Willi Cleer was a garagist at Frankfurt (Main) and appeared sporadically at some German races in the 20's. Most known is his 2nd place at the 1926 German Grand Prix with a private Alfa RLSS, but before that it seems he was works driver for Stoewer. Rather unknown are his appearances in a Bugatti T39A at the Nürburgring Eröffnungsrennen (18./19.6.1927) in the race car class, and 4 weeks later at the German Grand Prix (sports cars only).
Who knows more about the Bugatti? A rare bird, with only 9 built. Acc. to my files only 4 cars can be considered:
#4803, GP de l'ACF 1926 works car, delivered in Feb 1927 to the Paris showroom
#4804, also a GP de l'ACF 1926 works car, delivered in May 1927 to the Paris showroom
#4824, delivered in Feb 1927 to the Paris showroom
#4898, delivered somewhere in 1927 to the Paris showroom
Acc. to a photo taken at the opening race (Eifelrennen) the car was white, thus obviously no works entry, although the grandson of Cleer told me that his grandfather was Bugatti works and test driver.
Are there any other appearances of Cleer with the T39A? Or any other appearances of a German T39A at all?
Willi Cleer ? Bugatti T39A
Started by
Michael Müller
, Jul 26 2007 17:18
7 replies to this topic
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#2
Marc Ceulemans
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Posted 26 July 2007 - 18:52
According my records
Willy Cleer, from Frankfurt, raced for Stoewer until 1925 when he switched to an Alfa Romeo until 1926.
In 1927, he drove a Bugatti - 1100 - 1500 cc Racing car class - in those events in Germany:
24 May, Hohe Wurzel Bergrennen, 3rd in class.
26 May, Rund um den Neroberg, 1st in class
19 June, Eifelrennen.
17 July, German GP, 6th and 2nd in Class.
4 September, Krähbergrennen, entered, result unknown.
After, nothing...
Willy Cleer, from Frankfurt, raced for Stoewer until 1925 when he switched to an Alfa Romeo until 1926.
In 1927, he drove a Bugatti - 1100 - 1500 cc Racing car class - in those events in Germany:
24 May, Hohe Wurzel Bergrennen, 3rd in class.
26 May, Rund um den Neroberg, 1st in class
19 June, Eifelrennen.
17 July, German GP, 6th and 2nd in Class.
4 September, Krähbergrennen, entered, result unknown.
After, nothing...
#3
David McKinney
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Posted 26 July 2007 - 20:42
Fürst Albrecht zu Hohenlohe-Jagstberg allegedly had one at some stage in the 1920s (source probably Tragatsch)Originally posted by Michael Müller
Or any other appearances of a German T39A at all?
#4
Hans Etzrodt
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Posted 27 July 2007 - 23:28
According to Erwin Tragatsch, Willi Cleer as of 1927 had the only 1.5-liter 8-cylinder Type 39A supercharged with single ohc that was ever sold to Germany. With this car Cleer had several good results at hill climbs and came second in the 1927 German GP. After 1927 Cleer retired from racing.
#5
fines
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Posted 28 July 2007 - 12:31
Good question, I was asking this myself after leafing through a German oldtimer mag the other day. ("Hallo Michael, auch mal wieder im Oldtimer-Markt geschmökert?"
). In fact, I didn't think much of the article ("Cleer in a 39A? pphhh...") until I got home and saw I had the same info in my database. So, can we really be sure it was a 39A? Remember, this was the contemporary Bugatti "Formula 1", and the car wasn't even used that much by the factory itself!
). In fact, I didn't think much of the article ("Cleer in a 39A? pphhh...") until I got home and saw I had the same info in my database. So, can we really be sure it was a 39A? Remember, this was the contemporary Bugatti "Formula 1", and the car wasn't even used that much by the factory itself!
#6
Michael Müller
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Posted 28 July 2007 - 14:02
I was busy with the Cleer Bugatti already 1 or 2 years ago, but the actual article in "Oldtimer Markt" brought up the topic again. I always doubted that it was a T39A, but Tragatsch normally was well informed. The Bugatti files show no 39A being exported to Germany through Omnia (their agency), but these files only show the deliveries ex Molsheim. The sales by their Paris affiliate are kept in the dark.
The performance of Cleer with the Bugatti was not really impressing. As example here the times of the 1927 Wiesbaden hillclimb (Hohe Wurzel), all times are 3 runs added together:
Cleer was 3rd in the 1500 cc class with 7:59, beaten by the Swiss Dr. Karrer with a Bugatti T37A (6:31) and the German Fuld with a Mercedes 15/40/60 (6:47). Considering the 60 bhp of the Mercedes and the 85 bhp of the the T37A the result for a T39A with 120 bhp is disappointing.
One day later a circuit race (Around the Neroberg) was held, 12.5 kms, 8 laps for race cars, and 5 laps for sports cars. Cleer won his class (race cars 1.5 litre) with 79:06 (= 9:53 per lap average), but only because the faster Dr. Karrer with his T37A had to retire. G. Kimpel won the 1.5 litre sports car class with a T37A Bugatti in 46:49 which averages 9:22 per lap.
So in both races Willi Cleer with his T39A (?) was slower than his opponents with less powerful 4-cylinder Bugattis.
The performance of Cleer with the Bugatti was not really impressing. As example here the times of the 1927 Wiesbaden hillclimb (Hohe Wurzel), all times are 3 runs added together:
Cleer was 3rd in the 1500 cc class with 7:59, beaten by the Swiss Dr. Karrer with a Bugatti T37A (6:31) and the German Fuld with a Mercedes 15/40/60 (6:47). Considering the 60 bhp of the Mercedes and the 85 bhp of the the T37A the result for a T39A with 120 bhp is disappointing.
One day later a circuit race (Around the Neroberg) was held, 12.5 kms, 8 laps for race cars, and 5 laps for sports cars. Cleer won his class (race cars 1.5 litre) with 79:06 (= 9:53 per lap average), but only because the faster Dr. Karrer with his T37A had to retire. G. Kimpel won the 1.5 litre sports car class with a T37A Bugatti in 46:49 which averages 9:22 per lap.
So in both races Willi Cleer with his T39A (?) was slower than his opponents with less powerful 4-cylinder Bugattis.
#7
Michael Müller
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Posted 28 July 2007 - 14:24
Some time ago I made an analysis of the 1926 German GP lap by lap. Willi Cleer with his heavy Alfa Romeo RLSS finished 3rd, which may look impressive, but was only possible by crashes, retirements, and technical problems of competitors. However, Cleer drove constantly and without any problems, and in lap 9 and 10 he was even 2nd, only 2 1/2 minutes behind the leader, Carl Deilmann with his even heavy Austro-Daimler.
#8
robert dick
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Posted 30 July 2007 - 08:30
Cleer's #52 Bugatti (Nürburgring 1927) had the small/narrow radiator, beaded edge tires, small brake drums, and (as far as I can see on the "Oldtimer-Markt" photo) no supercharger blow-off hole.
The 39As had the larger "Targa" radiator, straight-side tires, and the famous hole in the bonnet. If it was a brandnew 1927 car, it should have larger brake drums.
Maybe Cleer's car (if it was a 1.5-litre eight) was an unblown type 39, one of the cars used in 1925 at Montlhéry (1.5-litre class of the 1925 Grand Prix de Tourisme - with "Tourisme" body) and at Monza (with GP body).
The 39As had the larger "Targa" radiator, straight-side tires, and the famous hole in the bonnet. If it was a brandnew 1927 car, it should have larger brake drums.
Maybe Cleer's car (if it was a 1.5-litre eight) was an unblown type 39, one of the cars used in 1925 at Montlhéry (1.5-litre class of the 1925 Grand Prix de Tourisme - with "Tourisme" body) and at Monza (with GP body).
