19 replies to this topic

[sa87uk]

i'm newish to watching f1 and was wondering what the driver has to do from the point of slowing down onto the grid at the end of his parade lap to launching of the grid?? i.e clutch control??

also, is there anything he has to do to stop it from stalling if he spins of the track to a stand still??

cheers in advance

[le chat noir]

are you liz hurley?

its a start, not a launch.

there is no foot clutch, they have semi-auto gear boxes with paddle shift on the steering wheel.

so he just lines it up and selects gear at the right time.

an anti stall software program kicks in to prevent the engine stalling in a spin. sometimes this causes further problems in getting it back into gear, but at least it keeps the engine running - they have no starter motor on the car


- car launches happen over the winter when they present their new car to the press. to do this they build a new car, employ drivers, book a venue and invite the press. and then, mostly, lie - its common to see dc claim 'this is my year'

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by le chat noir

its a start, not a launch.

So why is it called 'launch control' then?

[le chat noir]

Originally posted by Buttoneer

So why is it called 'launch control' then?

it doesn't exist, so it isn't called anything.

- i was just remembering brundle's put down on liz at monaco a few years back. its not a launch though is it, something launched goes in the air, and generally, thats not what you want to happen in f1. maybe it controls it so it doesn't launch. maybe, like we have seen many times this year, the people in f1 are just a little inept, a little stupid.

[sa87uk]

Originally posted by le chat noir
are you liz hurley?

its a start, not a launch.

there is no foot clutch, they have semi-auto gear boxes with paddle shift on the steering wheel.

so he just lines it up and selects gear at the right time.

an anti stall software program kicks in to prevent the engine stalling in a spin. sometimes this causes further problems in getting it back into gear, but at least it keeps the engine running - they have no starter motor on the car


- car launches happen over the winter when they present their new car to the press. to do this they build a new car, employ drivers, book a venue and invite the press. and then, mostly, lie - its common to see dc claim 'this is my year'

well then why did they call it launch control and not start control, exactly!

[sa87uk]

Originally posted by le chat noir


it doesn't exist, so it isn't called anything.

- i was just remembering brundle's put down on liz at monaco a few years back. its not a launch though is it, something launched goes in the air, and generally, thats not what you want to happen in f1. maybe it controls it so it doesn't launch. maybe, like we have seen many times this year, the people in f1 are just a little inept, a little stupid.

it did exist though

[SuperDaan]

Originally posted by le chat noir
its common to see dc claim 'this is my year'

[le chat noir]

I"M JUST BEING FACETIOUS!

sorry no smilies. it was launch control, and it was used at starts. car launches happen in winter. now stop it!

[FrankB]

Originally posted by le chat noir


... something launched goes in the air...,

That could come as a bit of a surprise to some dignitary as they break a bottle of champagne across the bows of a ship... "I name this ship HMS WTF"

[le chat noir]

Originally posted by FrankB


That could come as a bit of a surprise to some dignitary as they break a bottle of champagne across the bows of a ship... "I name this ship HMS WTF"

too true you b****r. but in f1 its still the start when its a race, and a launch when they're showing the new car, like with ships, or books or magazines or websites or whatever.

now who can provide more info on my rather poor explanation as to the start procedure?

[rolf123]

Original launch control was banned - like traction control, it cut the power when the wheels spin too fast. It probably does other things too, all optimised for leaving the grid.

This traction control like system was banned but drivers today still use a type of launch control - I reckon it is engine maps and other stuff. Anything that is normally controlled by a knob on the wheel is a parameter that can be set to certain conditions optimum for launch.

Both have used a button - it is not always a case of simply upshifting the paddle thought it wouldn't surprise me if they all work that way now.

Bring back the foot or even the hand clutch I say! There's no skill left. Every human has 0.2 sec reaction time.

Anytime I hear a "fan" say that you need to have good reflexes to be an F1 driver, it makes me cringe! F1 driving has nothing to do with reflexes, except maybe the start and avoiding accidents, and we all have pretty much the same reflexes anyway.

[todayshorse]

Are they still using a hand clutch? For pitstops and the start? Thats why you see the car 'clunk' into gear, the driver holds in the paddle clutch, builds the revs, lights go out, release the clutch, go. I cant see any other way of it working, if there was no clutch, the car would creep, but would therefore have a fully auto box.

[MikeTekRacing]

Originally posted by rolf123


Bring back the foot or even the hand clutch I say! There's no skill left. Every human has 0.2 sec reaction time.

Anytime I hear a "fan" say that you need to have good reflexes to be an F1 driver, it makes me cringe! F1 driving has nothing to do with reflexes, except maybe the start and avoiding accidents, and we all have pretty much the same reflexes anyway.

with the first part I agree. there is nothing you cand do great or terrible at a start...there is a small window of failure for reaction time, but after that it depends on what car you are driving, and, lately on what side of the grid you are (i.e. clean side or dirty side). I think most of us would be able to have decent starts in these cars

on the second part...i don't agree with you. every F1 driver needs GREAT reflexes. do you think detecting wheelspin and lifting a little bit is not a reflex? do you think counter steering to keep the car on track isn't based on great reflexes? the feeling the driver has is more or less his ability to react QUICK...we all can sense a car sliding, but some can do it faster....sorry, but these are reflexes

[le chat noir]

Originally posted by MikeTekRacing


with the first part I agree. there is nothing you cand do great or terrible at a start...there is a small window of failure for reaction time, but after that it depends on what car you are driving, and, lately on what side of the grid you are (i.e. clean side or dirty side). I think most of us would be able to have decent starts in these cars

on the second part...i don't agree with you. every F1 driver needs GREAT reflexes. do you think detecting wheelspin and lifting a little bit is not a reflex? do you think counter steering to keep the car on track isn't based on great reflexes? the feeling the driver has is more or less his ability to react QUICK...we all can sense a car sliding, but some can do it faster....sorry, but these are reflexes

they're learnt reflexes tho. they learn to sense the slide, the reaction time from knowledge of what is going on is the same, they just know sooner.

this was discussed at length elsewhere when there wasn't so much nonsense about, so it did become quite argumentative also.

[MikeTekRacing]

of course they are learnt

the thing is, there should be no confusion between reflexes and reaction time.
when they sit on the grid KNOWING that the last light will go out of course there is not much to do wrong for anybody...I think anyone noticed that if the start is cancelled (yellow instead of "go") there are some drivers that move a little bit...this is because they are expecting a change and waiting for it..humans are pretty much level at this thing
but driving a car is not the same thing, you don't know what the car will do, you have to react very very quickly to changes (wheather it means brake/steer etc)

[Dragonfly]

AFAIK there are two levers on the steering wheel having to do with the clutch. One is the true clutch operating lever, the other one is used only for a few seconds before the start to fix the clutch at the position where it starts to "bite" (a certain amount of torque goes to the transmission but is negated by the brakes) and high enough revs are maintained by the engine management SW. When the lights go off simply releasing the second lever and the brake brings the car into movement in a relatively smooth manner. (Similar to when driving off a car up a hill with the help of the parking brake.)

[le chat noir]

Originally posted by MikeTekRacing
of course they are learnt

the thing is, there should be no confusion between reflexes and reaction time.
when they sit on the grid KNOWING that the last light will go out of course there is not much to do wrong for anybody...I think anyone noticed that if the start is cancelled (yellow instead of "go") there are some drivers that move a little bit...this is because they are expecting a change and waiting for it..humans are pretty much level at this thing
but driving a car is not the same thing, you don't know what the car will do, you have to react very very quickly to changes (wheather it means brake/steer etc)

but reflex learnt, is a reaction.
a reflex is natural - putting your hand in boiling water and pulling it out, taking a hammer to your knee.
if he's learnt to react, learnt to anticipate, what appears to be a reflex is a reaction. all the drivers will have similar reaction times, but those better in tune, will react earlier through earlier knowledge. i think we might just be talking semantics though, rather than what a driver is doing. you seem to say the lights thing is a reaction and the driving a reflex, while i'd have it the other way around. but in fact i wouldn't cos the lights is also a reaction. a reflex is an involuntary response, and that is not how they drive, a reaction time is static give or take in everyone, a reaction itself tho can be improved and achieved quicker, not by applying reflexes or improving reaction time, but by sensing the problem sooner and learning how to control the car better.

[Lurb]

All recent wheels I've seen pics of have two clutch paddles on them, below the gear change ones. I had thought both were the clutch for convenience, so they can do whatever button fiddling is needed or because one of them might be hard to reach with a turned wheel.

I wonder about the brakes. On some starts you definitely need them to keep the car from creeping down a slope, but I don't know about any automatic systems. I thought they just stepped on them until the lights went off and released the clutch paddle. Didn't Massa stall or something once this season?.

[wingwalker]

i think launch control not only activated TC but also changed gears so the driver really had not much to controlling his car-wise.

[panzani]

Originally posted by le chat noir
but reflex learnt, is a reaction.
a reflex is natural - putting your hand in boiling water and pulling it out, taking a hammer to your knee.
if he's learnt to react, learnt to anticipate, what appears to be a reflex is a reaction. all the drivers will have similar reaction times, but those better in tune, will react earlier through earlier knowledge. i think we might just be talking semantics though, rather than what a driver is doing. you seem to say the lights thing is a reaction and the driving a reflex, while i'd have it the other way around. but in fact i wouldn't cos the lights is also a reaction. a reflex is an involuntary response, and that is not how they drive, a reaction time is static give or take in everyone, a reaction itself tho can be improved and achieved quicker, not by applying reflexes or improving reaction time, but by sensing the problem sooner and learning how to control the car better.

Thankfully, neither Nobel prize laureated Ivan Petrovich Pavlov nor his dogs were able to read this insightful post in the dawn of the 20th century...