38 replies to this topic

[Stirling]

Does anyone know the current whereabouts of the Jaguar XJ12C used in the 1976 TV series 'The New Avengers' where it was driven by the character of John Steed as played by Patrick MacNee? According to a 'New Avengers' fansite, the car was last heard of in private ownership in the Midlands but its present whereabouts is unknown.

Here's the car as it appeared on TV in 1976:







The TV car was, of course, a road-going replica of the Jaguar XJ12C racers developed by Broadspeed for BL between 1976-1978:



With insufficient investment from BL and reliability problems the cars, though stunning looking on the track and returning some results which suggested great potential, performed disappointingly overall, and it took TWR and Bob Tullius' XJ-S racers to restore the prestige of the Jaguar name on the racetrack.

ciao,
Stirling

[Gregor Marshall]

According to the DVLA website:-

Date of Liability 01 09 1987
Date of First Registration 03 05 1976
Year of Manufacture 1976
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 5343CC
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type Petrol
Export Marker Not Applicable
Vehicle Status Unlicensed
Vehicle Colour GREEN
Vehicle Type Approval null
The information contained on this page is correct at the time of enquiry.
Vehicle Excise Duty Rate for vehicle
6 Months Rate £99.00
12 Months Rate £180.00

I have a feeling it was on ebay last year but I might be wrong, either way it looks like it has been off the road for the last twenty years.

[Glengavel]

CAR magazine did an article some years ago about the TWR ETC XJSs (sorry, I've got TLA syndrome). In a sidebar article they reckoned that if BL had stuck with the XJC programme for another year they might have started to see some return for their money.

The Avengers Jaguar was reckoned to be great in a straight line, but turning the steering wheel was apparently a real challenge!

[Stirling]

That's interesting, Gregor - if it has been laid up all that time I wonder in what conditions......And the fact that it's been off the road twenty years may tie in with Glengavel's point about the difficulty of steering it. I remember reading an article about the car when The New Avengers came out, which stated that the wheels they'd used to fill the flared racing wheel arches on what was just a basic road car with the Broadspeed bodykit fitted had made the steering incredibly twitchy for doing anything much other than driving sedately in a straight line - so it may not have been possible to get the car MOT'd which may explain its disappearance.

And Glengavel - yes, I've heard it said that BL pulled the financial plug on the Broadspeed XJ12C racers just at the point when the team had finally tweaked them to the point of proving themselves. Those Big Cats were awesome looking beasts, and when they were firing on all cylinders they certainly gave the BMW competition a run for their money - and the latter had been race developed for far longer and with greater investment than the XJ's.

ciao,
Stirling

[simonlewisbooks]

And of course they sounded glorious! Sadly a classic case of a timid BL effort in the cash strapped 70s which if persevered with could have gone some way to re-inventing the corporation. Audi, Peugeot and many others have done this with great success off the back of a concerted motor sport effort.

[Gregor Marshall]

Well it looks like someoen was brave for 12 years of driving!!
Have you tried posting on pistonheads or 10/10ths, maybe someone there will know.
It is a shame that they didn't continue this project but then I wonder if the XJS and Rover projects would have got off the ground.

[2F-001]

I understood that one of the main problems with the XJCs was having to run with a wet-sump; I don't remember if the regulations stipulated the use of the original production lubrication was required for Group 2, or if this was an homologation shortcoming, or if all of this is wrong! I felt sure the previous CSLs and works Capris had dry sumps. Or did the regulations for the ETC change at some point? Was it still the old Group 2 by the time the TWR XJSs came along?
Can anyone unravel that lot for me?!


(Yes, those XJCs were certainly spectacular thundering through Woodcote!)

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by 2F-001
I understood that one of the main problems with the XJCs was having to run with a wet-sump; I don't remember if the regulations stipulated the use of the original production lubrication was required for Group 2, or if this was an homologation shortcoming, or if all of this is wrong! I felt sure the previous CSLs and works Capris had dry sumps. Or did the regulations for the ETC change at some point? Was it still the old Group 2 by the time the TWR XJSs came along?
Can anyone unravel that lot for me?!


(Yes, those XJCs were certainly spectacular thundering through Woodcote!)

I think the team initially struggled to get the engine to last on a wet sump,which was all that was homologated so they lobbied the FIA for a change of regs to allow unhomologated dry sumps, got it, just as they had mastered the wet sump system ...then the new dry sump wouldn't work properly... something like that anyway!

[2F-001]

Ah - I just knew it couldn't be something simple!
Thanks Simon.

[Peter Darley]

The Avengers XJC was delivered to the film company on wet weather tyres, which explains its twitchy steering, which I can confirm, having driven it on several occasions.

The reason was that wets had a tread pattern, and therefore legal for filming on public roads, which the company wanted. Obviously slicks had no tread. Conventional road tyres were too skinny to fit on racing rims and would have looked out of proportion anyway under flared arches.

Peter Darley

Special Projects Manager, Broadspeed, 1976 - 78.

[f1steveuk]

A shot in the dark, but...

Museum of Stars and Cars, Blackpool I think?

[Gregor Marshall]

Originally posted by f1steveuk
A shot in the dark, but...

Museum of Stars and Cars, Blackpool I think?

Good shout. Just checked the list on their website and the have The Avenger's Elan but no Jaguar :

[Glengavel]

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks


I think the team initially struggled to get the engine to last on a wet sump,which was all that was homologated so they lobbied the FIA for a change of regs to allow unhomologated dry sumps, got it, just as they had mastered the wet sump system ...then the new dry sump wouldn't work properly... something like that anyway!

According to the article I read, BMW/Alpina helped Jaguar sort out the baffles in the wet sump, as they wanted a decent bit of competition to race against!

[Stirling]

Peter that's fascinating - someone who was actually connected with the car in its heyday! I'd be very grateful if you'd be kind enough to tell us more about the car - and have you any pics of it you could post?

Did the TV production company hand a standard XJC over to Broadspeed to carry out all work? Was it a standard unmodified 5.3 engine fitted? And clearly too, there had to be modifications to fit those racing rims - but was the suspension of the car altered?

It also seems to be finished in an unusual shade of green - not quite so dark as BRG - any idea what it was?

And finally, have you any idea where the car is now (and do you happen to know how many of the Broadspeed racers survive today?)

ciao,
Stirling

[Glengavel]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 2F-001
[B]I understood that one of the main problems with the XJCs was having to run with a wet-sump; I don't remember if the regulations stipulated the use of the original production lubrication was required for Group 2, or if this was an homologation shortcoming, or if all of this is wrong! I felt sure the previous CSLs and works Capris had dry sumps. Or did the regulations for the ETC change at some point? Was it still the old Group 2 by the time the TWR XJSs came along?
Can anyone unravel that lot for me?!


XJSs were Group A, I think.

[RS2000]

Group 2 changed very significantly in 1977, requiring a much more restricted specification than previously. Dry sumping was no longer permitted. Standard suspension configuration and standard gearbox casing were other reversions. If wet sump was susequently rescinded before the demise of that Appendix J in 1981, it was as much to do with other saloon racing teams. The works-supported Escorts in the ETCC (run by Zakspeed then?) went bang with monotonous regularity IIRC.
These Gp2 changes would also have effectively done for the works Escorts in rallying. That only changed when the "old" Gp2 spec RS1800 was re-homologated in Gp 4 as the mythical "Escort RS" with all the earlier Gp2 mods. Unlike other dodgy homologations of the period, no actual production car was ever built or announced.
I am not convinced the XJC would ever have made it in Gp2. Weight and its impact on reliability looked a bit of a limitation.
The XJS (another Walkinshaw "saloon car" in the tradition of the Mazda RX7....) of course ran in the new Appendix J GpA. (initially, the only differences between Appendix J GpA & GpB was the minimum production quantity and dry sumping only being permitted in GpB. Not that any of that lasted long once the manufacturers lobbied for "Evolution" regs to be introduced...

[Peter Darley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stirling
[B]Peter that's fascinating - someone who was actually connected with the car in its heyday! I'd be very grateful if you'd be kind enough to tell us more about the car - and have you any pics of it you could post?

[B]

Did the TV production company hand a standard XJC over to Broadspeed to carry out all work? Was it a standard unmodified 5.3 engine fitted? And clearly too, there had to be modifications to fit those racing rims - but was the suspension of the car altered?

TV company did a deal with Jaguar, and a standard XJC arrived at the works for us to carry out all work. Standard engine was retained for reliability. Suspension was lowered and tweaked to accept race rims.

It also seems to be finished in an unusual shade of green - not quite so dark as BRG - any idea what it was?

The green had a metallic flake to it, believe it was a RR colour.

And finally, have you any idea where the car is now (and do you happen to know how many of the Broadspeed racers survive today?)

No idea where car is now. The last racer I saw was run by JD Classics at FoS a few years ago.

[mfd]

Originally posted by f1steveuk
Museum of Stars and Cars, Blackpool I think?

It's in Keswick Steve, the cars rotate because there isn't space for all of them, so makes it worthwhile visiting again & again. (OT) Beats the Cumberland Pencil Museum hands down! Although close run by the Cumberland Toy & Model Museum in Cockermouth.

[Stirling]

Peter - thanks for taking the time to answer these questions - I'd love to see that car in the metal!

mfd - the website for Cars of the Stars Keswick only lists one Avengers car - Mrs. Peel's Lotus - but no mention of the XJ.....

Here's a clip of the XJ12C in action in the New Avengers - I've searched in vain for a clip of the Broadspeed racers:

http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=MowxeqPG0zQ

ciao,
Stirling

[f1steveuk]

Originally posted by mfd

It's in Keswick Steve, the cars rotate because there isn't space for all of them, so makes it worthwhile visiting again & again. (OT) Beats the Cumberland Pencil Museum hands down! Although close run by the Cumberland Toy & Model Museum in Cockermouth.

I'm surprised I remembered the name, let alone where it is!!

[oldclassiccar]

15-20 years ago dad and I spotted a mid green XJC, flared arches, parked in a compound behind Stratstones in Stockport (Jaguar dealership in those days). From memory it had a bowler hat on the rear parcel shelf too. Only the rear of it could be seen, and I couldn't get up close due to the wire mesh fencing we had to peer through being in the way. I often wondered if it was the real thing, or a lookalike, wish I'd taken a photo now but I think it had gone when next I drove by.

Rick

[alansart]

Graham Hughes who used to race saloons in the 70's & early 80's, mainly in the north, had what he called "Steeds Jaguar" parked in his driveway at his home in Liverpool. This must have been at least 15 years ago. I'm not sure if was the original or a replica, but it certainly looked the part.

[terry mcgrath]

The car does survive
I have a chassis no for it

terry mcgrath

[flat-16]

Are there photos of the race-prepared dry-sump engine? Has there ever been a book documenting Broadspeed's conversions?

Thanks,
Justin

[mitch1973]

as far as i know the car still exists
the car was bought by someone who left it somewhere for about a year and than it was picked up
and never seen again
only by a handfull of people

i spoke to one of these people and he could tell me that the car was not for sale
also that the car was in bad shape
well it's a coupe so who would expect anything difrent

i know first hand what a coupe looks like when left to spend it's last days outside

it's ashame that this car is not been taken care off in a way it's a bit of britains heritage
because who has not seen the avengers ????????????
and i think the car should be restored to it's former glory
so that everyone can see it

[mitch1973]

Are there photos of the race-prepared dry-sump engine? Has there ever been a book documenting Broadspeed's conversions?

Thanks,
Justin

of the dry sump engine i do not have pictures
but they where only testing that in 1 of the cars in 1977
the other engine i do have pictures of
and i am trying to recreate it for myself to put it in my own broadspeed replica

there has not been a book specific about these conversions
the cars had a lot done to them and it took me a whole day to take pictures of the original and to draw everything up
so that i would have everything to make a true to the original replica


there are a few books that have sections in it telling the story of the broadspeed cars but not one book about these cars

[mitch1973]

And finally, have you any idea where the car is now (and do you happen to know how many of the Broadspeed racers survive today?)

No idea where car is now. The last racer I saw was run by JD Classics at FoS a few years ago.
[/quote]


like before ..... the avengers car is still around but in bad shape and not a lot of people know where it is

the race cars 1976 and 1977 i know where they are

beljc001 has been sold last year , it had to be restored and will probably be racing this year in classic events
beljc003 is owned by the jaguar daimler heritage trust and is shown every once in a while here and there on shows and races ( but not raced)
beljc004 is privatly owned and is in australia

and beljc002 is the car everyone may have seen at goodwood
it was sold a few monthes back
but it's a bit of a mix and match car
it was bought by mr. bob kerr as a bare shell
and build up with parts he bought here and there after broadspeed closed their doors and sold everything
so in a way it may be a real racecar but in a way also not because it s build up with spares
this was also the car jd classics sold a few years ago

you can keep them apart by looking at the color of the front spoiler

002 is blue
003 is black
004 is red

and 001 i dont know right now because it's still being restored

[Derwent Motorsport]

There were one or perhaps two of the race cars in Scotland in the nineties. One may well have been the Bob Kerr car. There was also another Scot who had a fine collections of Jaguars who raced and speed evented his cars. The last one I saw was when a guy from Aberdeen ran one in a Knockhill Sprint. he had great difficulty in getting it off the line! I forget his name but he spent pots of money on motorsport for a while and on his son's career (I think he did the British GT Championship in the early 2000s) but like many big spenders just disappeared.

[mitch1973]

There were one or perhaps two of the race cars in Scotland in the nineties. One may well have been the Bob Kerr car. There was also another Scot who had a fine collections of Jaguars who raced and speed evented his cars. The last one I saw was when a guy from Aberdeen ran one in a Knockhill Sprint. he had great difficulty in getting it off the line! I forget his name but he spent pots of money on motorsport for a while and on his son's career (I think he did the British GT Championship in the early 2000s) but like many big spenders just disappeared.

the car you saw was probably the bob kerr car beljc002 he was chairman for the jaguar daimler club in scotland if i am correct
and restored a few cars
one was beljc002 he build up from a bare shell with parts he found all over the country
he did some hillclimbs with it
but the car was not fully tuned to race spec
because he wanted to keep it in one piece

i read in an article that when he finished the car he had some ex broadspeed people set up the car and specialy the engine to get it running right
with the mechanical fuel injection
they say it's a pain in the ......... to get running propper

[Pullman99]

[
[B]

TV company did a deal with Jaguar, and a standard XJC arrived at the works for us to carry out all work. Standard engine was retained for reliability. Suspension was lowered and tweaked to accept race rims.

It also seems to be finished in an unusual shade of green - not quite so dark as BRG - any idea what it was?

The green had a metallic flake to it, believe it was a RR colour.

No idea where car is now. The last racer I saw was run by JD Classics at FoS a few years ago.

I found this thread by chance. As someone who delights in unearthing (literally sometimes) hiostoric vehicles, I was interested in the whereabouts of the Jaguar. In the days when BL was at its most integrated (!) the marketing department trundled a variety of mtorsport and show vehicle to events in the UK and elsewhere. I rember seeing the Steed XJ12C at Silverstone (GP I think) on display behind the main grandstands opposite the pits. It arrrived in a furniture van! BL also supplied a Range-Rover for Steed and it was painted the same colour. It was "J" registered which would make it quite an early car (FRW925J I think but I could be wrong). It had been a PR "hack" prior to that (and was an ochre colour) so it would seem to have had a quick respray rather than BL supply a new vehicle. They even let me drive this one as I remember using to tow historic cars with.

BL seemed to fail to exploit any or all of its film and TV involvement. Ford did much better. I put some mileage on a couple of Triumph Spitfire 1500s in 1974 for a remake of the Michael Caine film "Alfie". The remake ("Alfie Darling") starred Alan Price but both the Spitfires (they needed two fro continuity and filming schedules) and the film seemed to have remained forgotten. One of the lesser pieces of British cinema.

I had forgotten the involvement of Broadspeed in its build. It would be nice to find it and I guess Keswick (or Coventry) would be appropriate "homes" should it resurface.

If I've already posted this. Sorry, but my original submission disappeared (like the XJ12C).

Edited by Pullman99, 29 May 2020 - 14:50.

[tonyb]

If I've already posted this. Sorry, but my original submission disappeared (like the XJ12C).

Interesting as I'm pretty sure I replied on the 6th July with some photos of two of the cars
at Goodwood a few years back and some comments on post #27 but all since then seems
to have disappeared? Can't remember all I said but....

If anyone has a JDC mag for January 1982 there is a small For Sale ad for the Steed car
in there. Also this from the JDC:

Apparently, in 1985, Steed's Jaguar was offered to the former ‘Avengers fan club' by a dealer
in West Bromwich ( West Midlands, UK ). The trader also put the car on display at the N.E.C
in May 1986, and it was duly bought by a person who however did not collect it. The car still
remained with the then former owner, who had sold his business and needed to clear his premises.
He contacted a transport company that took the car temporarily away and, having no place to move
it to, kept it for four years.

Finally the car was paid for and taken away to presumably Stockport. That was in 1991. Since
then the whereabouts and condition of the car are unknown.


The Steed chassis was pre-production No: 2G1008BW from August 1973 and here are the
pics again:


002


The JDHT's 003 with Win Percy piloting

[Odseybod]

There's a good article on the Kerr car by Mark Gillies in "Supercar Classics" (if I was at work today, I could tell you which issue ...).

About the wet sump/dry sump on the racers. ISTR it was all part of the 'fix one thing and something else needs doing' syndrome. In this case, their early races were plagued by the brakes not really being up to the job of slowing the bulk. Once they fixed that, all the oil shot to the front of the sump under braking, causing bearing problems (hence the sump baffles - with or without Munich help). But a dry sump was clearly the way to go, if they could have made it work.

As had been said, a wonderful sight and sound in their heyday. But there was that heart-stopping moment in the early laps of the TT when one half-spun in front of t'other at Copse.

[Odseybod]

p.s. Couldn't resist adding a couple of TT pics - sorry there's no sound!

[tonyb]

There is also this period video of Steed's car at Silverstone - you may like to watch it for various reasons...
Select the image to watch the video and also wind up the volume:

[Mallory Dan]

[quote name='tonyb' date='Jul 17 2009, 10:24' post='3749601']
There is also this period video of Steed's car at Silverstone - you may like to watch it for various reasons...
Select the image to watch the video and also wind up the volume:


[/quot

Is that Val Musetti's March '752' alongside??

[RTH]

Yes it is .

[Pullman99]

Apparently, in 1985, Steed's Jaguar was offered to the former ‘Avengers fan club' by a dealer
in West Bromwich ( West Midlands, UK ). The trader also put the car on display at the N.E.C
in May 1986, and it was duly bought by a person who however did not collect it.

Great pics. If the NEC event was the Classic Car Show, then I think I do remember the car there as I was helping organise one of the stands.

Let's hope this thread will have some impact on helping to return an interesting car to the public eye.
 

Edited by Pullman99, 29 May 2020 - 14:56.

[arttidesco]

There is also this period video of Steed's car at Silverstone - you may like to watch it for various reasons...
Select the image to watch the video and also wind up the volume:

Fab footage thanks for sharing :-)

Having just read the whole thread it's interesting to note that after coming the 'wrong' way down the pits someone managed to turn the car 180 degrees onto the track at the end of the pit lane despite the heavy steering.

Were the wheels specially made for the show they look like single nut wheels to an XJS pattern as opposed to the gold centre BBS wheels used on the track cars ?

[arttidesco]

Are there photos of the race-prepared dry-sump engine? Has there ever been a book documenting Broadspeed's conversions?

Thanks,
Justin

Not seen a Jag V12 on the bench before so I have no idea if this is a dry or wet sump V12, I suspect it's the latter, either way it looks incredibly tall :-)