229 replies to this topic

[crono33]

i only rode on the X5 a couple times, but i clearly remember watching in disbelief the tiny trunk, which is ridicolously small for such a large car. any station wagon has a lot more usable space.

i rode on a few more SUV but most european ones have less space inside than a decent sedan.

Originally posted by Canuck


From a family perspective - I have two kids, a wife and a dog that weighs more than my wife or both of my kids combined. We do a little bit of travelling in the car and some camping every summer. Even with the Passat wagon, things are cramped - I can't imagine travelling in a sedan. My wife would happily drive an X5 if it weren't for the price tag and fuel consumption because, as has been noted, it has a better view and it still fits the very real needs we have as a family with pets. [/B]

[imaginesix]

I don't know what any of this discussion has to do with anything at all any more, but I noticed the other day that Toyota's cute-ute, the Rav4, runs on 18 inch wheels now. Is it just me or is that regoddamdiculous!

[Canuck]

Originally posted by crono33
i only rode on the X5 a couple times, but i clearly remember watching in disbelief the tiny trunk, which is ridicolously small for such a large car. any station wagon has a lot more usable space.

i rode on a few more SUV but most european ones have less space inside than a decent sedan.

This may be true, but it's not legal to put your kids or your pets in the trunk of a sedan whereas the dog can travel in what passes for luggage space in the X5.

[Canuck]

Originally posted by Greg Locock
A few years back we developed, and still make, an X5 clone

Is that the Territory? Is it strictly an Aus model or is there a NA version of that too?

[McGuire]

Far as I know that vehicle is strictly AU market; I know for sure it is NA in NA and I don't expect any change as it is a poor fit with Ford's current North American strategy. Looks like a Freestyle but larger, is based on their Falcon platform. However... several years ago I used to see one bopping up and down Oakwood Avenue in Dearborn, near Ford HQ and the DDC. Seemed to get the spy photographers excited, guess they didn't notice the RHD.

Tall Car/soft crossover-type vehicles are very important to the American OEs, Ford in particular. They are key to the strategy of weaning both themselves and their customers off trucks and SUVs, and into a sustainable product mix and growing back market share. The Ford Flex coming in mid-2008 is a critical product, and Ford says its product realignment will be complete by MY2010.

Chrysler is really hurting too with 66-75% of its sales in SUV/truck (depending how you count). They have a new minivan that is solid but that is a shrinking category, losing sales to crossovers. Of course the road back includes building plain old cars better. GM is really, REALLY high on the new Malibu due out momentarily. Last week I was talking to a very big suit at GM who is convinced the car is not just as good as, but clearly superior to Camry and Accord. I guess we will see if the buyers think so.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Canuck

This may be true, but it's not legal to put your kids or your pets in the trunk of a sedan whereas the dog can travel in what passes for luggage space in the X5.

What about the wife?

[imaginesix]

Originally posted by McGuire
GM is really, REALLY high on the new Malibu due out momentarily. Last week I was talking to a very big suit at GM who is convinced the car is not just as good as, but clearly superior to Camry and Accord. I guess we will see if the buyers think so.

It won't outsell Camry or Accord, if that's what you mean. Understandably, it takes time to change public perception. The guy sitting at the desk right next to me just bought a new Hyundai, wouldn't even consider a NA brand. Silly, but there you have it.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by imaginesix
It won't outsell Camry or Accord, if that's what you mean. Understandably, it takes time to change public perception. The guy sitting at the desk right next to me just bought a new Hyundai, wouldn't even consider a NA brand. Silly, but there you have it.

Hyundai has a big problem at the moment... or more precisely, a few of its key people have a problem. At the moment it looks like they are going to miss their 2007 North American sales target by about 20%. Oooops. Hyundai sales were undoubtedly harder hit than most by the collapse of the subprime credit market, but mainly they just flat missed the boat. Heads are going to roll over that one, there is just no other way.

All that is only relevant to the domestic manufacturers in this way... as Detroit finds its way back the Hyundais, Nissans and VWs of the world will have to take the hit in sales first, before it starts to make a real dent in the Toyota and Honda numbers, which is a point somewhere further down the road.

But will the new Malibu outsell the Camry and Accord? Not sure that is a realistic expectation as of today, but here they have to aim their product at the market leaders. What is the alternative? Build the same old crap and move what they can? No, this is one of the critical market segments and they must bring their A game. Here I will agree 100% with Todd that Detroit has to throw down and fight this one out, whatever it takes.

[Todd]

Originally posted by imaginesix
It won't outsell Camry or Accord, if that's what you mean. Understandably, it takes time to change public perception. The guy sitting at the desk right next to me just bought a new Hyundai, wouldn't even consider a NA brand. Silly, but there you have it.

I wouln't buy a Hyundai either, but not buying an NA brand is often a learned behavior. If you get burned, you don't feel like going back. Some people have now simply grown up with imported name brands and feel comfortable with them, but there are also plenty of people around who learned the hard way. Even people who still buy American serve as object lessons to those of us who don't. I talked to a guy who had a low mileage, pristine 5 year old Cadillac DeVille Concours. His father was offered $8,000 when he took it in to trade it on a new one. You've got to be one cheeky bastard to try selling someone a $60,000 car while telling him his last one depreciated $1.50 for every pampered mile that he drove it.

Many of my friends are now turning in their BMWs for new cars, and their BMW experiences have been bad enough that they are looking elsewhere, but only one of them even wanted to hear about American options. He made it as far as a test drive, but the dealer experience combined with the inferiority of the product saw him wind up in a Toyota, to go with another friend who traded his 325Xi on an IS250, my 325 went for a Civic Si, my father's 325is went for an Acura, and my remaining BMW driving friend almost bought a GTi this weekend. Turns out that VW dealers can be as bad as any on the planet. They negotiated a deal that was attractive, put through his financing, and then told him they'd sold the car he had test driven and he could have one he didn't want for about $4K more than had been discussed. I know plenty of people who say they would drive Corvettes if they had the budget for two expensive cars, but there doesn't seem to be any carryover of the respect felt for the Corvette onto other GM cars. GM might have a window to take back some sales from the now-shoddy Camry and soon to be hideously ugly Accord, but I don't think they're even on the radars of their target customers anymore.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Todd


I wouln't buy a Hyundai either, but not buying an NA brand is often a learned behavior. If you get burned, you don't feel like going back. Some people have now simply grown up with imported name brands and feel comfortable with them, but there are also plenty of people around who learned the hard way. Even people who still buy American serve as object lessons to those of us who don't. I talked to a guy who had a low mileage, pristine 5 year old Cadillac DeVille Concours. His father was offered $8,000 when he took it in to trade it on a new one. You've got to be one cheeky bastard to try selling someone a $60,000 car while telling him his last one depreciated $1.50 for every pampered mile that he drove it.

Sorry, what is your point? Do you think it is news to Cadillac that poor residual is a major sales problem? Or did you just learn about it?

[phantom II]

A 02 Deville started at $36 000 and even the 08 DTS can be driven off the lot for not much more than that. It can be dressed up to nearly $60 000 but nobody in their right mind would pay that for it. The best value in luxury cars. Take a new DTS for a test drive, you can't imagine driving a better luxury car. There are plenty cars with higher %tage drop in value after 5 years. BMW 7 series, MB S class, Audi A8, Porsche Turbo, Infiniti Q50, etc. Caddilac equals Lexus LS in the first two years. With a design change such as your freinds Deville, all cars suffer the same fate. A Vette has an excellent resale value, yet I was shocked when I traded my 03 Z06 for a 06 Z06. The STS and the CTS out performs their competition in every catergory except sales. The 08 CTS and STS is expected to even do that like it does in China. Im hoping to put my wife in one of them soon if I can get her out of the 02 Olds V8, an absolutely fantastic car.

Originally posted by Todd


I talked to a guy who had a low mileage, pristine 5 year old Cadillac DeVille Concours. His father was offered $8,000 when he took it in to trade it on a new one. You've got to be one cheeky bastard to try selling someone a $60,000 car while telling him his last one depreciated $1.50 for every pampered mile that he drove it.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by phantom II
The best value in luxury cars. Take a new DTS for a test drive, you can't imagine driving a better luxury car.

DTS rules. I have gone through two, red w/o sunroof and black w sunroof, satellite radio. There is no finer car for the American highway, no car with a better ride overall. Does not handle as well but goes down the road better than an S class, by far... still the typical German pavement pounder. I can drive 1000 miles a day (it's a bragging point -- used to be able to do it on a motorcycle but I am too old for that anymore) and the DTS is about the only car I would actually enjoy it in.

I have a Buick as a daily driver right now, but that is only because the deal was too cheap to walk away, practically free. (I buy them brass hat or off-lease etc and drive them until the odometer falls out. I ride cheap.) The Buick is a good car but it's no DTS.

[Todd]

Originally posted by phantom II
A 02 Deville started at $36 000 and even the 08 DTS can be driven off the lot for not much more than that. It can be dressed up to nearly $60 000 but nobody in their right mind would pay that for it. The best value in luxury cars. Take a new DTS for a test drive, you can't imagine driving a better luxury car. There are plenty cars with higher %tage drop in value after 5 years. BMW 7 series, MB S class, Audi A8, Porsche Turbo, Infiniti Q50, etc. Caddilac equals Lexus LS in the first two years. With a design change such as your freinds Deville, all cars suffer the same fate. A Vette has an excellent resale value, yet I was shocked when I traded my 03 Z06 for a 06 Z06. The STS and the CTS out performs their competition in every catergory except sales. The 08 CTS and STS is expected to even do that like it does in China. Im hoping to put my wife in one of them soon if I can get her out of the 02 Olds V8, an absolutely fantastic car.

The 2002 DTS had a base price of $47,880. I looked at some Cadillacs two years ago, and I was amazed at their prices. This was during 'employee pricing,' and the dealer had all the invoices posted. I realize that invoices don't have anything to do with what dealers pay for cars, but these invoices said that CTS V6 models cost dealers more than BMW 330i models cost customers at the time. Cadillac was advertising the CTS at about 30k, but the automatic was part of a 'touring package' that cost over 10K. It came with all sorts of luxury equipment and the now-standard 3.6 liter engine, but a CTS in the 40s wasn't an attractive value proposition. I see the DTS actually costs less today than it did 6 years ago, but it also comes with less. Interesting approach to image marketing.

[Todd]

Originally posted by McGuire


Sorry, what is your point? Do you think it is news to Cadillac that poor residual is a major sales problem? Or did you just learn about it?

I worked for a car dealer when I was in college. There are ways to show somebody that the car they bought from you last time is still worth something, if only on paper. Besides, all the more reason for them to buy from you again, if you're telling them their auction bound POS is worth 60% more than the dealer down the street is.

[phantom II]

You are starting to argue like a liberal which is like a girl. I notice that you are agreeing with McGuire far too much for my liking.
You mentioned that your friend had a Deville. The DTS was the high line version of the Deville at that time. The face lifted car dropped the Deville name in favor of DTS. God only knows why. You can get a cheap one or an expensive one. GM cars have always had traditional names, especially Cadillac. Somebody in Belgium communist must have forced them to go Euro to appease Democrats, I bet. Just what in the hell is this world coming to? The CTS has a 6 speed auto or manual now and you get much more than BMW or Mercedes. Heck, even the floor mats are extra on those Hun wagons..

Originally posted by Todd


The 2002 DTS had a base price of $47,880. I looked at some Cadillacs two years ago, and I was amazed at their prices. This was during 'employee pricing,' and the dealer had all the invoices posted. I realize that invoices don't have anything to do with what dealers pay for cars, but these invoices said that CTS V6 models cost dealers more than BMW 330i models cost customers at the time. Cadillac was advertising the CTS at about 30k, but the automatic was part of a 'touring package' that cost over 10K. It came with all sorts of luxury equipment and the now-standard 3.6 liter engine, but a CTS in the 40s wasn't an attractive value proposition. I see the DTS actually costs less today than it did 6 years ago, but it also comes with less. Interesting approach to image marketing.

[Todd]

Originally posted by phantom II
You are starting to argue like a liberal which is like a girl. I notice that you are agreeing with McGuire far too much for my liking.

You seem to be projecting. You're the one having a big three mediocrity lovefest with McGuire.

[scooperman]

this gets my vote for Best Thread Ever. Well, except for that other one.

on topic, I gotta think that idle stopping could be bad for crank bearings.

now back to off topic stuff. One, I got me an eff oh are dee F-250 as my company truck. My number crunch said the diesel was too much for my needs, so I went with the smallblock. I still wanted to tow a trailer a couple times a year, so I wanted the higher final drive. Sorry, no dealer inventory within 1500 miles of Florida. Its just a $50 option, but dealer can't do the installation, it must be ordered from the factory. That's Ford logic. Two, my wife dedided that two pickups weren't needed . The monsters are quickly turning into teenagers, so we still need a vehicle big enough for kids and kid crap, so she traded her truck in on a Dodge Hemi Magnum. Great car, now that's my idea of a SUV. This is one of those cars that just sort of looks right, a nice change from all the bubblemobiles. Three, during four days in Ireland, including two in Dublin, we never heard one car horn, and had no problems as clueless pedestrians. Four, roundabouts in England...as you approach a town the signs give you the same information that is on your maps, but then when you get into the town, suddenly the signs have local information, you get into the roundabout and drive around desperately searching for the turnoff that will allow you to continue on to your destination but the signs don't say anything useful, and now the other drivers are hurling epithets. Five, automotive ignition systems could and should include cell phone jammers.

[Greg Locock]

How long do you think a rear axle swap would take on a truck?

I'm guessing 3 hours, say 300 bucks. Then you've got to ship the parts around.

Yes, I think I can see why it's not a dealer fit.

Are you telling me the dealer can't order a specific build from the factory? That's odd.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by scooperman

on topic, I gotta think that idle stopping could be bad for crank bearings.

Back in the day before decent dimensional control it would be.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Todd


You seem to be projecting. You're the one having a big three mediocrity lovefest with McGuire.

The domestic manufacturers do build some mediocre cars, and some good cars, and some great cars. Just like the rest of the manufacturers.

The Detroit-bashing really gets old. I saw a sticker on a welding helmet the other day that reminded me of you. It said: "Too bad those who know everything can't do anything."

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Todd


I worked for a car dealer when I was in college. There are ways to show somebody that the car they bought from you last time is still worth something, if only on paper. Besides, all the more reason for them to buy from you again, if you're telling them their auction bound POS is worth 60% more than the dealer down the street is.

Only the plaid jacket guys pull that. First, everyone in the world already knows that joke. Second, anyone who got through fourth-grade arithmetic can see it on the purchase invoice.

How the professionals do it: If the customer doesn't already have a pretty good idea what his car is worth when he walks in the door, you get out the NADA yellow book and show him what it is worth in black and white. From there you can make adjustments from the TIV to the PP, say if the buyer needs a bigger downstroke to qualify, but that is with the knowledge of both the buyer and lender. Actually, the technical term for what you are describing is Fraud.

[scooperman]

Are you telling me the dealer can't order a specific build from the factory? That's odd.

No no, not what I meant, sorry. It's just the way things are today, everything has become so complicated. My question was, how long would it take for a diff, or a whole new rear axle to arrive from the factory? The explanation was that if the dealer installs the part, the vehicle has been changed from its factory configuration, so it is no longer the new vehicle which was covered by the factory warranty. Indeed, he did order a special build, it just took six weeks to arrive.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by scooperman


No no, not what I meant, sorry. It's just the way things are today, everything has become so complicated. My question was, how long would it take for a diff, or a whole new rear axle to arrive from the factory? The explanation was that if the dealer installs the part, the vehicle has been changed from its factory configuration, so it is no longer the new vehicle which was covered by the factory warranty. Indeed, he did order a special build, it just took six weeks to arrive.

I believe the dealer was bending the truth a bit. The real issue here IMO: If the dealer performs the ring-and-pinion swap inhouse, he has just burned off a good part of the markup on the sale. It's not that the swap would void your warranty or create an exclusion; it's that the factory is not paying for the swap under warranty -- which is the only way the dealer can recover the cost of in-service parts and labor. In the past there were workarounds for these option list issues upon NCD but just as you say, everything is more complicated today.

In the good/bad old days dealers could play off the cost to the factory for a job like that by submitting a warranty repair claim, but that was always a shady practice and now there are too many monitors and controls against such practices. (One, they constitute dealer fraud; and two, they totally screw up QC as now, every single part failure is tracked through the system and run to ground. The mfger's field service engineering people will want to SEE that "defective" ring and pinion. That is a pretty serious and uncharacteristic "failure.")

Or another way it was covered in the past -- the dealer could just bill the salesman for all/part of the work, but there isn't really enough commission left anymore for that sort of thing. And the cars are a ton more complicated too, so lot mods are a lot more expensive and difficult... back in the day, the lot boy could swap out a radio for a customer in ten minutes. Now it takes a high-priced technician an hour or more, and may involve a bunch of software and security issues to be straightened out as well.

EDIT: It occurs to me now that the dealer can well and truly say that he is forbidden by the factory to perform that ring and pinion swap as it constitutes an unauthorized modification. Changing gear ratio can produce lots of unintended and undocumented changes around the vehicle -- starting with speedo calibration, which would require burning code into the vehicle's PCM that is not authorized for that VIN.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by scooperman
The monsters are quickly turning into teenagers, so we still need a vehicle big enough for kids and kid crap, so she traded her truck in on a Dodge Hemi Magnum. Great car, now that's my idea of a SUV. This is one of those cars that just sort of looks right, a nice change from all the bubblemobiles.

That is indeed a great vehicle, great value too.

[imaginesix]

It's not just the part itself, there's all the paperwork and ID codes that change when something is ordered through the factory, plus computer calibrations. If you changed from say a 4:09 rear axle to 3:95 at the dealer, when you went in for service the records would always show the truck had the 4:09 axle and you could end up with wrong parts/service along the way.

The way I see it, re-spec'ing something brand new out of the factory is silly when you can just order it right the first time.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by imaginesix
It's not just the part itself, there's all the paperwork and ID codes that change when something is ordered through the factory, plus computer calibrations. If you changed from say a 4:09 rear axle to 3:95 at the dealer, when you went in for service the records would always show the truck had the 4:09 axle and you could end up with wrong parts/service along the way.

The way I see it, re-spec'ing something brand new out of the factory is silly when you can just order it right the first time.

And not only that... unless the technician performing the work happens to have a software line editor for that PCM family (which is hardly part of the official dealer tool kit eh) he can only load entire software calibrations en bloc. So it's likely the only way he can change the gear ratio info in the PCM is by loading a software package for an existing vehicle with the new gear ratio.... and a different VIN. So not only will the gear ratio will be discrepant the next time someone plugs into the PCM, the VIN will be discrepant too. (Either that or the PCM will simply block and refuse the recal.) That is a warranty nightmare and a huge potential liability for Mr. Selling Dealer. He was 110% smart in taking a pass on that swap and entirely in the service of the customer's interest, it would appear.

[Todd]

Originally posted by McGuire


Only the plaid jacket guys pull that. First, everyone in the world already knows that joke. Second, anyone who got through fourth-grade arithmetic can see it on the purchase invoice.

How the professionals do it: If the customer doesn't already have a pretty good idea what his car is worth when he walks in the door, you get out the NADA yellow book and show him what it is worth in black and white. From there you can make adjustments from the TIV to the PP, say if the buyer needs a bigger downstroke to qualify, but that is with the knowledge of both the buyer and lender. Actually, the technical term for what you are describing is Fraud.

A friend of mine is trying to unload his 2001 740i. Dealers within a mile or so of one another have offered him trade ins ranging from $7,500 to $11,500. It doesn't sound like practices have changed much. The price on the car whose dealer offered a $7,500 allowance was very competitive, while the price of one of the cars with a higher allowance turned out to be a bait and switch ploy. The dealer offered him a new GTi with a heavy equipment load for a price that seemed market improbable. He test drove it, went home, and returned to the dealer to buy it. Terms were discussed. Credit was checked. All that was left were the final signatures when they informed him that they'd sold the car in question, and that he could have a different one, but with numbers that were many thousands to the dealer's favor relative to the first. That seems far shadier than showing someone a huge trade in while not informing them that the last guy paid cash and got his car for less.

I like your definitive 'How the professionals do it' schtick. The dealership I worked for was **** central, a real systems house. Customers were tricked, bullied, financially raped. 18 years later, good luck finding a dealership in Virginia that doesn't have my former boss's name on the sign.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Todd



I like your definitive 'How the professionals do it' schtick. The dealership I worked for was **** central, a real systems house. Customers were tricked, bullied, financially raped. 18 years later, good luck finding a dealership in Virginia that doesn't have my former boss's name on the sign.

Sorry, that does not make any real sense. I haven't claimed that these tactics do not exist, or even flourish (on the east coast for example, where they are most entrenched) but you seem to be setting up for a set-point debate with me on the issue. So what is your point? That conversely, there are no professional or reputable dealer practices? That would be incredibly goddam stupid of you, don't you think? So what is the point of your argument? Just to argue for its own sake?

The fallacy of the false opposite is a regular practice of yours which I find childish and annoying -- often I have suspected that you are an especially argumentative 15 year-old, merely posing as an adult. Please knock it off and maybe we can have a pleasant conversation.

[Todd]

Originally posted by McGuire


Sorry, that does not make any real sense. I haven't claimed that these tactics do not exist, or even flourish (on the east coast for example, where they are most entrenched) but you seem to be setting up for a set-point debate with me on the issue. So what is your point? That conversely, there are no professional or reputable dealer practices? That would be incredibly goddam stupid of you, don't you think? So what is the point of your argument? Just to argue for its own sake?

The fallacy of the false opposite is a regular practice of yours which I find childish and annoying -- often I have suspected that you are an especially argumentative 15 year-old, merely posing as an adult. Please knock it off and maybe we can have a pleasant conversation.

If anything, things are much worse on the west coast, at least in terms of pricing and attitude. I know military guys who buy cars in other states they've been stationed in, including Virginia, after talking to a couple So Cal car dealers. They clearly care more about total profit per unit than sales volume.

When I recently bought my car, which I did in Virginia following experiences with San Diego car dealers, I just put it out to bid. There were only two options available, and all the dealers had cars in stock that met my specification. I emailed them what I wanted and asked for a total, bring the check already made out, price. Some dealers had no interest. Some sent incomplete pricing inspite of my carefully worded request. Some sent prices that were uncompetitive by three grand, and then followed up relentlessly as if being pushy would make me want to pay more for my car.

One salesman sent me what I asked for, and I headed to his dealership. By the time I could tell their greeter who I was there to see, I could see that the cars on their lot were padded with dealer installed accessories and adjusted market values. The salesman I'd emailed told me that he was the only one working for the dealer who didn't play the 'offer with a deposit and then we'll tell you what we really want for the car game.' His manager was almost out of patience for his direct approach. It turned out that the car I wanted on paper, a Civic EX with a manual transmission, wasn't much fun to drive. Then I test drove a Civic Si, and asked for a price on that. He offered me what would turn out to be a very competitive price, but then he soured it by saying that it was the end of the month, the price was only good right then, they were trying to hit some target...blah blah blah... The kickers was that it was about 5 o'clock. The dealership closed at 9:00, but he said the business staff was about to go home. I had to decide on spending about $3k more than I'd planned in the next couple minutes. This still seems unlikely to me. If they were trying to meet some goal, why wouldn't they continue selling cars until closing time?

Until that point, I had used my general treat others as I wish to be treated standard of conduct. After the tic-toc game, I shopped his price to another dealer, one who initially came in much too high but asked what it would take, then beat him by $500. I got a great deal on my car, but clearly systems house practices are still at work. Even the dealer I ultimately bought from wouldn't sell a car without all the dealer installed accessories and documentation preparation charges. They're right there on the paperwork, not to mention the accessories I didn't want being on the car, even if it meant showing a sale price well below invoice to get the total to what we discussed. Surely, the accessories cost something. Wouldn't they have been better off with them still in inventory? They even installed some of them while I was waiting to leave with my car. Were they worried that I would tell another customer that I bought one of their cars without mudflaps, wheel locks, and mystery sealants?

I've read articles about the plight of no-dicker sticker dealerships. Apparently, neighboring dealers will always beat their prices. Systems houses exist because they work. Few people buy enough cars to be as prepared for battle as the people who sell them every day. Those few will do fine. The rest of the herd will get taken hard enough to keep unscrupulous dealers growing in outlets. I'd like to think that there are ethical car dealers, but the ones I've dealt with in the past have been replaced by big chains that got that way by maximizing per unit profits.

[indigoid]

After 10 years of driving cars, generally without a passenger, I've switched to motorcycles. I'm covering about the same distance per week as I was in the car (sometimes a bit more), yet my bike uses so much less fuel that the money saved completely covers the repayments on its finance. It costs around 70AUD a month to insure (about 50AUD less than the car), goes faster, and looks cooler as well.

The car is an 1990 Toyota Celica GTFour (badged as "all-trac" in the USA), and in city driving it would use 10-11L/100km, which is better than your average large Australian car. 2.0L DOHC turbocharged engine, good for about 155kW. 0-100km/h in about 8.5 seconds if you're willing to risk expensive clutch and even more expensive gearbox by launching it hard. Doesn't like anything less than 98RON super-premium fuel.

The bike is a 2007 BMW F650GS Dakar. 652cc DOHC single-cylinder engine, dry sumped, liquid-cooled. Uses 3.6-4.3L/100km depending on rider discipline. BMW claims 0-100km/h in 5.5 seconds. Lots of suspension travel, quasi-offroad tyres in case I want to go exploring national parks, and two 37L aluminium panniers for luggage. Will run on just about any unleaded fuel you care to feed it. I've heard of people using sub-80RON garbage in very remote places, with no problems to speak of. Normally I use 91RON.

Bikes aren't all rosy, though. The rider apparel costs a small fortune, and it isn't optional. $10 helmets for $10 heads, as the saying goes, and I like to think the same applies for the rest of the body, so pants and jacket and gloves and boots and spine... Yet more if you want to ride comfortably in the cold and rain. Also the vast array of aftermarket bits at low prices is a trap... the sum of all the little bits ends up costing rather more than you'd previously imagined :-(

All in all, converting to the motorcycle religion is the best decision I ever made. It even cut my commute time.