24 replies to this topic

[Bill Sherwood]

On Youtube - yes, the paragon of accuracy - someone wrote that the idle speed of an F1 engine was 7,000rpm. AFAIK they're closer to 2,500rpm.

Anyone know for sure? The other chaps says 7,000rpm because he heard Martin Brundle say it on TV.

[naiboz]

I read is was approx 5000-7000, no linkys for proof though, sorry

[phantom II]

Mike the Bikes 250cc 6 cylinder Honda stalled at 12 000, he broke it in a 14 000 and it revved to 26 000.

[shaun979]

In that old Cosworth V8 20,000 RPM dyno video the engine settled back to a 9000 RPM idle after the pull. Not saying that's what they idle at, but just a rough reference maybe? I recall reading something about minimum engine speed at Monaco and it wasn't too far away from that number.

Current Indycar engines redline at 10,300 RPM and idle at 3000 RPM, if that helps any. I would think F1 idle would be higher than this.

[Dallas84]

Originally posted by phantom II
Mike the Bikes 250cc 6 cylinder Honda stalled at 12 000, he broke it in a 14 000 and it revved to 26 000.

Two stroke or four stroke?

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by phantom II
Mike the Bikes 250cc 6 cylinder Honda stalled at 12 000, he broke it in a 14 000 and it revved to 26 000.

Phil Irving once said that a motorcycle company was running the tacho off the wrong timing gear to make it read double, he said that they did this to confuse the opposition. I wonder if he was refering to Honda?

[Lembit]

Toro Rosso STR1 had idle speed at 4000 rpm according to the people working on it. The limiting factor I am not sure, if I heard correctly "too much pressure on valvetrain".
Source of information: Red Bull demonstration team running Scott Speeds 2006 car this summer.

[WPT]

Posted by phantom II
Mike the Bikes 250cc 6 cylinder Honda stalled at 12 000, he broke it in a 14 000 and it revved to 26 000.

Honda's 250cc 6 cylinder (a four stroke with four valves per cylinder) reved to about 18,000. In 1967 Honda made a short stroke version that may have reved somewhat higher, but no where near 26,000. Honda made a 50cc twin that reved to 22,500 and a 125cc 5 cylinder that reved to 20,500. WPT

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by WPT

Honda's 250cc 6 cylinder (a four stroke with four valves per cylinder) reved to about 18,000. In 1967 Honda made a short stroke version that may have reved somewhat higher, but no where near 26,000. Honda made a 50cc twin that reved to 22,500 and a 125cc 5 cylinder that reved to 20,500. WPT

This is correct.

Honda's recent road going CBR250RR revs to 20,000 but idles quite happily just above 1000. Two strokes in fact dont rev as high, they just sound like they do, an example being (again) Honda's CR250 motocross bike that produces its 54hp at around 6000 rpm. But of course 2 strokes have twice as many bangs.

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by Bill Sherwood
On Youtube - yes, the paragon of accuracy - someone wrote that the idle speed of an F1 engine was 7,000rpm. AFAIK they're closer to 2,500rpm.

Anyone know for sure? The other chaps says 7,000rpm because he heard Martin Brundle say it on TV.

I wonder if they are given a false higher idle to keep them in a cleaner engine range? (on cam).

[Bill Sherwood]

Originally posted by cheapracer


I wonder if they are given a false higher idle to keep them in a cleaner engine range? (on cam).

I imagine with such low rotation inertia the idle is incredibly 'fragile' and so they probably idle them a bit faster than they would normally to make sure the slightest interuption didn't stop them.
I still reckon they could go as slow as the 2,000's, but breath on it and it'd stop.

[scarbs]

BMW have published their idle as 4000 rpm....

[snark]

Originally posted by shaun979
I recall reading something about minimum engine speed at Monaco and it wasn't too far away from that number.

I recall hearing during one of the telecasts (probably from Brundle) saying they dropped to 5000rpm for Loew's. I'm sorta sure that that was during last year's telecast, not this year's.

edit: Should have google'd first. In http://www.f1complet.../view/4219/365/ Mario Theissen says "The hairpin at the Grand Hotel is the only corner all year when engine speeds dip below 5,000 rpm."

[Bill Sherwood]

Originally posted by scarbs
BMW have published their idle as 4000 rpm....

Thanks, a definite answer.

[Orkun ÖZENER]

I think you could find more detailed information about idle speed of a formula 1 car at that paper (pdf format)

" Idle speed control of a F1 racing engine"

R. De Filippia, R. Scattolini, (Toyota Motorsport GmbH, Dipartimento di Elettronica e Informazione, Politecnico di Milano Piazza Leonardo da Vinci)

The paper is about idle speed control of Toyota F1 2003 car.

Best Regards

Orkun OZENER

[Bill Sherwood]

Originally posted by Orkun ÖZENER
I think you could find more detailed information about idle speed of a formula 1 car at that paper (pdf format)

" Idle speed control of a F1 racing engine"

R. De Filippia, R. Scattolini, (Toyota Motorsport GmbH, Dipartimento di Elettronica e Informazione, Politecnico di Milano Piazza Leonardo da Vinci)

The paper is about idle speed control of Toyota F1 2003 car.

Best Regards

Orkun OZENER

Thanks - A quick search did not reveal a link to download it?
Can you perhaps help a little more?;)

[Kalle_hopp]

Found it: http://files-upload....cing_engine.pdf

[zac510]

Thankyou!

[Bill Sherwood]

Yes, thanks.

[desmo]

Sorry. You can not download this file today. Download traffic for your country is empty.

[jb_128]

Thx, looks interesting. In case your country is on files-upload's rogue list try here: http://rapidshare.co...engine.pdf.html

[Mr_London]

Originally posted by snark


I recall hearing during one of the telecasts (probably from Brundle) saying they dropped to 5000rpm for Loew's. I'm sorta sure that that was during last year's telecast, not this year's.

edit: Should have google'd first. In http://www.f1complet.../view/4219/365/ Mario Theissen says "The hairpin at the Grand Hotel is the only corner all year when engine speeds dip below 5,000 rpm."

Think 5000 must be on track as some point, Brundle did mention that Mclaren have system that when the car is stationary cuts out some of the cylinders to keep the heat levels down. Therefore can remain station for long periods of time.

Does anyone have anymore information on this system?

Mr_London

[Ninja2b]

This system is now built into the spec ECU and so everyone will have it available to them next year. I'm not sure how much of the system info is in the public domain, so I can't go into details. But it's a pretty nice little system.

Idle of around 4,000 sounds about right.

[12.9:1]

Mclaren have a system that when the car is stationary cuts out some of the cylinders to keep the heat levels down.

As of the year 2000 the Cadillac Northstar 4.6 L V8 had just such a system.


"Another feature of the Northstar engines is a "limp home" mode that allows the engine to continue running if all the coolant is lost. If the PCM senses an overheating condition, it temporarily disables up to half of the cylinders. This pumps enough air though the engine to keep temperatures from getting hot enough to cause any damage. Even so, GM says the vehicle should not be driven more than 50 miles in the limp-home mode."


.

[Andy Donovan]

Originally posted by 12.9:1
"Another feature of the Northstar engines is a "limp home" mode that allows the engine to continue running if all the coolant is lost. If the PCM senses an overheating condition, it temporarily disables up to half of the cylinders. This pumps enough air though the engine to keep temperatures from getting hot enough to cause any damage.

Would this also be similar to the 'safe mode' that WRC cars sometimes switch to when they have problems?