chancy. Mid Ohio moved it up two weeks starting the next year, and we did not have weather problems at Mid Ohio thereafter. But it was very cold in 2000. I was camping out that weekend, and believe me, it WAS cold! Snow fell during a race or two on Saturday of that weekend, IIRC. Runoffs moved back to mid October for 2007-09 when they were at Topeka. One would think that it would be OK, but one morning in 2007 the temperature was 26 degrees F as we entered the track. Road America now runs it the last weekend in Sept. Keeping my fingers crossed...
Tom

Remember the ice storm at Road Atlanta runoffs in 1971? The only year we stayed in a motor home, and we woke up frozen in it. Easily a quarter to half inch of ice covering us. It took hours to get out. And then the doors and hood of the race car (1963 Corvette Coupe) were frozen shut. We had to chip our way in. What a start to the week!

Edited by S A Dunbar, 08 March 2011 - 03:14.

[arttidesco]

Thanks, Artti:

Someday, all will be scanned....

Top job

[S A Dunbar]

Heard about it in '72, our first trip to a Runoffs.

SA, when was your first?

RA, Same?

1971 at Road Atlanta was my first runoffs... Went to 22 runoffs all together...

[RA Historian]

Heard about it in '72, our first trip to a Runoffs.

SA, when was your first?

RA, Same?

Late comer. Started going to the Runoffs in 1998 which was the first year I got the assignment from Sports Car Mag. On Track too, for that matter. Have been going ever since. Worked the press room for SCCA for many years, but when it moved to my home track two years ago I stopped doing that and now just write for Sports Car and do my stuff for the track.
Tom

[RA Historian]

Until RA allows spectators to attend for the whole week, like all the other venues did, you're catching up fast.

At this time there has been little, if any, spectator requests for all week. As it is, Thursday spectator gate is small. Fri thru Sun, when the races are held, are in demand. Track not eager at this time, as I understand it, to pay the greatly increased premium for spectator insurance coverage when there is minimal demand.
Tom

[RA Historian]

Don't really agree, Eric. The extra costs of insurance, security, etc., are not made up by the very few additional paid admissions. As I understand it, the insurance premiums are not based on number of spectators, but on whether or not spectators are allowed. Hence, additional days for spectators would be very costly indeed, and far from offset. I have to side with the track on this one. When I run into the track's insurance agent in a month or two, I will verify with him.

Outside of the families of the participants, there are precious few interested in watching days of nothing but a series of 20 minute sessions. All those years I went to Mid-O and Topeka I never felt I missed anything by driving there on Thursday, watching Fri-Sun , and driving home either all night Sunday or on Monday. At that, since I was still working a day job, I was taking two or three vacation days, which by the fall of the year were beginning to be scarce indeed. As I said earlier, the demand is not there.

Now I admit that I have not had to pay admission to any events since 1979. I have been fortunate indeed to have press credentials for the past 30+ years. But having said that, I would not be interested in driving long distances and paying admission fees simply to watch short practice sessions. Even now, with the Runoffs at my home track, just 60 miles from my home, I do not go up every day of Runoffs week, just one day before the race days to get background info for my magazine reports. Perhaps too much of a good thing, but all that aside, I simply could not justify taking precious vacation days off from work to watch short practice sessions. You obviously feel differently than I do, but I suspect that the average Joe spectator may see it more the way I do.
Tom

Edited by RA Historian, 10 March 2011 - 02:11.