Speed's ultimate price: the toll...
Posted 22 October 2000 - 10:21
Oct 27, 1929: Johnny Rohrer crashed through the guardrail and fell 35 feet deep
Jul 27, 1930: Bob Robinson was killed when following a driver who'd just been stung by a bee he was suddenly driven off the track as a result
Posted 22 October 2000 - 13:10
I can confirm the deaths of Jean-Luc Salomon and Denis Dayan in th F3 race meeting at Rouen '70.
Denis had his crash at the Virage des Six Frères, tha same spot who saw the death of Jo Schlesser two years before, while Jean-Luc crashed at the Virage de la Scierie dying in the Grand Prix Medical Unit.
Posted 22 October 2000 - 21:25
Posted 22 October 2000 - 22:13
Tony used to drive in a team called Normand Racing with a guy named Mike Beckwith. Pretty white and blue cars; Lotus 23 sports cars and F2's I think, probably Coopers.
Posted 23 October 2000 - 07:07
That's not nit-picking. It's called "getting it right". I am surprised I hadn't picked that up; I remember the name well, now you've got it right. But we are still short of the exact date.
On a similar vein:
Rainer and Koen
You both have Art Bisch as having been killed on 4 July 1958.
I have it from another source as being 6 July 1958.
Now that I write it in this form, I realise that 4 July is a holiday in America, so that date is posibly correct. I had thought the 6th was more likely as that was a Sunday and the 4th was a Friday.
Both sources agree it happened during a race.
I wouldn't suggest altering your entry, but we should try to find a correct date for that Atlanta race.
I also just noticed that I have him listed elsewhere as "Art Birsch".
I will try to think of some way to check it all.
Posted 23 October 2000 - 07:40
Posted 23 October 2000 - 09:22
George Lawton killed at the Roskilde Ring in Denmark in 1960. He was the joint winner, with Denny Hulme, of the 1959 Driver to Europe Award and showed great promise before losing his life in the Copenhagen Grand Prix, which was run as a F2 race that year. I haven’t been able to find the exact date but I know he finished fifth, behind Clark, Gurney, Bonnier and Graham Hill, in the Kentish 100 F2 race at Brands Hatch on the 27th of September.
Brian Faloon was killed at Pukekohe during the running of the 1972 New Zealand Grand Prix. The date was the 8th of January and he was driving a Rorstan-Porsche. He collided with Graeme Lawrence’s Lola T300 on the back straight of Pukekohe.
John Woolf and his co-driver Grant Whittaker were killed when their Peugeot 504 Coupe collided head-on with a marshal’s vehicle on the Chisum Trail Rally in Oklahoma. The accident occurred at the end of May 1982.
Brian Mabey and Gifford Tait were both killed while competing in races on Tahunanui Beach, which is at Nelson at the top of the South Island of New Zealand. Maybe’s accident happened on December 31, 1960. He was driving a self-built single-seater called a BCM (his initials). It was front –engined and powered by a 2240cc six-cylinder Vauxhall Velox motor, which drove through a Mabey-built combined diff/gearbox.
Giff Tait died on December 30, 1967 when his Chrysler Valiant rolled several times. He was thrown from the car and, I believe, was killed instantly. One theory for the crash suggested that the automatic transmission would have selected low gear when the rear brakes locked going into the corner. This meant that the wheels would still be virtually stopped after the brakes were released.
John Mansell died when his Cooper T51-Maserati slid into a telegraph pole during the Dunedin Road Race. The race was held in very wet conditions on February 3, 1962 and Mansell joined the race many laps after it had started. He completed about ten laps before losing control and crashing side on into the pole. The car broke in half and the driver was thrown into some trees. He suffered head injuries which caused his death about nine or ten days later.
Brent Hawes, aged 30, died when his Begg-Chevrolet sports car crashed on April 20, 1969 at Ruapuna circuit in Christchurch. Hawes had a fear of being burnt in a race crash so did not wear a safety harness. He was thrown from the car when it left the circuit at high speed after its brakes failed.
Glen Hawkins was another to die when the car he was driving had brake failure. He was driving his Holden Commodore at Pukekohe on May 2, 1999 when the brakes failed at the end of the back straight. He crashed at high speed into a tyre barrier.
Posted 23 October 2000 - 10:26
The date was August 18, 1968.
Posted 23 October 2000 - 13:36
Peter Dale? I think he used to import cars from Europe and sell them through Australian Motor Sports in the 1950s. Is that who you mean?
I never had anything to do with him. Perhaps I should have, but I can't talk to everyone.
Posted 23 October 2000 - 13:40
I can't vouch for the truth of this but, at the time Ward was killed, I was told by "someone who should know" that he had a sash-only belt (not a lap-only).
I thought it sounded strange at the time and said so. My informant (I can't remember who it was) said that, though it seemed weird, that is what he had.
Posted 23 October 2000 - 13:54
You might already have picked up this mistake yourself (I am working on a copy of your list, not from your web site).
You have (had) Ricardo Rodriguez as being killed at the Nurburgring, when of course it was Mexico City.
You also have the date as 2nd November whereas my list (and Koen's) have the date as 1st November 1962.
Posted 23 October 2000 - 13:57
I also just noticed you have "Riccardo" when his name was spelled Ricardo, with one "c".
Posted 23 October 2000 - 15:10
Posted 23 October 2000 - 15:40
Marcel Albers - British F3 for Alan Docking Racing - Silverstone in 1993???
Paul Warwick - British F3000 - Oulton Park in 1990
Also John Foulston (Brands Hatche Owner at the time) at Silverstone, testing a McLaren CanAm car I believe, 1987 or 88.
Posted 23 October 2000 - 16:10
Paul Warwick died Jul 21, 1991 while leading Oulton Park F3000 race. Since that race was stopped after this accident and never restarted he was posthumously declared the winner.
Hitoshi Ogawa died May 24, 1992 in Suzuka F3000 race.
Posted 23 October 2000 - 18:23
i don´t know what list you talk about....it is spelled Ricardo on my list....and btw I never had Aussie Tony Alcock listed either....
Some confusion seems to exist...
Posted 23 October 2000 - 20:02
I didn't put John Ward on the list as I thought you had already added his name.
A few more for the list.
Bert Hawthorne was killed in the Jim Clark Memorial Trophy Race at Hockenheim on April 16, 1972. He was driving the F2 Tui-Hart BDA.
Keith McFadzien died at Teretonga on December 8,1968 when his Begg 1500, or Begg Formula Ford as I have seen it referred to, crashed during a practice run.
Les Moore, twice winner of the Lady Wigram Trophy driving what was reputed to be Nuvolari's 1935 German GP winning Alfa Romeo P3 Type B and father of three-times World Speedway Champion Ronnie Moore, died when he crashed a locally-built single-seater called the RA-Vanguard. I haven't been able to confirm the date or location. I have two dates 1962 and October 1960 and two locations; Timaru and near Timaru.
I am still working on two others. A Formula Vee driver named Alexander Elvey(?) who died at Bay Park and a rally driver named Batt who drowned when his car went into a water reservoir somewhere in the South Island.
Posted 23 October 2000 - 20:23
Posted 23 October 2000 - 21:14
I witnessed Paul Warwick's crash first hand. The car hit the bank about 5 metres to my right. Dreadful. Quite the worst thing I have ever seen in 43 years of watching racing cars.
Posted 24 October 2000 - 09:54
As I remember the accident it was Lawrence's Lola that hit the train. Faloon's car hit an earth bank.
Also the train would not have been speeding. In those days there were no advertising hoardings along the back straight at Pukekohe and the train drivers on the main trunk line between Auckland and Wellington always used to slow right down so they could watch the action on the adjacent track. And I mean really slow down. They would crawl the length of the straight before continuing their journey.
Posted 24 October 2000 - 10:58
Posted 24 October 2000 - 18:37
After his Pontiac Firebird hit a bridge on the Elkhart Lake Circuit in practice of 18 july
Chris Williams GB 26 03 69
Testing a Merlyn F2 at Silverstone
John Woolfe GB 26 O7 69
Lost controle at maison Blanche on first lap with Porsch
Bill Ivy GB 26 07 69
In practive at the Sachsenring – Jawa motor
Posted 24 October 2000 - 19:09
Posted 24 October 2000 - 20:47
Crashed ; was thrown out of the car and killed.
First Danish Grand Prix at Roskildering (F2)
Posted 25 October 2000 - 03:25
He actually died on Friday during practice for the Jim Clark Trophy Race. That would make the correct date April 14, 1972.
I’ve dug out the Motoring News report on the race written by Alan Henry and it adds more info. Hawthorne was circulating in tandem with Bernd Terbeck and both went missing at the same time.
An agitated Niki Lauda called into the pits two laps later to ask why nothing was apparently being done about a car on fire out on the circuit. It was only then that a fire tender and ambulance were sent to the scene.
Henry’s explanation of the accident was that Hawthorne’s Tui slowed leaving the fast chicane on the outward leg and Terbeck could not avoid hitting him. Hawthorne was pitched into the barriers at tremendous speed and the nose of the Tui jammed between the two rails and slid along for some distance, pulling out the securing uprights, before coming to rest on fire.
He concludes that though the car burnt slowly for quite a long time it was subsequently confirmed that poor Hawthorne succumbed immediately to serious head injuries.
Posted 25 October 2000 - 04:06
Posted 25 October 2000 - 07:28
(They could all have copied from the same incorrect source, of course...)
There always has been confusion over whether is first name was Ludovico or Lodovico. Does anyone know the correct version?
Also, was he related to the man of the same name who was one of the original partners in FIAT, with Agnelli?
Posted 25 October 2000 - 12:47
Koen Piepers has the date for John Woolfe's death as 15 June 1969.
Can you check this?
Posted 25 October 2000 - 13:09
Posted 25 October 2000 - 13:21
Posted 25 October 2000 - 14:06
I am sorry, I only just now saw your post on the previous page.
You are right, I have absorbed information from your list and from Koen's into mine and I have been confusing them.
In future, when I find errors, I will just note them here without trying to suggest whose list has the error.
But we should try to get all the lists right, because we never know where the information might go - and we don't want to be responsible for distorting history, do we?
Posted 25 October 2000 - 16:21
1. McLaren M16B (Mark Donohue in 1972)
2. McLaren M16C/D (Johnny Rutherford in 1974)
3. McLaren M16E (Rutherford in 1976)
Ludovico (not Lodovico, I've seen a pic with his name on the overall) Scarfiotti died at the "Internationaler Alpen-Bergpreis Berchtesgaden" at the Roßfeld-Höhenring-Straße close to Berchtesgaden in Bavaria, Germany. It was the second practice run on June 8 in 1968, and his teammate Rolf Stommelen had just survived a horrific accident at km 3.2 of the 5.76 km hillclimb. Scarfiotti had started his run a minute after Stommelen's and left the road at km 2.4, tumbling down the hill and being thrown out of his Porsche which came to a rest 15 or 50 feet (depending on which report you do believe) below road level. The Italian tumbled down a further 120 (?) feet and officially died on the way to the hospital though the general consensus was that he died on impact.
Posted 25 October 2000 - 23:58
Posted 26 October 2000 - 04:51
I have (from Rainer or Koen - sorry, I have your lists mixed up) that he was killed at Monza on that date in a Toyota in a WSC race.
It shouldn't be difficult to check, but I have pressing deadlines at the moment...
Posted 26 October 2000 - 06:33
John Foulston tragically killed while testing his Maclaren M23 at Silverstone.
Cut and pasted from the site, so 'Maclaren' wasn't my spelling mistake.
Posted 26 October 2000 - 17:59
Posted 26 October 2000 - 20:41
Someone will have to email them to get it fixed.
Posted 26 October 2000 - 21:52
Yes what we all want is that the history will be as accurate as possible.
And Ogawa died at Monza in a Toyota TS010 sportscar.
Something completely different
A compilation of the Tucker story can be found at :
Posted 27 October 2000 - 14:14
"Roper is the second driver killed in the truck series, the first being John Nemechek, brother of Winston Cup star Joe, who was killed at Homestead-Miami in 1997."
Posted 29 October 2000 - 04:06
This information is from “Formula Racing Association Bulletin Board,” Sports Car Graphic, December 1962, Volume 2 Number 8, page 76.
Posted 29 October 2000 - 10:40
Ogawa died at Suzuka, I've checked it in a contemporary magazine. The only race at Monza that weekend was for Historic Touring Cars, Sports Cars ran at Monza four weeks earlier and that race was actually won by Ogawa!
After finishing fifth at the next Sports Car race at Silverstone on May 10 Ogawa then took over Rickard Rydell's Lola in the Cerumo team for this race. Approaching Turn 1 on lap 27 he clipped a rear wheel of Andrew Gilbert-Scott's Lola and took off over the run-off area into a hoarding. The car was completely destroyed and Ogawa died on the way to the hospital from his severe head and leg injuries. Several photographers and a camera man were also injured.
The reason why I grouped this with the Warwick and Albers tragedies is because from memory these were the only recent accidents where deceased drivers still classified as finishers in a race, Ogawa e.g. still taking two championships points after the race was stopped and not restarted!
Posted 29 October 2000 - 12:12
I didn´t even check the magazines from the period, i was so sure of the fact...
Seems that one single picture from a magazine locked my memory...
It was in fact a tribute-picture to Ogawa seen at Monza or the following race...
I could check it in the Endurance Racing 1982-91 of course but I have loads of Autosports from the period so I should have double-checked.
I am sorry to all involved, forgive me for this blatant mistake...
I will do a better job next time out...and I will now have a big chunk of that humble pie....
Posted 29 October 2000 - 13:02
That is why it pays to have someone else check your work - or check your own at a much later date.
Checking your own work immediately after you wrote it, you often don't recognise slips like this.
Keep up the good work.
Posted 29 October 2000 - 13:05
Driver Killed During Ferrari Celebrations
Saturday October 28th, 2000
One driver was killed and another injured today, when the two crashed during the Ferrari Event at Mugello, marking the Italian team's Championship double in Formula One.
Ferrari said Ulricch Plattenhardt, 66, from Germany, died at the medical center of the Mugello track, after competed in a special Ferrari Challenge race. He was unable to avoid the car of Swiss driver Daniel Kuenzli, which had crashed into a tyre barrier and spun back on the track.
Kuenzli, 51, had minor head injuries and a bruised shoulder.
Posted 29 October 2000 - 13:37
But who was this 66-year-old german Ulrich Plattenhardt?
It seems that he lost his car at the staight and... was hit by another Ferrari...