149 replies to this topic

[lukywill]

As the maths were so tight and the political show in the press shadow was so great was the championship fixed by outside doors?

[Tigershark]

Possibly, but it failed regardless.;)

In other words, no. You can't 'fix' a sport like this as shown by Hamilton's problems yesterday.

[Group B]

I've no idea what you're talking about lucky

[lukywill]

Originally posted by Tigershark


In other words, no. You can't 'fix' a sport like this as shown by Hamilton's problems yesterday.

what do you mean?
hamilton´s problems were obvious? expected?

[ensign14]

The WCC was fixed, the WDC not.

[Risil]

I'm voting option 3, simply because it's the syntactic equivalent of a plane crash.

[tifosi]

Ye sit was fixed but I'm loving it, because despite McLaren's pathetic attempt to fix the championship a true champion emerged anyway.

[ensign14]

Hm, an interesting insight into the morals of the tifosi. Ferrari all the way and **** the sport.

[tifosi]

Originally posted by ensign14
Hm, an interesting insight into the morals of the tifosi. Ferrari all the way and **** the sport.

You really need a life, you take entertainment too seriously.

[Mrv]

Originally posted by ensign14
Hm, an interesting insight into the morals of the tifosi. Ferrari all the way and **** the sport.

It was Mclaren that ****ed the sport.

[freeloader]

A few weeks ago Ecclestone was saying "Hamilton will win, he's been oustanding..."

Yesterday on the grid he said "Hamilton's turn will come soon..."

He clearly knew the plot

[Dudley]

He also said Alonso would win.

[qvn]

Originally posted by lukywill
As the maths were so tight and the political show in the press shadow was so great was the championship fixed by outside doors?

It would not be a fix if Alonso wins.

[lukywill]

Originally posted by qvn


It would not be a fix if Alonso wins.

last poll showed a massive majority in favor a tainted 2007 championship. (when mclaren drivers largely lead...)

[yr]

Originally posted by freeloader
A few weeks ago Ecclestone was saying "Hamilton will win, he's been oustanding..."

Yesterday on the grid he said "Hamilton's turn will come soon..."

He clearly knew the plot

He also said that both Raikkonen (especially) and Alonso were not a champions he would like to see. He said, Fernando gave nothing to the sport in his WDC years and that Kimi barely talks to anyone. He also said that Lewis Hamilton would be perfect champion for the sport.

Considering all that, why would they fix WDC in favour the worst ambassador available to win that fixed championship?

[brunopascal]

No.

Wasn't Kimi regarded as a potentially "bad" WDC because he doesn't smile and do much pro-F1 stuff?
So in the "interest" of the sport LH might have been a better WDC. Yet Kimi won.

Some control enough variables to influence the WDC & WCC, but I can't believe anyone controls enough to fix it.

[ensign14]

And on the grid he said he didn't want Hamilton to win. Bernie = troll.

[lukywill]

too true about bernie ensign.

it´s not that kimi doesn´t desert the wdc - he certainly deserves lookink at his f1 seasons - but this season he must thanks the spy gate.

also it wasn´t at all like 1986. that year the atmosphere was quite different. a lot of excitement after the race.

it seams to me that this year we had a 'moral' winner and a popular one. against racing, mclaren crooks and transparency.

[mclarensmps]

Originally posted by Mrv


It was Mclaren that ****ed the sport.

It is Ferrari who always ****s the sport

[Zmeej]

Originally posted by others

A few weeks ago Ecclestone was saying "Hamilton will win, he's been oustanding..."

Yesterday on the grid he said "Hamilton's turn will come soon..."
...
He also said that both Raikkonen (especially) and Alonso were not a champions he would like to see. He said, Fernando gave nothing to the sport in his WDC years and that Kimi barely talks to anyone. He also said that Lewis Hamilton would be perfect champion for the sport...

Ecclestone has also said it would have been nice if Lewis was Jewish. In fact, Bernoid has become the equivalent of a word-permutation machine. I think that he's morphed into a squid and defeats paranoid inquiry by letting off ink-clouds: agreeing with everything, or with nothing, and suggesting everything.


Anyway, since I'd become fixated on "Anyone but Hamilton," and since I like Kimi, have lost the plot of the Ferrari fix. However, it's not hard to see how this season was the result of a Master Manipulation, a campaign of "See, We Can Do It Without Schumi."

Just put on a Frans/Pynchon Helmet and it will become clear.

[freeloader]

Originally posted by yr


He also said that both Raikkonen (especially) and Alonso were not a champions he would like to see. He said, Fernando gave nothing to the sport in his WDC years and that Kimi barely talks to anyone. He also said that Lewis Hamilton would be perfect champion for the sport.

Considering all that, why would they fix WDC in favour the worst ambassador available to win that fixed championship?

He later said some very positive things about Alonso's reign as champion to the Spanish media, and explained his previous comments about Alonso as:

“To say that Fernando has done little for Formula 1 would be to lie. He could always be counted on when we asked for assistance at promotional events"

“Sometimes when you speak you are thinking a thing and you think you have expressed it, but when you see it in writing it doesn't represent what you meant, or they have not understood it, or you have not explained yourself."

Like Alonso, Ecclestone tailors his comments to his audience...

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Zmeej

Ecclestone has also said it would have been nice if Lewis was Jewish.

Note to self: find Chinese-Arabian disabled lesbian and get her a drive.

[Zmeej]

Zackly.

[lukywill]

Originally posted by Zmeej

Ecclestone has also said it would have been nice if Lewis was Jewish.

he forgot that amati was a woman. and achieved 0.5 point in the brabham. what a pile of wasted pounds.

[ensign14]

It was Lella Lombardi who had 0.5 points. Amati couldn't get within a century of qualifying.

Although if Hamilton were Jewish the Bahrain GP might be interesting.

[lukywill]

Originally posted by ensign14
It was Lella Lombardi who had 0.5 points. Amati couldn't get within a century of qualifying.

Although if Hamilton were Jewish the Bahrain GP might be interesting.

light pod wise?

[FLB]

Originally posted by Zmeej

Ecclestone has also said it would have been nice if Lewis was Jewish.

Pffftt, been done before (Stirling Moss is Jewish, so is Jody Scheckter)

[Risil]

Originally posted by ensign14

Although if Hamilton were Jewish the Bahrain GP might be interesting.

Isn't it Israelis who can't get in to those countries (if Bahrain is indeed one of them)? Seem to remember something about the Chelsea defender Ben Haim being refused entry to Dubai for Bolton's R&R weekend. Instead of cancelling, they just sent him back home!

[Zmeej]

indeed.

[Pushkin]

"Isn't it Israelis who can't get in to those countries?"

Not just Israelis. One of my colleagues has two passports as he can't use the one that he's been to Israel on when he goes to Saudi!

[Schumeister]

Originally posted by lukywill

it´s not that kimi doesn´t desert the wdc - he certainly deserves lookink at his f1 seasons - but this season he must thanks the spy gate.

What has Spygate got to do with the WDC? Mclaren got to keep there drivers points, so it was game on.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Pushkin
"Isn't it Israelis who can't get in to those countries?"

Not just Israelis. One of my colleagues has two passports as he can't use the one that he's been to Israel on when he goes to Saudi!

Yes, if you have a stamp from "occupied Palestine" you can't get into some countries. It's one of the reasons why, if you want a fake passport, Israeli ones come cheap. (Liechtenstein and Switzerland, however...ouch.)

[Group B]

Originally posted by ensign14

Yes, if you have a stamp from "occupied Palestine" you can't get into some countries. It's one of the reasons why, if you want a fake passport, Israeli ones come cheap. (Liechtenstein and Switzerland, however...ouch.)

And the reason you know that ensign ...

[noikeee]

With the amount of controversies, fines and penalties being thrown all over the place, it's hard not to pick the "it's been fixed" option, even if not every decision was "fixed" in the same direction!

[Arrows4Ever]

Originally posted by Mrv


It was Mclaren that ****ed the sport.

RESPONSE:

Originally posted by The Big Guns


It is Ferrari who always ****s the sport

WOW!!!
Quite the debate!!!;)

[Group B]

And this is the high-brow thread ;)

[Kim's a Kimi Fan]

Originally posted by lukywill
it seams to me that this year we had a 'moral' winner and a popular one.

Kimi was the moral winner and Kimi was the popular winner so Kimi is the right winner and right now Kimi is probably the drunk or hungover winner!!

[F575 GTC]

Had Hamilton won it - and if he still does via the appeal - then you might get more people saying it was fixed. Certainly wasn't fixed for Kimi though.

[robnyc]

Originally posted by Kim's a Kimi Fan
Kimi was the moral winner and Kimi was the popular winner so Kimi is the right winner and right now Kimi is probably the drunk or hungover winner!!

this cracked me up...

Q. Are you going to dance the samba tonight?

Kimi: “I don’t know about dancing. I am not going to be in condition for dancing.........."

[robnyc]

Originally posted by F575 GTC
Had Hamilton won it - and if he still does via the appeal - then you might get more people saying it was fixed. Certainly wasn't fixed for Kimi though.

the bigger question is what would people have said if Alonso won over Kimi with help from Lewis similar to what Massa did to help Kimi.?

[F575 GTC]

Well if Alonso won - bearing in mind what we've read from both sides of the McLaren garage all year - would it be classed as being fixed? I'd really doubt that; if anything that would be the one result that would be the most likely not to be pre-planned. Would Lewis help Alonso to win it? I doubt it.

If Lewis won it and Alonso was running second; that might get some cries of it being fixed.

[dworsham]

could you please add a choice:

oh my god., are you kidding?

[lukywill]

no i´m not. i really think this smells funny.

hamilton´s problems with the gear are suspicious.

the fia wanted to punish mclaren for their wrong doings but establish the drivers points as polite.

raikonen win was a political one.

[Sakae]

Maybe championship wasn't fixed, but surely I can find a lot of reasons to think that LH is receiving a lot of help. People tripping over themselves to be "correct" as far as he is concerned (his intentions, statements, writings, etc.). He simply cannot do any wrong.

I wish half of the courtesy would have been extended to some other famous driver of the past, when the same people were reading his entrails, tea leaves, and declared all of it as "factual and acurate". I am also damn sure when insult was issued, no appology followed next or any other day.

Some of the issues on the track concerning the team or him directly, I think he had received more of a benefit of the doubt then any other driver I know about. From that angle I would say F1 is out of balance, and I cannot helped to think that Ferrari was punished for something he got away with (keeping his grid position). I think Kubica got punished because of his driving, and there are some other examples one could question fairness how individually these incidents were evaluated.

WDC 2007 is tainted.
WCC 2007 was almost tainted.

[ensign14]

Well, the first conspiracy theory I heard was on Radio 5 straight after the race - a bookmaker saying that there had been an astonishing amount of bets on Raikkonen winning, and the immediate thought that McLaren were not slung out so long as they gave up the drivers' title on track.

[lukywill]

you listen to much radio 5 radiations.

that doesn´t make the bet´s poor. but even itv censor the pc if hamilton is not there.

[airflow]

Was the 2007 Championship fixed?

Yes.

In the course of WMRC hearing McLaren was found guilty. The team was booted from the constructors championship. The logical solution would have been to explude Hamilton and Alonso from the drivers championship too, because they obviously benefited from using the car that utilized Ferrari's intellectual property.

But FIA couldn't just kick Lewis Hamilton from the championship. British public wouldn't have accepted that, and you know, Britain plays prominent role in Formula 1. So FIA were interested in finding an avenue to gift WDC to Ferrari without alienating British public too much.

Montezemolo was interested in this spectacle, because if the public in Italy had been convinced that Raikkonen is capable of winning the title on the track, this would have further justified the decision to pay him $50 ml per year. That's why Ferrari didn't protest when FIA officially allowed McLaren drivers to fight for the title.

McLaren really had no option but to agree to play their part. They wouldn't have been allowed to take this title anyway. Perhaps, Ron was promised some "carrot" in the form of mitigation of fine or something like this.

This theory dawned upon me some 60 hours before the start of the race in Brazil, just in time to make a lucky bet.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by airflow

In the course of WMRC hearing McLaren was found guilty. The team was booted from the constructors championship. The logical solution would have been to explude Hamilton and Alonso from the drivers championship too, because they obviously benefited from using the car that utilized Ferrari's intellectual property.

Well it's all going well until that statement which is patently false.

[airflow]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Well it's all going well until that statement which is patently false.

lets assume you are right. Why was McLaren excluded from constructors then? You have to be consistent, you know. Constructors ban is a tough penalty => McLaren must have done something really bad to get this kind of penalty. If McLaren as a team did gain an unfair advantage, then drivers as part of the team gained advantage too. Drivers should share the penalty ( e.g. Button lost his points for Imola 05 when BAR was found guilty of using secret fuel tank)

PS: you shouldn't take this statement as an attack against McLaren.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by airflow
Why was McLaren excluded from constructors then?

Because of actions (moreover those of Mike Coughlan) being in direct violation of the sporting regs.

Originally posted by airflow
If McLaren as a team did gain an unfair advantage, then drivers as part of the team gained advantage too.

Possibly - but that couldn't be proven and the FIA in no part wanted to go that way (as shown by their lack of willingness to investigate the car).