83 replies to this topic

[nivola]

Hi all I am trying to track down any of the haggis u2 that I can find in Australia.

I know you will tell me to contact the Hagarty boys but just seeing if anyone knows where they are aswell.

Kind Regards
Nivola

[Ray Bell]

I don't know much about them, except that about 1982 or so Peter Boylan migrated to Sydney and brought his with him...

He didn't keep it for very long after that, however, as he bought one of the Cheetahs.

[cosworth bdg]

Ray, where were the HAGGIS cars built.........

[murray thomas]

Cosworth

All the Haggis clubmans were built in Perth

At various peoples garages

John Hagarty had the jig for them

The first time one raced was March 1974

Out of all the People that had, built, and raced various clubmans in W.A I would be the the only one that is still a original owner of one

Murray Thomas

[xbgs351]

One has just been purchased by a gentleman in Melbourne. He was practicing at Winton on a Friday a few weeks back and we had a good chat.

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by murray thomas
Cosworth

All the Haggis clubmans were built in Perth

At various peoples garages

John Hagarty had the jig for them

The first time one raced was March 1974

Out of all the People that had, built, and raced various clubmans in W.A I would be the the only one that is still a original owner of one

Murray Thomas

Thanks very much Murray , Regards , Peter Nightingale

[murray thomas]

Hi

The Last haggis i have seen was at Morgan Park in Qld last febuary

Murray T

[nivola]

yay it good to see your murry.

I know there is one owner with two here!!! Doug Tylers beast he owns.

[Ray Bell]

Is that yours, Murray, or someone else's?

Looks to have some good gear on it, including Simmons wheels. But what's that periscope in the front, and why is the engine bulge so high and so square?

[murray thomas]

Hi Ray


No the clubman on the trailer is a Haggis U2 which was built for Lorraine Plues Foster


I think that could of been the car that Peter Boylan had but I not completely sure


The photo of the Haggis was what I took at Morgan park in Feb this year


I am attaching a photo of my clubman which is the original BARP9 ( the front car No25) which raced the very first day that the first Haggis raced at Wanneroo in 1974

My clubbie is still in Perth and I am here in QLD

Need it over here so I can run in some historic events


Also Ray thank you for all the interesting stuff you put on this site it is enjoyable reading
Terry Walker and you have some knowledge between you two

[nivola]

Murray thanx for your kind words.

As I am of the younger gard I never got to see the goldern years.

WASCC and racing is in my blood and something that I love.

Im trying to get as much infomation together for later years because as you know the old gard are slowly falling.

You think of those that have gone in the last 7 years and you have two names that stand out. Julian Cowin and the great Clem Dwyer. Seeing the Plymouth run always makes me think of Clem.

Some of the story's I have been told and the stories I know myself would scare a few!

Who has your beast now?????

Nivola

[murray thomas]

Nivola


Yes I still own it the BARP nine


You are right there we have lost a few of the Clubman drivers of the day when I was racing mine

Grame Ashdown, Mike George & Dick Murphy

Julian did own Dave Sullivans U2

When I go back to Perth around Xmas I think I know where another haggis is so I will be going around there


Murray T

[Terry Walker]

There's at least 3 Haggis clubman cars in this picture. The leading car, with the full-width nose, is Dave Sullivan in the Mallock U2, the green one is I think Neville Gigsby's Haggis. The Haggis is characterised by an undercut sort of air intake, wide and shallow. I'm sure Murray Thomas could identify the others.

[murray thomas]

Great stuff Terry

Have you got any more clubbie photos like that?

I was either in Melbourne or sick with Asthma and could not drive at that meeting as I would of been hanging around Dave Sullivan and Rob richards

in order
No 69 Dave Sullivan U2

No 50 Rob Richards Scimitar

No 39 John Hurney Haggis

No 24 Jeff Power Delta (was built along side of my BARP 9 )

No31 Mike George ASP

No88 Dave Currel Welsor

No 38 Rob Elliott Haggis

No 59 Kerry Malone Haggis

Hope this helps to Identify the Haggis cars


Murray T

[Terry Walker]

Here's a closeup of No 59:

[murray thomas]

Terry

Kerry Malone in the Haggis

Taken some time in 1977

the racing was good 1974-77 in Clubmans

Murray T

[barnsie]

Murray,
You are not a bad wealth of knowledge yourself.
Dad (Tim Barnes) agrees completely with your account of the cars and drivers.

Ray, you mention Doug has two - who else's car does he have?
Does anyone know whatever happened to Terry "crash" Craddock's car - wasn't that a U2 as well?
There was one in the early 1990's still racing - can't for the life of me remember his name but that car was supposed to be a U2 and it ended up east so who knows if that still exists?

Does Kingsley have his U2 (Dad's old car) or is that what Terrance Smith has? I was Told Terry had Doug's car but somewhere along the lines surely that's either Doug's or Kingsley's car.
If so what/who else has Doug Tyler got in the way of U2's?

[nivola]

Terry has two haggis and a barp.

Dougs is one of them.

Kingsley was rebuilding an old cluby with circular tubing and austin a30 running gear.

[barnsie]

Re Terry Smith: Does he now!
MM wonder if the 2nd U2 is Kingsley's car then?
I wonder if Terry would sell it.
Wouldn't mind having Dad's car back in the family.

As for the Barp, do you know whose car that was?

[murray thomas]

Originally posted by barnsie
Re Terry Smith: Does he now!
MM wonder if the 2nd U2 is Kingsley's car then?
I wonder if Terry would sell it.
Wouldn't mind having Dad's car back in the family.

As for the Barp, do you know whose car that was?

There wer three B.A.R.P. 9'S Plus dick Murphy's/jeff Powers Delta which was built in the Same shed as mine along side it in fact
B.A.R.P 9 B Was the car of Barry Nelson which Earl Weaver raced after Barry . I thinkThis car is in the eastern States

B.A.R.P 9 A Which was built by Andy Vann Kann .Andys car dont know what happened to that

I woman raced a B.A.R.P Anne Midelton cant rememember which Barp that was


Murray T

[barnsie]

Thanks for the further info Murray.
I had always wondered what happened to Earl's car.
I should really know the answer to this but memory is a bit jaded, John Hurney's #9 car what was this?
For some reason I always thought it was a Haggis U2, but something lurking in the back of the mind says it wasn't.
What was his car and does anyone know where that ended up?

[cavvy]

Not a Haggis, but does anyone know what happened to the Jomax Ford - last time I saw it was decades ago in a used car yard in Leederville.

[murray thomas]

Originally posted by cavvy
Not a Haggis, but does anyone know what happened to the Jomax Ford - last time I saw it was decades ago in a used car yard in Leederville.

Dont know what happened to it , but I was looking at a photo of it the other day

I have a black and white photo of it racing with other clubbies in about 1973

I am having trouble reconising the other clubbies



Think channel 7 gave me the photo

I was going to post it on the WASCC site when I get time


The Jomax had an interesting engine ford 3 valves per cylinder 1750 cc

I raced against it a few times


Murray T

[nivola]

Look what i found do research on other things.

It was a nasty hit!







I think malcom wells took the photos back then.

[Terry Walker]

John Hurney's No 9 was a Haggis, according to 1985 race results.

[murray thomas]

Originally posted by nivola
Look what i found do research on other things.

It was a nasty hit!







I think malcom wells took the photos back then.

Yes I was in that race way ahead of that prang

The guy in the car with all the damage to the foot box was Rob Elliot


The other car was Al Ford

Rob Ended up with two broken legs which ended his Racing
( rob was a good compeditor )

Al Ford kept on racing into the next season I think


Rob's Haggis had all the good stuff pulled of it and was taken to the tip

That actual race was Telecast I think by channel 9

This was shown on the news that night


Murray T

[cavvy]

Originally posted by barnsie
Thanks for the further info Murray.
I had always wondered what happened to Earl's car.
I should really know the answer to this but memory is a bit jaded, John Hurney's #9 car what was this?
For some reason I always thought it was a Haggis U2, but something lurking in the back of the mind says it wasn't.
What was his car and does anyone know where that ended up?

Memory only barnsie **, long after I left WA, Hurney ran a Welsor ?

** love your photos !!

[cavvy]

Originally posted by murray thomas


Dont know what happened to it , but I was looking at a photo of it the other day

I have a black and white photo of it racing with other clubbies in about 1973

I am having trouble reconising the other clubbies



Think channel 7 gave me the photo

I was going to post it on the WASCC site when I get time


The Jomax had an interesting engine ford 3 valves per cylinder 1750 cc

I raced against it a few times


Murray T

the 3 valve motor may have been ex the Gard 27 - Martin head?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by cavvy
Memory only barnsie **, long after I left WA, Hurney ran a Welsor ?

** love your photos !!

Yes, as Seldo would verify, John Hurney ran a beam front axle Welsor.

[murray thomas]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Yes, as Seldo would verify, John Hurney ran a beam front axle Welsor.

yes John Hurney raced a Welsor with a beam axel

That car arrived in WA in 1974


Race Car No 88 was the welsor


When he took over the Haggis of Neville Grigsby he raced with the No 39


Murray T

[nivola]

There is a photo somewhere around home with John giving Dad the "Bird" coming back into the pits when he ran "9" on the haggis.

[Terry Walker]

Terry Smith raced the last Haggis to compete in WA in non-historic racing, the last appearance being in 2000. Smith also raced a sports car called Sabrina.

[nivola]

Sabrina a mythical beast!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Terry Smith raced the last Haggis to compete in WA in non-historic racing, the last appearance being in 2000. Smith also raced a sports car called Sabrina.

Not the Sabrina? The one powered by a big Austin engine?

[Terry Walker]

Sabrina: 2916 cc, grey, according to programme. No other helpful details.

[nivola]

yes ray it was the sabrina u talk about from what I heard.

I never asked terry the exact history of the old girl

[Ray Bell]

Should have a supercharger hung out the front of the engine... two big SUs... lots of grunt... twin tube chassis and a neat sports car body...

The engine in it came from a car I bought for bits. After selling it to a Demo Derby contestant on the condition that I got the mechanicals back, Wally Gates and his mates brought a bunch of cans out to my place and we stripped the stuff out.

There's a Terry Cornelius story about the car on this forum somewhere... do a search using 'jugs' and 'sabrina' as key words.

There's pics of it too:

[nivola]

That is the old girl

Terry had it is grey and black.

I will have to dig up an image for you.

He sold it a few years back though.

[giffo]

I just had a series of images sent to me from Terry Smith
Terry took this shot at Wanneroo in the 70's
That's Stuart Kostera leading.

[minda]

Hi, i have the John Hurney car.
If any body is interested i would look at selling it, i have far to many projects at the moment,

Bruin Beasley
Minda Motorsport
Melbourne
0359975075

[Ray Bell]

Wasn't there a Minda Clubman somewhere?

And then I was reminded the other night of the Allison (or was it Alison?) Clubman, which I'm sure Ross Wemyss drove...

[Haggis 2]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Is that yours, Murray, or someone else's?

Looks to have some good gear on it, including Simmons wheels. But what's that periscope in the front, and why is the engine bulge so high and so square?

Hi Ray, The Haggis cars were all constructed with high quality components, but at the same time down to a very tight budget with the aim of a true "clubman" approach.
Murray is only partly correct in saying that they were constructed in various garages around Perth. My father commenced the "Haggis" project in 1971 and built an initial 3 chassis, one of which was to be for himself, the second for Glen Caple and the third for Lorraine Plues (later Plues-Foster and the original owner of the pictured car). Of interest is that Lorraine is John Hurney's sister in law and the pictured car is the only Haggis I ever drove... at age 14 across the Wanneroo paddock! One of the original 3 chassis was completed to the stage of near completion, then 2 were scrapped due to design improvements which were discovered along the way. The remaining near complete chassis was sold (given?) to Graeme Ashdown, completed and raced by him and then Al Ford. It still exists today but not sure of current owner.
A jig was made to ensure consistency of production, and 7 more complete chassis were constructed. The improved design was slightly wider, and featured a better suspension design incorporating anti dive and squat. 6 cars were completed and there was one spare chassis (originally meant to be for my father, John) and side rails and components for an 8th. Of these only 2 had their final fit-up and completion "off-site", being the first two cars for Neville Grigsby and Rob Elliott. They were assembled off-site as the project was in full swing and room was limited in our back-yard workshop. The remaining cars were completed in full at our place apart from minor touches.
The 'periscope' is an unfortunate and unnecessary addition by a later owner. The oil cooler is below and the area is a natural low pressure location so more than adequate cooling occurs through the original vent flush with the nosecone (and the original arrangement looked much nicer than this rather silly appendage). The bonnet height was only just sufficient to accommodate the engine, already laid over to the left side to reduce centre of gravity. The entire height from bottom chassis rail to top of engine cover is only about 20 inches. The squareness just looked right at the time....
The family are very proud of the cars and their consistent record of results. The only tinge of bitterness is that none of us ever drove one in competition and the silly prices they change hands for these days means none of us probably ever will. In particular my father, who despite huge personal sacrifice and the absence of any significant income during the project, was never even offered a drive by any of the owners. The resulting bad taste he was left with contributed to a deterioration of his health and was responsible for him largely turning his back on motorsport. Up until that time he was perhaps one of the most successful designers, constructors and engine tuners (and not a bad driver either!) this state ever produced.

[haggis]

Another of John Hagarty's sons here...

I am sure that red car on the trailer is John Hurney's car...looking at the roll hoop it sure looks like it...but it could be just a similar hoop.

Another thing about the bonnets...originally all the early Haggis cars had aluminum bonnets which had contoured cut outs for the engines to poke through. However, these were all changed (rule change?) to fibreglass enclosed ones by about 1976. The original design of enclosed bonnet was a lot more sleek, with a wrap around tapered panel which went across about 3/4 of the width of the bonnet area, however someone made a new mould (probably Ken Jones on behalf of John Hurney) in the late 70s and over time all the cars ended up with the same style 'high cover' bonnets.

[haggis]

Originally posted by giffo

I just had a series of images sent to me from Terry Smith
Terry took this shot at Wanneroo in the 70's
That's Stuart Kostera leading.

The picture is from 1975. After Kostera is Rob and Alan Richard's Scimitar, then Neville Grigsby's Haggis, The U2 with the Mazda engine...I must be getting old (LOL), then Max Fletcher in Frank Cecchelle's (ex Brian Foley) Alfa GTA and Russell Lamborn in one of his first meetings in the larger engined Milano GT2 he had recently purchased to replace his original Milano which was written off in May 1973.

[Haggis 2]

Another thing about the bonnets...originally all the early Haggis cars had aluminum bonnets which had contoured cut outs for the engines to poke through. However, these were all changed (rule change?) to fibreglass enclosed ones by about 1976. The original design of enclosed bonnet was a lot more sleek, with a wrap around tapered panel which went across about 3/4 of the width of the bonnet area

Hey Rob, you may recall both the ally bonnet and the earlier glass "wide profile" version had the engine partly exposed. There was a rule change (in about '75 or '76) which stipulated that front engined cars must have the engine fully enclosed to prevent blow back on the driver in the event of fire or escape of hot fluids etc. This was the reason for the square profile "hump". The earlier bonnets certainly looked better, but no longer complied with regs.

You may be correct as to this being Hurney's car.... the Simmons wheels. Lorraine's originally had Autocraft wheels, similar to those on Gordon Mitchells Sprite in the '70's. Peter Boylan could have changed them, as the Autocrafts (made by a guy called Gordon Dobie) were a cheaper and lower quality wheel and stopped production quite early. When he parked the car up a tree at one of the eastern states tracks (which resulted in the chassis being returned to WA for straightening and rebuild) he would most likely have destroyed a couple of them.

I spoke with Peter Boylan at a V8SCA meeting at Wanneroo a couple of years back (he was competing in the prod car support race) and he told me the Haggis was what really got him hooked on motorsport and was the best car he ever owned. Don't know if he was "pocket pissing" but he said he wished he'd never sold it.

[Terry Walker]

When I talked with John Hurney earlier this year he was very complimentary about the Haggis design and construction. He said the welding was of a very high standard, and the chassis was so stiff that he could feel the effects of even quite small adjustments to the suspnesion settings, which didn't get lost in chassis looseness.

[Haggis 2]

Hi Terry,

Yes the chassis stiffness and strength was often remarked on. Even the Rob Elliott car, pictured in the crash sequence on this thread, only sustained relatively minor damage and would have been quite repairable. But for a broken chassis tube (not a weld!) he would probably have been relatively uninjured. We were all quite annoyed that the car went to the tip, but I guess people do strange things at times of stress. Wonder if Rob ever regretted the decision.....

[Haggis 2]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Haggis 2
[B]Another thing about the bonnets...originally all the early Haggis cars had aluminum bonnets which had contoured cut outs for the engines to poke through. However, these were all changed (rule change?) to fibreglass enclosed ones by about 1976. The original design of enclosed bonnet was a lot more sleek, with a wrap around tapered panel which went across about 3/4 of the width of the bonnet area


You may be correct as to this being Hurney's car.... the Simmons wheels.

On second look, they are different Simmons wheels to those that Hurney's car had. Roll hoop is same or similar to that on Hurneys car though as Rob notes. But none of these observations could be conclusive....

A couple of other minor observations...

Terry's photo posted 3 Oct: In the background leaning on the roll hoop are myself and older brother Peter, aged about 14 and 16. We used to crew for Hurney at the time.

Barnsies Post of 20 Oct: Terry also had the car originally owned by Trevor Wright, but not sure if he still does.

Murray's post of 20 Oct: Anne Middleton also ran the Welsor for a while. Last I heard she had dismantled it (sometime in the 80's) and it was going begging for a song. Don't know what became of it.

Rob's post 22 Dec re Giffo's pic: The Mazda engined U2 is Ashdown's car.... possibly after Al Ford purchased it.

Cheers, Brendon

[haggis]

Also noteworthy is the crowd in almost all of the pictures. Wanneroo never gets a crowd like that anymore unless it is V8 Supercars...sad how the sport lost do much of its local profile in the late 70s.

[Ray Bell]

That's not just a local problem...

There's a few reasons, of course. One of them is that promoters didn't and don't promote unless there's a real drawcard and they're sure of getting a return for their advertising dollars. The competitors seem happy to pay, so just divide the cost of the meeting between the competitors (entry fees) and then any spectators through the gate are pure profit.

Another is the proliferation of other things to do. And yet another is the greater percentage of people who are doing things rather than watching others do them.

So it takes a pretty big show to draw a crowd. Of course, Wanneroo is suffering from the pressures put on it by the taxicab circus, with 'improvements' demanded each year. This year's are paid for out of projected earnings from the meeting next year (as last year's took up this year's profits... of course). It makes for a decidedly difficult bit of financial manipulation by the WASCC each year.

To their credit they keep going...