73 replies to this topic

[Speed_Racer]

Apparently the 2007 spec Bridgestone tyres have been troubling more than a few drivers. The ones that have made the transition from Michelin Tyres seem to have been hurt the most. The newer drivers who have graduated from GP2 (Hamilton, Rosberg) seem to be having a better time.

Here is a compilation of quotes on this very topic.


Theissen: ''Nick and Robert are two topdrivers, we're very happy with them. Kubica, like Alonso, suffered from the switch to Bridgestone tyres but now he has overcome the worst."

http://forums.autosp...509#post2766509
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Kimi admits new tyres do not suit his style

Kimi Raikkonen has admitted that the new-generation Bridgestone tyres do not suit his
driving style as well as he would like. The 2007-spec tyres are made of a harder compound
than last year’s rubber following Formula 1’s move into a sole tyre supplier era. BMW
Sauber’s Robert Kubica was the first driver to conclude that he may have to adapt his style
to suit the Bridgestones following the pre-Christmas winter tests.

And now Raikkonen, who has been used to Michelins at McLaren in recent years, admits he will
have to work with Ferrari on adapting the set-up of the F2007 to enable him to get the best
out of the new tyres. When asked at this week's Jerez test if the Bridgestones suit his
driving style, Raikkonen replied: “no, not really". “I think we need to work on the car to
make it work for me," he was quoted as saying by autosport.com. “It is getting better all
the time but it takes time to get used to [the tyres].” itv-f1.com

http://forums.autosp...495#post2620495
____________

An interview with Kimi:

Q: You haven’t impressed in the way the fans expected to.
KR: The first to be dissapointed is me. But there are logical explanations, I haven’t simply
unlearned to drive in the wintertime. All the problems are technically related. Learning how
to drive the Bridgestone tyres, the way the tyres influenced the regulations. And then some
driver mistakes of course.

Q: What is so difficult using the tyres ?
KR: That you can’t find the limit, you don’t understand it, as long as you don’t push to the
limit and stay on track. It’s a matter of getting used to it, but I will.

Q: For Hamilton the season has started better than for anyone else. Don’t you think it’s
incredbile a rookie does so well ?
KR: He’s good. He started in an ideal situation, in an ideal year. Had he made his debut in
2006, he would have suffered. He has been driving (testing) a lot on the tyres we use now
and hardly did any testing with the Michelins. It doesn’t happen normally with debutants but
McLaren is a first class team and their car is very strong. No, it’s not incredible.

http://forums.autosp...410#post2767410
____________

Wurz speak :

Alex said: "I have to just get my head around the qualifying and how I can extract the best
out of the tyres. I haven't really fine-tuned my driving for this, but it is something I am
working on. I know with the older tyres from last year I could really nail it on the lap
totally."

http://www2.f1networ...07/st117619.htm


Q: It seems that the FW29 suits Nico Rosberg’s driving style more than yours. Would you
agree and is there an explanation for this?
AW: When you take a look at the latest data, it is fair enough to say that the tyres fit
Nico’s turning style better than my own. I personally do not like that the tyres are not so
direct in the front, and I did prefer last year’s tyre material. Nevertheless, I still
should be able to adjust to this. I am working on this, and in the races I am fine, but I am
still unable to transform this in the qualifying sessions. This is my weak area, but it does
not give me sleepless nights as I know the problem and I am working on solving it.
http://www.zimbio.com/Alexander+Wurz

______________

Flavio speak:
Briatore: "I think Fernando, above all, is a champion. Like everybody, he is having difficulties to adapt to a new team. He has gone from using Michelin tyres to using Bridgestone, while Hamilton already knows the tyres from GP2.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/59984

__________

Webber Speak :

Lewis Hamilton has been helped in his stunning start to his Formula One career by the new
tyres used this year, Red Bull driver Mark Webber says. The Australian says more experienced
drivers have been hampered by adapting to the new Bridgestone control tyres.
"It has been very difficult for the guys who are seasoned campaigners to get used to these
tyres," Webber said.
"The cars are vastly different but that final feel for us in terms of the confidence in the car is the tyres."

Webber describes this as one of a "few little subtleties that have helped [Hamilton] along
the way" and admits that many regard tyres as "boring".
But he pointed out that the Bridgestones behave very differently from the Michelin rubber
used by many of Hamilton's rivals in recent years.

Hamilton's McLaren team-mate Fernando Alonso, the world champion, and Ferrari's Kimi
Raikkonen had been particularly badly affected because they have driven on Michelins for at
least the last five years.

"It's like a golf or tennis player all using the same rackets," said Webber, talking in an
interview with BBC Radio Five Live.

"Lewis, his fresh and naïve approach, that's all he knows. Fernando has struggled big time
on these tyres.

"And that's not an excuse and Fernando hasn't used it as one because it's up to us to get on
top of it, Kimi is the same. But most of us have found it very frustrating."

http://news.bbc.co.u...one/6268494.stm

________

Heidfeld's driving style changed
BMW Sauber F1 driver Nick Heidfeld believes his driving style has changed in the past few years. Due to various changes in the Formula One rules the German believes he had to change his style in order to get the maximum out of the car.

"Essentially my driving style has been refined over the years. In a go-kart I was still known as a metal-basher, but already by my Formula Ford days I was treating the material and the tyres with care. That is still the case today," explained Heidfeld.

"My general approach to Formula 1 has certainly become a bit cooler, and the initial respect has given way to routine. What has also changed over the years is that I don't stay in the paddock as long in the evenings. I'm still one of the last drivers to leave, but in the past I often stayed till midnight, poring over data. Eventually you can't see the wood for the tress any more, and you sleep suffers."
http://f1.gpupdate.n...-style-changed/

_________

Hamilton "to change style"
A McLaren spokesman (interestingly not Ron Dennis) has confirmed that McLaren do not want the problems of the past couple of years where they had to run two cars with very different set-ups. Their proposed solution is to get Hamilton to change his driving style to match Alonso's on the basis that "he is young and everything he learns is good" so he can adapt without difficulty.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A19134092

_______

Alonso's changes
Prior to the Melbourne F1 Grand Prix, there had been many reports that the new 2007 Bridgestone tyres required some drivers to change their driving style to extract more grip from the tyres.

Fernando Alonso has always been known for his super aggresive turn in style which he had developed as his own over the years. He would violently throw the steering wheel towards the corner and with a sticky rear end he would get great traction from the exit of the corner.

Now since the new 2007 tyres were introduced, it seems as if he has had to “soften” his corner entry a little to possibly compensate for the overall less grip the new compound of tyres provide for this year. i.e. his steering work is now smoother and less abrupt when going into the corner.
http://wp.circuitclub.com.au/?p=126

________
Kovalainen's woes

Bridgestone tyres divide F1 drivers in two camps – one in which drivers handle them without problems, while the drivers in the other camp are forced to learn a less aggressive driving style.

Drivers of the aggressive driving style camp are, for example,: McLaren’s Fernando Alonso, Ferrari’s Kimi Räikkönen, BMW’s Robert Kubica and Renault’s Heikki Kovalainen.

“My driving style wasn’t so aggressive at the beginning, but when I got to follow Fernando Alonso’s driving, I started to drive the same way”, says Kovalainen in Auto, Motor und Sport magazine.

Kovalainen got used to the style that Alonso used Michelin tyres while driving over 30 000 kilometres of tests for Renault, before getting to race with totally different Bridgestone rubber.

Fisichella’s style works!
Known from his soft driving style, Giancarlo Fisichella got used to the new tyres much easier.
“Now I changed my driving style back to my previous style and got closer to Giancarlo’s tyre usage.”

Apparently, Ferrari’s Aldo Costa knows Räikkönen’s problems. “You have to brake in the curve as late as you can, just like before, but in a softer way than what Kimi was used to.”

Alonso has the same problems:
Räikkönen tested for two days to prepare for Canadian GP at Paul Ricard, where he got the tyres to work at their best.

However, that doesn’t promise anything for the North American tour, because the testing track didn’t match to the Canadian GP’s accelerate and brake character. For what we have seen, Montreal could be the most difficult race for Räikkönen’s and Alonso’s driving style.

“After each visit in the car, I had learned more about the tyres. They are very different from what I drove on the previous season. And from what I heard and read, Fernando Alonso’s comments about the tyres have basically been the same as mine”. –said Räikkönen

- Turun Sanomat

_______________


Perhaps that explains why the likes of Kimi and Alonso have been rather lacklusture against lesser rated teammates in the past weeks. The effect of tyres in the context of driving styles has been more prominent this season than any that i can remember in the past.

Thoughts?

[VoidNT]

Good compilation.
There was another analysis of the matter some days ago on ITV site.

Apparently this tyre problem is not only a question of adapting driver's mindset and driving style to it, but also it's about adjusting the car in a proper way to help a driver to overcome his struggles and make his life with new tyres easier in order to produce better laptimes. Considering the fact that Raikkonen and Alonso are spending their first year with new teams, the problem of adapting to the new tyres is/was somewhat more complicated for them.

[COUGAR508]

It is perhaps therefore significant that both Kimi and Fernando have begun to make an impact as mid-season has approached, having become accustomed to the new tyres. The advantage of Hamilton, and particularly Massa, has been eroded.

[brunopascal]

Originally posted by COUGAR508
It is perhaps therefore significant that both Kimi and Fernando have begun to make an impact as mid-season has approached, having become accustomed to the new tyres. The advantage of Hamilton, and particularly Massa, has been eroded.

In the pre-season talk and guessing I thought KR and FA would hardly suffer from being on new tires or in a new team. I thought most of the adaptation would have been sorted during testing before the Aus GP, and I also thought them to be skilled enough to make up for much of it anyway.

However, I was wrong. It seems to have been a lot harder and took more time than I thought. Still I was confident that both KR and FA would sort it all out eventually, and now it seems that they both have to a great extent.
FA said that since Canada (IIRC) he's been satisfied, and Kimi's been looking good since the US GP (in the race particularly).

But I believe there's still more to come from FA, KR and other previous Michelin-drivers as they continue to adapt and learn.

Also, I heard somewhere that there's little difference between the Michelins 2006 and the Bridgestones 2007 in fast corners, and if so, it was reflected in the fact that FA, KR, and RK all beat their teammates at Silverstone.

[santori]

Originally posted by VoidNT
Good compilation.
There was another analysis of the matter some days ago on ITV site.

I didn't watch that Silverstone. Yes, Kimi, Fernando and Robert had excellent races but so did Felipe and Nick. At the end of the first lap, Nick was 3 seconds behind Robert. At the end of the race he was... 3 seconds behind Robert.
His qualifying wasn't very good - although he did stop a couple of laps after Robert - but there was nothing wrong with his race.

[giacomo]

Nick Heidfeld handled the Bridgestones from day one. Seems he is the most adaptable driver in F1, not Alonso or Raikkonen.

[F1Champion]

I like this thread.....


But does anyone have any information on how Kimi and Co have adapted their driving styles? Are there any commentators that can comment on how braking, turn-in, steering angle etc have changed?

It seems to me that even though Kimi, Alonso and Kubica have adapted they can't drive in their most natural and raw forms that made them so fast compared to their team mates last season. It seems that these tyres have reduced their maximum speeds which would explain the fact why they are only 0.1-0.2 max quicker than their team mates.


These drivers were shatteringly fast in turn-in in 2006.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by F1Champion
It seems that these tyres have reduced their maximum speeds which would explain the fact why they are only 0.1-0.2 max quicker than their team mates.

Back in 1999-2000 the teammate differences used to be just a couple tenths. During tyre war they were easily 0.5 sec in direction or another. Now it's again just a couple tenths.

It's like playing with soft ball instead of heavy ball now. It doesnt fly fast no matter how hard you throw.

[Speed_Racer]

Interesting quotes from http://www.itv-f1.co...ral&PO_ID=40027 :

Raikkonen’s team-mate Felipe Massa spent all of 2003 testing Ferraris on tyres very like those being used this year. At BMW Nick Heidfeld spent the 2003 and ’04 seasons on Bridgestones with Sauber and Jordan respectively.


Perhaps Michael would now be thinking that he'd have been fine continuing in F1 @ Ferrari (if he really did quit in fear of Kimi outpacing him). He'd easily have had the measure of Kimi for most part of the season. And 2008 onwards, with no traction control he would have dominated anyway.....

Highly rated (before 2005) Fisi's poor showing in contrast to Alonso for the past two seasons on equal machinery with Michelin rubber and better showing on Bridgestone rubber which "suits his style better" is a striking example from what things seem to be....

[skonks]

Originally posted by micra_k10

Back in 1999-2000 the teammate differences used to be just a couple tenths. During tyre war they were easily 0.5 sec in direction or another. Now it's again just a couple tenths.

It's like playing with soft ball instead of heavy ball now. It doesnt fly fast no matter how hard you throw.

you suggest it being (with tyre war) just a matter of throwing the dice. When it was even driver X was 0.5 faster than Y, while when odd driver Y was 0.5 faster than X.

Well if you go to have a check, you'll see that the faster or most addaptable or ... was faster than the other-one. That ranged from track to track with or without tyre war.

Tyre war didn't change anything, as even during tyre war tyre might have differed big time between 2 consecutive years. The best drivers extracted more from the package. It was no "RANDOM 0.5 gap between drivers"

I remember talk that Schumacher or Hakkinen or Villnioo would be hurt by the introduction of grooves in 98 ... and what do you know nothing happend. Or that Fisichella would have the upperhand in 05 as he was gentile with the tyres.

[klover]

Originally posted by Speed_Racer


Perhaps Michael would now be thinking that he'd have been fine continuing in F1 @ Ferrari (if he really did quit in fear of Kimi outpacing him). He'd easily have had the measure of Kimi for most part of the season. And 2008 onwards, with no traction control he would have dominated anyway.....

Considering MS drove with TC - legal, hidden as option 13, etc. throughout most of his career, that statement is a bit like wishful thinking.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by skonks

you suggest it being (with tyre war) just a matter of throwing the dice. When it was even driver X was 0.5 faster than Y, while when odd driver Y was 0.5 faster than X.

I dont suggest other than now there is less room to make a difference with your driving. All you can do is drive and try not make a mistake. There is no potential in the tyres to push hard and be aggressive.

[ASD]

Originally posted by Speed_Racer
...
Perhaps Michael would now be thinking that he'd have been fine continuing in F1 @ Ferrari (if he really did quit in fear of Kimi outpacing him). He'd easily have had the measure of Kimi for most part of the season. And 2008 onwards, with no traction control he would have dominated anyway.....

I'm sure Michael is thinking he'd have been well ahead of Kimi now. Kimi overall has been performing on a broadly similar level to Massa so far this season, and Schumacher knew he was able to outperform Massa, as he did comfortably while they were team mates.
But Michael decided he was ready for a break from F1. I never believed he was scared of Kimi, and Kimi's performance so far on this year's tyres justifies that.
It may be that Kimi now gets more out of the car/tyres - he needs to if he's going to challenge Hamilton - but he'd no doubt be playing catch-up with Schumacher if MS hadn't retired.

[prty]

Originally posted by ASD

But Michael decided he was ready for a break from F1. I never believed he was scared of Kimi, and Kimi's performance so far on this year's tyres justifies that.

No it doesn't. He, like the rest of the people, didn't know that some drivers would struggle with the new tyres.

[wingwalker]

Originally posted by F1Champion
I like this thread.....


But does anyone have any information on how Kimi and Co have adapted their driving styles? Are there any commentators that can comment on how braking, turn-in, steering angle etc have changed?

kubica said he could have kept his style with the right setup but he figured he would be quicker with a new style, so he changed the way he drives the car.

[ASD]

Originally posted by prty


No it doesn't. He, like the rest of the people, didn't know that some drivers would struggle with the new tyres.

Yes, he knew more about Bridgestones than Kimi.
And he's a better judge of how the tyres work, and how other drivers' styles suit them than you are, or I am, or any non-driving pundit. Did you know he had a lot of experience of driving F1 tyres and cars - more than anyone else in fact - including all the other drivers? Only Barrichello compares.
He had a better idea of what the 2007 car would be like than any outsider to Ferrari.
He also knew the way the team functions at Ferrari and the best way of working there which Kimi has had to learn.

[prty]

Originally posted by ASD


Yes, he knew more about Bridgestones than Kimi.
And he's a better judge of how the tyres work, and how other drivers' styles suit them than you are, or I am, or any non-driving pundit. Did you know he had a lot of experience of driving F1 tyres and cars - more than anyone else in fact - including all the other drivers? Only Barrichello compares.
He had a better idea of what the 2007 car would be like than any outsider to Ferrari.
He also knew the way the team functions at Ferrari and the best way of working there which Kimi has had to learn.

He knew the Bridgestones better but he had no chance to know how they were going to work with Kimi. In fact, if we are guided by Brundle's insight video, it looked like he and MS had the same driving style. And he has no access to McLaren's telemetry so he still had no way to accurately know KR's style. He also couldn't know how KR would do in comparation with FM. And if we are to believe Bridgestone, the tyres were suposed to be new for everyone so MS couldn't know their characteristics, what would or wouldn't work with them.

What counts is what he knew when he decided to retire, before KR got to test a Ferrari.

[Spunout]

Originally posted by prty


He knew the Bridgestones better but he had no chance to know how they were going to work with Kimi. In fact, if we are guided by Brundle's insight video, it looked like he and MS had the same driving style. And he has no access to McLaren's telemetry so he still had no way to accurately know KR's style. He also couldn't know how KR would do in comparation with FM. And if we are to believe Bridgestone, the tyres were suposed to be new for everyone so MS couldn't know their characteristics, what would or wouldn't work with them.

What counts is what he knew when he decided to retire, before KR got to test a Ferrari.

Spot on

[Spunout]

Observation:

Compare the pre-2007 cars and 2007 cars in corner entry. While last year they turned in like house fly, this year it´s slower, softer, more progressive. Mostly in slow corners (in fast corners there isn´t much difference). Also, several drivers have said it is tougher to "feel" the front tyres. However, IMO McLaren managed to solve this issue. Check out Monaco, Canada, USA...see how they handle in corner entry. Huge difference! They look almost like 2006 cars. That is something Ferrari has tried to figure out as well, with partial success. Both Räikkönen and Massa mentioned how they managed to make the front end "stick" better.

If the tyres stay about the same...will all 2008 cars handle like 2006 cars!?

But does anyone have any information on how Kimi and Co have adapted their driving styles? Are there any commentators that can comment on how braking, turn-in, steering angle etc have changed?

Generally speaking: smoother braking, more progressive turn-in, let the car "roll" more in the corners...more progressive transition from braking to accelerating. That´s as much as I can figure out from telly.

[gerry nassar]

Originally posted by prty


He knew the Bridgestones better but he had no chance to know how they were going to work with Kimi. In fact, if we are guided by Brundle's insight video, it looked like he and MS had the same driving style. And he has no access to McLaren's telemetry so he still had no way to accurately know KR's style. He also couldn't know how KR would do in comparation with FM. And if we are to believe Bridgestone, the tyres were suposed to be new for everyone so MS couldn't know their characteristics, what would or wouldn't work with them.

What counts is what he knew when he decided to retire, before KR got to test a Ferrari.

Exactly

He had no idea how Kimi would perform. Nor how Alonso, Hamilton, Massa or anyone else would. It could have been just as likely that the BS tyres did not suit MS' style as much as Massa's - we just don't know.

In regards to the thread topic - yes the tyres have definitely been a deciding factor. I think its no coincidence that Kimi, Alonso, Kubica and Kovalienan have all come good around the same part of the season.

[DavidG]

Its funny how many around here have downplayed this issue to the point of calling it a silly excuse. Those comments make them look pretty foolish. This seems to have been a bigger issue than most of realized.
People dont understand how tempremental performance is even in talented athletes. I remember reading Pete Sampras talking about how he thought he may have been handicapped later in his career for not changing raquets to the newer breed which offered a bigger hitting zone, he said he always wanted to try but was worried he would lose his control and it would damage his game, so he simply stayed with what he was used to. These guys are all finely tuned and the peak performance edge is very sharp. Easily to slip off if things are not perfect.

[speedy]

Thanks for the compilation and starting a thread with such a good topic.

Most things usually have a logical explanation and it is not a coincidence that some drivers have started to perform better and better as the season has progressed. I think the ex Michelin drivers have more room to improve compared with their colleagues who have got used to Bstones along the years. The end of the season will be very interesting from this point of view alone.

[wingwalker]

given the fact all the "agressive pack" got a lot better after few races, i think it's safe to say that winter BS talk about how the new tyres are so completely different from anything used in the past was... BS.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by wingwalker
given the fact all the "agressive pack" got a lot better after few races, i think it's safe to say that winter BS talk about how the new tyres are so completely different from anything used in the past was... BS.

They were more or less struggling. They were unable to initially reach the full potential consistently for whatever reasons. You can call it adapting and adjusting too.

[Gecko]

Originally posted by wingwalker
given the fact all the "agressive pack" got a lot better after few races, i think it's safe to say that winter BS talk about how the new tyres are so completely different from anything used in the past was... BS.

Funny, I would have thought the fact that the struggling drivers improved would prove exactly the opposite, in that the tyres were indeed different enough so that they needed to adapt both their driving style and the setup to them.

From what is being reported and observed, it seems that the Bridgestones differ from the Michelins in two key areas. One is the behaviour of the tyre after the peak slip angle has been achieved. The Michelin performance appears to have been very much "flat" in that putting on more steering didn't result in a loss of grip, something used to great effect by Alonso and Kubica in the past.

Another effect seems to be the combination of braking and steering. Most tyres actually give the best grip precisely in this combined regime. Michelins probably did so to an even greater extent, allowing drivers to both brake hard and turn in at the same time, something that does not seem to be as pronounced on the Bridgestones.

The differences between the tyres are probably not all that great, but we are talking about gaps of one or two tenths here, not about drivers not being able to drive on these tyres at all. As others have pointed out, at this level of the game it's very minor details that can decide the outcomes.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by ASD


Yes, he knew more about Bridgestones than Kimi.
And he's a better judge of how the tyres work, and how other drivers' styles suit them than you are, or I am, or any non-driving pundit. Did you know he had a lot of experience of driving F1 tyres and cars - more than anyone else in fact - including all the other drivers? Only Barrichello compares.
He had a better idea of what the 2007 car would be like than any outsider to Ferrari.
He also knew the way the team functions at Ferrari and the best way of working there which Kimi has had to learn.

And yet with all that BS experience he still managed to lead Ferrari down the wrong path when he insisted on using the narrow front tyres.

He was no better positioned than any other observer as to how well any driver would have adapted to the change in tyres, and, unless he has actually driven the current spec Ferrari with the new tyres he is in no position to say how either the car or the tyres work.

[ASD]

Originally posted by prty
He knew the Bridgestones better but he had no chance to know how they were going to work with Kimi (1) In fact, if we are guided by Brundle's insight video, it looked like he and MS had the same driving style. And he has no access to McLaren's telemetry so he still had no way to accurately know KR's style (2). He also couldn't know how KR would do in comparation with FM. And if we are to believe Bridgestone, the tyres were suposed to be new for everyone so MS couldn't know their characteristics (3), what would or wouldn't work with them.

What counts is what he knew when he decided to retire, before KR got to test a Ferrari.

No.
(1) he knew the Bridgestones better than Kimi. That gives every reason for him to think that Kimi would be slower to adapt to the new tyres than he would.
As you know, MS had more experience of adapting to different tyres than other drivers such as Kimi, over his career. He started F1 in the days of slicks. He drove on 3&4-groove fronts, of different widths. He drove on Goodyears as well as Bridgestones, during periods of tyre wars and of monopoly. He drove under various qualifying formats that led to different tyre characteristics.
He had every reason to think he knew more about adapting to new tyres than other drivers.
(2) No doubt Ferrari take a close interest in analysing competitors, even if they don't have McLaren's telemetry. MS had also seen Kimi's style on the track during previous races, from the perspective of someone who knows how the current cars handle and feel. MS had a more accurate knowledge of Kimis style than any outsider.
(3) This year's Bridgestones have more in common with last year's Bridgestones than last year's Michelins. They also have more in common with other Bridgestone tyres from recent years that MS has raced or tested. He had a better idea of the likely characteristics of them than a non-racing pundit.

I also stand by my earlier points that Michael knew the way the team functions at Ferrari, and the best way of working there, which Kimi has been required to learn. And converesly the people at Ferrari knew Michael in a way that they don't know Kimi - that takes time for them to learn too.

I think what you're implying is that you underestimated the learning curve Kimi would face adapting to the 2007 Ferrari/BS, which has led to him so far not out-performing Massa. And you're not alone in that.
But that's not grounds to think MS underestimated as you did.

[prty]

Originally posted by ASD


No.
(1) he knew the Bridgestones better than Kimi. That gives every reason for him to think that Kimi would be slower to adapt to the new tyres than he would.
As you know, MS had more experience of adapting to different tyres than other drivers such as Kimi, over his career. He started F1 in the days of slicks. He drove on 3&4-groove fronts, of different widths. He drove on Goodyears as well as Bridgestones, during periods of tyre wars and of monopoly. He drove under various qualifying formats that led to different tyre characteristics.
He had every reason to think he knew more about adapting to new tyres than other drivers.
(2) No doubt Ferrari take a close interest in analysing competitors, even if they don't have McLaren's telemetry. MS had also seen Kimi's style on the track during previous races, from the perspective of someone who knows how the current cars handle and feel. MS had a more accurate knowledge of Kimis style than any outsider.
(3) This year's Bridgestones have more in common with last year's Bridgestones than last year's Michelins. They also have more in common with other Bridgestone tyres from recent years that MS has raced or tested. He had a better idea of the likely characteristics of them than a non-racing pundit.

I also stand by my earlier points that Michael knew the way the team functions at Ferrari, and the best way of working there, which Kimi has been required to learn. And converesly the people at Ferrari knew Michael in a way that they don't know Kimi - that takes time for them to learn too.

I think what you're implying is that you underestimated the learning curve Kimi would face adapting to the 2007 Ferrari/BS, which has led to him so far not out-performing Massa. And you're not alone in that.
But that's not grounds to think MS underestimated as you did.

That Schumacher would be faster initially was obvious and expected, as he spent 11 years in Ferrari. If a driver jumps into a team built around you for that much time, being inmediatly beaten would be the strange thing. But you said:

I never believed he was scared of Kimi, and Kimi's performance so far on this year's tyres justifies that.

And Massa being faster initially was what couldn't be predicted, as no one, because of the reasons I explained earlier, could know that some drivers would struggle with this year's tyres. Also, KR in the team would mean equal status, and it would be something new for MS. Changes are more difficult the older you are.

[qvn]

Originally posted by prty


That Schumacher would be faster initially was obvious and expected, as he spent 11 years in Ferrari. If a driver jumps into a team built around you for that much time, being inmediatly beaten would be the strange thing.
...
Also, KR in the team would mean equal status, and it would be something new for MS. Changes are more difficult the older you are.

Ah yeah! If MS would have dominated Kimi then people would still saying that Michael geting preferred over Kimi and Ferrari would be lying over equal status.

[F1Champion]

Originally posted by wingwalker



kubica said he could have kept his style with the right setup but he figured he would be quicker with a new style, so he changed the way he drives the car.

This is what I'm trying to get at. By Kubica changing his style hasn't he moved away from the ultimate driving style that gave him his speed, especially in 2006?

If the cars gain alot more mechanical and aero grip next year will Kimi, Alonso and Kubica begin to move back to their 2006 driving styles?

OT - I would of loved to see what Michael could of done with Michelin tyres, it just seems like you can be so aggressive with the car with those tyres. Michelin runners seemed to make up a lot of time in the braking and turn in while the Bridgestone's were better in the faster corners.

[Speed_Racer]

Originally posted by prty
he has no access to McLaren's telemetry so he still had no way to accurately know KR's style.

It would not have been impossible for Ferrari to get hold of Kimi's telemetry from Sauber where he first drove.

But that's just my speculation ....

[yr]

Originally posted by qvn


Ah yeah! If MS would have dominated Kimi then people would still saying that Michael geting preferred over Kimi and Ferrari would be lying over equal status.

You are laughing out loud for a hypothetical situation created by your imagination where MS dominates Kimi whole 07 season with equal treatment and people then, in your scenario, are questioning if MS still had his #1 status? Geez, that´s kind of... how should I put it? oh, never mind.

[prty]

Originally posted by qvn


Ah yeah! If MS would have dominated Kimi then people would still saying that Michael geting preferred over Kimi and Ferrari would be lying over equal status.

And if he hadn't, people would say he could only win with #1 status. But for some reason, he decided to retire so we'll never know.

[Spunout]

Originally posted by Speed_Racer


It would not have been impossible for Ferrari to get hold of Kimi's telemetry from Sauber where he first drove.

But that's just my speculation ....

The Sauber was different from the McLarens. In fact, the McLarens weren´t similar, either. There were huge differences in terms of handling. Bottom line: there was no way for Schumi to know how Kimi would drive 2007 Ferrari with 2007-spec tyres.

[skonks]

Originally posted by yr

You are laughing out loud for a hypothetical situation created by your imagination where MS dominates Kimi whole 07 season with equal treatment and people then, in your scenario, are questioning if MS still had his #1 status? Geez, that´s kind of... how should I put it? oh, never mind.

well, I find this quote so funny
I guess that about 90% of most same posters would have created the same imagination

[yr]

Originally posted by skonks


well, I find this quote so funny
I guess that about 90% of most same posters would have created the same imagination

In one sentence qvn had three points: 1- If MS had dominated Kimi this year 2- people would have said he still got preferential treatment 3- thus qvn also suggest that there would have been equal treatment.

I don´t know about you, but I find it kind of funny when someone is laughin for his own one liner where is three things he assumes that might have happened and zero things that has or will ever happen.

[denthierry]

yeah well, and if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle...

[Mauseri]

Rolf:

"During the early races its characteristics just did not suit my style."

"In the meantime the team has made slight changes, and I have tried to adapt to the challenges brought about by the rule changes, which was certainly not easy."

"Despite what the armchair experts say, it is simply not possible to change one’s driving style, one which, after all, functioned extremely well for many years, overnight."

[ASD]

Originally posted by speedy in the F2007 thread:

TS 18.7.07 quotes Italian Auto Sprint :

"Ferrari have looked into mirrors and realised that they have been too dependent on Michael Schumacher's wishes. Schumi preferred a stiff car and Kimi needs a more precise and softer one in order to do well. The team have now together with the driver found different way to better lap times."


Another piece of evidence for Schumacher to expect that he would have an advantage on Kimi in the first part of the season: different drivers are likely to prefer different suspension stiffness, and the new guy will take time before it's set to his liking.

[clampett]

Originally posted by DavidG
Its funny how many around here have downplayed this issue to the point of calling it a silly excuse. Those comments make them look pretty foolish. This seems to have been a bigger issue than most of realized.
People dont understand how tempremental performance is even in talented athletes. I remember reading Pete Sampras talking about how he thought he may have been handicapped later in his career for not changing raquets to the newer breed which offered a bigger hitting zone, he said he always wanted to try but was worried he would lose his control and it would damage his game, so he simply stayed with what he was used to. These guys are all finely tuned and the peak performance edge is very sharp. Easily to slip off if things are not perfect.

And all this is said by a guy who always trashed Fisichella and Montoya when they had adaption issues when they joined their new team in 2005. Good drivers always adapt, driving style is a silly excuse, whatever.

LOL, ROTFL, Arrow.

[clampett]

Originally posted by skonks


well, I find this quote so funny
I guess that about 90% of most same posters would have created the same imagination

Yes, especially the yr-slaphick trolls, who always bitch against everyone not called Godly Raikkonen, call them cheaters, flukes etc.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by ASD
Another piece of evidence for Schumacher to expect that he would have an advantage on Kimi in the first part of the season: different drivers are likely to prefer different suspension stiffness, and the new guy will take time before it's set to his liking.

Would could have... He should first be in the car to do that. He isnt. Instead he gifted the seat for mediocre Massa with his decision.

[former champ]

Originally posted by micra_k10

Would could have... He should first be in the car to do that. He isnt. Instead he gifted the seat for mediocre Massa with his decision.

and by God mediocre Massa has shown Raikkonen to be the most overpaid mediocre driver in F1 history. Thank Michael for that too.

[clampett]

Originally posted by former champ


and by God mediocre Massa has shown Raikkonen to be the most overpaid mediocre driver in F1 history. Thank Michael for that too.

Funnily I became a pseudo-fan of Massa (whom I really disliked earlier for several reasons), due to this overexposed Raikkonen-hype by some.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by former champ
and by God mediocre Massa has shown Raikkonen to be the most overpaid mediocre driver in F1 history. Thank Michael for that too.

Only one of them can be 2007 champion. That's not exactly overpaying

[prty]

Originally posted by clampett


And all this is said by a guy who always trashed Fisichella and Montoya when they had adaption issues when they joined their new team in 2005. Good drivers always adapt, driving style is a silly excuse, whatever.

LOL, ROTFL, Arrow.

It could be understood that Fisichella and Montoya performances were down to adaptation in their first year, but in their second year they were beat by a larger margin. Montoya and Fisichella clearly said in 2006 preseason that the car suited his driving style then. Briatore also said Fisichella had no excuses anymore. In 2005 it could be argued that reliability problems were the cause but in 2006 he had even better reliabilty than Alonso and the difference was even bigger.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by prty
It could be understood that Fisichella and Montoya performances were down to adaptation in their first year, but in their second year they were beat by a larger margin. Montoya and Fisichella clearly said in 2006 preseason that the car suited his driving style then. Briatore also said Fisichella had no excuses anymore. In 2005 it could be argued that reliability problems were the cause but in 2006 he had even better reliabilty than Alonso and the difference was even bigger.

Too bad for the dectrators that Kimi already has more wins than Massa, and not less, like Fisi and Monty did.

[former champ]

Originally posted by micra_k10

Only one of them can be 2007 champion. That's not exactly overpaying

It is when your mediocre.

[former champ]

Originally posted by micra_k10

Too bad for the dectrators that Kimi already has more wins than Massa, and not less, like Fisi and Monty did.

Kimi edges ahead on the wins ledger and you milk it for all it's worth. Milk it, squeeze it, taste it, enjoy it. It may just not last.

[former champ]

Originally posted by clampett


Funnily I became a pseudo-fan of Massa (whom I really disliked earlier for several reasons), due to this overexposed Raikkonen-hype by some.

Stay on the brazilian, this season has a few twists and turns left.