343 replies to this topic

[Tomecek]

Please, avoid using bad words and nonsense arguments, this is Racing Comments forum.

However, I'd like to know exactly what happened there...

[z2252314]

Vettel simply ran into the back of Mark

He should be shot for his careless behaviour...cost himself a podium and Mark a potential win...grrr

[kodandaram]

HAve not seen a good replay but it was all Vettels fault I think ....ruined the entire day for Red Bull . Mark webber - unluckier than Trulli ? Unbelievable . hoping next year won't be another one from hell.

[Nasty McBastard]

theres no denying that webber has some shitty luck.

his interview kinda made me LOL

[F575 GTC]

I've not seen the collision just what happened afterwards; ITV didn't know whether it was just Vettel being too close or Webber slamming the brakes on / warming the tyres at the wrong time. What is clear is that Webbo's just plain unlucky, if something's going to go wrong it'll happen to him.

[boost]

Webber sums it up nicely:

"That what you get when you use a kid with no ****ing experiance" or thereabouts.. he did swear.

Vettel Stupid rookie mistake.

[Buttoneer]

It's a shame for both of them. Difficult to really comdemn him as Vettel may have enountered all sorts of difficulties out there. Unquestionably his fault though.

[BorderReiver]

Very sad end to the race for both drivers that, they deserved far better. Sadly these things will happen on occasion.

[LukeM]

total disaster and heartbreaking for MW/RBR fans

I mean vettel is 20 years old right? its not like your dumb at 20, and its just basic common sense not to tailgate your teammate during the safetycar period and this overshadows the fact that webber was outdriving his car yet again and had a chance for victory if not a guarenteed 2nd place, but will be quickly forgotten because most people are results based.

[RiDE]

The guy is freakin cursed or something.

[v@sh]

Unfortunate for Vettel, has had an excellent weekend and it was a brillant drive until that stupid error. Even if Webber was warming the tires, Vettel should have known that and shouldn't have been that close behind. Its been happening the whole race and you see the other drivers on each others sides because they are warming up the tires and stop from hitting into the back of one another.

Webber, **** happens and if it does, it always happens to him. Monaco 2006, Australia 2006 leading the race and the car bailing out, Germany 2006 another strong drive and the car breaks down etc. etc. Most people think hes only a fast qualifier and not a decent racer, well all these drives are forgotten because he never gets to finish races with his luck. Given that DC is suppose to be a strong racer, what does that make Webber if Webber is usually the one in front?

Was hoping both drivers would be on the podium, Webber with a possible chance at taking the win also. Shame but this one was clearly IMO Vettel's fault.

[Tigershark]

Poor Webber. Things like this will always happen under these conditions.

Vettels new experience was paid for by a lot of Australian cursewords today.

[BorderReiver]

Fair play to Vettel for holding his hands up. He'll learn from that I guess.

[PassWind]

Originally posted by LukeM
total disaster and heartbreaking for MW/RBR fans

I mean vettel is 20 years old right? its not like your dumb at 20, and its just basic common sense not to tailgate your teammate during the safetycar period and this overshadows the fact that webber was outdriving his car yet again and had a chance for victory if not a guarenteed 2nd place, but will be quickly forgotten because most people are results based.

Well Luke while I am bitterly disappointed, I cannot spew venom at Vettel, its not worth it, the Kid is clearly very talented, yeah he made an error.

Hell Mark may have spewing at Lewis for all we know, Lewis was very erratic before the first restart and I was just wincing expecting a big prang right there.

The GPDA needs to have a quite word with Lewis IMO not a huge, huge deal, but he needs to cut out the slot car mentality on the restarts.

Simple fact is Vettel couldn't pull up an not be in the same space as Webber at the same time, its a pity and yeah I think we may have been in for some excitement towards the end there depending how Webber felt in the car in those final laps. Lewis was a little dodgy in traffic as we saw in the wet so who knows.

If Webber had come 2nd, how would he resume look? Now he is trailing his team mate in the points despite out qualifiying him 14-1. So this day could cost Webber more than Red Bull miss out on 8 million dollars in revenue and the million dollar car rebuilds.

[Raelene]

Hell Mark may have spewing at Lewis for all we know,

well what we do know is that he was spewing...quite literally into his helmet ;);)

hard luck - he always seems to encounter it...

[Cenotaph]

Vettel was amazing today, infact he was amazing all weekend. I felt really bad for him...

He made a mistake, let's not crucify him. He has learned a valuable lesson.

[LukeM]

I 100% agree with you Passwind in regards to hamiltons driving under the safety car. It's extremely dangerous what hes doing out there and it may have had a bearing on the webber-vettel incident.

However SV had been in the race for what 40 laps with a long safety car period, so he should have known that tail gateing mark was not wise. I said earlier in another thread that i noticed that he was WAY too close to mark and i honestly thought it was an accident waiting to happen.

In regards to MW vs DC, generally i always thought the F1 community is made up of pretty intelligent people, but generally the community is so results based that despite the 14-1 qualifying gap and the fact that mark has outraced DC is literally every race this year despite 1(barcelona when he retired lap 1) that because DC is ahead in the standings they will just label mark the "1 lap wonder kid".

Quite sad isnt it.

[v@sh]

Originally posted by PassWind

If Webber had come 2nd, how would he resume look? Now he is trailing his team mate in the points despite out qualifiying him 14-1. So this day could cost Webber more than Red Bull miss out on 8 million dollars in revenue and the million dollar car rebuilds.

This will cost more than just 8 million dollars in revenue. RB could have leapfrogged Williams, TS could have leapfrogged honda/super aguri etc. it would have been both Vettel and Webber's best finish in F1, marketing dream for RB with two drivers on the podium. A big pay day gone down the drain.

[Zoe]

My take is it is a very unfortunate racing incident. Kudos to Vettel for admitting his fault.
You also have to take into consideration his limited experience (albeit I'm sure he'll never do the same mistake again) and the bad visibility. Apparently he was looking to Hamilton slowing down for an instant and then ran into Webber.
To everyone spewing hate towards Vettel: Where were you when a much more experienced Montoya ran into the back of M. Schumacher, while being lapped(!), in dry conditions in Monaco?

Zoe

[Bruce]

MW will likely calm down at some point and realise it had nothing to do with age or stupidity...

The way the cars are backed up behind a safety car is always a recipe for disaster and this is compounded when you have the top cars doing the "start"-"stop" "I'm gonna go!" - no I'm not!" thing...

Didn't actually see the accident from the start, but I think it is one of those errors that is a lot less moronic than it appears...

I feel badly for Vettel - he showed his talent today though, in spite of blotting his copybook. We'll be seeing more from that guy.

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

**** happens.

To Webber, mainly.

[boost]

Originally posted by Cenotaph
Vettel was amazing today, infact he was amazing all weekend. I felt really bad for him...

He made a mistake, let's not crucify him. He has learned a valuable lesson.

He was involved in an incident with Alonso.. so not that amazing.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by Bruce
The way the cars are backed up behind a safety car is always a recipe for disaster

That's why some drivers keep space in front of them and dont get involved. If you have space ahead, there will happen less behind, too.

I dont know what happened, but I'd bet Webber did something stupid too.

[BorderReiver]

We never really saw the start of the incident, just the two cars going off. It'd be interesting to see what did occur.

[Tenmantaylor]

Webber def the most unlucky driver on the grid.

[Bruce]

Originally posted by boost


He was involved in an incident with Alonso.. so not that amazing.

He was running a third on merit in a Toro Rosso in the blinding rain and - according to ITV, was the benchmark for speed in the second stint for drivers with a full load of fuel including Hamilton.

In a Toro Rosso. In appalling conditions.

At the age of 20.

That's amazing.

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by LukeM

However SV had been in the race for what 40 laps with a long safety car period, so he should have known that tail gateing mark was not wise. I said earlier in another thread that i noticed that he was WAY too close to mark and i honestly thought it was an accident waiting to happen.

Hamilton said in his post race PC that he had Webber up alongside him more than once in the preceeding laps so there was a lot of 'gamesmanship' going on right the way down the field. This incident wasn't a million miles off what happened to Montoya and Schumie at Monaco a few years back.

It's just a risk they all run.

[Raelene]

what a stupid stupid comment

I dont know what happened, but I'd bet Webber did something stupid too.

[Raelene]

Hamilton said in his post race PC that he had Webber up alongside him more than once in the preceeding laps

that's because he was slowing the field down way to much...

[LukeM]

Originally posted by Raelene
what a stupid stupid comment

well the guy who posted it doesnt think before he types

[lustigson]

Originally posted by Bruce


He was running a third on merit in a Toro Rosso in the blinding rain and - according to ITV, was the benchmark for speed in the second stint for drivers with a full load of fuel including Hamilton.

In a Toro Rosso. In appalling conditions.

At the age of 20.

That's amazing.

Hear, hear! I couldn't help feel for the guy with him on screen (obviously) sobbing in his helmet.

[WildmouseX]

Originally posted by LukeM
I 100% agree with you Passwind in regards to hamiltons driving under the safety car. It's extremely dangerous what hes doing out there and it may have had a bearing on the webber-vettel incident.

i was half expecting the pace car to run over LH when ever it swerved to stay in front of him.

[Raelene]

I felt sorry for him too, but he did **** up and should have had a little cry - he could have had a podium.

[Sound of Speed]

Unfortunately for Vettel, yes, he's the only to blame. Stupid mistake.

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by Raelene


that's because he was slowing the field down way to much...

I certainly agree with you with regard to the last lap behind the safety car, but Hamilton was right up with the safety car a few times and Webber was still there next to him.

I'm certainly not excusing or blaming either of them here, it is clear that if 'blame' is to be attributed, it is attributable to Vettel.

[MLC]

Hopefully we will hear more form Webber and Vettel tomorrow and find out some details as to the exact cause. Though they both agree it was Vettel's fault. Too bad as Vettel was very impressive and his team could have used a good result.

But even more so for Mark. His pace was a match for Hamilton at that point and I beleive he had a great shot at taking the lead at the restart. What does this guy have to do to get a good result? I feel so sorry for him.

[Group B]

Originally posted by Bruce
I feel badly for Vettel - he showed his talent today though, in spite of blotting his copybook. We'll be seeing more from that guy.

I can't believe how bitchy some people are being; the kid drove a Torro Rosso into a podium position for ¾ of the race on a day when the likes of Fred and Kimi were making mistakes for fun. It's his first season, his first wet race, potentially his first podium, and he finally made one silly mistake which proved very costly. Hardly a hanging offence.

[Risil]

Red Bull and Toro Rosso bend the rules by running the same car, but whilst running second and third, the drivers both go for the same bit of track, and crash into each other!

The irony! It burns!

[clipper]

bad luck for webber, had money on him for a podium as soon as it was known to be a wet race.

One thing that stuck in my mind was on the first safety car period how close webber got to button and even passed button while still under the safety car as they were all accelerating and braking. So its one of those situations which he got the rough end of the stick.

[GregAU]

Vettel admitted he was looking at Hamilton's car and not where he was going!

"By the time I looked forward again, I was already in the back of Mark's car and I think he had also reacted to Lewis," the German said.

"I apologise now to Mark because I ruined both our races."

Shocking!

Moron!

[Dudley]

Originally posted by boost
Webber sums it up nicely:

"That what you get when you use a kid with no ****ing experiance" or thereabouts.. he did swear.

Vettel Stupid rookie mistake.

"Kids. Kids with no experience. **** everything up"

That's why some drivers keep space in front of them and dont get involved. If you have space ahead, there will happen less behind, too.

I dont know what happened, but I'd bet Webber did something stupid too.

You're not allowed to do that any more. Thanks to some bitching, you now have to be within 5 car lengths at all times.

Originally posted by BorderReiver
Fair play to Vettel for holding his hands up. He'll learn from that I guess.

Absolutely, doing the interview was brave.

[Gecko]

Originally posted by GregAU

Shocking!

Moron!

The guy admits his mistake, is truly sorry and appologizes. It was bad but he did the right thing afterwards. It's just a race, no need to hang him. There's just no pleasing some. And I am saying that as a big Webber supporter (possibly the most painful fan experience there is ;) ).

[V8 Fireworks]

If Hamilton had lost 3 more seconds with his off-track tidly winks then Webber would have emerged form the pits in the lead, pulled away with the superior pace of the Red Bull, under safety car Vettel would have crashed into Hamilton, and Webber could comfortably gap Kovalainen to the finish line to grab a tidy win for the Red Bull Racing squad. That's motor racing!

The real problem is that the RBR is not at the front often enough, next year when they have a proper top car they will be regularly up the front, their regular assortment of races up the front will go bad still but there will be extra races where they will be up the front where it turns out okay and they will take plently of wins and podiums. It's all about increasing the odds of a good result by being up the front more often! RBR will have a great season in 08, hooray for RBR's top team pace in the 2008 season and beyond!

[LukeM]

Originally posted by V8 Fireworks
If Hamilton had lost 3 more seconds with his off-track tidly winks then Webber would have emerged form the pits in the lead, pulled away with the superior pace of the Red Bull, under safety car Vettel would have crashed into Hamilton, and Webber could comfortably gap Kovalainen to the finish line to grab a tidy win for the Red Bull Racing squad. That's motor racing!

The real problem is that the RBR is not at the front often enough, next year when they have a proper top car they will be regularly up the front, their regular assortment of races up the front will go bad still but there will be extra races where they will be up the front where it turns out okay and they will take plently of wins and podiums. It's all about increasing the odds of a good result by being up the front more often! RBR will have a great season in 08, hooray for RBR's top team pace in the 2008 season and beyond!

wishing things will happen and the way things will actually happen are 2 very different things my friend

[Gilles4Ever]

Well Webber fans can take something fom this - Webber now has a moral win ;)

[Risil]

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
Well Webber fans can take something fom this - Webber now has a moral win ;)

That's Webber's second career moral win!

Plus the moral WDC in 2005.

[Ricardo F1]

Other than as someone else pointed out Webber partly caused it. The actual crash was Vettel's fault 100%, but Webber was playing shenanigans with Hamilton for ages - hell he even pulled right alongside him on the front straight. Hamilton played shenanigans back with Webber and Webber lost out to Vettel. Tough, but moral winner my ass.

[Philip Lee KK]

i was upset with Vettel. but what i find more upset was that we were robbed of a good battle between Mark and Lewis. instead we were left with Lewis cruising to the win

[Gilles4Ever]

what a joke

Sebastian Vettel has been handed a 10-place grid penalty for his next Grand Prix as a result of his accident with Mark Webber in Fuji this afternoon.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/62896

[LukeM]

how is it a joke?

ramming someone under the SAFETYcar should be punished