49 replies to this topic

[rdmotorsport]

We have spoken previously at length of such greats as Redman,Andretti etc. and their ability to switch from formulae machines to sportscars with resounding success but I would also like to mention Derek Bell in a simular mode.
Lets not forget DB was summoned to Maranello (the drivers dream and wish) and drove both in the Italian marques F2 and F1 GP teams but with no pretentions a few years later was to be seen in the Aurora and Thundersports series driving various machinery.
I think it was Mike Earle who remarked to me that DB would have certainly been World champion in F1 but his flaw was always qualifying although very swift his lap times were always very close to the previous lap but DB used this consistant talented way of driving in sportscars and particually at Le Mans.
I would also like to mention DB was also instrumental in bringing Dave Purley into the sport by dragging along to meetings and finally getting him to purchase an AC Cobra to commence Purls journey up to F1.
So again with the other greats that became multi talented in whatever they drove lets have the views on DB.

Rodney Dodson.

[john aston]

Derek Bell certainly and very obviously a superb sports car driver.But 'certainly a world champion in F1' ? I don't think so- against Rindt, Stewart, Fittipaldi ,Siffert Rodriguez ,Ickx et al ? Where is the evidence to support this belief ?

[f1steveuk]

Thoroughly nice bloke "Dinger", always makes time for questions, and very forth coming about his thoughts on his own talents. I personally think he he had (has) a superb analytical mind, nearly in the Prost mould, so yes in the right circumstances he could have been WDC, he certainly wasn't shabby at Le Mans.

[Bloggsworth]

The first time I met Derek Bell was on Easter Bank Holiday Monday, he had, the day before, won the F3 race at Chimay in his Lotus 22 (IIRC). He and his team had returned overnight, arriving at Goodwood at about 8 AM. He walked over looking as if he had stepped out of an advertisement for a Gieves & Hawkes range of casual wear, absolutely immaculate, and not looking in the slightest bit tired.

[Ray Bell]

I don't really know what the term 'journeyman driver' really means, or more correctly, I don't know where the term came from, but I think if 'Cousin' Derek in these terms...

He came to our shores first in a Ferrari, ably backing up Chris Amon and indelibly stamping his resume on me by emulating Piers Courage's efforts off the Northern Crossing... though he did spin into a pile of dirt and put a huge dent in a tub somewhere there.

He returned to drive F5000s for a couple of people here, and also to drive Bathurst tourers. In these he did well too. A great bloke to meet, my son reckons his son is a real pain because he got to register the 'justinbell.net' domain name before him.

I always think of him as one very capable of wrestling overpowered cars into submission by getting a good grip on their throats and tossing them around. But that's not all he is.

[Robert Bailey]

One of the few overseas drivers to master Bathurst and several times won his class with very high outright success.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, he drove that Alfa to a class win with Gary Leggatt in '77, half a lap up on the Escort of Stevens and Farrell, eighth outright... then the next year he ran in a Ron Hodgson Torana, qualified fifth and only got five laps into the race...

In '79 he was tenth outright with Phil McDonnell in an Alfa, half a lap behind Willo's Celica to get second in class. The following year they lost a wheel and were out after 16 laps. I think that was the sum total of his Bathurst appearances.

Don't forget, however, his great drives in Allan Hamilton's Lola.

[COUGAR508]

Originally posted by john aston
Derek Bell certainly and very obviously a superb sports car driver.But 'certainly a world champion in F1' ? I don't think so- against Rindt, Stewart, Fittipaldi ,Siffert Rodriguez ,Ickx et al ? Where is the evidence to support this belief ?

To be fair to Derek, he never really got a fair crack of the whip in F1. His Grand Prix career was a pretty spasmodic affair, and by the early 70s it was gradually taking second place to his sportscar ambitions.

He always seemed to be the ideal sportscar pilot, being consistent, mechanically sympathetic and a good "team man".

Also, he by no means disgraced himself in the RAC Rally (was it in a Vauxhall Nova?).

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by COUGAR508



To be fair to Derek, he never really got a fair crack of the whip in F1. His Grand Prix career was a pretty spasmodic affair, and by the early 70s it was gradually taking second place to his sportscar ambitions.

He always seemed to be the ideal sportscar pilot, being consistent, mechanically sympathetic and a good "team man".

Also, he by no means disgraced himself in the RAC Rally (was it in a Vauxhall Nova?).

I thought it was an Astra.

Derek is one of the great exponents of Sportscar Racing but maybe this is as a result of application. He had as Cougar508 says a somewhat disappointing F1 career due in my opinion to the spell at Ferrari where his talents were not used to the full. Once anyone becomes a "reject" from a top team it becomes increasingly difficult to get back into a car good enough for you to showcase your abilities. Therefore I would class Dinger as one of the great lost talents of F1 rather than a sure-fired World Champion.

[rdmotorsport]

Dear John Aston,

I would very much agree that with such greats around i.e. Stewert etc. Ding Dong would have had a very difficult time to win a world championship but it was Mike Earle who mooted this not I but also continued to stress DB would had to have been more "balls out" when qualifying.

[rdmotorsport]

plus DB as been around since ever so perhaps some photographs they must be loads around apart from my collection which appears to be DB wanting!

[Robert Bailey]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Yes, he drove that Alfa to a class win with Gary Leggatt in '77, half a lap up on the Escort of Stevens and Farrell, eighth outright... then the next year he ran in a Ron Hodgson Torana, qualified fifth and only got five laps into the race...

In '79 he was tenth outright with Phil McDonnell in an Alfa, half a lap behind Willo's Celica to get second in class. The following year they lost a wheel and were out after 16 laps. I think that was the sum total of his Bathurst appearances.

Don't forget, however, his great drives in Allan Moffat's Lola.

Lost me Ray re AMs Lola?

[Ray Bell]

My apologies... slip of the fingers there...

I've corrected it in my post. It was Allan Hamilton's Lola T430, Derek drove it in the 1978 Internationals.

[Rosemayer]

D Bell was always a good journeyman driver good teamate but never quite up to the skills of Ickx.

[COUGAR508]

Whilst it is true that Derek was unlikely to be World Champion, he certainly had the potential and latent talent to be a more than respectable F1 driver through the 1970s. He just never got the breaks, and maybe made a couple of ill-advised team choices (Tecno?). He was probably as good as many drivers who did have long and fruitful careers in GP racing.

[Robert Bailey]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
My apologies... slip of the fingers there...

I've corrected it in my post. It was Allan Hamilton's Lola T430, Derek drove it in the 1978 Internationals.

ok.I remember talking to Bob M and he had forgotten about DB driving his car.

[rdmotorsport]

forgive me if i offend by saying i never thought ickx was so brilliant obviously a very good driver even colin chapman thought this but his lap times in the 956 and 962 were never that different or quicker than DB

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Robert Bailey
ok.I remember talking to Bob M and he had forgotten about DB driving his car.

I remember him really wrestling the thing...

And he drove the A9X the same day, as I recall. That was at Oran Park, probably at other meetings too.

[rdmotorsport]

to go back from the beginning of this thread I was always impressed with the attitude of DB in what and when he drove I cannot think of many works Ferrari drivers who later raced in both Thundersports and Aurora series would not surprise me if he had turned up at Harewood to compete in a hillclimb!

[rosemeyer]

rdmotorsport

No offence taken

cheers Rosey

[Robert Bailey]

also in the early 80s at Bathurst with Moffat in a Mazda RX7 ,from memory 3rd outright and 1st in class.l

[rdmotorsport]

you see the more we write the better DB gets!

[Ray Bell]

I don't think teaming with Moffat took him up the social ladder at all...

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I don't think teaming with Moffat took him up the social ladder at all...

Social Ladder. ????

[Ray Bell]

Well, as a Formula 1 and Formula 2 and Tasman driver, racing in a Mazda isn't exactly a career move...

So the only gain might be to climb the social ladder. But you wouldn't do that with Al.

[cosworth bdg]

You are very right there.

[Robert Bailey]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Well, as a Formula 1 and Formula 2 and Tasman driver, racing in a Mazda isn't exactly a career move...

So the only gain might be to climb the social ladder. But you wouldn't do that with Al.

wonder whom put in the best lap times?

[Rosemayer]

DB Did have 2 pitiful years in the Speed Vision Touring car series.Qualifing in the final part of the grid and usually going out in the first 10 laps.But in his defence he was a endurence driver not being used to bumped into a spin or knocked off the track.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think he stopped caring by then, his teammate was more than competitive.

[Keir]

Derek Bell - Pretty Good ? Yes. Pretty Great ? Not !!

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by Rosemayer
DB Did have 2 pitiful years in the Speed Vision Touring car series.Qualifing in the final part of the grid and usually going out in the first 10 laps.But in his defence he was a endurence driver not being used to bumped into a spin or knocked off the track.

Well, let's examine this in a bit of detail. Derek drove in the World Challenge Touring category in, I believe, 1999, in a BMW. However, bear in mind that he was driving a Speed TV vehicle as an in-race commentator...His car had on board cameras and Derek gave us commentary from inside the race whenever they switched to him. As such I do not think that we can consider this a 100% effort by Bell.

He also drove in the World Challenge three or so years ago as the lead driver on a woebegone Volvo effort. AS has happened so many times in racing, an entrant announced with great fanfare that he would be mounting a four car Volvo effort in the WC with Bell as the lead driver. Well, the team did not appear until the season was half over, the four cars had shrunk to one, and that was , shall we say, not fully prepared. Bell drove it manfully, but never really had a chance.
Tom

[paulsenna1]

Originally posted by RA Historian
Well, let's examine this in a bit of detail. Derek drove in the World Challenge Touring category in, I believe, 1999, in a BMW.

Derek was also 58 years old by this time.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Don't forget the Audi S4 years as the teammate to the championship challenger.

[rdmotorsport]

Correct me if I am wrong but was it not mentioned at one time DB was to race or at least have a race in NASCAR?

[Robert Bailey]

I have a nice little book that DB wrote in the mid 80s? about his life,good photos and good stories on this F2 racing often in BT30s.

[willga]

Hi -

I was wondering whether anyone had any photos of Derek Bell's Lotus 41, which they could post.

Thanks,

Gareth

[rdmotorsport]

Bloody bunny,have I missed something?

[Alan Cox]

Taken yesterday at the Silverstone Classic meeting, where he was down to drive this Surtees. He also appeared in the Group C race.

[rdmotorsport]

Looking pretty good too....the swine!!, shades of Dorian Gray?

[vashlin]

Watching Derek Bell win at Laguna in the Legends race made me think of this series of pictures taken at Mosport in 1972 after his pre-race warm-up shunt at turn 5.










First three were taken by my and the last one was taken by Mr. C.

Linda C

[Andre Acker]

Linda,

Although out of the subject, have you photos of the Surtees and Ferrari cars from 1972 ?
Also any photos of the Mclaren and BRM cars from 1971 ?

No particular driver, just these cars.

VBR.
André Acker.

[rdmotorsport]

Dear Linda,

Also I would be interested in these.

Rodney.

[vashlin]

I don't think I have anything good from 1971 but I do have some pictures from 1972 and possibly '73. Most of my pictures still exist only on slides and I am working SLOWLY towards getting more on CD.

I will try and post a few of the '72 cars (that I already have done) on the Personal Photos from the Track thread later this evening when I'm home from work. I will check and see what I have. I know there is one of Denny in the McLaren and Stewart in the Tyrrell.

LinC

[rdmotorsport]

Ta!

[Gerard Gamand]

Linda,

Wonderful pic. Thanks for us.

If you have something on F2 Pygmée cars 1972 ??

[vashlin]

Alas, Gerard, I never had the chance to see F2 in any form. Would have loved the chance, tho.

Mr. C. wanted me to post his picture of Derek Bell again in a larger size as detail is lost in what I have above, so here is the "payoff pic" again, hopefully bigger this time.

It is one of his favorite photos from his collection.




LinC

[r.atlos]

May be two shots of interest: Bell watching preparation of his BT30 at Hockenheim on 11/10/1970. Any idea who the person next to him is ?



And this is his object of attention:



I think the story was that his BT30 did not arrive in time for practice, being held up either at the ferry or at customs. Thus, BMW kindly offered him to qualify in one of their Dornier-based F2 cars - which he shunted quite heavily. But obviously, his BT30 arrived in due course for the race as these pics tell us ...

[Robert Bailey]

always a favourite down under,classic photo of him lifting 2 wheels oh so high over the top at Bathurst 1,000 in 1977 in the Alfa GTV 2000.

[Gary C]

is this the Brabham that is still in the Donington Museum?

[charles r]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by r.atlos
[B]May be two shots of interest: Bell watching preparation of his BT30 at Hockenheim on 11/10/1970. Any idea who the person next to him is ?






Mike Earle?