75 replies to this topic

[Taxi]

Enough of "kimi is sooo cool and great" and "Mclaren stupid losers"

Ralf may just have made his last race in Brasil. I don't know how people "hate" him so much. probabily co's he is brother of Michael.
When he started F1 in 1997 there was 3 other great promisses: Fisichella, Trulli and Wurz. People use to say that they had the potencial to win WC. None got even close. Even so , Ralf Schumacher might as well finish as the best of the four in Curriculum, and he had a few great performances on track.

I propose to look at the best. I was impressed in 1999, 2001, 2003 [till the accident] and 2005...

[karlth]

Originally posted by Taxi
Enough of "kimi is sooo cool and great" and "Mclaren stupid losers"

Ralf may just have made his last race in Brasil. I don't know how people "hate" him so much. probabily co's he is brother of Michael.
When he started F1 in 1997 there was 3 other great promisses: Fisichella, Trulli and Wurz. People use to say that they had the potencial to win WC. None got even close. Even so , Ralf Schumacher might as well finish as the best of the four in Curriculum, and he had a few great performances on track.

I propose to look at the best. I was impressed in 1999, 2001, 2003 [till the accident] and 2005...

In 1999 and 2000 Ralf's status was similar to Rosberg's this year. Then in early 2001 before Montoya powerered past he was by some considered Michael's equal.

Ralf did always have a major problem with wheel to wheel situations so in a thight race he would often just disappear down the order and then crash.

[giacomo]

The major Ralf moment was in his Williams years. When he was following slower rivals on track without even making attempts to overtake; simply waiting for a pit stop or a mistake never to happen.

[DavidR]

I never thought of it that way... that is right. Fisichella, Trulli and Wurz were the other young names from that time and Ralf has achieved the most.

[ensign14]

He's of the same generation as David Coulthard and didn't achieve as much as him.

[Haddock]

When the car was to his liking, he could be right there. Think how he destroyed Alex Zanardi...

Come to that, when the Williams was really hooked up in 2003, he could often extract more from it than Juan Montoya. His out-racing of Montoya in Magny Cours set off the chain of events that sent the Columbian to Mclaren. I think I'd have that down as his greatest victory, although he was also one of just 2 men to beat the Ferraris in 2002 - no mean feat either.

He was never much of a 'racer' though...and certainly not a driver I particularly liked. I guess the late 90s crop of drivers just never quite lived up to their potential. I think Trulli and Fisichella had the most natural flair, but both seem to be very typically 'Italian' - their performances vary wildly with mood.

[Fares_k]

From the top of my head:

Italian Grand Prix 1999: I was extremely impressed with Ralf that day, he set the fastest lap of the race on a circuit which favored the likes of Mclaren Mercedes, Ferrari and even Jordan_ powered by Mugen Honda. Back then Ralf seemed pretty much as Rosberg these days, an incredibly talented driver in an underpowered car (Williams Supertec). The momentum kept going and he was set to score his first ever win at the chaotic European Grand Prix the same year but unfortunately a puncture sent him back to fourth place. Sir Frank Williams and Patrick Head were all full of Praise for the then- impressive young German.

Also, he showed maturity at the Australian Grand Prix 2000, bringing the car home in third place and scoring the first podium for BMW in their first race in Formula-1. However, IMO he started to show his other side when he initiated his ridiculous war of words against Montoya during winter testing in preparations for 2001. And as the season progressed it was clear that Montoya has got under the German's skin especially in the second half of the season when Montoya started to have the upper hand over him, i remember Ralf's comments during the press conference of the German Grand Prix at the Hockenheim circuit_the race which he won after he inherited the lead from Montoya who was able to open up a gap of 8 seconds on him_ he stated that Montoya was pushing too hard for his engine; a comment which was totally dismissed by Patrick Head. Actually they are comments like these which made the German look arrogant and not likable by the fans of the sport. Yet, his win at Canada was utterly astonishing by beating his legendary brother fair and square in a straight fight.

During Ralf's career I've come to the conclusion that on his day he is probably one of the fastest guys out there, he can be really good but on the other hand he can be incredibly bad on the track and incredibly single headed off the circuit as well. I don't know if I'm gonna miss him if he leaves the sport, after all he did not add anything special since his debut in Australia 97.

[Galko877]

Ralf has talent but his problem is he is a moody guy - on and off the track.

BTW, not long ago Ralf was asked in an interview which he thinks was his greatest race and he said Magny-Cours 1999.

[Tenmantaylor]

Did Ralfs Indy crash affect him physically or mentally more than he ever let on?

[gerry nassar]

Imola and Canada in 2001 were both strong wins. He was always good when the car was good. If it wasnt he'd fall back in relation to Montoya.

He was the 2nd best driver of 1999 IMO (and many people) after HHF.

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by Galko877
BTW, not long ago Ralf was asked in an interview which he thinks was his greatest race and he said Magny-Cours 1999.

Guess why

[former champ]

Originally posted by gerry nassar
Imola and Canada in 2001 were both strong wins. He was always good when the car was good. If it wasnt he'd fall back in relation to Montoya.

He was the 2nd best driver of 1999 IMO (and many people) after HHF.

In 1999 he was sensational IMO with the vastly underpowered Williams Supertec. I thought he'd really go on from there but I always felt he never really had the measure of Montoya after the early periods of 2001. On pure pace JPM had the advantage but Ralf did have some strong races as you mentioned.

Very good driver on his day but not the type of 'racer' I like to see. In addition, he was always going to struggle being compared with brother Michael.

[glorius&victorius]

i think that not so long time ago Ralf spoke quite positive of JPM, or it was opposite way... i dont remember who said what, but there was for sure an increased mutual respect. anyone heard, read this story?

I think that these did get the best out of themselves by competing against eachother.

[ex Rhodie racer]

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
i think that not so long time ago Ralf spoke quite positive of JPM, or it was opposite way... i dont remember who said what, but there was for sure an increased mutual respect. anyone heard, read this story?

I think that these did get the best out of themselves by competing against eachother.

There was definitely a serious rivalry between the two, which I feel Ralf wasn´t mentally strong enough to cope with. It probably effected his mental attitude more than anything else, which resulted in a loss of self belief, the most important ingredient in a racers make up.
No one could question his undoubted talent, a talent that, for whatever reason, failed to produce the results it promised. I think this year´s poor showing in the Toyota was more a result of a loss of motivation than ability. Given the right circumstances, it´s possible we could see a resurgent RS next year, assuming of course he gets the right offer and decides to stay..

[almart]

Anyone see the character assassination piece in F1 Racing couple of months back by Matt the pratt? Ends with Matt telling Ralf to **** off (i'm quoting) - easily the most vicious propaganda piece i've ever read ... but ralf has always been over-rated, and calling himself the third best driver in the world was a bit odd.

[ralphrj]

I'll remember his drive at the British GP in 1998.

For some reason neither Ralf or Panis were credited with a qualifying time and had to start from the back. I was in the crowd about level with them on the grid. The race was very wet but Ralf was able to pick off cars one by one and finished in 6th place to score Jordan's 1st point of the season. I couldn't have been the only one who noticed his drive that day as he got a good round of applause when he crossed the line.

[Dolph]

Originally posted by Fares_k
During Ralf's career I've come to the conclusion that on his day he is probably one of the fastest guys out there, he can be really good but on the other hand he can be incredibly bad on the track...

You have come to the conclusion or are you just taking words of a certain team manager and naming them as your thoughts?

[Dolph]

Originally posted by former champ
In 1999 he was sensational IMO with the vastly underpowered Williams Supertec.

He wasn't sensational... Zanardi sucked major *** in the Williams !! That made him look so good.

[robnyc]

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
i think that not so long time ago Ralf spoke quite positive of JPM, or it was opposite way... i dont remember who said what, but there was for sure an increased mutual respect. anyone heard, read this story?

I think that these did get the best out of themselves by competing against eachother.

I think that was when he learned Montoya was off to NASCAR He said Montoya was a great talent and great driver and it was sad to see him go. I don't think I've heard Juan praised Ralf the same way he has praised his older brother.

[robnyc]

If I have a winning car I think I still take Ralf over Fisi and Trulli to drive it.

[Dolph]

Ralf has made it quite clear he would be in F1 next year. I dont believe a multiple race winner like him would settle for a testing position so I think you are gonna have to wait a few more years to start remebering him ;)

[D82]

Originally posted by Dolph


He wasn't sensational... Zanardi sucked major *** in the Williams !! That made him look so good.

I think, BOTH Zanardi sucked and Ralf was so good in the 1999 Williams.

[Dolph]

Originally posted by D82

I think, BOTH Zanardi sucked and Ralf was so good in the 1999 Williams.

And then he mystically lost his skills late on?

[GNT4ME]

I feel that Ralf is essentially lazy.
His race craft and speed always seemed to miraculously reappear
whenever he needed to find a new team to race for or his contract was under review.
How much more could he have achieved had he applied himself all of the time and not just some of the time?

[Collective]

Originally posted by Dolph


And then he mystically lost his skills late on?

No he didn't, he went on to win races, score poles, and have a close fight with Montoya (also a great driver).

[Tigershark]

Originally posted by ralphrj
I'll remember his drive at the British GP in 1998.

Yes, that was quite impressive. Quite amazing to see it took them that long to score a single point, only to get their first win ever later that year (even though it was a crazy wet race).

I also think Ralf was quite strong in the early stages of the 2003 season, but then he kind of lost it towards the end of the season and Montoya became Williams' title contender. I'm actually surprised he only won six races, but then again, it was pretty tough in those years. His brother won 12 of the first 13 races in 2004...

[Collective]

Originally posted by Tigershark

Yes, that was quite impressive. Quite amazing to see it took them that long to score a single point, only to get their first win ever later that year (even though it was a crazy wet race).

I also think Ralf was quite strong in the early stages of the 2003 season, but then he kind of lost it towards the end of the season and Montoya became Williams' title contender. I'm actually surprised he only won six races, but then again, it was pretty tough in those years. His brother won 12 of the first 13 races in 2004...

The main difference was that when Ralf won his 2 straight races in mid-season, Montoya came in second. Then the next 2 races were for Montoya, and in both Ralf had problems (don't remember is mechanical or self-caused), but that left Ralf out of contention by Indianapolis, with Montoya on the high note. It was a shame because I think Ralf was doing just as good.

[UPRC]

I always felt really bad for Ralf. He gets so much flak just because of his attitude. When the car is right, he can easily beat almost anyone in F1 today.

I hope he is right in saying that he will be in F1 next year, and I certainly hope that it doesn't turn out to be another Toyota case where he signs for multiple years and accomplishes only mediocre results.

[Lada Lover]

Ralf had a really good race in Canada one year and he finished second, only to be DQed for brake ducts.

[qvn]

Once, Mika even stated that it was too bad for him that he had to face not one Schumacher but two after he was beaten by both Michael and Ralf in that race.

[Spunout]

Originally posted by Collective


The main difference was that when Ralf won his 2 straight races in mid-season, Montoya came in second. Then the next 2 races were for Montoya, and in both Ralf had problems (don't remember is mechanical or self-caused), but that left Ralf out of contention by Indianapolis, with Montoya on the high note. It was a shame because I think Ralf was doing just as good.

Yeah...I cannot remember all races from 2003, but checked out some stats to "refresh" my memory

The strong mid-season for Williams drivers went like this:

Monaco

- JPM won. Ralf looked good at first, but faded later (brake problems?) and finished 4th

Canada

- Close fight between Schumacher brothers. Michael wins, Ralf 2nd, JPM 3rd

Europe

- Ralf wins, JPM 2nd

France

- Ralf wins, JPM 2nd

So far so good. But from here things went wrong for Ralfie:

Great Britain

- RB wins, JPM 2nd, Ralf 9th. Cannot remember what happened!? Chaotic race...

Germany

- JPM wins. Ralf out on lap 1, after causing the crash that took out RB and KR

Hungary

- Alonso wins. JPM 3rd, Ralf 4th

Italy

- MS wins, JPM 2nd. Ralf out due to injury

[robnyc]

Originally posted by Collective


The main difference was that when Ralf won his 2 straight races in mid-season, Montoya came in second. Then the next 2 races were for Montoya, and in both Ralf had problems (don't remember is mechanical or self-caused), but that left Ralf out of contention by Indianapolis, with Montoya on the high note. It was a shame because I think Ralf was doing just as good.

Monaco 03 was a clear indication. Ralf took pole and was beaten by Kimi, Michael and Montoya who won the race.

[pingu666]

Great Britain

- RB wins, JPM 2nd, Ralf 9th. Cannot remember what happened!? Chaotic race...

that was a great race, and rubens was fantastic

i guess ud class ralf and the others as nearly men, on there day, fantastic and as good as can be. problem is, there day's become further and further apart

[Group B]

"you'd" "their" "days"

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by Spunout
Monaco

- JPM won. Ralf looked good at first, but faded later (brake problems?) and finished 4th

Ralf nearly lost it at the end of his first stint and had a rather bad outlap after that IIRC, looked like he was too hard on his tyres.

Originally posted by Spunout

Great Britain

- RB wins, JPM 2nd, Ralf 9th. Cannot remember what happened!? Chaotic race...

"The Colombian was quick to pass Ralf, who suddenly began to drop down the order, his engine overheating as a guide vane had been torn off and was blocking the airflow. The Williams driver was forced to come into the pits to rectify the problem, but even after that, his pace was not good enough to return to the top positions." http://atlasf1.autos...i/elizalde.html

Originally posted by Spunout


Hungary

- Alonso wins. JPM 3rd, Ralf 4th

Maybe that was his best race ever, dropped to 18th in the first lap and then passed something like 12 people on track - among them Michael with great opportunistic pass - on the Hungaroring!!

[Knot]

Ralph on his good days was quick, but always missed consistency.

Other days he'd pull a Villeneuve and show up and couldn't be arsed to do anything but knit doilies whilst racing.

The big Indy wreck took away all his piss and vinegar.

[JSF]

My abiding memory of Ralf is him being stitched up like a kipper by Michael to get barachello past him, that pretty much summed up his mental strength, or lack of it. He always apeared to back out of a fight, especially with Michael.

I think his shunts at Indy had a big affect on him, since then he has been clumsy, having lots of unforced errors. He was never the greatest racer, but he has been very much a journeyman for the last few years, doing nothing to justify his position in a race seat. I dont know how good his technical work is, but he isnt a racer and shouldnt be given a race seat when there are so many drivers out there who are worth giving a chance to, at least they will try.

[Dolph]

what is journeyman?

[Dolph]

Originally posted by robnyc


Monaco 03 was a clear indication. Ralf took pole and was beaten by Kimi, Michael and Montoya who won the race.

Ralf had unsuitable tyre pressures as I recall...

[Tenmantaylor]

Originally posted by Dolph
what is journeyman?

A journeyman is someone who has driven for a number of teams and whilst being good enough to compete has not yet not been good enough to make a season-long impact.

Out of the current crop of drivers Ralf and Rubens are stereotypical journeymen IMO. Jenson is starting to become one.

[Dolph]

Originally posted by Tenmantaylor


A journeyman is someone who has driven for a number of teams and whilst being good enough to compete has not yet not been good enough to make a season-long impact.

Out of the current crop of drivers Ralf and Rubens are stereotypical journeymen IMO. Jenson is starting to become one.

But both Jenson and Rubens have shown they can be competitive throughout a whole year

[MortenF1]

He's had several great race performances, or GP-weekends. Off the top of my head right now I'd single out Silverstone 2000 and Imola 2001.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by Dolph
Ralf had unsuitable tyre pressures as I recall...

His setup, his responsibility.

[Frans]

the best of Ralf?

well, the fact he's stopping must be the best moment ever........

[David M. Kane]

Who else could fire a Manager like Weber and get away with it? One of the all-time under-achievers in racing history. How he sleeps at night I'll never know, he got a lot of money for producing basically nothing.

[SlateGray]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
How he sleeps at night I'll never know,

With Cora

[FLB]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Who else could fire a Manager like Weber and get away with it? One of the all-time under-achievers in racing history. How he sleeps at night I'll never know, he got a lot of money for producing basically nothing.

In my best Rainier Wolfcastle voice:

'On top of a pile of money'

[Niro]

His facial expressions are unique. He's had some great races too. But when Michael left the field, he lost something.

[pac]

With crazy speculation of a move to McLaren, maybe all of this is premature!

Outside of the obvious GP wins for BMW Williams, there was RS being almost three quarters a second faster than Mansell at Jordon test in Barcelona prior to 1997 season. 1998 Spa, carnage in the wet (2nd). Ralph, you cannot overtake Damon! OK there is a team order! You cannot overtake Damon. You heard me before didn't you Ralph about overtaking Damon? You heard that didn't you? Get that Ralph? Did you hear me? Ralph, acknowledge!

France 1999 (4th from P16). Silverstone 1999 when his brother broke his leg (3rd). Surviving 190mph 2004 crash @ Indy and recovering from spinal injuries.
Again surviving hit at turn 13 with 2005 crash. Kicking the TF105.

Ralph Schumacher 1997-2007 YouTube tribute.

[Andrew Ford &F1]

In an interview to F1Racing at the beginnig of the 2004 season Montoya said that Ralf can be blindingly quick but lacks consitency. That's probably the best way to sum up Ralf's career. He could have achieved a lot, but...

His best race? Some already have been mentioned here, but I suggest that the 1999 European GP at Nurburgring should be on the list too. Ralf racing against DC still is one of my favourite memories from that season.