
Books with fantastic photography
#1
Posted 27 August 2007 - 23:06
I'm planning to upgrade my book collection, now, despite being a total petrol head and reading a lot I found my motoring book collection to be really feeble! Lots of magazines but not enough nice books feeling my shelves. So I devised a cunning plan which mainly envolves spending a lot of money buying books!
Already been reading through the book thread but it will be a while before I can make it through the end, so meanwhile...
Can anybody make some recomendations for books with really fantastic, outstanding photography (and good layout/design), Formula 1 or Sports Cars related?
I would love to get some good books about Mille Miglia and the Targa Florio with great photography but they seem to be non-existent (or very hard to get). For example The Legendary Targa Florio: A Twentieth Century Story, seems to fail precisely on the photo department.
Here's some I've "whishlisted":
Driven: The Motorsport Photography of Jesse Alexander, 1954-1962
Ferrari by Mailander
Motor Racing: Reflections of a Lost Era
Autodrome: The lost race circuits of Europe
Please feel free to criticize!
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#2
Posted 27 August 2007 - 23:26
Vou escrever em português, afinal você é de Portugal, certo?
Estou no Brasil e aqui os livros europeus são muito caros. Tenho colecionado muitos ao longo desses últimos anos (quase 40... :yawn: ), e entre eles tem um que é meu preferido em fotos:
"GRAND PRIX FASCINATION FORMULA 1" do fotógrafo RAINER W.SCHLEGLMILCH.

São 400 páginas com fotos maravilhosas da Fórmula 1 desde 1969 até 1993.
Vale a pena ter em teu acervo.
Abraço,
Sergio Sultani.
#3
Posted 28 August 2007 - 00:01
Two more books I highly recommend for the quality of photography are Chris Nixon's "Auto Union Album 1934-39" and George Monkhouse's "Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix Racing 1934-55." Of course, all of the former and most of the latter are pre-Formula 1, but if you don't mind expanding your range back in time to pre-war Grand Prix racing, both books are fascinating.
And of course, if money is no object, there are about 55 years worth of Autocourse annuals out there...
#4
Posted 28 August 2007 - 00:32
I love the pre-war Mercedes and Auto-Unions, already have been reading about Chris Nixon's books on some car magazine reviews along the years to, Rivals: Lancia D50 and Mercedes-Benz W196 is wishlisted for ex.
Any more?

#5
Posted 28 August 2007 - 02:24
Sixties Motor Racing by Paul Parker using Michael Cooper-Evans photos and the just recently
released Weekend Heroes by Tony Adriaensens. Both will "waste" a lot
of your time and both are hard to read in bed because of their size.
Michael
#6
Posted 28 August 2007 - 06:16
#7
Posted 28 August 2007 - 06:47
#8
Posted 28 August 2007 - 07:23
Janos Wimpffen's three volumes:
"Open Roads and Front Engines"
"Winged Sportscars and Enduring Innovation"
"Spyders and Silhouettes"
Volume 4 to follow
Contain fantastic collections of photos from the world of sportscar racing.
Check website of David Bull Publishing.
#9
Posted 28 August 2007 - 08:17
Portrait de Courses by Darmendrail is a personal favorite.
#10
Posted 28 August 2007 - 12:58
Just for the record Sixties Motor Racing published by Palawan Press featured the pictures of Michael Cooper and was otherwise written by me. It certainly is heavy (6 kgs!)
Michael Cooper-Evans is another person altogether, who wrote two books on Rob Walker, one in the 1960s and one during the early 1990s aside from other titles.
Meanwhile if you are looking for good quality photo rich books I would recommend Ferrari by Mailander written by Karl Ludvigsen, published by Dalton Watson, that has a fantastic 1950s content and hundreds of pictures by Rudy Mailander from Karl's archive, many never or rarely seen.
The other is also a Ferrari book, Emotion Ferrari, Europe 1947-1972 published by Maurice Louche. There are many others and with the better quality repro of latter times the list is growing.
#11
Posted 28 August 2007 - 15:33
My apologies for that slip, I was working from memory.
I've edited the above post to correct this. Superb book!
Michael
#12
Posted 28 August 2007 - 16:37
#13
Posted 28 August 2007 - 21:12
This is not so well known to the casual punter but it is so good at capturing the almost casual nature of post war/1950s motor sport, also objective and is worth buying if you can find a copy.
In recent years Robert Edward's Archie Scott-Brown book was a good read too, ditto the Chris Nixon ouevre that are never dull and dry as some motor racing books can be, regardless of factual accuracy. I also enjoy DCN's many works, but especially the Tony Rudd book It was fun.
It all depends on what apppeals to one personally, if you like technical detail, background and insights into development then nobody is better than Karl Ludvigsen whose books are so well researched and cover such a wide and eclectic selection of just about everything including drivers.
Anyway I'm sure most already know this so let me throw in one little remembered and quite modest tome Climax in Coventry written by Wally Hassan with Graham Robson and published by MRP in 1975 (£5.25 in period) that I found to be most enjoyable and informative.
#14
Posted 28 August 2007 - 22:12
Quote
Originally posted by Paul Parker
Anyway I'm sure most already know this so let me throw in one little remembered and quite modest tome Climax in Coventry written by Wally Hassan with Graham Robson and published by MRP in 1975 (£5.25 in period) that I found to be most enjoyable and informative.
The Des Hamill Climax book acts as a useful follow on from that, I found, esp as a non-engineer.
Track Pass also works for me, also For Practice Only, plus recent US books, as it is a new area for me.
Roger Lund
BTW, Paul. much enjoyed your Palawan '60s book, as I did the DCN/Geoff Goddard Ferrari in Camera and Buckley's Facel work. It is always so very subjective listing stuff.
#15
Posted 29 August 2007 - 00:12
Unfurtunately some of those are out of my price range, although I understand how tempting they are I cannot consider myself a book collector, must stick to more "mainstream" offers. Whithin my budget constraints I'm considering books up to 75$ maximum.
Maybe if all goes well, I can splash on a really expensive one later so always nice to have these suggestions to check out (Weekend Heroes and Sixties Motor Racing do look amazing). I would also like to strike a balance between "pure" photography books and books that combine great photos with interesting texts as weel as 6kgs behemoths and more lightwheight tomes. Anyway I'm certainly checking out all the titles you mention.
Cheers all
#16
Posted 29 August 2007 - 08:57
It really was a privilege and my great good fortune to have such material to work with and I owe a great deal to Mike who had the faith to let me loose on his archive.
#17
Posted 29 August 2007 - 09:42
Quote
Originally posted by mcerqueira
Thank you so much for all the suggestions!
I would also like to strike a balance between "pure" photography books and books that combine great photos with interesting texts
Cheers all
It might help us if you mention any specific eras or types of racing in which you are interested. The other side of that though, is that by looking at topics "new" to you, you discover a new category and era which subsequently fascinate you. Recent books on US sports racers and roadsters, plus TNF's Australian and US photos threads have given me a new dimension, plus, elsewhere, Edwardian stuff from glass negatives, crystal clear usually, so it may be a more broad-church approach you follow.
Roger Lund.
#18
Posted 30 August 2007 - 08:23
Looking for recent discovery vintage pictures? and about Targa Florio (Elisabeth Junek)...????
Modestly.......try my new coming book: "Femmes pilotes de course auto - 1888-1970" at ETAI editor. 160 pages full of black & white pictures.
On sale next october ! (sorry only in french now). have a look on Amazone web site.
Best regards to all ! (hope everybody will like it and that I did not have made to many mistakes....)
JFB
#19
Posted 30 August 2007 - 17:28
On the other hand you often don't get the visual richness of books focusing more on photography so variety is a must.
Pre-war period I'm mainly interested in racing cars only whereas from the 50's onwards I'm also interested in production cars to. I already own some encyclopedias, Pierre Menard F1 for example and I must say I'm not inclined to buy more.
PS: Why are the Poomeroy books so highly regarded? Is it a collector thing or are they really good for technical content, drawings, what? :-)
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#20
Posted 30 August 2007 - 18:07
Some years ago I tried to find somebody who worked alongside him at Temple Press but the one person I found (can't remember the name now), told me he was very private and in fact very few even knew his full name. He was I think Lionel Cresswell, but I do not know for sure. His drawings carry the name L. C. Cresswell. Apparently 'Bunny' Tubbs of VSCC fame knew him but I was unable to talk to him before he deceased.
Part of the reason for their being highly regarded is that at a time when most motoring books were small, printed on low quality paper with very poor repro pictures, Temple Press's impressive volumes were large, had proper quality paper and illustrations and enormous pull out drawings. Being written by the highly regarded Pomeroy, 'Pom', also helped. However I believe there might have been an earlier version that was more utility, I don't have it but someone on here will and can confirm or deny this.
#21
Posted 31 August 2007 - 07:31
"The Speed Merchants" by Michael Keyser
The Alexander book is a bit short on text, but more than makes up for it with the photos. The book is an odd size, perhaps 18 or 22 inches long, which makes for some great photos.
The Keyser book has a great text as well as great photos, and some fine passages from the likes of Redman, Elford, Andretti, Marko...(and I'm referring to the first edition; I haven't looked at the second edition.)
Dave
#22
Posted 31 August 2007 - 19:46
Jesse Alexander's At Speed (Bond/Parkhurst 1972) is personal favorite, yet the cost today for this large format color book would be prohibitive for many. Great design.
Looking Back by Jesse Alexander (At Speed Press 1982) is a very fine smaller format black and white book that can be had for a semi reasonable amount of money. Primarily European racing 1954 - 1967.
Two more of Konemann books (well designed, well printed, modestly priced) These feature Black & White photos:
American Racing: Road Racing in the 50s and 60s. Photos by Tom Burnside and words by Denise McCluggage (1996)
Portraits of the 60s Formula I, by Rainer Schlegelmilch (1994)
Peter Coltrin Racing in Colour 1954-1959, words by Nixon, Chris (Automobilia 2003)
The Automotive Photography of Peter Coltrin (John W. Barnes Jr 1978) Photos Racing European motor racing 1957 to 1965. A Simple, soft cover, Black and White.
Klemantaski Himself: The memoirs of Louis Klemantask (Palawan Press 1998). A fine biography on one of the greatest photographers. TNot an in-depth look at the work of Klemantaski, the book is more text intensive.
Track Pass: Photographer's View of Motor Racing, 1950-80 is a fine combination of photos by
Geoff Goddard and text by Doug Nye (Crowood Press 1990 and 97)
Track Record: Images of Motor Sport 1950-1980 (Motorbooks Intl, 1999) by Maurice Rowe. Good photos, color and Black & White, Good buy.
Formula One Through the Lens: Three Decades of Motorsport Photography,
Nigel Snowdon. (Hazleton Publishing 1998)
The Legends of Motorsport by Dave Friedman (1996) is well designed and printed and features striking black and whites.
I may be able to get hold of a few unsold copies of this one.
Mark
#23
Posted 31 August 2007 - 20:28
#24
Posted 01 September 2007 - 12:36
Vou escrever em inglês, por uma questão de respeito para com os outros convivas.
You´ve already mentioned some great references, so I'll try noy to repeat many:
F1:
Apart from the "Formula one through the lenses of Nigel Snowdown" and "Track Record" of Maurice Rowe, the Schlegelmilch books, try also the Paolo D'Alessio books, "Formula One Top Teams" and "Formula 1 Emotions" much on the same style and format of the Schlegelmilch books and available through regular bookshops in Portugal. About Schlegelmilch, let me add "Grand Prix de Monaco" - same style, hundreds of photos from the first GP there.
Sports Cars:
I hear Wimpffen's books are a most, trying to raise money to buy them myself. But also - and not so expensive - The 3 volume ETAI published "Endurance - 50 ans d'histoire" - lots of reading, lots of photos, all the results, 3 volumes from 1953 to 2003. A must have.
The two "litlle" books - italian format, you can call them portfolios - of Michel Bollée, Le Mans 1960-69 and 1970-80. Loads of colours photos, many from practice with ambiance and cars that were withdrawn before the race.
"The Speed Merchants" by Michael Keyser - mentioned but earns the repetition.
On more specific themes:
"Ferrari 250 GTO" by Bluemell et Pourret.
The books by François Hurel: "Porsche Prototypes au Mans", "Alpine au Mans", "Ford au Mans" and "Matra au Mans" - many photos and lots of history.
Books by David Friedman (in fact, photographic logs with text) "Trans-Am, the pony-car wars 66-72"; "Shelby GT-40"; "Cobra - The Shelby American Original Archives 62-65"; "Corvette Grand Sport - The Factory Specials 62-67" (with Lowell Paddock); "Chaparral - Can-Am and Prototype Race Cars".
Also on Cobra, great history and detail photo: "AC Cobra, the truth behind an anglo-american legend" Rinsey Mills for Haynes.
"Ferrai Idea" and "Ferrari - Le Livre Officiel" - all on Ferrari, b/w, colour, technical drawing, illustration, prototypes, styling studies, cutaways, wooden buckets, ...
"Porsche 917", by Peter Morgan - indispensable!
"24-16", by Norbert Singer - rather insightfull and emotional if you are into Porsche and the 70's-80's period, many interesting photos.
Rally:
The two Reinhard Klein books "Rally" and "Rally Cars" have it all.
General:
"Inside 100 great cars" - 100 cutaway colour drawings edited by David Hodges.
"Hot cars of the 50's" - "60's" - "70's" - by Craig Cheetham, well organised, schemes and drawings.
"50 Years of Road&Track - The art of the automobile", by William Motta - Fascinating stuff edited within the magazine - covers, illlustrations, cartoons, photos, paintings,...
"Racing", illustrations by Denis Sire, story by William Pac
If you are into photo/illustration, the japanese have non-expensive books, packed with tons of it. The only setback is the texts are - you guess - in japanese. I still have several of them, about Porsche, Ferrari and Ford Prototypes, japanese international racing and also on Skyline/Fairlane Z racers and Toyota 2000GT. Go to Hobby Link Japan - www.hlj.com on the books/magazines section and browse.
And finally, the Bibles, they come not so often and perhaps command high prices (unless they've been reissued - I don't know);
"The Cobra-Ferrari Wars", by Michael Shoen.
"Piloti, che gente...", by Enzo Ferrari.
Also try these:
Editions du Palmier, Motorbooks-uk and Motorbooks-USA (don't have have www adresses in here but you'll have no difficulties googeling them)
This is of course subjective and a personal account of what I know and/or have, nothing more.
Boa sorte (good luck)!
Zé
#25
Posted 02 September 2007 - 00:46
As soon as I have time I'm going through my huge Classic Cars and Classic and Sports car magazine collection to review al those book reviews and maybe find some more gems.
Isn't it a little bit strange that some of the greatest road races of all times like the Mille Miglia, Targa Florio and the Carrera Panamericana lack outstanding books covering it? Giorgio Nada launched the Targa Florio one but apparently they do not hit the mark, evem more strange since the books generally seem to be of high production values.
#26
Posted 02 September 2007 - 16:53
The idea that there are no good books on these three races is rather naive. I don't know where you heard that there are flaws in the Nada 100th anniversary Targa book. It is outstanding with complete results including car numbers and retirements. The large format has exceptional photo reproduction.
Two excellent books on the Carrera are Carrera Panamericana "Mexico" by Adriano Cimarosti, Automobilia, Milano, 1987 and Carrera Panamericana by Daryl E. Murphy, Motorbooks International, Osceola WI, 1993. One provides a Continental point of view, the other a USA perspective.
There have been several more than passable books on the Mille Miglia. The historian's bible would be Mille Miglia, una corsa italiana by Luigi Orsini, Edizioni Abiemme, Milano, 1990, again with complete results. Another excellent one is Mille Miglia 1927-1957 by Giovanni Laurani, Edita SA, Lausanne, 1981. Originally published as La storia della Mille Miglia, Instituto Geografico De Agostini, Novara, 1979. A more personal side of the great race is Count Maggi's Mille Miglia by Peter Miller, St. Martin's Press, New York, 1988. For a more specialized look, try Red Arrows, Ferraris in the Mille Miglia by two-time Mille Miglia winner, Giannino Marzotto, Georgio Nada, Vimodrone, 2001. This delineates every Ferrari to enter the great race.
If you work your way through these, you will know more about these races than 98% of motoring journalists writing today.
#27
Posted 02 September 2007 - 23:59
Quote
Originally posted by cabianca
Marcos and Carrera, Mille Miglia and Targa book watchers:
The idea that there are no good books on these three races is rather naive. I don't know where you heard that there are flaws in the Nada 100th anniversary Targa book. It is outstanding with complete results including car numbers and retirements. The large format has exceptional photo reproduction.
Two excellent books on the Carrera are Carrera Panamericana "Mexico" by Adriano Cimarosti, Automobilia, Milano, 1987 and Carrera Panamericana by Daryl E. Murphy, Motorbooks International, Osceola WI, 1993. One provides a Continental point of view, the other a USA perspective.
There have been several more than passable books on the Mille Miglia. The historian's bible would be Mille Miglia, una corsa italiana by Luigi Orsini, Edizioni Abiemme, Milano, 1990, again with complete results. Another excellent one is Mille Miglia 1927-1957 by Giovanni Laurani, Edita SA, Lausanne, 1981. Originally published as La storia della Mille Miglia, Instituto Geografico De Agostini, Novara, 1979. A more personal side of the great race is Count Maggi's Mille Miglia by Peter Miller, St. Martin's Press, New York, 1988. For a more specialized look, try Red Arrows, Ferraris in the Mille Miglia by two-time Mille Miglia winner, Giannino Marzotto, Georgio Nada, Vimodrone, 2001. This delineates every Ferrari to enter the great race.
If you work your way through these, you will know more about these races than 98% of motoring journalists writing today.
Thank you for your suggestions cabianca! My comments regarding the Nada Targa book are founded on a review by Motorsport which states that although well produced the book features many closed crop and otherwise slightly boring pictures. Not seen the book so just based on that, but seems great otherwise it's on my wishlist. Seeing that this are such legendary races I think books on offer are few, most of the ones you quote are out-of-print and harder to get (?) I don't know if the Anthony Pritchard book on the Miglia is very good or just so-so...
#28
Posted 03 September 2007 - 15:58
Mail #6 mentions a new book from you, "Sports car in Camera", when will it be available ?
Can you inform which period will be on focus ?
VBR.
André Acker.
#29
Posted 03 September 2007 - 21:02
Any moment now and it covers the period 1960-69 inclusive.
#30
Posted 03 September 2007 - 21:07
I saw it at Motorbooks homepage !
Thanks for your reply !
VBR.
André Acker.
#31
Posted 04 September 2007 - 12:50
DCN
#32
Posted 04 September 2007 - 13:32

Formula Sports Cars & the Birth of/Turbo
Anyone know what it is, it allegedly has a publishing date of 30th Sept but it doesn't appear on the David Bull website, I'm guessing another Amazon cock-up as they don't have the silhouettes book?
#33
Posted 05 September 2007 - 01:09
Quote
Sound like that may be #4 in his series of photo book supplements to "Time and Two Seats". But I do know that Janos has completed a book on the history of Elva that should be forthcoming. (Our Dr. Wimpffen is a very busy lad!)Originally posted by Mark A
On the subject of the Wimpffen books, Amazon has the following for sale (awaiting publication)
Formula Sports Cars & the Birth of/Turbo
Anyone know what it is, it allegedly has a publishing date of 30th Sept but it doesn't appear on the David Bull website, I'm guessing another Amazon cock-up as they don't have the silhouettes book?
Tom
#34
Posted 05 September 2007 - 02:13
Quote
You are refering to this?:Originally posted by Mark A
On the subject of the Wimpffen books, Amazon has the following for sale (awaiting publication)
Formula Sports Cars & the Birth of/Turbo
Anyone know what it is, it allegedly has a publishing date of 30th Sept but it doesn't appear on the David Bull website, I'm guessing another Amazon cock-up as they don't have the silhouettes book?
http://www.amazon.co...o/dp/1893618838
I saw that too. The ISBN# is the same as Spyders & Silhouettes (but the Publisher given as "Haynes Publishing Group"). Maybe "Formula Sports Cars & the Birth of/Turbo" was—as they say in Hollywood—the "working title".
#35
Posted 05 September 2007 - 07:56
I researched LC for somebody years ago and I had Lionel and Leslie in mind but chose the wrong one. Honest guv!
Meanwhile do you know what the C stood for?
#36
Posted 05 September 2007 - 08:00
Quote
Originally posted by RA Historian
Sound like that may be #4 in his series of photo book supplements to "Time and Two Seats". But I do know that Janos has completed a book on the history of Elva that should be forthcoming. (Our Dr. Wimpffen is a very busy lad!)
Tom
Has he really finished the Elva book I thought that project had stalled.
As an Elva owner I'd love to see it appear, any idea when that could be?
#37
Posted 05 September 2007 - 10:46
Nathan
#38
Posted 05 September 2007 - 13:20
Quote
As far as I know it is near completion. Janos told me recently (via e mail) that he was just about ready to go with it. I too am looking forward to reading it; I do not recall offhand any definitive book on Elva.Originally posted by Peter Morley
Has he really finished the Elva book I thought that project had stalled.
As an Elva owner I'd love to see it appear, any idea when that could be?
#39
Posted 05 September 2007 - 14:36
Not period correct images, but pictures taken during the last Rennsport reunion. It portrays (almost) every racing type of porsche .
A bit expensive; but well worth it

cj
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#40
Posted 05 September 2007 - 15:39
Quote
Originally posted by cjpani
as for amazing photography, I would reccomend Jeffrey Zwart's "Porsche Rennsport" by Bull Publishing.
Not period correct images, but pictures taken during the last Rennsport reunion. It portrays (almost) every racing type of porsche .
A bit expensive; but well worth it![]()
cj
Ah ah!

"Porsche Rennsport"
Jeff Zwart;
"Racing in the Rain: Engineering Victories with Aston Martin, GT40 and Porsche 917"
J. Horsman
"Winged Sports Cars & Enduring Innovation: The International Championship for Manufacturers in Photographs, 1962-1971"
Janos Wimpffen
"Autocourse (Autocourse: The World's Leading Grand Prix Annual)"
Alan Henry
"The Lotus Book Series 3 (Lotus Book)"
William Taylor
Bull Publishing as some really amazing books doesn't it?
Plenty more on my whishlist but now I'm broke and must wait for Christmas and beg girlfriend/family/friends to focus on books...

#41
Posted 06 September 2007 - 15:28
you could make my own list...
cj
#42
Posted 07 September 2007 - 08:26
http://www.max.de/li...1 Legenden.html
#43
Posted 07 September 2007 - 13:54
(Foreword by JIM CLARK)
Editorial BLUME - Barcelona - Madrid (1967).
SS.
#44
Posted 16 September 2007 - 19:05
Quote
Originally posted by Paul Parker
To Andre Acker.
Any moment now and it covers the period 1960-69 inclusive.
Paul - the 60s and 70s Formula One In Camera books are two of my favourites, so I've just ordered a copy of your new one.
I just wondered - as there have been several recent books covering this era in sports car racing, how hard was it to find photos which aren't over-familiar? (I think that's the real strength of the Formula One books.)
John
#45
Posted 17 September 2007 - 09:14
I have said before that what I would want to do is write a 1,000 page book with a 1,000 pictures but it would probably cost a £1,000 to produce and would probably only have 1,000 buyers.
In some cases it is very difficult to find original material unless you are prepared to pay huge amounts to the copyright holder, so this can influence choice. The In Camera series are modestly priced by contemporary standards for a full colour work and I do my best to make them interesting and informative, especially for anybody coming to this without prior or extensive knowledge of the genre.
Thank you for your support, it is greatly appreciated and there will be more to come in due course.
#46
Posted 17 September 2007 - 13:35
Now I love reading these contemporary reports, but it's such a shame that the reproduction is so poor, especially of the photographs which in some cases become almost unrecognisable. Was it just that these books were produced to a budget or were the original magazines really printed that badly?
#47
Posted 17 September 2007 - 16:20
Autosport actually deteriorated markedly sometime during the late 1960s/early 70s as far as I can recall before improving again. Colour front covers started appearing regularly during 1965 but the content stayed b/w for decades after. The best stuff, at least in the 1950s and onwards was in Motor Sport and was greatly helped by the fact that the owner Wesley Tee had purchased huge rolls of very high quality art paper post WW2 that lasted for years and years. Colour covers started around 1961 and made it inside later that decade.
The books you refer to look like the actual magazine articles themselves have been scanned, but I don't actually know for sure.
#48
Posted 17 September 2007 - 17:30
#49
Posted 20 September 2007 - 20:14
Quote
Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
The above poster has done it again ! Paul Parker has again selected some faboulos pictures with all the atmosphere you need , all colour , and from perhaps the most exciting period in sports car racing (?) A must for every SC fan !
I took delivery of my copy today, and I couldn't agree more. It's wonderful. So many photos I've never seen before.
Chapeau!
John
#50
Posted 21 September 2007 - 07:56