Bob Jane's cars - where are they?
#1
Posted 08 October 2007 - 08:47
On this poster Bob Jane lists his cars. Where are they all now?
I can name the Jane/Repco Brabham - minus the V8
http://www.warm.org....rabham-BT23.htm
The Jane Bowin P8 'I believe' is also here in W.A & owned by Matt Lloyd. (I undersatand it's about to be put on the market??)
http://www.bowincars...allery#Bowin_P8
Advertisement
#2
Posted 08 October 2007 - 09:00
#3
Posted 08 October 2007 - 09:11
I think the production cars just vanished - probably sold as used cars.
Any others?
Bruce Moxon
#4
Posted 08 October 2007 - 09:20
Sportscars
Maserati 300S
Jaguar E type
Jaguar Lightweight E type
Elfin 400
Mclaren M6
Open Wheel
Elfin Mono
Brabham BT?
Brabham BT?
Brabham BT36
Bowin P8
Probably a few Ralt RT4s
Production Cars
Falcon
Mercedes Benz
Ford Cortina (or two?)
Monaro GTS350
Torana GTR XU1
Improved Touring Cars
Jaguar Mk2
Mustang 289 (written off at Catalina)
Mustang
Mustang
Camaro
Monaro HQ
Group C Touring Cars
Torana SLR 5000
Torana A9X
Sports Sedans
Repco Torana GTR XU1
Monaro
Chev Monza
#5
Posted 08 October 2007 - 11:51
The was also a D-type, which he may not have raced. It was on display with the lightweight E-type and the McLaren at the Granville T-Mart and became the subject of an attempted suicide.
I'm glad you remembered that red E-type, too...
#6
Posted 08 October 2007 - 13:06
Originally posted by Catalina Park
Production Cars
Falcon
Mercedes Benz
Ford Cortina (or two?)
Monaro GTS350
Torana GTR XU1
Which Mercedes? The 220 raced at Phillip Island or the later ones raced by others at Bathurst, also purchased by Wardspeed? He also entered, but never ran, another Mercedes at Bathurst... maybe a 300SEL 6.3.
The original Cortina GT is at the Bathurst museum. There was a GT500, I'm sure, and there was a '64 GT Cortina. Also at the museum is a Jag Mk 2, which was sold off to Bruno Carosi when the Mustang arrived.
Another Cortina you've completely missed out on was the Lotus Cortina he and Spencer raced for a while.
The Torana that had the Repco in it also had a Chev V8 stuffed into it by Gardner.
I don't think the Camaro is in the Bowden collection. Certainly its gearbox isn't. It ran with both a small block and an alloy big block during its lifetime.
#7
Posted 08 October 2007 - 14:26
Originally posted by Ray Bell
The HQ Monaro Improved Production car became the Sports Sedan, was sold to Phil Ward, then went to Melbourne again... can't remember the buyer's name, but he already had an HQ, possibly the City State 4-door.
Tino Leo from Sheparton ?????
As to some of the others
-The second Mustang was written off by Chris Brauer at Lakeside ATCC from memory....
-I think the Elfin 400 is being rebuilt again.... this time in Melbourne...
-McLaren M6 Repco.... that lived in the window of the Elizabeth st T-Mart Melbourne for a while....I thought it was undergoing some sort of restoration at some stage.... but I could be wrong.... I'd love to see it run again.
-Wasn't the MarkII Jag restored by the T-Marts and given back to Bob?
- I thought the Camaro was retored by Miles Johnson ?? and Bob now has it ???
As always, I am more than willing to be corrected on any of the above....
#8
Posted 08 October 2007 - 15:40
the Maserati 300S was with Klaus Werner in Germany
the lightweight E-type was in Japan
the Brabham BT23E was with Art Valdez in the US
the McLaren M6A and Brabham BT11A were owned by someone called Bob Jane
I reckon he had four Ralt RT4s - don't known where any of them are, though
#9
Posted 08 October 2007 - 21:37
Yes, Leo, Miles rebuilt the Camaro for Bob. The Jag is very nice, but the stripes over the top are too wide. I'm pretty sure I heard that the M6 was being readied to put on the circuit again, possibly for demonstrations, and the 400 is well on the way to being finished. If not already done.
Four RT4s would be correct, Bob threw a lot of money into the AGP while he ran it at his goat track.
And yes, it was Tino Leo. I was having a mental block getting over Mick Monterosso's name, he was the buyer of Phil's Escort.
#11
Posted 09 October 2007 - 09:13
Sportscars
Maserati 300S
Jaguar E type
Jaguar Lightweight E type
Elfin 400
Mclaren M6
There was also the Porsche 956 that was run at Silverstone and Le Mans in 1984 (leased from Fitzpatrick?)
Jaguar D type (not raced by Jane, I think!)
Open Wheel
Elfin Mono
Brabham BT11A (was there another Brabham?)
Brabham BT23E
Brabham BT36
Bowin P8
Probably a few Ralt RT4s (AGP book says three in 1981, I am sure that there was more over the next few years)
He also owned an Indycar, March or Lola in the late 80s when he was building the dome
Production Cars
Falcon XK (Phillip Island 1960)
Mercedes Benz 220SE (Phillip Island 1961)
Falcon XL (Phillip Island 1962)
Ford Cortina GT (Bathurst 1963)
Ford Cortina GT (Bathurst 1964)
Ford Cortina GT 500 (Bathurst 1965)
Falcon GT XR (Bathurst 1967)
Monaro GTS350
Torana GTR XU1
Improved Touring Cars
Jaguar Mk2
Lotus Cortina
Mustang 289 (written off at Catalina)
Mustang (written off by Chris Brauer at Lakeside)
Mustang
Camaro
Monaro HQ (Became the Sports Sedan HQ)
Group C Touring Cars
Torana GTR XU1 LJ
Torana SLR 5000
Torana A9X
Group A Touring Cars
BMW 635csi
2 Mercedes
Sports Sedans
Repco Torana GTR XU1
Monaro
Chev Monza
#12
Posted 09 October 2007 - 11:29
As I said earlier, fourOriginally posted by Catalina Park
Probably a few Ralt RT4s (AGP book says three in 1981, I am sure that there was more over the next few years)
262: Brabham 1981, Lafitte 1982
263: Jones 1881, Prost 1982, Lafitte 1983
273: Lafitte 1981
258: Brabham 1983
The D-type returned to the UK in the 1980s
#13
Posted 09 October 2007 - 12:07
#14
Posted 09 October 2007 - 12:23
I think that was a BT14... David will correct me, of course.
#15
Posted 09 October 2007 - 13:04
The Repco went in during the car's last year with R C Phillips, and that was what was taken over by the Jane team
The BT14 is now with Peter Harburg
#16
Posted 09 October 2007 - 21:01
#17
Posted 09 October 2007 - 21:38
Originally posted by Jacer
The HQ Monaro is in Sydney being converted back into improved production spec.
That would be a lot of work!
#18
Posted 09 October 2007 - 21:45
#19
Posted 10 October 2007 - 07:44
Bob's XU-1 sports sedan, and the later Torana sedan were bought by Ian Diffen and raced in WA for a few years. After that I don't know.
Terry who belongs is this machine? A true sports sedan in every sense....It was at the Albany hillblimb in June
image Terry McGrath
Advertisement
#20
Posted 10 October 2007 - 08:55
I have also seen a story about a potential "Jane" engine for 1972. Supposedly a 2 litre 4 cyl with potential to become a V8 with 4 valves "diametrically opposed"
I think that the Ralt RT4 273 that Lafitte drove in 1981 went to Ray hanger and then to Peter Hopwood but I don't know after that.
Bob also had a heap of Nascars (is the collective of Nascars a heap?)
#21
Posted 10 October 2007 - 09:55
Yes, sorry, I should have saidOriginally posted by Catalina Park
I think that the Ralt RT4 273 that Lafitte drove in 1981 went to Ray hanger and then to Peter Hopwood but I don't know after that.
It's now with Geoff Calvert but I don't know the fate of the other Jane RT4s
#22
Posted 10 October 2007 - 10:19
Originally posted by giffo
Terry who belongs is this machine? A true sports sedan in every sense....It was at the Albany hillblimb in June
image Terry McGrath
Looks like "Soloman" on the rear window.
#23
Posted 10 October 2007 - 15:07
The only time I saw Bob Jane race was at the 1964 British Grand Prix Meeting Brand Hatch on the 11th July where he ran his lightweight Jaguar in the Ilford Trophy Grand Touring Cars race....I recollect the car was white with, I think red stripes, but I also have a very, very vague memory of a small kangaroo painted on the side...is this correct?
For those of you with long memories this was the famous Jack Sears Willment Cobra victory after he was black flagged ,tearing around to beat Jackie Stewart in the Coombs E Type--also John Willment's altercation with the RAC....!!
#24
Posted 10 October 2007 - 21:10
As far as his Brabhams are concerned, there was the BT11A (IC-4-64) with a Climax FPF that he ran for Spencer Martin to win his consecutive Gold Stars in 66-67, which was the car Martin drove in '65 for McKay's Scuderia Veloce. This was the car that Graham Hill drove in the 1965 Tasman Series.
Realising that the Climax FPF was nearing the end of its competitive life, after the 1968 Tasman Series Jane bought the BT23E (BT23E-1) that Brabham himself had driven in the series. This had a Repco V8 fitted. The first outing for this car was the Bathurst 100 meeting where John Harvey drove the car and crashed badly in practice (broken upright?). Martin had retired at the end of the 1967 season. The car was rebuilt and while Harvey was recuperating, it was driven by quite a few drivers including Ian Cook, Jim Palmer, Allan Moffat and Jane himself.
By 1972 the BT23-1 had given way to a BT36 with a Waggott 2 litre engine.
The "Jane" engine I have not heard of, but I am very interested.
#25
Posted 10 October 2007 - 23:54
#26
Posted 11 October 2007 - 00:11
Last heard of with Art Valdez in the States.Originally posted by David Shaw
Realising that the Climax FPF was nearing the end of its competitive life, after the 1968 Tasman Series Jane bought the BT23E (BT23E-1) that Brabham himself had driven in the series. .......
#27
Posted 11 October 2007 - 01:56
Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes
Last heard of with Art Valdez in the States.
Arguable....... hence view
http://www.warm.org....rabham-BT23.htm
And a question that I raised earlier
http://forums.autosp...&threadid=97357
And yes I know the body work on the front is different in all 3 images
#28
Posted 11 October 2007 - 04:06
Originally posted by David Shaw
The stripes on the E Type would have been red/yellow/red which he wore on his cars in deference to his Shell sponsorship.....
.....As far as his Brabhams are concerned, there was the BT11A (IC-4-64) with a Climax FPF that he ran for Spencer Martin to win his consecutive Gold Stars in 66-67, which was the car Martin drove in '65 for McKay's Scuderia Veloce. This was the car that Graham Hill drove in the 1965 Tasman Series.
Realising that the Climax FPF was nearing the end of its competitive life, after the 1968 Tasman Series Jane bought the BT23E (BT23E-1) that Brabham himself had driven in the series. This had a Repco V8 fitted. The first outing for this car was the Bathurst 100 meeting where John Harvey drove the car and crashed badly in practice (broken upright?). Martin had retired at the end of the 1967 season. The car was rebuilt and while Harvey was recuperating, it was driven by quite a few drivers including Ian Cook, Jim Palmer, Allan Moffat and Jane himself.
By 1972 the BT23-1 had given way to a BT36 with a Waggott 2 litre engine.
The "Jane" engine I have not heard of, but I am very interested.
I think the Jane engine is a furphy...
You don't mention the BT14 here, which was purchased by Jane to get the Repco engine.
And IIRC it was a broken wheel at Bathurst. The full story is in The Rise And Fall of Peter Brock by Tuckey and Harvey.
#29
Posted 11 October 2007 - 04:11
#30
Posted 11 October 2007 - 04:46
Originally posted by Ray Bell
I think the Jane engine is a furphy...
Ray, the Jane engine was not altogether a furphy........... it did partially exist....at least on paper that is.
I saw some of the original design drawings of it in the early '70s when Bob had his Race shop in Breece St Brunswick.
The designer (I can't remember his name) showed me some fairly amatuerish drawings of the cylinder head and block.
There was also an article in SCW with some talk about running the engine at Indy - but this was optimistic in the extreme.
The "designer" was more of a dreamer than a designer and didn't really understand the casting or manufacturing processes required to build an engine. I can remember him showing me a racing wheel that he'd "designed". It was a nice looking wheel but unfortunately he'd put the tyre well in the middle of the very wide rim and you were therefore unable to mount a tyre onto the rim.........
#31
Posted 11 October 2007 - 05:15
Originally posted by giffo
Arguable....... hence view
The Jane Repco built by Renmax? or am I missing something here?
Shot at 2007-10-10
BT23E-1 went to Ray Delaney, David Madrers, Bill Marshall ... then Art, or are you saying that's not right?
#32
Posted 11 October 2007 - 05:38
There is no argument from me with regards to what is on that CoD. If it's good enough for the historic eligibility officers to quantify then that must be it then?
http://www.ten-tenth...&highlight=jane
http://www.ten-tenth...&highlight=jane
Unless.........
#33
Posted 11 October 2007 - 07:10
Or the Bowin-built Jane P8?Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes
The Jane Repco built by Renmax?
#34
Posted 11 October 2007 - 07:18
#35
Posted 11 October 2007 - 12:20
The wheel and failed upright parted from the rest of the car during the accident, which is obviously where the "wheel failed" myth arose.
But, the above is just what I read, I can't confirm as I was not there.
#36
Posted 11 October 2007 - 12:50
As for Britto building the Jane chassis, I simply don't know. It sounds logical, I could phone him and ask him, but not at this hour. That poor BT23E went through some hard times.
#37
Posted 11 October 2007 - 14:10
The Elfin 400 is with Bill Hemmings and the Elfin Mono with Grant Burford.
#38
Posted 11 October 2007 - 21:29
#39
Posted 11 October 2007 - 23:54
I could be completely wrong here, but after Harvey's crash in the BT23E, didn't Bob Britten fabricate a totally new chassis for it when it was rebuilt?
I'm not 100% sure but I believe that that is the case.
As for Britto building the Jane chassis, I simply don't know. It sounds logical, I could phone him and ask him, but not at this hour. That poor BT23E went through some hard times.
Great Idea & since you suggested it I'd be very interested
The Certificate of Description for the McCrudden car lists the year of manufacture as 1969. As the BT23E was raced in 1968 in the Tasman Series, that would imply to me that it was manufactured in England in 1967 so maybe it is a different car to that of Art Valdez.
That is true but what is a direct line of history worth & when does one car finish & another start? Can one car become two & both lay claim to being the same one?
I'd just like to point out that while I have no direct connection with the car I do know Neil very well & he is aware of me asking a few questions. My interest is what the community's & the historian's here thoughts are in these situations which do happen more often that were probably realise.
Advertisement
#40
Posted 12 October 2007 - 00:02
Originally posted by giffo
That is true but what is a direct line of history worth & when does one car finish & another start? Can one car become two & both lay claim to being the same one?
Even if Britto did build another chassis, that was definitely in the first half of 1968, not 1969 unless the year quoted on the CoD is incorrect.
My thoughts are that maybe Neil has the Jane Brabham with the Britto chassis (as raced by the Jane Org. after the Bathurst crash) and that Art has BT23E-1 with a repaired chassis. This would explain the existence of two cars.
#41
Posted 12 October 2007 - 00:52
Originally posted by giffo
.....Great Idea & since you suggested it I'd be very interested.....
Here's the gen from Britto...
He repaired the car for Jane, and built another chassis. He tells me he built about 11 BT23 chassis over the years, the other one he specifically mentioned was the replacement for Hulme's car.
#42
Posted 12 October 2007 - 01:09
Here's the gen from Britto...
He repaired the car for Jane, and built another chassis. He tells me he built about 11 BT23 chassis over the years, the other one he specifically mentioned was the replacement for Hulme's car.
and from David
My thoughts are that maybe Neil has the Jane Brabham with the Britto chassis (as raced by the Jane Org. after the Bathurst crash) and that Art has BT23E-1 with a repaired chassis. This would explain the existence of two cars.
I'd say both statements are correct! Ray's info form Britto being that a new chassis was built by him for the Jane BT23 & the Art has the repaired chassis. This does explain the existence of two cars & the acknowledgement that they both exist and share part of the same history.
Now how to get the original engine from Bob??? Without resorting to deep pockets!
BTW
Garry Cooper and others at the time recognized that the Jane was the Brabham BT23 and mentioned in his autobiography that “John Harvey raced ahead in his rechassised and rebodied Brabham Repco V8 called a Jane to win from Garrie and Bob”. In addition, Bob Jane also saw that there was only one car (BT23 and the Jane) as shown in his poster for the 1975 International Motor Show.
Now a question I asked on another thread & people have been reluctant to discuss
http://forums.autosp...&threadid=97357
Maybe I asked the wrong question?
#43
Posted 12 October 2007 - 07:58
The funny thing is that although they claim a broken upright, the still photos show the upright in one piece and the wheel studs without nuts. I also have read an interview with John Harvey and he says "a wheel fell off"Originally posted by Ray Bell
Bearing in mind that what's in the book is referenced from movie film of the incident, with details filled in by John Sawyer's investigations into the thing, I don't think there's any question that the facts there are right.
#44
Posted 12 October 2007 - 08:01
Was the "designers" name Bill Fell?Originally posted by kaydee
Ray, the Jane engine was not altogether a furphy........... it did partially exist....at least on paper that is.
I saw some of the original design drawings of it in the early '70s when Bob had his Race shop in Breece St Brunswick.
The designer (I can't remember his name) showed me some fairly amatuerish drawings of the cylinder head and block.
There was also an article in SCW with some talk about running the engine at Indy - but this was optimistic in the extreme.
The "designer" was more of a dreamer than a designer and didn't really understand the casting or manufacturing processes required to build an engine. I can remember him showing me a racing wheel that he'd "designed". It was a nice looking wheel but unfortunately he'd put the tyre well in the middle of the very wide rim and you were therefore unable to mount a tyre onto the rim.........
#45
Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:06
"They did break uprights," he said, "remember KB broke one at Bathurst. But Harvey reckoned that the wheel nuts hadn't been done up."
So the book, maybe, avoids a confrontation?
#46
Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:18
I'm not sure - it was a long time ago. I only met him the once and next time I was there he was gone and the project had been abandoned. Do you have any more background info?Originally posted by Catalina Park
Was the "designers" name Bill Fell?
#47
Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:26
I think so. Maybe Bill Tuckey didn't want to offend everyone.Originally posted by Ray Bell
Actually, Britto raised this subject today on the phone...
"They did break uprights," he said, "remember KB broke one at Bathurst. But Harvey reckoned that the wheel nuts hadn't been done up."
So the book, maybe, avoids a confrontation?
#48
Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:32
No, of course he doesn't... he leaves that to Romsey Quints...
#49
Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:34
I just have a story in a book called "Motor Racing the Australian Way" edited by Bryan Hanrahan, with a lot of stories that look like they were ghost written. One story is about running a racing team by John Sawyer. He ends up talking about the new engine that they were developing and how the original designer was Bill Fell. It sort of gives the impression that they took the idea and give Bill the flick.Originally posted by kaydee
I'm not sure - it was a long time ago. I only met him the once and next time I was there he was gone and the project had been abandoned. Do you have any more background info?
#50
Posted 14 October 2007 - 10:59
The HQ was acquired by Des Wall & is currently being restored.
Understand the Elfin 400 is back in Melbourne.
The Trans Am Mustang (Bobs 3rd Mustang) is reputedly in a US museum, restored in the US after Bob Stevens sold it on.
The 2nd Mustang is in the Bowden hands, to be rebuilt ?
The L34 sold on to Ian Diffen is still in WA?
Claims are made on a regular basis of ownership of the A9X shared with Pete Geoghegan.
There is also a Penske & the Nascars.
Saw a Lagonda 1980s vintage in recent days, road going.