36 replies to this topic

[GT Dreams]

Hello,
Do you think these two cars are formula 1
Ferrari, but which type ?


Seems to be a Williams, perhaps a F3000


Thanks in advance for your help.

[Roly]

Hi,

These cars look like F300 cars, I don't know which though, painted in Ferrari and Williams colors.
But they are not F1 cars.

[RA Historian]

I would say that the red car is a March, circa 1986 or 1987. Looks like the F-3000/ARS chassis.

[David M. Kane]

The top car might even be a Formula Holden.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
The top car might even be a Formula Holden.

Seeing as both pics are taken at the same place, I'd say not...

The lower car has a DFV or very similar, there's nothing in Australia in a car like that. Or at least to my knowledge. Perhaps the top car has a Rover engine or something?

[macoran]

The Ferrari decals on what is NOT a Ferrari leads me to think ...
Driving school cars ?....made to look like ?

Plus the fact that if the "Ferrari" had been an F3000, the DFV has gone bang
and has been replaced with something else..... unless the stuf on the intakes
is an inlet silencer....it also seems to have a sort of exhaust silencer.

[Mark A]

The 'lump' next to the cockpit on the 'Williams' is a bit strange. Looks like a Judd engine in the back though.


Where/when were the pics taken?

[GT Dreams]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Seeing as both pics are taken at the same place, I'd say not...

The lower car has a DFV or very similar, there's nothing in Australia in a car like that. Or at least to my knowledge. Perhaps the top car has a Rover engine or something?

Yes the second car has a Ford Cosworth engine


For the first one, I've only this view

[GT Dreams]

Originally posted by Mark A
The 'lump' next to the cockpit on the 'Williams' is a bit strange. Looks like a Judd engine in the back though.


Where/when were the pics taken?

Begin of June on the Val de Vienne circuit in France.

[macoran]

Originally posted by Mark A
The 'lump' next to the cockpit on the 'Williams' is a bit strange.

rearward facing wide angle camera to film racing lines of the "pupil driver" ?

So the instructor has a DFV and the pupil has the odd looking single-point injection stuff ?

Just brainstorming, don't pay any attention to me, just trying to recall what I saw at Ledenon
years ago.

Oddly enough the Val de Vienne école de pilotage only uses F Campus cars IIRC.

[LB]

well it moves :s

[macoran]

Originally posted by LB


well it moves :s

Where and how did you find that ?

Looks like it was sent out chasing a Dallara 188 ?

[LB]

Originally posted by macoran


Where and how did you find that ?

Looks like it was sent out chasing a Dallara 188 ?

I just put Val de Vienne and F3000 into the google search engine and it linked to that straight away. All the other informationI found was in French, and my french is very very rusty but it seems they do a F1 experience type thing and this is it.

[KWSN - DSM]

But neither pictured car is a F1.

However the one he follows may be.

What was the occasion? There are a lot of spectators, more than the GP Of Bahrain as far as I can see.

[antonvrs]

I don't know what the engine in the top photo is but it's running a Holley "double pumper 4 barrel carburettor on some kind of plenum manifold.
Anton

[petefenelon]

As previously stated, the 'Ferrari' is a March 85B.

The 'Williams' is a Lola F3000, I think, from '87.

I once saw an Alfa V6 with an induction system that looks a bit like the 'Ferrari'. (I think in a Reynard that was used for sprinting, about 15 years ago!)

[Stephen W]

The red car is most definately a March 85B F3000 car and I would guess that the engine is a Rover 3.5 litre V8.

The one pretending to be a Williams is a bit trickier and certainly has a look of a F3000 car, possibly a Reynard?

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by antonvrs
I don't know what the engine in the top photo is but it's running a Holley "double pumper 4 barrel carburettor on some kind of plenum manifold.
Anton

Agree, looks like a Holley to me as well. Maybe an ARS/Indy Lights spec Buick ?
The early ARS (American Racing Series) spec-chassis was a 1985 March F3000 with such en engine in the back. Paul Tracy was probably the most famous driver produced by this series at the time.

[GT Dreams]

Originally posted by macoran


Where and how did you find that ?

Looks like it was sent out chasing a Dallara 188 ?

Yes this Dallara BMS-F188 Scuderia Italia


Some others Formula one cars where also on the track at the same time:
March 701


Matra-Simca MS 120B


Tyrrell-Ford 025


and this two seaters Arrows Cosworth

[RTH]

Originally posted by petefenelon
As previously stated, the 'Ferrari' is a March 85B.

The 'Williams' is a Lola F3000, I think, from '87.

Agreed

[f1steveuk]

Originally posted by GT Dreams



For the first one, I've only this view

If I had fitted an OBC camera like that at FOM, Bernie would have had me taken outside and shot!

[macoran]

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
But neither pictured car is a F1.

However the one he follows may be.

What was the occasion? There are a lot of spectators, more than the GP Of Bahrain as far as I can see.

Seems like the occasion was called F2007 Le Vigeant in the clip LB posted.

[tobbe j]

Is there any that know who the driver in Tyrrell 025 is? And is it any that know which 025 it's?

[Gary C]

could be anyone. Might even be me!

[tobbe j]

I have seen the helmet in the car before
It was worth a attempt, in my hunting on the Tyrrell cars.

[xbgs351]

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks


Agree, looks like a Holley to me as well. Maybe an ARS/Indy Lights spec Buick ?
The early ARS (American Racing Series) spec-chassis was a 1985 March F3000 with such en engine in the back. Paul Tracy was probably the most famous driver produced by this series at the time.

I asked what the engine was on youtube and here was the answer: "It's a Ferrari 328. 3,2 litres, 8 cylinders."

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by xbgs351


I asked what the engine was on youtube and here was the answer: "It's a Ferrari 328. 3,2 litres, 8 cylinders."

...with a Holly on top.... the mind boggles!

[philippe7]

Originally posted by tobbe j
Is there any that know who the driver in Tyrrell 025 is? And is it any that know which 025 it's?

I went to various promotional or charity trackdays at Le Vigeant when I was living close by, until late 2006, this Tyrrell was a regular and from what I gathered from the speaker's commentaries I suspect the driver is a "local" collector . I'm afraid his name doesn't come back to me right now, but in terms of lap times and "apparent" skill he was head and shoulders above all the other car/drivers combinations than ran with him - including the Ferrari "Corsa Clienti" drivers who sometimes graced Le Vigeant with their F1's .....

[Peter Morley]

The red car is a March 86A and has a carburetted Ferrari 328 engine fitted.

Chassis number 86A - 30

The 86A was built for the American Racing Series - that would become Indylight.

I think the Ferrari engine was fitted in America (hence the Holley carb) before it moved to Belgium, where I saw it last year, it has since moved on.

As for the F3000 car I saw a similar car for sale a year or so ago, an F3000 painted to look like a Williams which it does a pretty good job of.

[picblanc]

Originally posted by philippe7


I went to various promotional or charity trackdays at Le Vigeant when I was living close by, until late 2006, this Tyrrell was a regular and from what I gathered from the speaker's commentaries I suspect the driver is a "local" collector . I'm afraid his name doesn't come back to me right now, but in terms of lap times and "apparent" skill he was head and shoulders above all the other car/drivers combinations than ran with him - including the Ferrari "Corsa Clienti" drivers who sometimes graced Le Vigeant with their F1's .....

That video brought back some good memories, I was there last April 06, when Motorcycles and Sidecars were there testing for a week, a good friend has a house nearby, great photos, like the March 701

The guy driving the Matra.. I hope he never turns it over!!

[GT Dreams]

Originally posted by petefenelon
As previously stated, the 'Ferrari' is a March 85B.

The 'Williams' is a Lola F3000, I think, from '87.

I once saw an Alfa V6 with an induction system that looks a bit like the 'Ferrari'. (I think in a Reynard that was used for sprinting, about 15 years ago!)

Finally, I've the confirmation that the 'Williams' isn't a Lola F3000 (source Lola Heritage Forum).

[tobbe j]

Originally posted by philippe7


I went to various promotional or charity trackdays at Le Vigeant when I was living close by, until late 2006, this Tyrrell was a regular and from what I gathered from the speaker's commentaries I suspect the driver is a "local" collector . I'm afraid his name doesn't come back to me right now, but in terms of lap times and "apparent" skill he was head and shoulders above all the other car/drivers combinations than ran with him - including the Ferrari "Corsa Clienti" drivers who sometimes graced Le Vigeant with their F1's .....

Thank you Philippe
Now I know at least which part of world it is in.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by GT Dreams

Finally, I've the confirmation that the 'Williams' isn't a Lola F3000 (source Lola Heritage Forum).

Contradicting myself, I think you and the Lola guys are right. It looks more like a March 88B (look at the 88B pic on Marchives.com and compare the sidepods, shape of nose, and wing support).

[GT Dreams]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Contradicting myself, I think you and the Lola guys are right. It looks more like a March 88B (look at the 88B pic on Marchives.com and compare the sidepods, shape of nose, and wing support).

petefenelon, I think this time you are right

[ghinzani]

2nd Williams car is defo a March 87b or 88b, not mistaking those beauties. Bit tight in the cockpit though for corporate work, you wonder hoe Weidler fitted in the 88b, although the 87b was built around Modena so even more restricted.

[Stephen W]

Both of the original cars are March F3000 chassis.

[brabhamBT19]

well it moves :s

OT, but this are horrible lines, horrible it is painfull to watch

sorry for OT it had to be said