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Very well known to have been in the lake...


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#1 MCS

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 09:47

I was idly looking at the histories of some lightweight E Types the other day when I noticed...

"chassis EC1001 1965; sold to Wansborough; TT, Oulton Park, very well known to have been into the lake"

Mindful of the recent Keith Holland thread - which inevitably mentions his lake plunge at Mallory Park in 1971 - I was wondering what other instances we know of ?!

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#2 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 10:02

James Hunt at Oulton in Formula Ford in '69. Tony Dron lost it, James tried to avoid, flew over Tony's car and into the drink. Tony was worried as James' car was completely submerged, but James appeared covered in weed, unhurt and blagged a cigarette from the marshals, then telling Tony dirty jokes as the marshals retrieved the car and cleared up!

#3 ian senior

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 10:27

Originally posted by MCS
"chassis EC1001 1965; sold to Wansborough; TT, Oulton Park, very well known to have been into the lake"


Would tha be George Wansborough?

#4 MCS

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 10:33

Not sure Ian.

David, I think. George was the Gordon-Keeble chap, wasn't he?

#5 Doug Nye

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 10:35

Driver was David Wansborough - other immersions which spring to mind are of course Ascari and Paul Hawkins at Monaco - 1955 and 1965 - Mike Spence into Lake Pergusa at Enna, 1965 - or was it '64??? - which was pretty alarming due to the water snakes he understood to infest the lake - and of course the tragic case of Stu Howitt who drowned at Oulton Park, again if I recall correctly - rolling an Imp over the bank at Knicker Brook into the pond? That must have been just awful for everyone involved.

DCN

#6 MCS

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 10:43

Yes, Howitt is mentioned in Peter McFadyen's "Motor Racing at Oulton Park in the 1960s" book and there's a shot of him in his Imp at Lodge Corner taken the previous year (1967).

Above the picture though, there is an alarming photograph of John Scott-Davies' E-Type upside down in the shallow water on the outside of Knicker Brook - fortunately he was okay.

#7 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 10:54

Aussie lakes have claimed some victims over the years...

There's one listed in the 'ultimate price' thread, a young fellow who drowned at Warwick Farm while private practising a Vee, nobody out there with him. The same lake saw the immersion of Tony Oxley's Chevron B8 BMW during practice one day, but with no real harm done.

Oran Park's lake was handy when Ross Bond's Healey 3000 caught fire one day, IIRC. And there's the (to me) infamous occasion when this happened.

There are others mentioned on that page, which is a thread on a similar topic.

#8 Gav Astill

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 12:02

I seem to recollect a F5000 going swimming in about 1970/71 at Oulton. It was retrieved at the end of the meeting by fellow F5000 driver Fred Saunders (of Crossle-Rover 15F fame), who's day job was a deep sea diver.

Someone must remember who it was?

#9 Graham Gauld

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 13:25

There was also the occasion when Bruce Halford stone-skipped a Costin Lister-Jaguar across the lake only to sink in shallow water. Bruce stepped out wet but unscathed. Then there was the occasion when Bob Berry with his very fast Jaguar XK120 touched Irishman Joe Kelly's C type Jaguar at Knickerbrook. Berry managed to stop the car before it hit the water but Kelly's car went left and hit the BBC commentary box where I believe either Eric Tobbit or Neville Lloyd ( For modernists he was around long before the better known Neville Hay.) Said commentator was still waxing was the box shook and began to disintegrate. Kelly's C type did the same and I enclose my photo of what was left. For those interested that C type is now owned by Laguna Seca and Lime Rock historic organiser Steven Earle.

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#10 Gav Astill

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 15:18

Originally posted by MCS
I was idly looking at the histories of some lightweight E Types the other day when I noticed...

"chassis EC1001 1965; sold to Wansborough; TT, Oulton Park, very well known to have been into the lake"

Six colour pictures of this incident appear in Derek Lawson's Oulton Park book "Sun, Rain and even Snow"

#11 Gav Astill

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 15:29

Originally posted by Gav Astill
I seem to recollect a F5000 going swimming in about 1970/71 at Oulton. It was retrieved at the end of the meeting by fellow F5000 driver Fred Saunders (of Crossle-Rover 15F fame), who's day job was a deep sea diver.

Someone must remember who it was?

FMS (Faultly Memory Syndrome) I'm afraid. It was Mallory 28th March 1971, not Oulton, driver John Myerscough, car McLaren M10B

#12 Sharman

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 15:56

Graham
Joe Kelly not only demolished the commentary box he killed a marshal and seriously injured a doctor.
Ivor the driver also ended up in the lake in a Lotus, I remember a cartoon showing the tail fin of the car above water and a marshal shouting to Ivor who was swimming for it"look out sharks".
By the way have you got any picture of early TVRs racing?
John

#13 fuzzi

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 16:07

Car restorer Barrie Simpson went off at Knicker Brook (Oulton Park) and into the brook in a red Bugatti (with a preselector gearbox) during the 1971 VSCC Seaman Trophy meeting. The car finished on its side and was not too damaged when it was towed out. My (unreliable) memory says it was a Type 59 and had been owned by Frank Wall.

It was this meeting when Colin Crabbe won the Historic Seaman Trophy in his W125 Mercedes Benz. He drove a very good race too, new to the car and hounded by a lot of fast experts in ERAs. The site of the leaders coming down towards Knicker Brook on the first lap with Martin Morris trying to pass the Mercedes on the grass will live with me forever.

#14 Gerr

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 16:14

AJ Foyt drove a single-seater into a lake just yesterday....

http://msn.foxsports...r/story/7088096

#15 EcosseF1

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 16:45

Originally posted by Gerr
AJ Foyt drove a single-seater into a lake just yesterday....

http://msn.foxsports...r/story/7088096


72 and still hard as nails... :lol:

#16 FLB

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 17:52

Mo√ęt et Chandon heir Olivier de Chandon was drowned after crashing his car during a FAtlantic private test at Mid Ohio in March 1983.

http://www.motorspor...hp?db=ct&n=1966

#17 Graham Gauld

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 17:56

FLB : I think you will find CHandon lost his life at Moroso circuit near Palm Beach. He went off the road into one of the deep irrigation ditches which surround the track.

#18 David M. Kane

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 18:43

He was dating Christie Brinkley at the time, she apparently was quiet shaken by his death.

#19 FLB

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 19:17

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
FLB : I think you will find CHandon lost his life at Moroso circuit near Palm Beach. He went off the road into one of the deep irrigation ditches which surround the track.

You're absolutely right! :blush: For some reason, my wires got crossed with Patrick Jacquemart, who was killed at Mid Ohio two years earlier.

(Must review my reading skills...)

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#20 bradbury west

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 19:50

Originally posted by MCS
Not sure Ian.

David, I think. George was the Gordon-Keeble chap, wasn't he?


As far as I recall George was David's father.

The E type was retrieved from the lake, in practice for the TT, and sterling work by John Fellowes's mechanics at Ramsay Racing, saw it rendered fit for service next day. I think the term all-nighter came into play.

Roger Lund.

#21 Alan Cox

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 21:51

Roy Salvadori ended up in the Oulton lake with a Mk2 Jaguar. See the Davy Jones thread
http://forums.autosp...y=&pagenumber=1

#22 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 22:54

Originally posted by bradbury west


The E type was retrieved from the lake, in practice for the TT, and sterling work by John Fellowes's mechanics at Ramsay Racing, saw it rendered fit for service next day. I think the term all-nighter came into play.

Roger Lund.

Hi Roger, it was Mechanic in the singular, David did the internationals, brother did the clubbies. I wasn't there but I am told the car stunk to high heaven! -so I was told by one of my customers only last month who was there that day with his dad.

Andrew

#23 HistoricMustang

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 01:10

Let's not leave the stock car road racers out. :

Henry

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#24 Pikachu Racing

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 11:13

How about list of drivers that made it to Lake Lloyd at Daytona? The last one I recall happend in 91 or 93.

#25 FLB

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 14:02

Bruce McLaren's Cooper also went into a bit of the wet stuff when he crashed during practice for a Tasman event at Pukekohe in 1965. There's a picture of a rescue man who stripped to his underwear to retrieve it in Eoin Young's Bruce McLaren bio (picture no.16 in the 1995 PSL re-edition).

#26 Graham Gauld

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 16:22

To: Sharman
This has nothing to do with people throwing cars into water but to answer his comment at the end of his post dated August 3.

This is the earliest TVR pic I have. Taken Charterhall and showing Stan Hart - whose father was speedway rider Olly Hart - in his very early TVR.



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#27 Sharman

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 12:58

Graham,
Yes a TVR/Jomar, same trailing link chassis with a modified Ashley(?) body, what date would that be? Sometime 1956 I would think, Clmax engine or s/v Ford? I'm actually looking for the first fastbacks which were built at Ray Saidel's instigation commencing October 1957.
John

#28 Jim Thurman

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 17:01

Originally posted by Pikachu Racing
How about list of drivers that made it to Lake Lloyd at Daytona? The last one I recall happend in 91 or 93.


David Stacy in the Dash series race in 1994 (I had to look it up, though I remembered in was in that time frame, a Dash race and the driver's first name was Dave/David).

Tommy Irwin in one of the qualifying races in 1960.

I have no idea how many cars and drivers wound up in the lake in the infield at Lakewood.

Twinny, isn't this thread and the "Davy Jones' Locker" one good candidates for a merging?

#29 MCS

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 20:01

Originally posted by MCS
I was idly looking at the histories of some lightweight E Types the other day when I noticed...

"chassis EC1001 1965; sold to Wansborough; TT, Oulton Park, very well known to have been into the lake"


http://www.brianwats...ges/page_1.html

Well I never...

Some fantastic photos on this updated site by the way.

#30 fbarrett

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 20:49

Does Augie Pabst count? He once drove a rental car into a swimming pool...

Frank

#31 Mondiale M85S

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 21:02

Paul Eaton managed to submerge his Eurocar V6 at Mallory in 1999, he arrived for the next round with a periscope fitted to the roof................ :lol:

#32 MCS

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 21:04

Originally posted by Mondiale M85S
Paul Eaton managed to submerge his Eurocar V6 at Mallory in 1999, he arrived for the next round with a periscope fitted to the roof................ :lol:


Ha ha ha ha :clap: That's great.

#33 sterling49

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 21:25

I think Graham Hill went into the lake at Oulton in the Mk 11 Cortina Lotus. I know that a rally car went in completely on the 1971 R.A.C (From Harrogate It Started) but I am not sure if it was at Oulton or a stately home......I am working on the memory, it was an RS1600. The soundtrack I can remember "I can see for miles, and miles, and miles, and miles, and miles, and miles.............." Brilliant :up:

#34 Giraffe

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 22:04

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Driver was David Wansborough - other immersions which spring to mind are of course Ascari and Paul Hawkins at Monaco - 1955 and 1965 - Mike Spence into Lake Pergusa at Enna, 1965 - or was it '64??? - which was pretty alarming due to the water snakes he understood to infest the lake - and of course the tragic case of Stu Howitt who drowned at Oulton Park, again if I recall correctly - rolling an Imp over the bank at Knicker Brook into the pond? That must have been just awful for everyone involved.

DCN


The first meeting I ever attended (and marshalled at) was at Aintree the day before my 14th birthday, 18th May, 1968. I was a race runner there, and Stu Howitt got me and my mate to distribute flyers for his entrant, Pit-Stop Garages in the carpark in-between duties for ten bob! A month later, he was dead, which was pretty scary for a race newbie.
I didn't attend the meeting at which he lost his life, but at the September meeting the St.John's Ambulance guy who had tried to save him told me that the issue was they couldn't get a tube to lungs as he had (contrary to prevailing rules) swallowed his dentures in the accident.

#35 Ian Smith - Diz

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 23:00

I recall being soaking wet and huddled round a transistor radio, at Oulton Park, in 1966 while there was an enormous delay in the days racing.
My fellow marshals and I were listening to the football World Cup.
The delay to procedings was an MG in the lake that the C of C had decided to retrieve there and then. The driver - whose name is unknown to me forty odd years on - was well out of the car.
The other regular C of C - had he been on duty - would have left the car submerged until the end of the meeting and I'd have missed the footy.
For those who don't know, England beat Germany. :up:

#36 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 02:54

I seem to remember that Wayne Negus put an L34 into the dam at Sandown in the mid 70s.
While not quite a dam, the mud and water off the track just below the old start line at Winton almost qualified. After some heavy rain it was about 200mm deep and it stunk. There has been a lot of people in there including myself, who was joined by another competitor during qualifying in the mid 90s. And It is still the same.

#37 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 03:28

From memory, Wayne's car (actually Bob Forbes' car) was dangling over the precipice, but it didn't go in...

Similar to the way the Baillie Galaxie, driven by Davo, clung to life back in '64. But I think Wayne went a little further... there are pictures.

#38 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 04:21

It did go in, the back was hanging out showing the illegal panhard bar. I have the pic somewhere, have just found a picture of Brock and Mr and Mrs Grice watching Wayne Negus dig himself out of the dam. I thought it was Bob Forbes car.

#39 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 04:23

Elrosso may have the pic.

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#40 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 04:44

The pics in RCN show the car wrapped up in a tree, most if it is visible and none is in water... but the caption says that the tree stopped it from becoming 'completely immersed'...

In fact, the water is not visible in the pics as published. Would like to see more.

#41 Glengavel

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 07:32

Didn't Louise Aitken-Walker and her co-driver end up in a lake (or a river?) after falling off a mountain? IIRC they had to kick out the rear window to get out.

And Craig Breedlove ended up in a lake at Bonneville during an LSR attempt, leaving the world's longest skid-marks (cough) in the process...

#42 alansart

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 08:07

Originally posted by sterling49
I think Graham Hill went into the lake at Oulton in the Mk 11 Cortina Lotus.


Amost! It's at the end of this :)



#43 terry mcgrath

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 14:35

Pukekhoe NZ has a drainage ditch/river or whatever running clost to the track and I have a pic of an XK120 park halfway up in the water and at the next meeting a ferrari owner not wanting to let jaguar get the upper hand parked his 246 Dino in the water.
If it was easy I would post photos below to give you an idea! what an XK120 and Dino ferrari look like up to there doorhandles in water.

With regards to cars crashing in water Bill Mayes had been drowned (together with co-driver Les Slaughter) after their MG TF crashed into a creek between Grafton and Glen Innes Australia during the 7,000 mile Ampol Trial of 1956. The coroner found if they hadn't both landed in the water face down and drowned whilst shocked there other injuries from the crash wouldn't have been fatal
terry

#44 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 21:25

Originally posted by terry mcgrath
.....If it was easy I would post photos below to give you an idea! what an XK120 and Dino ferrari look like up to there doorhandles in water.

With regards to cars crashing in water, Bill Mayes had been drowned (together with co-driver Les Slaughter) after their MG TF crashed into a creek between Grafton and Glen Innes Australia during the 7,000 mile Ampol Trial of 1956. The coroner found if they hadn't both landed in the water face down and drowned whilst shocked there other injuries from the crash wouldn't have been fatal
terry


It is easy, Terry... just do it!

As for the TF crash, it's of great interest that this supposedly fragile car was running in (and most likely to finish) second when it crashed in the closing stages. I heard at the time that it was only a few inches of water into which they crashed and that they were basically unhurt otherwise.

#45 terry mcgrath

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:46

Originally posted by Ray Bell


It is easy, Terry... just do it!

As for the TF crash, it's of great interest that this supposedly fragile car was running in (and most likely to finish) second when it crashed in the closing stages. I heard at the time that it was only a few inches of water into which they crashed and that they were basically unhurt otherwise.


A pain in the proverbial it should be possible to post pic straight to this form from your computer

http://img223.images...nkarnonp.th.tif


I presume this will direct people elsewhereto look at pic goodness knows how you get the pic to appear here
terry

#46 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 12:33

You're getting there, Terry...

For the Ferrari, go to the line further down the Imageshack page, it's marked 'Hotlink for forums (1)'... that gets the whole pic up there.

#47 MCS

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 15:42

Well done Terry!!

At least the driver kept his feet dry then...

#48 elansprint72

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 15:43

Originally posted by sterling49
I think Graham Hill went into the lake at Oulton in the Mk 11 Cortina Lotus. I know that a rally car went in completely on the 1971 R.A.C (From Harrogate It Started) but I am not sure if it was at Oulton or a stately home......I am working on the memory, it was an RS1600. The soundtrack I can remember "I can see for miles, and miles, and miles, and miles, and miles, and miles.............." Brilliant :up:


Film here shows Graham cornering on four, three and then just the rear two wheels! Into the lake he goes! :rotfl:



#49 sterling49

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 15:57

Great days of saloon racing, the tracks looked so much better then also, Hill certainly drove the Cortina well, I saw him at Brands Hatch driving it. I would love to see a race from this era again :up:

The Red Lotus at the end of the film, Willy Kay?


Thanks for posting link.

#50 Kevan

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 19:21

Originally posted by Glengavel
Didn't Louise Aitken-Walker and her co-driver end up in a lake (or a river?) after falling off a mountain? IIRC they had to kick out the rear window to get out.


It was Portugal in 1990...The co-driver was Tina Thorner.

Film and brief interview here: