79 replies to this topic

[britishtrident]

As it says on the tin Anybody got any old Ingliston pictures or stories ?

[Graham Gauld]

You could always try my book Scottish Motor Racing and Drivers (Plug) There is more than enough about Ingliston in that one.

But I will give you one which has always amused me. Did you know that Barry Sheene's first ever motor race was at Ingliston. He drove the "personality" BMW in the BMW Counties Championship back in the 1980's. He was very crafty. He realised Ingliston was a small circuit and most of the BMW Counties drivers had not driven there before and were raring to go when practice started. They all rushed out and got in each others way. Not Barry he waited until the last car went out and then went out and set up fastest lap for pole position.
At the end of the actual race, however, it was discovered that he did not have a valid competitions licence and was left out of the results, so, technically, it was not his first race. Good quiz question.

[Mistron]

I started a thread specifically on Ingliston back at the turn of the year. Try a search BB at the top of the page - i've never got searches to work all that well though.
Tread was based around photos showing my walk around a full lap.

I will upload some photos a friends dad took in the late '60s -early '70's to Flickr and add a link.

[Mistron]

Right, hope the link works.

http://www.flickr.co...57602564125855/

Also, there was a guy who had a website dedicated to knockhill and Ingliston photos - lots of maguire imps etc. Try a Google search, it's a whils eince I looked for it, but it also had Campbell Mclaren in his DB4 Zagato and GT40, as well as various others. Perhaps the best was the Lawrence Jacobsen Stilletto Imp bodied Chevron sports car , the 'Chimp'

[britishtrident]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
You could always try my book Scottish Motor Racing and Drivers (Plug) There is more than enough about Ingliston in that one.

But I will give you one which has always amused me. Did you know that Barry Sheene's first ever motor race was at Ingliston. He drove the "personality" BMW in the BMW Counties Championship back in the 1980's. He was very crafty. He realised Ingliston was a small circuit and most of the BMW Counties drivers had not driven there before and were raring to go when practice started. They all rushed out and got in each others way. Not Barry he waited until the last car went out and then went out and set up fastest lap for pole position.
At the end of the actual race, however, it was discovered that he did not have a valid competitions licence and was left out of the results, so, technically, it was not his first race. Good quiz question.

Ah yes I remenber it well -- istr Tom Walkinshaw ran that BMW circus.

I also remember Andrew Cowan doing a guest appearance in the SMT Chunky Chicken Production Saloon Firenza and coming across the finish line backwards

Ingliston was a magic circuit I loved Areana you knew you were on the edge when you could feel the outside rear wheel run on the cobbles at the crossing .

[Glengavel]

The only way to get to the Ingliston infield was in between races, when you could walk across the track. I remember one poor chap who had gone to get a couple of ice-creams, didn't make it back in time, and was stranded on the outside, holding a couple of rapidly-melting cones.

At the sub-Arctic tundra of Knockhill, melting ice-cream isn't a problem!

[Mistron]

http://www.iainsnico.../ingliston.html

[britishtrident]

The old Ingliston hands would tell newbies "You don't know Ingliston until you have been round the the side of Tree 1

[Graham Gauld]

I am sure that most people do not understand what Britishtrident is talking about. Ingliston was famous for a formidable oak tree on the outside of the exit from the hairpin bend. To my knowledge nobody ever actually hit the tree which confirms my believe that a racing driver seeing a formidable object that could damage his car will naturally try and avoid it. However, Keith Schellenberg was a regular competitor with his big Barnatto-Hassan Bentley and had great difficulty getting round the hairpin. As a result he was given special dispensation to drive off the circuit, round the oak tree and return to the circuit without penalty. Some years later the Royal Highland Society, owners of the land, cut the tree down.

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
Keith Schellenberg was a regular competitor with his big Barnatto-Hassan Bentley and had great difficulty getting round the hairpin. As a result he was given special dispensation to drive off the circuit, round the oak tree and return to the circuit without penalty.

Never man to worry himself with convention. Didn't he enter one of the Marathon Rallies in his Rolls Royce? And doesn't he actually own a Scottish island?

[ian senior]

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks


Never man to worry himself with convention. Didn't he enter one of the Marathon Rallies in his Rolls Royce? And doesn't he actually own a Scottish island?

He took a vintage Bentley on one of them - the first London-Sydney?

[David McKinney]

..and I don't think he owns his island any more
GG will know...

[Gregor Marshall]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
You could always try my book Scottish Motor Racing and Drivers (Plug) There is more than enough about Ingliston in that one.

But I will give you one which has always amused me. Did you know that Barry Sheene's first ever motor race was at Ingliston. He drove the "personality" BMW in the BMW Counties Championship back in the 1980's. He was very crafty. He realised Ingliston was a small circuit and most of the BMW Counties drivers had not driven there before and were raring to go when practice started. They all rushed out and got in each others way. Not Barry he waited until the last car went out and then went out and set up fastest lap for pole position.
At the end of the actual race, however, it was discovered that he did not have a valid competitions licence and was left out of the results, so, technically, it was not his first race. Good quiz question.

Are you sure about that Graham? I'm sure he did the '79 TT with Derek Bell in a Golf sponsored by Akai or Minolta??

I have some pictures of my Dad racing Old Nail at Ingliston and some video of a few races there.

The SMT Chunky Chickens Firenza I would assume is the one dad used on the Tour of Britain in 1975, it went backwards a lot then too!!

[bradbury west]

Originally posted by David McKinney
..and I don't think he owns his island any more
GG will know...

IIRC, there was a legislation change, crofters' rights?, which enabled the inhabitants of said island, Eigg, to claim ownership . ISTR that the process became very litigious and unpleasant for KS

Roger Lund

[Graham Gauld]

Gregor,
Remember your dad well - indeed for years been trying to forget !!!! - He was always great fun at Ingliston battling against Bill "Twiggy" Dryden and Jim Clark's cousin, Douglas Niven. I was led to believe that it was Barry's first race and I only said in the '80's because I had forgotten the date. I know it was two or three years before Hugh McCaig and I took over the running of the circuit and we did that in 1982. I know that on closer observation Barry had presented his International motor cycle licence and not a car one.

Reference Keith Schellenberg - another plug coming - I am in the midst of writing his biography and he did not only the London Sydney Marathon but the World Cup rally in his "Rally" 8 litre Bentley which he still owns alongside the 3/4 1/2 racing Bentley, the Margaret Allen car, plus another Bentley Tourer. He sold the Barnato-Hassan about nine months ago to a German enthusiast.

The Island of Eigg story is a sad one as Keith was literally forced out by some of the incomers but not the few native islanders. The last straw was when they burned down a building in which he kept his Rolls Royce.I saw the burned out remains just a few weeks ago.

His life story is not just a motoring one and he is a true adventurer as well as an ex-British Olympic Luge captain , former Yorkshire County rugby captain as well as a real British character. I say British for though he was born in the North of England he spent most of his life in Scotland.

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld

His life story is not just a motoring one and he is a true adventurer as well as an ex-British Olympic Luge captain , former Yorkshire County rugby captain as well as a real British character. I say British for though he was born in the North of England he spent most of his life in Scotland.

We were lucky enough to share a table with Keith & his wife at the Goodwood ball a few years ago.

Apart from the stories what made it even more amusing was that the rest of the table were Germanic (one of whom really was called Herman!), we assumed someone had looked at Keith's surname and assumed he was some kind of Johnny Foreigner.... needless to say this particular collector of Bentley's etc is somewhat patriotic......

[jamesmac80]

Formula Libra was always an impressive thing to see round such a tight track. I remember watching morning practice at Caravan corner and looking down the Esses, only to see Ian McLaren in his ex Brett Lunger McLaren M26 skip over the armco barrier, straight into the spectator area! a few spectators took a tumble and the podium they were standing on took a big hit. No serious injury thankfully!

[britishtrident]

Up to the second half of the 1970s the spectator barriers were very close to the track by modern standards particularly at the Esses.

Personally I got just too close a view of Dougie Niven's Boss Escort when it jumped the single height armco just after Back Stand.

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by jamesmac80
... only to see Ian McLaren in his ex Brett Lunger McLaren M26 skip over the armco barrier, straight into the spectator area! ...

Now there's an interesting pairing. What was the suitably named Mr McLaren's racing background prior to appearing with the M26 and how extensively did he race it at the time? And, for that matter, what happened to him and the car?

[Graham Gauld]

Simon

Iain McLaren started out with, I think, a Lotus VII and set up a very successful BMC agency in , Broxburn, West Lothian. He progressed fast and was very talented in things like Chevrons. He bought the famous Brian Redman "Chocolate Drop" car and followed it up with another but new Chevron. He had a single seater Chevron for a short time and also bought one of Ron Dennis' own Formula 2 cars which strengthened his friendship with Ron Dennis and made it easier for him to buy a McLaren M23.I will have to check up on which actual car he bought. By this time his business was expanding rapidly so he pulled out of racing then sold his franchises and moved to Ayrshire moving into yachts. I believe he then went to Spain and further believe he is now back in Scotland somewhere in the West. A really nice guy who was also a very competent driver. Here is a pic of him at Ingliston with his new black Chevron B36

[simonlewisbooks]

Thanks Graham,
I remember the M26 well - and the name naturally sticks in the memory as well. Great shot of the Chevron and a nice atmospheric bit of Ingliston in the background...

Was the track's closure down to reasons other than the upgrading of Knockhill and it's increasing stature ?

[Graham Gauld]

Simon:
The situation with Ingliston was very simple. From 1983 until 1991 Hugh McCaig and I held the franchise to run motor racing on the circuit from the Royal Highland and Agricultural Society. The running costs were considerable as we had to take down all the armco after the May race meeting so that the Royal Highland Show could take place and then put it all back up again in time for the July race meeting so that was one expense. As competitors at the time will know Hugh and I kept telling drivers not to go over the kerbs to cut the corners as, in May and October, we used to receive bills of up to £3,000 a time just to returf the edges of the circuit where drivers were taking short cuts. We also had annual RAC visits to update the safety side. We also had to pay the RHAS a fee for the use of the circuit,and at the end of the day it was proving to be uneconomic and we withdrew. However, former Formula Ford Champion Tom Brown was keen to see if he could make a go of it and he took over the franchise but sadly he too realised it could not be made to pay and so Ingliston stopped because it proved uneconomic. By this time Scottish Motor Racing Club were also running meetings at Knockhill so our Championships covered both circuits. It became a seamless and perfectly amicable arrangement to run all future meetings at Knockhill and it has remained so until this day.

[brakedisc]

Many fond memories of the place. Great little circuit and still used each april by Dunfermline car club as the venue for a stage rally. Circuit is complete apart from the stand on the start finish line. Tom Brown did try to keep the circuit alive but lack of support from certain quarters did not help him and I believe a long running court case involving the RHAS has been concluded in his favour. Scottish Motorsport has never been the same since it was lost to the SMRC.


When Barry Sheene came in 1979 I was racing in the FF race. We all sat in the competitors granstand to watch him and it made my day when his girlfriend, Stephanie McLean, sat down beside me to watch him race.

Eigg and KS,

Please be aware that there are two sides to every story. Been going there for over twenty years and all I can say is that the level of improvement post Keith Schellenberg is stunning.

[britishtrident]

I suspect Ian MacLaren may have been a bit more than competent looking back in his Chevron period I can't recall him ever having "an off" at Ingliston A 3 litre 70's F1 car would of course "a mite trickier" to drive in the tight unforgiving confines of Ingliston.

Looking back Ingliston was so tight and confined that it hard to believe now, no wonder local specialist so often had an advantage.
Of course one of the exceptions was Gerry Marshall the memory of the original Big Bertha drifting back stand is one I will always remember --- ace car --- cracking guy.

[David McKinney]

A bit OTT, but wasn't he Iain McLaren?

[jamesmac80]

Yes, it was Iain McLaren.

I seem to remember Iain having "an off" when he was racing a Super Saloon Skoda, this car was white with a brown vinyl roof! He came off at Arena and tore all the bodywork off the rear. He raced it again at the next meeting with a repaired rear end all in primer. That was when he entered the M26 and Skoda in the same meetings.

Oh! - I went to school in Edinburgh with Iain's son, Bruce. [an obvious choice of name!]

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by jamesmac80
Yes, it was Iain McLaren.

That was when he entered the M26 and Skoda in the same meetings.

The days when such exotic equipment used to appear in Libre events at small circuits and not a silencer in sight.
Castle Combe used to be quite similar : Lola T330, McLaren M30 etc in the Libre event then a bunch of wild noisy saloons and modsports in the "GT" series .
To see just one real F1 car in the paddock at an otherwise low-key club event was such an exciting prospect in those days. Somehow even a good grid of Historic F1s doesn't quite capture it today - which sounds daft even to me - and I just said it - but maybe the rest of you know what I mean?

[britishtrident]

I seem to remember somebody turned up to a libre race with a Chevrolet powered ex F1 Cooper Maserati --- I remember thinking what an ungainly looking botch ---- and I don't mean the Chevy conversion.

[Bruce Fullerton]

My first memories of motorsport were standing, terrified, next to the armco at the Esses watching various Libre races with my Dad. Guys like Jock Russell in F5000's through there were probably responsable for my racing today. I still get goosebumps thinking about the sheer violence of those cars in that confined space! Oh what I would give to be able to take my car there today and have a few laps....

[Mistron]

Originally posted by Bruce Fullerton
Oh what I would give to be able to take my car there today and have a few laps....

The gates between the museum and the car auction are usually open.............;)

[Bruce Fullerton]

Mistron - I like your style - what a tempting idea! Would you come and bail me out when the Glasgow police came because of the noise and not just the Edinburgh lot?

[Alan Cox]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
Iain McLaren started out with, I think, a Lotus VII and set up a very successful BMC agency in , Broxburn, West Lothian...... A really nice guy who was also a very competent driver.

[Mistron]

Originally posted by Bruce Fullerton
Mistron - I like your style - what a tempting idea! Would you come and bail me out when the Glasgow police came because of the noise and not just the Edinburgh lot?

I don't know about that, but if we both said John Smeaton told us it was illegal to park at the airport with full petrol tanks before going on holiday, and so we were just draining them down in a hurry, do you think they would believe us?

[Bruce Fullerton]

Anything would be worth a try for a wee nip round...though I'm not sure if the "going on holiday" bit would stack up when they checked the Lola's luggage carrying capacity!

[simonlewisbooks]

Sounds like you chaps need to organise an Ingliston retro event (how many years since it was opened?) and give yourselves the opportunity!

[Graham Gauld]

Simon:

Missed it, the fortieth anniversary of Ingliston was in 2005....

[jamesmac80]

Alan,

Great photo of Iain McLaren.

Norman Dickson's Lotus 78 was another F1 car that sticks in my mind, along with the occasional Surtees. I remember Russell Spence demonstrating the Warmastyle sponsored Fittapaldi F1. - Photos anyone?

It seemed, in these days that the physical size of an F1 car compared to it's smaller brothers - F3, F2, F Atlantic cars etc, made them all the more impressive, especially around the tight Ingliston. Today's F1 cars are as small and compact as todays F3 cars!

James

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
Simon:

Missed it, the fortieth anniversary of Ingliston was in 2005....

Bugger - but then only 3 more years to the 45th..... and a celebration of all things Scottish in Motor Sport perhaps?

Or maybe a 2009 event to mark 40 years since JYS's first world title?

Ingliston, being a showground, seems like the ideal venue.... room for an exhibition, a special stage and a demo sprint round the old circuit maybe? A kind of "McRace-Retro"...

I've never been to Scotland, it would give me another good reason to pack the van and head up the motorway.

[Bruce Fullerton]

Well if that happens and we can run demo laps I would come up from London with the car - could probably persuade another couple of F5000's to come as well for the crack.

[Mallory Dan]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
Simon

Iain McLaren started out with, I think, a Lotus VII and set up a very successful BMC agency in , Broxburn, West Lothian. He progressed fast and was very talented in things like Chevrons. He bought the famous Brian Redman "Chocolate Drop" car and followed it up with another but new Chevron. He had a single seater Chevron for a short time and also bought one of Ron Dennis' own Formula 2 cars which strengthened his friendship with Ron Dennis and made it easier for him to buy a McLaren M23.I will have to check up on which actual car he bought. By this time his business was expanding rapidly so he pulled out of racing then sold his franchises and moved to Ayrshire moving into yachts. I believe he then went to Spain and further believe he is now back in Scotland somewhere in the West. A really nice guy who was also a very competent driver. Here is a pic of him at Ingliston with his new black Chevron B36

Graham, Iain M bought his M26 from the B&S Team, who'd run Brett Linger in it in 1978, not the works Mclaren team. It was M26/6. Prior to this, he'd run F2 Chevrons, a B35 then B40, in Libre plus some G8 and Aurora races. As you say he also had Chocolate Drop, and a B36 too.

Conincidentally, I was in Edinburgh this week, and noted the cranes working were Bernard Hunter's, another Scottish libre legend!

[jamesmac80]

Another "crane man" was Jimmy Jack from Evanton. His green and white "James Jack Crane Hire" chevron was always in the Libra race.

Many cranes you see dotted in Edinburgh and around Scotland are either Bernard Hunter or James Jack!

More local Libra drivers were:

George Macmillan [Bass Rock Garage] Ralt.
David Duffield [Caledon Coal] Ralt.
David Leslie [Hope Scott Garage]. Ralt.
Andrew Jeffries [Hope Scott Garage] Chevron.
George Franchitti.
Colin Richardson.

[bradbury west]

On a more mundane level does anyone have any photographs or grid positions or entry lists etc of FFord cars at Ingliston in 1970/71?

Roger Lund.

[britishtrident]

The spaceframe Sunbeam Stiletto Jimmy Jack had the late Adrian Evans of Davrian build was indecently fast and I think the best looking Imp bodied Donnington GT cars although hillclimbs were its main intended use.

[jamesmac80]

Originally posted by bradbury west
On a more mundane level does anyone have any photographs or grid positions or entry lists etc of FFord cars at Ingliston in 1970/71?

Roger Lund.

Roger, I have programs form 72 onward [great ebay purchase] but none from 70/71 I'm afraid, let me know if you need any info. from them.

James Mackay.

[bradbury west]

James, many thanks
RL

[Phil Rainford]

Originally posted by jamesmac80
Another "crane man" was Jimmy Jack from Evanton. His green and white "James Jack Crane Hire" chevron was always in the Libra race.

Many cranes you see dotted in Edinburgh and around Scotland are either Bernard Hunter or James Jack!

More local Libra drivers were:

George Macmillan [Bass Rock Garage] Ralt.
David Duffield [Caledon Coal] Ralt.
David Leslie [Hope Scott Garage]. Ralt.
Andrew Jeffries [Hope Scott Garage] Chevron.
George Franchitti.
Colin Richardson.

Could this be the Chevron with slightly modified bodywork?

[Clyde Peffar]

Is that "Lancia" not one of Jim McGaughey's creartions, the follow up to his Renault 5 Maxi ?

The blue Maguire Lotus Esprit alongside is another Ingliston car although that photo is Donington with Geoff Farmer. The car was built by John Maguire for John Bothamley using the Norman Dickson March Hart 792 as the donor for engine , gearbox and all the running gear. The tub and bodywork were sold to Norrie Galbraith shortly before he was killed, I think he intended updating the March 782 (?) that he was hillclimbing

[Clyde Peffar]

I should have said the tub and bodywork from the 792 were sold to Norrie Galbraith. The Esprit was one of John Maguires spaceframes.

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Phil Rainford


Could this be the Chevron with slightly modified bodywork?

I think the 'Lancia' was based on a Lola-built Toleman TG250 F2 chassis.

[Tom MacMillan]

Does anyone remember Eddie Cheever driving Jimmy Jack's March 772 at Ingliston and blowing everyone else away? I think maybe 1979.
If you ever meet Jimmy and ask him about this, make sure you have time to spare!