21 replies to this topic

[f1steveuk]

Another shot in the dark, any pictures of Polish rally driver Sobieslaw Zasada in a Steyr-Puch version of the Fiat 500 ? I'm not holding my breath!!

[sterling49]

Originally posted by f1steveuk
Another shot in the dark, any pictures of Polish rally driver Sobieslaw Zasada in a Steyr-Puch version of the Fiat 500 ? I'm not holding my breath!!

No pictures Steve, but what a career he had, 911's and IIRC Works Escort Mexico for the 1970 World Cup Rally....from memory, sadly I do not know where they are, but I think he had pictures published in the Castrol Achievements Annual, but I cannot remember which year. What a name from the past!!

[f1steveuk]

And nearly pronouncable! I'd forgotten he'd been in the Escort, which has now reminded me of the Morris "Land Crab" that was in that event too, urgh!

[sterling49]

Originally posted by f1steveuk
And nearly pronouncable! I'd forgotten he'd been in the Escort, which has now reminded me of the Morris "Land Crab" that was in that event too, urgh!

Mate of mine was smoking around in one of those recently...you could hold a ball in it!

[f1steveuk]

Copyright unknown. I think it's him!!

[sterling49]

Shades of Toppo Gigio (sp)......great pic! And not a solitary spectator in sight!

[RS2000]

European Rally Champion 1966(?) - which got him the Group One(!) Porsche 912 drive (and people complained that the 911L was homolgated in Gp2....). Later, in works 911, gained an unfortunate reputation for not giving way when caught, although I think the worst incident was on the Safari in dust so maybe understandable.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by RS2000
European Rally Champion 1966(?) - which got him the Group One(!) Porsche 912 drive (and people complained that the 911L was homolgated in Gp2....). Later, in works 911, gained an unfortunate reputation for not giving way when caught, although I think the worst incident was on the Safari in dust so maybe understandable.

It had slipped my mind that it was a 912, did he win much in that? IIRC that was a four cylinder engine? Was it Porsche or VeeDub? Looking at the picture of the Puch, makes me realise the diversity that was around then, so refreshing, engines at different ends, driven wheels at different ends, air cooled, all sorts in fact, they even had different type and BRANDS of tyres ......... now who would believe that in 2007?

Sterling

[ian senior]

Originally posted by sterling49


It had slipped my mind that it was a 912, did he win much in that? IIRC that was a four cylinder engine? Was it Porsche or VeeDub?
Sterling

There was a proper Porsche 4 cylinder engine in the 912. The VW 4 pot was in the mid-engined 914 from around the same time.

[r.atlos]

Originally posted by f1steveuk
... in a Steyr-Puch version of the Fiat 500 ?

Not everything that looks like a Fiat 500 has Fiat 500 inside. The major difference was the engine: A 500cc air-cooled twin for the Fiat but an aircooled two-cylinder boxer for the Steyr.

What really made the difference was that the Styer engine could be bored out to 660cc and was reputedly giving up to 60 hp once race-prepared. There were times when the little Steyrs gave race-tuned BMW 700s a real run for their money ...

[zoff2005]

I believe the Steyr Puch engine was a BMW flat twin in fact (bike engine or car I am not sure). I went to watch the Tulip Rally in about 1964 at Zolder - the cars arrived at the break of dawn to do a special stage around the track and I very well remember Zasada extracting himself from this tiny car and giving me a wave. You could hear the car from miles away, like bells chiming - lovely sound! There was a car sold at the Monaco Bonhams auction a couple of years ago, but I am not sure if it was a genuine car or a Fiat 500 rebuilt to TR650 specifications. Steyr Puch now belongs to the Canadian company, Magna.
All the best
Marcus

[Nanni Dietrich]

Sobieslaw Zasada scored a 2nd place in the East African Safari 1972 in a Porsche 911, not so far from Hannu Mikkola. He was a very good driver, in my opinion.

Steyr Puch engine was a BMW project, agree Zoff2005.

[f1steveuk]

Thanks chap! But any pictures, even of the engines?

[r.atlos]

Originally posted by zoff2005
I believe the Steyr Puch engine was a BMW flat twin in fact (bike engine or car I am not sure).

As far as I am aware, there is no BMW parentage. This Steyr engine comes from a stillborn small car project of 1954 for which they had hired Erich Ledwinka as constructor, son of the famous Hans Ledwinka of Tatra fame recently discussed in another thread.

This project had originally failed due to lack of capital for the necessary green field site investment; however, as Steyr was already operating as assembler for the Fiat 600, it was only a logical step to extend this arrangement to the "New 500". The good thing about this agreement was that only a certain percentage of Fiat parts had to be used; by using the Ledwinka engine together with gearbox and rear suspension a major part of their previously spent development cost could thus be compensated.

If we look at the technical specification, we also realise that both engines are quite different. Let's look at the 500cc version to compare like for like:

- A BMW M252/2 engine (= R50) has 68mm bore and 68mm stroke, resulting in 494cc.
- The Steyr engine has 70mm bore and 64mm stroke, resulting in 493cc.

When moving up in capacity, BMW used to change both bore and stroke (e.g. 74mm x 68mm for their 600cc car engine or 78mm x 73mm on their 700cc car engine).

Steyr always retained a stroke of 64mm and only changed bore (e.g. 81mm x 64mm on their 660cc engine).

The central camshaft of a BMW boxer is positioned above the crankshaft and you can see two pipes above each cylinder "housing" the pushrods.

The central camshaft of the Steyr is positioned beneath the crankshaft, virtually in the sump.

[eukie]

This is from Martin Pfundner's book "Vom Semmering zum Grand Prix - Der Automobilsport in Österreich und seine Geschichte", copyright unknown. So, @Martin: please drop a note if there are any copyright infringements, i will remove it then.

The caption suggests that this is Zasada / Rally Monte Carlo 1965. But his starting number in 1965 was #29, so it must be another rally (because the number plate of the car - KW 5967 - is Zasada's).

[jarama]

Marco,

I would say that this picture is taken during to the '65 Rallye dei Fiori... but I'm not certain.


Carles.

[RS2000]

I knew Carles would be along to help soon!
The rally plate certainly looks to be the style of Rallye dei Fiori (Rally of the Flowers, forerunner of San Remo) with the car number in a white oval above the rally name.
Otherwise we can ask on Forum Auto's "Plaques des rallyes des 50s et 60s" thread.

[RS2000]

Acropolis 65 (no co driver, so the final Tatoi Airfield "race" stage)

[Todd]

Originally posted by ian senior


There was a proper Porsche 4 cylinder engine in the 912. The VW 4 pot was in the mid-engined 914 from around the same time.

The 914 replaced the 912 in the lineup for 1970. When the 914 went out of production, the 912E came back for about a year('75-'76), this time with the VW 2 liter engine that powered the last of the 914s.

[Doug Nye]

The little Steyr-Puch was simply wonderful. I did a road test on one for 'Sportscar' magazine in the '60s, and really regreted handing it back - but for one thing: if I hadn't, I would surely have killed myself in it. I wore out the tyres in a week as it was. Must have been my weight, not its... Four up spinning into the pub car park was quite something. Hey ho to be 19 again, and to survive.

They headed the test 'You Steyr, I'll Puch'.

DCN

[RS2000]

Zasada/Osinski, Rally of the Midnight Sun, 1964.

[sterling49]

Great picture, love the colour red! Looks like it just cannot go fast enough to yump.....it's high on its suspension and one front wheel looks as if it might just have a smidgen of daylight there.........


Sterling