31 replies to this topic

[BorderReiver]

Hello Everyone

Right, inspired by a recent thread about the impossibility of driver comparison I thought it might be nice to have a bit of a laugh with it.

Just a bit of fun this, something to do in between races and satisfy the "mine's better than yours" urges a lot of us seem to have.

Imagine, if you will, that you had invented a time machine, and instead of using it to solve most of the world's problems you, quite rightly, decide to create the most awesome F1 racing teams in history with superb F1 machinery and drivers at their peak!

Now, of course, even in time-travel there are rules, so. You can create four teams, but with restrictions on each.

1st Team. Any F1 car. Any Driver With An F1 Start

2nd Team. Any F1 car. Drivers must have F1 start but NO World Drivers Championships

3rd Team. Any F1 car. Drivers must have at least one F1 start but NO World Championship Grand Prix winners.

4th Team. F1 car that must never have won a World Championship Grand Prix. Any driver with an F1 start.

You can't duplicate drivers or cars either. For example Michael Schumacher is eligible for both team 1 and team 4, but you can't put him in both. Likewise with cars.

Also bare in mind that, for whatever bollocksy reason, you can't transport the actual cars through time, so if you have Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna in a Lotus 33, those drivers will be competing in the 1965 F1 season. Likewise Jean Paul Belmondo and Hideki Noda (What the hell is wrong with you?) in the 2002 Ferrari would be competing in 2002.

Now, this is a friendly thread, for discussing why you've chosen as you have, and why you feel Stirling Moss would kick ass in a 1989 McLaren or Emerson Fittipaldi would rock bells in a 1954 Mercedes. Everyone is entitled to their choice and anyone who dicks about and is nasty or offensive about someone else's choices will find themselves transported back to the Roman Colliseum circa 98 BC with a big placard round his/her neck stating "I AM A CHRISTIAN". See how your bitching about Didier Pironi in a 2004 Renault goes down there!

Enjoy.

[ensign14]

Well, for one it would be mad not to have Schumacher in a 2004 Ferrari, as the season could not have been much more perfect for them. But I'd have to have the rules just as bent the previous year to allow it to happen.

For two, Moss in a Cooper-Climax T51 but with a proper gearbox. IMO he'd've waltzed to the title.

For three, Amon in a Lotus 78. I just get the feeling that he still would have been competitive then and in that sort of a car would have had a great chance at the title.

For four, Clark in a Lola Mk4 in 1962. Probably would have won a few.

BTW, I would be well impressed if anyone were at the Coliseum in 98BC proclaiming themselves to be Christian. After all, it was 98 years before Christ. And 150 or so before the Coliseum.

[BorderReiver]

Right, I'll weight into this one then.

"Reiver Sport Racing" will consist of . . .

Team 1 - McLaren MP4/4 (1988) - Ayrton Senna & Jim Clark

You've got perhaps the most dominant car in F1 history there (bar perhaps the '02 Ferrari) and Ayrton Senna drove it very well. No disrespect to Alain Prost, who is a formidable driver and who many, with good reason, think was better than Senna, but, to my mind, Jim Clark was better than the both of them ;). With this combination I think you probably have the naturally fastest F1 pairing ever, maybe the team would be deficient in other areas but in outright pace? No way. And I can predict with 100% Clark wouldn't have tripped over Schlesser in his Billiams at Monza, thus giving McLaren a clean sweep for the season (reliability allowing).

Team 2 - Lotus 79 (1978) - Gilles Villeneuve & Stirling Moss

The Lotus 79 is a legendary beast, the total class of the field in '78 and, driven by Gilles and Stirling at least one of them would nab the title that they both so richly deserved. Of course, this team does raise the paradox of having Gilles Villeneuve Lotus driving against Gilles Villeneuve Ferrari. Perhaps the space time continuum would collapse? Who would care? GILLES Vs GILLES! That would be worth it.

Team 3 - Williams FW14B (1992) - Chris Amon & Jean Pierre Jarier

Anyone, ANYONE could've won in the FW14B, gorgeous machine, insanely fast, very reliable. Chris Amon would finally win a race, probably races, probably the World Title, he was easily good enough. As for Jarier, I've always really rated him, he's sort of a forgotten man for th emost part but his performances for Shadow were mind bogglingly good. With a better ride the lad would've won races no problem.

Team 4 - March 881 (1988) - Michael Schumacher & Juan Manuel Fangio

The March 881 was a gorgeous little car, and very quick, but for the freakishly good MP4/4 it would've won races in 1988 I'm certain. No disrespect to Capelli and Gugelmin who did very well indeed, but stick Schumacher and Fangio in it and it would've done even better.

So, that's my lot.

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by ensign14

BTW, I would be well impressed if anyone were at the Coliseum in 98BC proclaiming themselves to be Christian. After all, it was 98 years before Christ. And 150 or so before the Coliseum.

DAMN YOU AND YOUR LATERAL THINKING!

Alright "I'M A JUDEAN DISSIDENT" then. Or "HANNIBAL ROCKS ELEPHANTS ROMAN ****" or whatever . . .;)

Incidentally Ensign, you running 1 car teams?

[Claudius]

Originally posted by BorderReiver


Alright "I'M A JUDEAN DISSIDENT" then. Or "HANNIBAL ROCKS ELEPHANTS ROMAN ****" or whatever . . .;)

I thought you were a member of "Judeas People's Front"?!
;)

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by Claudius


I thought you were a member of "Judeas People's Front"?!
;)

**** OFF!

;)

[noikeee]

Originally posted by ensign14
BTW, I would be well impressed if anyone were at the Coliseum in 98BC proclaiming themselves to be Christian. After all, it was 98 years before Christ. And 150 or so before the Coliseum.

He forgot to mention the rule of parallel universes.

Anyway.. here's my picks.

Team 1. Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna in a 1995 Williams - the decisive team-mate battle between two of the best drivers ever, in a car they weren't familiar with. I would put them in a 1993 Williams instead to have Senna at his prime, but this way Senna manages to skip his fatal crash.

Team 2. Gilles Villeneuve and Ronnie Peterson in a 1983 Ferrari - a bit too late in Peterson's career maybe, but again this way they manage both to skip their fatal crashes. This car didn't win the WDC, but it was good enough for WCC - would the talents of these two guys bring the WDC to Ferrari?

Team 3. Pierluigi Martini and Stefano Modena in a 1990 Ferrari - two drivers that I always wondered what they could've done in a good car. Two italians in a Ferrari, in a season they were competitive. Although the competition from Senna in a McLaren would've been too much for them.

Team 4. Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen in a 2007 BMW Sauber - they aren't winning the championship anyway, so why not use their driving abilities to boost one of my favourite teams, while having a great team-mate battle?

edit: I see that in your rules, almost all of these would get to face themselves! I didn't think of it that way, rather they would swap teams if they were alive and competing that season..

[Group B]

Originally posted by BorderReiver

Incidentally Ensign, you running 1 car teams?

He's a busy man; using that time machine to put together a BC uber team and sabotaging the v***a ;)

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by paranoik0
Team 3. Pierluigi Martini and Stefano Modena in a 1990 Ferrari - two drivers that I always wondered what they could've done in a good car. Two italians in a Ferrari, in a season they were competitive. Although the competition from Senna in a McLaren would've been too much for them.

That's an interesting one. Martini was certainly a classy driver but Modena . . he showed very well in lower Formula but I struggle to remember a period in F1 where you'd ever put him "above" the meagre machinery he ended up with . . .

Interesting choices though . . .

[aisiai]

Originally posted by BorderReiver

1st Team. Any F1 car. Any Driver With An F1 Start

2nd Team. Any F1 car. Drivers must have F1 start but NO World Drivers Championships

3rd Team. Any F1 car. Drivers must have at least one F1 start but NO World Championship Grand Prix winners.

4th Team. F1 car that must never have won a World Championship Grand Prix. Any driver with an F1 start.

1. Who cares. Irvine vs Piquet - for fun(mostly off-track probably)
2. Ferrari 1994. Kimi Raikkonen & Gilles Villeneuve. To compare 2 generations in a car in the middle(timewise)
3. Williams 1992. Alex Yoong & any of the 3? women F1 drivers. Can they do it?
4. Jordan 1999. Hakkinen vs M.Schumacher - to compare them in a capable but not dominant car.

(Great thread, enjoyed that )

[noikeee]

Originally posted by aisiai


1. Who cares. Irvine vs Piquet - for fun(mostly off-track probably)
2. Ferrari 1994. Kimi Raikkonen & Gilles Villeneuve. To compare 2 generations in a car in the middle(timewise)
3. Williams 1992. Alex Yoong & any of the 3? women F1 drivers. Can they do it?
4. Jordan 1999. Hakkinen vs M.Schumacher - to compare them in a capable but not dominant car.

(Great thread, enjoyed that )

Nice picks, but technically Jordan won GPs in 99.

[noikeee]

Originally posted by BorderReiver


That's an interesting one. Martini was certainly a classy driver but Modena . . he showed very well in lower Formula but I struggle to remember a period in F1 where you'd ever put him "above" the meagre machinery he ended up with . . .

Interesting choices though . . .

I know Modena wasn't a world beater, but I liked him somehow.

[aisiai]

Originally posted by paranoik0


Nice picks, but technically Jordan won GPs in 99.

oops, sorry I've read just the World Championship Grand Prix part

OK, to fix that I'll just reassign numbers. Swap 1 and 4. Seems OK?

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by paranoik0


I know Modena wasn't a world beater, but I liked him somehow.

Fair enough ;).

[LB]

Originally posted by BorderReiver


That's an interesting one. Martini was certainly a classy driver but Modena . . he showed very well in lower Formula but I struggle to remember a period in F1 where you'd ever put him "above" the meagre machinery he ended up with . . .

Interesting choices though . . .

Tyrell, Monaco, Front row..

anyway mine. Cars are purely for looks

1 Ayrton Senna & Alain Prost - Lotus 72
2 Gilles Villenueve & Pedro Rodriguez - Tyrell P34 and make it wet....
3 Chris Amon & Pierluigi Martini - Lotus 79
4 Michael Schumacher & Jim Clark - Jordan 191

[ensign14]

Originally posted by BorderReiver

Incidentally Ensign, you running 1 car teams?

Ensign scarcely ever ran 2 car teams.

[tifosi]

Originally posted by ensign14
BTW, I would be well impressed if anyone were at the Coliseum in 98BC proclaiming themselves to be Christian. After all, it was 98 years before Christ. And 150 or so before the Coliseum.

In all fairness, his coming was foretold, therefore it is conceivable that a few enlightened sould would have proclaimed themselves Christians. After all, Lions gott aeat too

[alfa1]

Originally posted by tifosi


In all fairness, his coming was foretold, therefore it is conceivable that a few enlightened sould would have proclaimed themselves Christians. After all, Lions gott aeat too

In all fairness, he did say the offender would be TRANSPORTED back to that time with that sign, so given a time machine its certainly no problem.

[Atreiu]

1st Team. Any F1 car. Any Driver With An F1 Start:
- Lotus 98T (1986)
- Senna (I wonder how he'd fair against Prost in a non dominant car)
- Prost (he could do it in the Mclaren, could he do it in the Lotus? I also wonder how he'd fair against Senna in a non dominant car)

2nd Team. Any F1 car. Drivers must have F1 start but NO World Drivers Championships:
- FW11 (1986)
- G Villeneuve (we'd be able to see what he could really do)
- Raikkonen (entertainment value)

3rd Team. Any F1 car. Drivers must have at least one F1 start but NO World Championship Grand Prix winners:
- MP4-2C (1986)
- Heidfeld (just because)
- Bellof (pure curiosity)

4th Team. F1 car that must never have won a World Championship Grand Prix. Any driver with an F1 start:
- Ferrari F1/86
- M Schumacher (I'd like to see if he could build a winning team out of that)
- Piquet (at his peak against Schumacher, I'm sure it would be a very different picture)


I guess you guys can see what I'd like to create. Even though there's no room for Mansell, I'm sure Villeneuve and Raikkonen would make up for it. And then, would Kimi stumble upon bad luck to not win the title? Would Villeneuve keep it in one piece? At the same time, I'd finally see what Schumacher at his peak would have been able to do without bullet proof reliability and his Ferrari gang, not to mention Piquet's rematch far from retirement and before his crash at Imola. As for Heidfeld and Bellof, I'd like to see how far their talent could actually take them.

[nordschleife]

Team 1 (any/any) :

57 Maserati 250F Jim Clark vs Ayrton Senna

Team 2 (any/no WC) :

85 Williams-Honda Gilles Villeneuve vs Pedro Rodriguez

Team 3 (any/no w) :

72 Matra V12 Stefan Bellof vs Tom Pryce

Team 4 (no w/any) :

63 Brabham Climax Stirling Moss vs Jackie Stewart

[Mark A]

Team 1 - Auto Union (1934) - Jim Clark & Ayrton Senna

Team 2 - McLaren MP4/4 (1988) - Gilles Villeneuve & Jacques Villeneuve

Team 3 - Lotus 72 (1972) - Chris Amon & Allan McNish

Team 4 - Jordan 191 (1991) - Bernd Rosemeyer & Juan Manuel Fangio

[tkulla]

1. Alain Prost vs. Jackie Stewart, 1990 McLaren
Though this would probably give Prost an edge, it's outside of the fireball era so JYS wouldn't complain.

2. H.H. Frentzen vs. Michael Schumacher, 1999 Jordan
This would show whether HHF finally lived up to his potential that year, or whether Damon Hill was just somehow suddenly washed up.

3. Ayrton Senna vs. Nigel Mansell, 1986 Williams
These two never squared off head to head - 86 was arguably Nigel's best year to try to give him a chance.

4. Lewis Hamilton vs. Jenson Button, 2008 McLaren
No traction control battle of the Brits... maybe no time machine necessary?

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by Atreiu

- MP4-2C (1986)
- Heidfeld (just because)
- Bellof (pure curiosity)

I guess you guys can see what I'd like to create. Even though there's no room for Mansell, I'm sure Villeneuve and Raikkonen would make up for it. And then, would Kimi stumble upon bad luck to not win the title? Would Villeneuve keep it in one piece? At the same time, I'd finally see what Schumacher at his peak would have been able to do without bullet proof reliability and his Ferrari gang, not to mention Piquet's rematch far from retirement and before his crash at Imola. As for Heidfeld and Bellof, I'd like to see how far their talent could actually take them.

I toyed with Bellof for team 3 myself, certainly a driver with tons of raw talent and great potential. Had to give the nod to Jarier though, mainly because I like him .

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by BorderReiver


I toyed with Bellof for team 3 myself, certainly a driver with tons of raw talent and great potential. Had to give the nod to Jarier though, mainly because I like him .

When I die and go to heaven, I hope there's some sort of time mahcine TV just so I can create and watch what would happen in dreams like these.

[MLC]

1st Team. Any F1 car. Any Driver With An F1 Start
Tyrell P34 - Alain Prost & Jackie Stewart
I'd like to see how well these two could have developed this unique car. Plus, as drivers I think they would have complemented each other.

2nd Team. Any F1 car. Drivers must have F1 start but NO World Drivers Championships
McLaren MP4/2 - Ronnie Peterson & Gilles Villeneuve
Two of the fastest in a reliable car worthy of their talent. Finally, one of them will get the WDC...but which one?

3rd Team. Any F1 car. Drivers must have at least one F1 start but NO World Championship Grand Prix winners.
Williams FW11b - Pier Luigi Martini & Garbriele Tarquini
Both of these guys showed more talent than the cars they drove. I always wanted to see them in a strong winning car.

4th Team. F1 car that must never have won a World Championship Grand Prix. Any driver with an F1 start.
Tyrell 019 - Ayrton Senna & Michael Schumacher
There will be fireworks no doubt. And in a car still good enough for them to display their talents.

[Andretti Fan]

Ok, I'll give it a shot

TEAM 1 Now who wouldn't love to see these two drivers go head to head

1955 Mercedes

Ayrton Senna......Jim Clark


TEAM 2 Just to see how these two drivers would adapt to the unique 6 wheeler

1976 Tyrell P34

Frolian Gonzaleaz......Stirling Moss


TEAM 3 Let's put two of the most purely talented guys to never win a race in the best F1 car ever

1992 Williams FW14B

Chris Amon......Roberto Moreno


TEAM 4 If these guys could score points in an under ( make that NO BUDGET) car, then they truly are the best drivers ever

1972 Connew

Micheal Shumacher......Juan Manuel Fangio

[JSDSKI]

Great bar game !! Just needs some kind of dice roll thing to gain points....

1) F2004 - Clark / Senna

2) FW15C - Button / Gurney

3) Lotus 25 - Amon / Siffert

4) Lotus 88 - Fangio / Alonso

[JSDSKI]

Originally posted by LB

2 Gilles Villenueve & Pedro Rodriguez - Tyrell P34 and make it wet....

My votefor most creative pairing for passion and sideways insanity! Great picks !!

Rodriquez and Redman - BOAC 500 in the rain or Spa - the best sports car races ever?

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by JSDSKI


My votefor most creative pairing for passion and sideways insanity! Great picks !!

Rodriquez and Redman - BOAC 500 in the rain or Spa - the best sports car races ever?

Was that the one when someone said "Will they please tell Pedro it's raining?"

Nice picks by the way .

[JSDSKI]

Yeah - seemed like Redman, Siffert, Rodriguez and Elford spent two years banging on each others fenders in the rain in 917's. A man's car if ever there was one

Thanks, noticed you've got Amon as well. And Jarier. Saw him at Long Beach a couple of times - great fun and amazing car control. Always seemed to have the arc in control despite the different track surfaces in play. Tarmac to concrete and back. Saw Gurney do a demo runs in a front engine BRM F1 car at Long Beach. That was truly a time capsule. He was throwing the thing around and hanging the rear out. You had to see him in a GP car to realize how brave he really was. His head was at least a foot over the head rest! At least the jockey sized guys had some protection. Fangio drove a Merc GP (1955). He was very delicate. His head leaned back. Staring very far down the track.

I don't know about the Lotus 88, tho, I second thought, I'm not sure Fangio could fit! And maybe his style is more suited to the 25 or 49.

Great idea - this thread!

[qvn]

Originally posted by Atreiu

...
At the same time, I'd finally see what Schumacher at his peak would have been able to do without bullet proof reliability and his Ferrari gang, not to mention Piquet's rematch far from retirement and before his crash at Imola.
...

Schumacher's 3 wins (among them was Barcelona 1996) and 3rd in WDC in completely newly designed, very unreliable, "a dog-of-a-car" (Irvine's word) Ferrari 1996 without his gang is enough for me to see he is one of greatest driver ever already at that point.

[LB]

Originally posted by BorderReiver


Was that the one when someone said "Will they please tell Pedro it's raining?"

Nice picks by the way .

"Why doesn't someone tell Pedro its raining?" Chris Amon - Brands Hatch 1970 BOAC 1000kms

or to be a bit more accurate
"That old joke," Chris said, "about why doesn't someone tell Pedro it's raining...it wasn't a bloody joke that day! I remember the way he came past us all, the things he was doing with that car. It was like sleight of hand..."