297 replies to this topic

[GILMORE]

Ah, yes, the bell rrrrrings!

Ahhhhh, good to know I am not losing it.;)

Send me an email. I seem to have lost your email address.

Edited by GILMORE, 30 July 2013 - 19:08.

[GILMORE]

Of all the photos I have, I only have two photos from any of the tracks I listed before (Jeffries/Burbank, Silvergate, Neil's, Culver City, Inter City, Tri-City). They are of Al Reinke winning a dash event at Inter City, I believe.... or could be Culver (?). Anyways, anybody have interest in seeing them?

[Jim Thurman]

Of all the photos I have, I only have two photos from any of the tracks I listed before (Jeffries/Burbank, Silvergate, Neil's, Culver City, Inter City, Tri-City). They are of Al Reinke winning a dash event at Inter City, I believe.... or could be Culver (?). Anyways, anybody have interest in seeing them?

Yes! Absolutely!

I've only seen a few photos from Silvergate, though a few more appeared in the San Diego paper (and from Neil's as well). I've only seen two of Jefferies and 1 or 2 from Culver City. I don't know that I've seen a photo from Colton.

[GILMORE]

... or could be Culver (?)

I don't know why I wrote/typed Culver.... I meant Tri-City.

Anyways, judging by the people and the location of the cars in the background, they look to have been taken after the dash event.



Written on the back of the photo below is... AL REINKE GETTING HIS KISS - DEC 18, 1932 - COLTON, CAL - LADY GOT HOT ON EXHAUST



Not sure what track name it would be for "DEC 18, 1932"... Inter City or Tri-City?

If anyone wants larger images, let me know.

Jim, I sent you a message.

Edited by GILMORE, 01 August 2013 - 03:06.

[GILMORE]

I've only seen a few photos from Silvergate, though a few more appeared in the San Diego paper (and from Neil's as well). I've only seen two of Jefferies and 1 or 2 from Culver City. I don't know that I've seen a photo from Colton.

I've seen images /photos of the San Diego tracks and Culver, that have appeared in newspapers, books, mags and on the 'net, but owning any photos from these tracks has eluded me.

[Jim Thurman]

At least from what I can tell, looks more like Colton and you're right about it appearing to be after a dash. Thanks for posting/sending the photos GILMORE. Outstanding. It might have been called San Bernardino Speedway in 1932. I need to make another trip to the Colton library. I ran across an early Colton date where one Marie Prevost was to present the winners trophy that evening at San Bernardino's State Theater. Unsurprisingly, she did not appear.

Fans of Nick Lowe might recall Marie

... or could be Culver (?)

I don't know why I wrote/typed Culver.... I meant Tri-City.

Anyways, judging by the people and the location of the cars in the background, they look to have been taken after the dash event.



Written on the back of the photo below is... AL REINKE GETTING HIS KISS - DEC 18, 1932 - COLTON, CAL - LADY GOT HOT ON EXHAUST

Not sure what track name it would be for "DEC 18, 1932"... Inter City or Tri-City?

If anyone wants larger images, let me know.

Jim, I sent you a message.

[Jim Thurman]

It's not much, but in doing something else, I stumbled across a few items (source: Van Nuys News, Van Nuys, California)

Michael. when you get a chance, would LOVE to compare notes with you on the Jeffries/Burbank Speedway. Here are the results I have...

1932-07-31, 25 LAPS, CLARENCE PETERSON, 16'06.99" <--- "One man cars", CARA sanction

From what info I have, the remaining '32 race dates (12/18 and 12/26) were stock car/roadster races.

1933-04-23, 25 LAPS, GEORGE ROBSON, 17'56

1933-05-21, 25 LAPS, RAIN

6/18 is the last race I have for Burbank. I know I am missing several from the '33 season as Pasco won 4 races and Pixley is said to have won multiple races.

Pasco was already being referred to as a 4-time winner in March.

[sramoa]

I found some other pre-war big car championships

 

KIRA(kentucky-Indiana Racing Association) Big cars

 

1940

 

06/02-Greenfield,IN-20L/D-Ray Telles

06/30-Evansville,IN-/D-Slim Rutherford

07/04-Greenfield,IN-20L/D-Slim Rutherford

07/14-Salem,IN-

07/21-Lebanon,KY

07/28-Danville,IL

 

That's all my info

 

Mile High Racing Association

 

some events in 1940 in Kansas,but I don't have any info(more tracks and others)

 

and 

 

National Auto Racing Association(at Wasco,Freeport,Paris and others)

 

Anybody has got more infos?

Edited by sramoa, 22 November 2013 - 17:33.

[Michael Ferner]

Slim Rutherford was KIRA champion in 1940, and other races may have been at Greenfield/IN on Apr 28 and Hodgenville/KY on Oct 20 (Woody Campbell won). MHRA was surely a Colorado-based club, but there appear to have been events in Oklahoma and Kansas, too. NARA was a name often used, and by different clubs. In 1938, there was an Illinois-based group racing under that name at Freeport, Monee, and likely some other area tracks, maybe even Hammond Speedway in Indiana. A guy named Emil Becker appears to have won a few of those events.

[sramoa]

Were these "championships" about one-off?I mean they were just a year?

[Michael Ferner]

Not sure. I've seen Chick Smith listed as 1939 KIRA champion, but that may have been a confusion with the MDTRA title he won that year. Or, maybe he won both? As for MHRA, there was a post-WW2 Midget championship listed under that name, maybe the same club, maybe just a name coincidence. Many of those clubs folded within a year or two.

[sramoa]

I'm still not quite clear to me about Southeastern area.I am thinking of Georgia,North Carolina and other places.I know there was  some kind of championship(s) over the mid-30s...Frank Beeder(?) and Bob Sall were champions(If I know....)

[Michael Ferner]

There was a Southeastern AAA Championship in 1936 only, with Bob Sall the champion. Frankie Beeder was runner-up, but if I recall correctly, he was erroneously announced as the champion by parts of the press, which was typically not corrected. There were only about a dozen races, and Sall scored 210 points, with Beeder at 208 very close behind. Roy "Monk" Tadlock was third, at 138. I have very little info, but it seems the last four races were staged in simultaneous pairs, i.e. two races on October 10 and 17, each, with Sall and Beeder each winning twice, so that Frankie lost the title in spite of totally dominating his last two appearances: fast time, heat and feature wins! Must've been a galling experience!

Before and after 1936, the Southeastern races were part of the Eastern circuit, but it seems there was some sort of unofficial Southern championship created by counting the points won in the Southeastern events only. That's why you sometimes find mention of Chet Gardner as Southern champion (1934), and Ken Fowler, too, if I recall correctly. Also, Bob Sall appears to have won a couple of unofficial championships in addition to his official one.

[sramoa]

I found an article about Southern champions(or Dixie Speedways champions-same thing?)from 1936:

 

1936 Bob Sall

1937 Ev Saylor

1938-39 Harley Taylor

1940 Al Crisler

1941 Jimmy Gibbons

[sramoa]

I found an article about Southern champions(or Dixie Speedways champions-same thing?)from 1936:

 

1936 Bob Sall

1937 Ev Saylor

1938-39 Harley Taylor

1940 Al Crisler

1941 Jimmy Gibbons

 or maybe in 1939 Buddy Rusch 

[Michael Ferner]

Well, there's the trouble with terminology! Reminds me of the conundrum of the supposed 1928 AAA Pacific Coast championship of Jack Buxton!

To reiterate, Bob Sall in 1936 is the only AAA Southern Champion, or more precisely: Southeastern Champion.

Ev Saylor won a couple of championships in the South during the winter of 1937/'38; one was the Savannah Speedway Assoc. (SSA) title, held at the Savannah/GA Fairgrounds, and the other I've seen in connection with the letters "SAST", but I don't know what that stood for - maybe Speedway Assoc. of Southern Tracks, or somesuch... He did race at Spartanburg/SC, Camp Foster in Jacksonville and Plant Field in Tampa during that winter, besides Savannah. And, by the way, he drove Tony Willman's "Old Rusty" in those races, the old Bagley/Cragar that had carried Doc MacKenzie to the 1935 Eastern and Hankinson crowns, and to his death the following year.

Buddie Rusch appears to have won some title during the following winter, but I'm really not clear what that was. It was the winter of the AAA/CSRA affiliation, as you may recall, and both clubs sanctioned a number of races in Georgia and Florida during late 1938 and early '39. Tony Willman was winning a lot of those races, and was probably runner-up. By the way, Harry Sheeler had been runner-up to Saylor in '37/'38, driving the ex-works Dreyer that Saylor had used to win the 1937 CSRA championship, while Rusch apparently drove another ex-Saylor Dreyer the following year - both cars continued for several more years in frontline competition.

Harley Taylor may have won another of those "unofficial" titles in 1938, as he won two AAA main events at Lakewood that fall. Al Crisler is a bit more difficult to explain, as the only result I have for him in 1940 is a third place in a heat at Richmond/VA! And Jimmy Gibbons in 1941 is even more mysterious, as the only results I have for him that year are from Williams Grove, and he never placed in several AAA and CSRA events in the South - hmm.

[sramoa]

Thanky our very much Michael!As I quickly find the newspaper article-I will send to you.

[supermod47]

I am just getting caught up on this thread, but I have to say, you guys are amazing!  So, here is another one for all to ponder.  I am looking for winners from the Mid-west Dirt Track Racing Association 1937-1949, A.K.A the Kerocene Circuit.  Here is what I have (with some KIRA races thrown in).  Some of these may not have been MDTRA and I'm sure there are many races missing:

1937

6-4       Frankfort IN                 Mike Salay

8-1       Huntington IN               Mike Salay

8-15     Columbus IN                Mike Salay

9-12     Hammond IN               Pete Alberts

9-26     Hammond IN               Pete Alberts

10-24   Hammond IN               Joie Chitwood

 

1938

6-12     Columbus IN                Jimmie Wilburn(Indiana Racing Association?)

8-14     South Bend IN             Ted Wright

9-25     Hammond IN               Ted Tetterton

 

1939

4-30     Franklin IN                   Mike Salay

5-7       Logansport IN             Mike Salay

5-14     Hammond IN               Mike Salay

5-28     Columbus IN                Mike Salay

5-?       Franklin IN                   Mike Salay

6-4       Logansport IN             Chick Smith

6-4       Hammond IN               Steve Truchan

6-11     Franklin IN                   Mike Salay

6-18     Jackson MI                  Glen Myers

6-25     Hammond IN               Steve Truchan

6-25     Columbus IN                Chick Smith

7-2       Logansport IN             Mike Salay

7-4       South Bend IN           Jimmie Wilburn

7-10     Hammond IN               Slim Rutherford

7-16     Franklin IN                   Chick Smith

7-23     Hammond IN               Bayliss Levrett

8-13     Hammond IN               Everett Rice

8-13     Franklin IN                   Chick Smith

 

1940

4-21     Franklin IN                   Slim Rutherford

4-28     Greenfield IN               Slim Rutherford(Kentucky-Indiana Racing Association)

5-19     Franklin IN                   Harold Shaw

6-2       Columbus IN                Bob Simpson

6-2       Greenfield IN               Ray Telles(KIRA)

6-9       Fairbury IL                   Mike Salay

6-9       Evansville IN                Slim Rutherford(KIRA)

6-16     Franklin IN                   Harold Shaw

6-30     Columbus IN                Charlie Szekendy

6-30     Evansville IN                Slim Rutherford(KIRA)

7-4       Greenfield IN               Slim Rutherford(KIRA)

7-23     Muncie IN                    Everett Rice

7-28     Columbus IN                Charlie Szekendy

8-2       Muncie IN                    Everett Rice

8-11     South Bend IN           Mike Salay

9-29     Muncie IN                    Mike Salay

10-6     Franklin IN                   Mike Salay

10-28   Hodgenville KY            Woody Campbell(KIRA)

?-?       Muncie IN                    Everett Rice

?-?       Muncie IN                    Everett Rice

 

1941

4-27     Greenfield IN               Slim Rutherford

5-4       Franklin IN                   Harold Shaw

5-11     Columbus IN               

5-25     Salem IN                      Harold Shaw

6-1       South Bend IN             Mike Salay

6-22     Salem IN                      Slim Rutherford

7-27     Greenfield IN               Jimmie Wilburn

7-29     Salem IN                      Slim Rutherford

9-1       South Bend IN             Bob Simpson

9-5       Alexandria IN               Bus Wilbert

9-7       Salem IN                      Harold Shaw

9-14     Alexandria IN               Bus Wilbert

10-12   Franklin IN                   Eddie Zalucki

10-26   Franklin IN                   Mike Salay

 

1942

4-26     Franklin IN

7-19     South Bend IN             Frank Luptow

7-26     Jungle Park IN             Bus Wilbert

 

1945

9-23     Jungle Park IN             Chick Smith

10-7     Jungle Park IN             Charlie Van Acker

 

1946

5-05     Jungle Park IN             Harry Hart

6-9       Jungle Park IN             Mike Salay

6-16     Sandusky OH               Mike Salay

6-23     Jungle Park IN             Jimmie Wilburn

7-4       South Bend IN             Mike Salay

8-11     Jungle Park IN             George Fabian

9-29     Jungle Park IN             Cliff Griffith

10-13   Jungle Park IN             Cliff Griffith

10-20   Mitchell IN                   Ralph Tedmire

?-?       Franklin IN                   Speedy Malone(Bus Wilbert)

 

1947

4-?       Franklin IN                   Chick Smith

4-27     Jungle Park IN             Jimmie Wilburn

5-18     Jungle Park IN             Cliff Griffith

6-8       Jungle Park IN             Mike Salay

7-6       Jungle Park IN             Bill Hooper

7-27     Logansport IN              Leon Hubble

8-3       Jungle Park IN             Leon Hubble

9-28     Jungle Park IN             Leon Hubble

 

1948

5-30     Jungle Park IN             Wayne Padgett

6-27     Jungle Park IN             Cliff Griffith

8-8       Jungle Park IN             Cliff Griffith

8-15     Mitchell IN                   Wally Stokes

9-6       South Bend IN            Red Bales

9-12     Bloomington IN            Wally Stokes

9-20     Franklin IN                   Wally Stokes

9-28     Franklin IN

10-3     Jungle Park IN             Leon Hubble

10-3     Jungle Park IN             Cliff Griffith

10-24   Bloomington IN            PeeWee Northern

?-?       Scottsburg IN               Wally Stokes                           

?-?       Fairfield IL                   Wally Stokes                           

?-?       Franklin IN                   Wally Stokes   

 

1949

4-5       Bloomington IN            Jimmy Daywalt

4-11     Bloomington IN            PeeWee Northern

4-29     Mitchell IN

 

 

MDTRA Champions:

 

1937:

1938:

1939:   Chick Smith

1940:   Harold Shaw

1941:

1942:

1946:  Cliff Griffith

1947:   Cliff Griffith

1948:

 

It seems the MDTRA died a quick death with the passing of Dan Sheek at the Mitchell race on April 29, 1949.  It appears all the remaining races were immediately absorbed into the CSRA and no MDTRA champion was declared for 1949.

 

Comments?

 

Thanks,

Bob Mays

[sramoa]

Bob!

 

This is a great info!Thanks!

 

I found more track from Terry Reed's article:The Kerosene Circuits:

 

Miamisburg,OH 1938-9-4

Cumberland County Fairgrounds in Greenup,IL 37?,1938-8-10,1941-6-11,from 1946???

Edgar County Fairgrounds-Paris,IL-no info

Hutton's Park,Scottsburg near Louisville 30s years,1946-48?

Montpelier Fairgrounds,IN 1938-41,From 1946?

Carey's Ranch,Indianapolis,IN 1939-8-20 until 1941

Muncie 1939,1941,1946????

[Michael Ferner]

Hello Bob, and welcome to TNF (The Nostalgia Forum) - it's good to have another published author in our midst!

 

I'll get back to this when I have a little more time, but for starters I would question if some of the 1939 Hammond Raceway events were really MDTRA sanctioned - I'm thinking of the June 4, June 25, July 23, August 13 and September 10 events which were billed as Midwest, Central States, Western, National and Autumn Championships, respectively. Generally speaking, my sources have been newspaper reports which do not usually carry any information regarding the organisational structure of racing, but to me it looks like these events were some form of early open-comp races, hence the participation of guys like Bayliss Levrett or Jimmy Miller in the first place. Also, the MDTRA does not strike me as the sort of club to run more than one meeting on a given day!

 

So, like I said, it's very difficult for me to know which races qualify as MDTRA events, but I'll have a go through my records and perhaps it'd be best to list all (non-AAA) races in that area that I have and to then try and figure out, with your help, which club ran which one. Are you in?

 

Another thing: I have a different list of champions, albeit from secondary sources (the Jungle Park book, or maybe the Joie Ray bio, I don't recall):

 

1938 Charles Callahan

1939 Chick Smith

1940 Mike Salay

1941 Harold Shaw

1946 Cliff Griffith

1947 Cliff Griffith

1948 Wayne Padgett

1949 Gene Hartley ???

[sramoa]

A historian James Graybeal wrote to me:

 

"Chick never won the MDTRA championship that I know of. I had the 46,47 MDTRA championship trophy that Cliff won. Gene Hartley did not win the 49 championship. I thought Chick won the 38 (I think:KIRA) championship but could be 39. His Son Butch still lives in Frankfort and still has the trophy."

 

I agree that Hartley never won MDTRA championship,because it was a short season.

Edited by sramoa, 30 March 2014 - 21:40.

[sramoa]

 

So, like I said, it's very difficult for me to know which races qualify as MDTRA events, but I'll have a go through my records and perhaps it'd be best to list all (non-AAA) races in that area that I have and to then try and figure out, with your help, which club ran which one. Are you in?

 

 

 

You may publicly? Perhaps somebody has yet another record.

[supermod47]

I am in.  I was being all inclusive with my listing but it makes sense that the Hammond races in 1939 were not part of the series.   Most of my information comes from the National Auto Racing News and, unlike today, sometimes you have to dig pretty deep to find any mention of a sanctioning body.  All part of the fun!

later,

Bob Mays

[sramoa]

Also I am looking for Central States Racing Association events date(and winners) from 1939 to 1941.I tried to Buzz Rose' book and other way,but not too much result.

[supermod47]

1939 CSRA Winners

1-2                   Savannah GA               Buddy Rusch

5-7                   Jungle Park IN             Jimmie Wilburn            

5-14                 Greenville OH              Jimmie Wilburn

5-28                 Winchester IN              Jimmie Wilburn

6-11                 Ft. Wayne IN               Jimmie Wilburn

6-18                 Jungle Park IN             Duke Dinsmore

6-18                 Ft. Wayne IN               Jimmie Wilburn

6-25                 Greenville OH              Jimmie Wilburn

6-25                 Winchester IN              Steve Truchan

7-9                   Winchester IN              Jimmie Wilburn 

7-9                   Ft. Wayne IN               Spider Webb

7-16                 Dayton OH                  Duke Dinsmore

7-23                 Hammond IN               Bayliss Leverett           

8-6                   Greenville OH              Duke Dinsmore

8-13                 Dayton OH                  Jimmie Wilburn 

8-27                 Winchester IN 

8-28                 Ft. Wayne IN               Everett Saylor

8-31                 Belleville KS                 Pappy Booker

9-1                   Belleville KS                 Pappy Booker 

9-3                   Ft. Wayne IN              

9-9                   DuQuoin IL                  Jimmie Wilburn 

9-10                 Winchester IN              Jimmie Wilburn  

9-17                 Ft. Wayne IN               Jimmie Wilburn

10-1                 Jungle Park IN             Jimmie Wilburn 

10-8                 Dayton OH                 Johnny Crone

10-15               Savannah GA               Jimmie Wilburn

10-29               Atlanta GA                  Jimmie Wilburn 

11-26               Savannah GA               Bob Sall                                  

?-?                   Dayton OH                 Spider Webb

 

Feel free to fill in the blanks or point anything which doesn't belong.  I hope to get to 1940 and 1941 in the next couple of days.

later, 

Bob Mays

[supermod47]

Here is what I have for CSRA 1940.

 

1940 CSRA Winners

4-28                 Dayton OH                  Jimmie Wilburn

5-5                   Jungle Park IN            Johnny DeCamp

5-12                 Tiffin OH                    Johnny Holmes

5-26                 Winchester IN             Jimmie Wilburn

5-30                 Uniontown PA            Jimmie Wilburn

6-2                   Dayton OH                  Jimmie Wilburn

6-3                   Ft. Wayne IN              Jimmie Wilburn

6-9                   Ft. Wayne IN              Jimmie Wilburn

6-17                 Greenville OH             Jimmie Wilburn

6-23                 Jungle Park IN             Jimmie Wilburn

6-30                 Winchester IN             Johnny DeCamp  

7-4                   Uniontown PA             Jimmie Wilburn 

8-29                 Belleville KS               Johnny DeCamp

8-30                 Belleville KS               Tommy Legge 

9-5                   Clarksburg WV

9-6                   Clarksburg WV

9-7                   DuQuoin IL

9-22                 Greenville OH             Jimmie Wilburn

9-29                 Jungle Park IN             Les Adair

10-6                 Marion OH                  Harry Robtoy

?-?                   ?                                   Jimmie Wilburn 

 

Later,

Bob Mays

[supermod47]

Here is CSRA 1941.  Lots of questions marks in this one.

 

1941 CSRA Winners

4-20                 Reading PA                  Jimmie Wilburn

4-27                 Sandusky OH               Ben Musick

5-4                   Greenville OH              Jimmie Wilburn

5-9                   Greenville OH              Everett Saylor

5-18                 Greenville OH

5-30                 Uniontown PA              Jimmie Wilburn

5-30                 Altamount NY              Bob Sall

5-30                 Charlotte NC

6-1                   Sioux Falls SD             Emory Collins

6-8                   Greenville OH              Johnny Shackelford

6-22                 Davison MI                  Ralph Hogan

7-4                   South Bend IN              Jimmie Wilburn

7-6                   Columbus OH               Jimmie Wilburn

7-13                 Greenville OH              Jimmie Wilburn

7-27                 Greenfield IN               Jimmie Wilburn

8-2                   Hartingon DE               Ted Horn

8-3                   Ft. Wayne IN               Jimmie Wilburn

8-4                   Dayton OH                  Jimmie Wilburn

8-8                   Clearfield PA

8-16                 Batavia NY                  Bob Sall

8-20                 Sioux Falls SD            Emory Collins

8-21                 Sioux Falls SD            Emory Collins

8-22                 Preston MN                 Emory Collins

8-23                 Bedford PA

8-23                 Albert Lea MN

8-24                 Sioux Falls SD             Eddie Nicholson

8-28                 Belleville KS                Jimmy Webb

8-30                 Flemington NJ             Bob Sall

8-31                 Mason City IA             Emory Collins

8-31                 Columbus OH              Bob Simpson

9-1                   Flemington NJ              Rex Records

9-1                   Huron SD                     Emory Collins

9-5                   Huron SD                     Emory Collins

9-6                   Dunkirk NY                 Ted Horn

9-8                   Spencer IA                   Emory Collins

9-13                 Spencer IA                   Emory Collins

9-14                 Reading PA                  Ted Horn

9-14                 Greenville OH              Bob Simpson

9-19                 Marshalltown IA

9-20                 Bloomsburg PA            Joie Chitwood

9-20                 Allentown PA               Ted Horn

9-24                 Greenville OH              Bob Simpson

9-27                 Richmond VA              Ted Horn

9-28                 Trenton NJ                   Joie Chitwood

10-1                 Greensboro NC            Ted Horn

10-4                 Shelby NC                    Ted Horn

10-11               Winston-Salem NC      Joie Chitwood

10-11               Spartenburg SC

10-12               High Point NC              Jimmie Wilburn

10-18               Raleigh NC

10-25               Columbia SC                Ted Horn

11-1                 Charlotte NC

11-2                 Charlotte NC                Ted Horn

11-11               Phoenix AZ

?-?                   Trenton NJ                    Ted Horn

?-?                   Allentown PA               Joie Chitwood

?-?                   Bloomsburg PA            Joie Chitwood

?-?                   Flemington NJ              Ted Horn

?-?                   Hibbing MN                 Emory Collins

?-?                   Hutchinson MN

?-?                   New Ulm MN

?-?                   Sac City IA

later,

Bob Mays

[Michael Ferner]

Good stuff, Bob, thanks for posting!

 

I'll have a go at 1940 first, because 1939 seems to be a little complicated because of the AAA/CSRA affiliation from late '38 to early '39 - like I said, most of my info comes from newspapers which rarely mention sanctioning bodies, and I usually try to sort of guess by the drivers and cars which take part in the meetings (can be tricky!). Also, 1941 is a bit of a mess, with the Hankinson circuit from the AAA and the Sweeney/White circuit from the IMCA coming in, planting the seeds for CSRA's downfall in the end. Somehow, Witte seems to have lost focus here, and when things returned to "normal" after the war, he was left with a de facto class B circuit.

 

I have for 1940:

 

Apr 28, Dayton/OH, Jimmie Wilburn?

May 5, Jungle Park/IN, Johnny de Camp

May 12, Greenville/OH, Jimmie Wilburn

May 19, Fort Wayne/IN, rain

May 26, Winchester/IN, Jimmie Wilburn

May 30, Uniontown/PA, rain, pp to Jun 1, rain again

Jun 2, Dayton/OH, Jimmie Wilburn

Jun 9, Fort Wayne/IN, Jimmie Wilburn?

Jun 16, Greenville/OH, Jimmie Wilburn

Jun 23, Jungle Park/IN, Jimmie Wilburn

Jun 30, Winchester/IN, Johnny de Camp

Jul 4, Uniontown/PA, Jimmie Wilburn

Jul 7, Dayton/OH, rain?

Jul 21, Columbus/OH, rain

Jul 28, Greenville/OH, ???

Aug 4, Dayton/OH, Jimmie Wilburn?

Sep 2, Uniontown/PA, cancelled?

Sep 7, Du Quoin/IL, ???

Sep 8, Winchester/IN, Jimmie Wilburn

Sep 15, Fort Wayne/IN, Jimmie Wilburn

Sep 22, Greenville/OH, Elbert Booker

Sep 29, Jungle Park/IN, Les Adair

Oct 6, Marion/OH, Harry Robtoy

 

 

A few notes: I, too, have the Tiffin/OH meet on May 12, but without results, and no info about sanction. It is possible that the CSRA ran a second circuit in '39, as I have a note about a meet at Davison/MI on Jul 28, promoted by CSRA car owner Mel Moore, and reputedly a race for the "Class C circuit" (!) of the CSRA. No results, not even prospective entries, and I have never read about that anywhere else, but maybe the Tiffin race was also "Class C"??? Also, the Belleville races: possibly CSRA from the cars and drivers participating, but I do recall reading in a Belleville newspaper (which used to be good for the early thirties, but by this time had run out of passion for the races) that the races were always unsanctioned. Same possibly for the Nebraska State Fair races at Lincoln, Sep 1, won by Ben Musick from Robtoy, Engle and Legge. Not a full CSRA field, so if pressed I'd say unsanctioned.

 

 

EDIT: just a quick search turned up interesting info in a Utah (!) newspaper: new for 1940 there were four CSRA circuits; class A 249 CID max. and $1,500 purse min., class B 214 CID and $500, class A midgets 105 CID $500 and class C midgets unlimited engines and $350!

Edited by Michael Ferner, 09 April 2014 - 21:54.

[sramoa]

Thank you very much for your answers, great!

 

In connection with the CSRA two things are not clear: 

 

-Was there only one event in 1935 or more were it?(For example:Winchester  Speedway book says 1935 Winchester Spd events were CSRA sanctioned)

 

-I have an 1938 events list.Correct or not?

 

 

The Rim Riders' book says:
"race activity from May 8 to December 4"-29 races,from last of October with southern division...

I found the following events:

05/08 Jungle Park
05/15 Hammond(rained out)
05/22 Hammond
05/15 Greenville
05/29 Winchester
05/30 Sharon
06/05 Hammond
07/03 Sharon
07/10 Winchester
07/24 Hammond
07/31 Greenville
08/07 Wheeling
08/14 Sharon
08/21 Hammond
08/28 Fort Wayne
09/04 Sharon
09/10 DuQuoin
09/11 Winchester
09/18 Jungle Park
09/21 Hammond
10/09 Hammond
11/13 Savannah

The book thinks there were:Columbus,OH Belleville,KS Louisville,KY Toledo,OH Danville,IL,Wheeling,WV, Alttoona,PA and Erie,PA.

[supermod47]

Sramoa,

Here is my CSRA winners list for 1938, it is pretty close to yours:

 

Italiced races are questionable as to sanction, but they look like CSRA.

 

1938 CSRA Winners

1-16                 Savannah GA              Harry Sheeler

1-22                 Savannah GA              Everett Saylor

1-30                 Savannah GA              Everett Saylor

5-8                   Jungle Park IN            Jimmie Wilburn

5-15                 Greenville OH             Doc Shanebrook

5-22                 Ft. Wayne IN               Jimmy Wilburn

5-29                 Winchester IN              Jimmy Wilburn

5-30                 Sharon PA                   Doc Shanebrook

6-5                   Dayton OH                  Doc Shanebrook

6-5                   Hammond IN               Jimmie Wilburn

6-11                 Altoona PA                  Joie Chitwood

6-12                 Columbus IN                Jimmy Wilburn

6-19                 Greenville OH              Morris Musick

7-3                   Hatfield OH                 Jimmie Wilburn

7-3                   Sharon PA                   Everett Saylor

7-4                   Monongahela City PA  Bud Henderson

7-11                 Winchester IN              Duke Dinsmore

7-17                 Dayton OH                  Duke Dinsmore

7-24                 Hammond IN               Johnny McDowell

8-7                   Wheeling WV               Jimmie Wilburn

8-14                 Sharon PA                   Everett Saylor

8-14                 Greenville OH              Jimmy Wilburn

8-21                 Hammond IN               Joie Chitwood

8-21                 Columbus IN                Clay Corbitt

8-21                 Dayton OH

8-28                 Ft. Wayne IN               Everett Saylor

9-1                   Belleville KS                 Everett Saylor

9-4                   Sharon PA                   Morris Musick

9-5                   Wheeling WV

9-10                 DuQuoin IL                  Jimmie Wilburn

9-11                 Winchester IN              Spider Webb

9-18                 Jungle Park IN             Jimmie Wilburn

9-25                 Greenville OH              Buddy Rusch

10-2                 Columbus IN               Jimmie Wilburn

10-30               Savannah GA               Jimmie Wilburn

11-13               Savannah GA               Jimmie Wilburn

11-20               Savannah GA               Jimmie Wilburn

12-4                 Savannah GA               Buddy Rusch

12-18               Savannah GA               Joie Chitwood 

 

later,
Bob

[supermod47]

Micheal,

 

The source for the  May 12, 1940 Tiffin Ohio race is National Auto Racing News, May 23, 1940 edition, page three, under the headline, HERB MANGUS FATALLY INJURED.  Johnny Holmes was leading with Mangus, Bob Simpson and Eddie Zalucki chasing.  On the 11th lap, Mangus and Simpson tangled and Mangus was killed.  The story did not list any official results, I took it for granted that Holmes was paid for first, with the rest of the finish in question.  Belleville is a big question mark, but it is odd that DeCamp would tow all the way out there while in the middle of a hot point battle if it were not a point race.  The fact that second day feature winner, Tommy Legge, finished in 19th in points with 25 markers makes me wonder as well, since I don't where else he would have run to score points with CSRA.  It is possible that Whitte counte them as point races with collecting any sanction fee.  Wilburn ran there in '38 and hated the place, so it's no wonder that he skipped it in '40, even if it were a point race.  Same deal with the Lincoln, NE races.

 

This is all really good stuff!

 

later,

Bob Mays

[sramoa]

Thanks Bob again!

 

Possible any info for my old question?

 

"Mile High Racing Association

 

some events in 1940 in Kansas,but I don't have any info(more tracks and others)

 

and 

 

National Auto Racing Association(at Wasco,Freeport,Paris and others)"

[supermod47]

Was the Mile High Racing Association Tom Holden's group which ran western Kansas and eastern Colorado in the 1930s and 1940s?  I have never seen anything that would indicate any points were kept.  Around 1950, Holden went into the thrill show business and the circuit was taken over by Jack Merrick, of Dodge City, who incorporated track roadsters for a couple of years before creating the United Motor Contest Association in 1952. I know next to nothing about the National Auto Racing Association.

later,

Bob Mays

[Michael Ferner]

Micheal,

 

The source for the  May 12, 1940 Tiffin Ohio race is National Auto Racing News, May 23, 1940 edition, page three, under the headline, HERB MANGUS FATALLY INJURED.  Johnny Holmes was leading with Mangus, Bob Simpson and Eddie Zalucki chasing.  On the 11th lap, Mangus and Simpson tangled and Mangus was killed.  The story did not list any official results, I took it for granted that Holmes was paid for first, with the rest of the finish in question.  Belleville is a big question mark, but it is odd that DeCamp would tow all the way out there while in the middle of a hot point battle if it were not a point race.  The fact that second day feature winner, Tommy Legge, finished in 19th in points with 25 markers makes me wonder as well, since I don't where else he would have run to score points with CSRA.  It is possible that Whitte counte them as point races with collecting any sanction fee.  Wilburn ran there in '38 and hated the place, so it's no wonder that he skipped it in '40, even if it were a point race.  Same deal with the Lincoln, NE races.

 

This is all really good stuff!

 

later,

Bob Mays

 

Good reasoning about the Belleville races - on the other hand, Belleville always offered very good purses, and a two-day meeting on an otherwise CSRA-free weekend (the Uniontown race had been cancelled long before; the track had gone AAA in August) with the additional possibility to make some hay in the area (Des Moines, Lincoln, Sedalia etc.), but Legge? Yes, that's true; I doubt he went further east that year.

 

Anyway, trying to look into 1938 and '39, I discover lots of "trouble". There was some sort of southern tour in the winters of both 1937/'38 and '38/'39, but whether these races were CSRA sanctioned or not, they do not seem to have counted for the "main" season, usually starting in May. Perhaps we should list them seperately?

 

The "regular" 1937 season ended in September, and the winter season started somewhat ad hoc with a Hankinson circuit race at Spartanburg/SC for which the AAA sanction was withdrawn at the last minute (I believe it was purse-related). Don't know if the CSRA stepped in as they did a couple of years later at the Illinois State Fair, but Ev Saylor was there with Floyd Dreyer, the winningest combination in CSRA that year, teaming up for a last time before Dreyer went home, and Saylor took the car to Georgia to sell it there, and race Tony Willman's Bagley/Cragar instead - I think Bill Breitenstein was in the South as well, trying to negotiate a mini-AAA series, but failed, so Willman may have gone there more in hope than expectation.

 

1937

 

Oct 16, Spartanburg/SC, Ev Saylor

Oct 31, Savannah/GA, Joie Chitwood?

Nov 7, Jacksonville/FL, Joie Chitwood

 

1938

 

Jan 16?, Savannah/GA, ???

Jan 25, Tampa/FL, Ev Saylor (very probably IMCA)

Jan 30, Savannah/GA, Ev Saylor

Feb 6, Savannah/GA, ???

Feb 27, De Land/FL, Hugh Dixon (probably IMCA)

 

Apr 24, Columbus/OH, Joie Chitwood

May 8, Jungle Park/IN, Jimmie Wilburn

May 15, Greenville/OH, Jimmie Wilburn

May 22, Fort Wayne/IN, Jimmie Wilburn?

May 22, Hammond/IN, Joie Chitwood

May 29, Winchester/IN, Jimmie Wilburn

May 30, Sharon/OH, Doc Shanebrook

Jun 5, Dayton/OH, Doc Shanebrook?

Jun 5, Hammond/IN, Jimmie Wilburn

Jun 11, Altoona/PA, Joie Chitwood

Jul 3, Sharon/OH, Ev Saylor

Jul 10, Winchester/IN, Duke Dinsmore

Jul 17, Dayton/OH, Duke Dinsmore

Jul 24, Hammond/IN, Johnny McDowell

Jul 31, Greenville/OH, ???

Aug 7, Wheeling/WV, Jimmie Wilburn

Aug 14, Cleveland/OH, ???

Aug 14, Greenville/OH, Jimmie Wilburn

Aug 14, Sharon/OH, Ev Saylor

Aug 14, South Bend/IN, Ted Wright?

Aug 21, Hammond/IN, Joie Chitwood

Aug 28, Fort Wayne/IN, Joie Chitwood?

Sep 1, Belleville/KS, Ev Saylor

Sep 2, Belleville/KS, rain

Sep 4, Franklin/IN, Charley Engle

Sep 4, Sharon/OH, Morris Musick

Sep 5, New Kensington/PA, ???

Sep 5, Wheeling/WV, Ev Saylor

Sep 10, Du Quoin/IL, Bud Henderson

Sep 11, Winchester/IN, Spider Webb

Sep 18, Jungle Park/IN, Jimmie Wilburn

Sep 25, Greenville/OH, Buddie Rusch

 

Nov 13, Savannah/GA, Jimmie Wilburn

Nov 20, Savannah/GA, Jimmie Wilburn

Nov 27, Jacksonville/FL, Joe Garson

Dec 2, Savannah/GA, ???

Dec 4, Savannah/GA, Buddie Rusch

Dec 18, Savannah/GA, Joie Chitwood

 

 

There was, also, a race at "Mon City" (Monongahela) in PA on July 4 which may have been CSRA co-sanctioned - all the top drivers were there, but newspaper reports said it was Central Pennsy sanction; Bud Henderson won. I have the Columbus/June 12 race sanctioned by an obscure "Indiana State Auto Racing Assoc.", by the way - it may have been the promoter, however.

Edited by Michael Ferner, 18 April 2014 - 15:01.

[Michael Ferner]

Here's 1939:

 

Jan 2, Savannah/GA, Joie Chitwood

Jan 15, Savannah/GA, rain

Jan 22, Savannah/GA, ???

Feb 5, Savannah/GA, Tony Willman

Feb 19, Savannah/GA, Tony Willman

Mar 5, Savannah/GA, ???

 

The situation is additionally complicated by the fact that CSRA and AAA affiliated that winter, and Breitenstein was succesful this time: he took control of the Florida State Fair races from the IMCA for Hankinson and the AAA, with Willman winning three races and Henderson the fourth and last of the series.

 

May 7, Jungle Park/IN, Jimmie Wilburn

May 14, Greenville/OH, Jimmie Wilburn?

May 21, Fort Wayne/IN, rain

May 28, Winchester/IN, Jimmie Wilburn?

May 30, Sharon/OH, Jimmie Wilburn

Jun 4, Dayton/OH, Spider Webb

Jun 11, Jungle Park/IN, rain

Jun 18, Jungle Park/IN, Duke Dinsmore

Jun 25, Hammond/IN, Steve Truchan (possibly MDTRA, or open comp)

Jul 9, Winchester/IN, Jimmie Wilburn

Aug 13, Dayton/OH, Jimmie Wilburn?

Aug 19, Springfield/IL, Johnnie Crone (was originally AAA, sanction dropped due to short purse)

Aug 28, Fort Wayne/IN, Ev Saylor

Aug 31, Belleville/KS, Elbert Booker

Sep 1, Belleville/KS, Elbert Booker

Sep 9, Du Quoin/IL, Jimmie Wilburn?

Sep 10, Winchester/IN, Ev Saylor?

Sep 17, Fort Wayne/IN, Jimmie Wilburn?

Sep 24, Greenville/OH, ???

Oct 1, Jungle Park/IN, Jimmie Wilburn

Oct 8, Dayton/OH, Johnnie Crone

 

 

Oct 29, Lakewood/GA, Jimmie Wilburn

Nov 5?, Savannah/GA, Bob Sall

Nov 26?, Savannah/GA, ???

 

The Dayton/Oct 8 race was billed as the "CSRA Final", but the Atlanta race was advertised as CSRA, too. Not so sure about the Savannah races, may have been IMCA, but anyway the winter series petered out.

[Michael Ferner]

Here is CSRA 1941.  Lots of questions marks in this one.

 

1941 CSRA Winners

4-20                 Reading PA                  Jimmie Wilburn

4-27                 Sandusky OH               Ben Musick

5-4                   Greenville OH              Jimmie Wilburn

5-9                   Greenville OH              Everett Saylor

5-18                 Greenville OH

5-30                 Uniontown PA              Jimmie Wilburn

5-30                 Altamount NY              Bob Sall

5-30                 Charlotte NC

6-1                   Sioux Falls SD             Emory Collins

6-8                   Greenville OH              Johnny Shackelford

6-22                 Davison MI                  Ralph Hogan

7-4                   South Bend IN              Jimmie Wilburn

7-6                   Columbus OH               Jimmie Wilburn

7-13                 Greenville OH              Jimmie Wilburn

7-27                 Greenfield IN               Jimmie Wilburn

8-2                   Hartingon DE               Ted Horn

 

 

Well, 1941 will be fun, but I'll leave that for another day. Just a few notes: Sandusky/Apr 27 is probably not CSRA, as I have info that Reading was round 1, and Greenville/May 4 round 2. Also have a points standing from after Greenville which does not leave room for an adiitional race. Altamont/May 30 was AAA, definitely - Sall won in a Ted Horn team car, and the whole team (Horn, Sall and Hinnershitz) switched over in time for the Kent-Sussex Fair at Harrington/DE on Aug 2, the traditional Hankinson Fair Opener. There, however, the three Horn cars ran only in a 5-lap match race, with Horn winning from Sall and Hinnershitz; the main event was actually won by Harry Harper in the Wynn/Hal.

[sramoa]

Great infos!!!Thanks!

 

Question about 1935 CSRA "season":was it only one event(at Dayton) or more?

[Michael Ferner]

Only one race in '35.

[supermod47]

1938 CSRA

The 5-15 Greenville OH race report from the 5-19-38 issue of National Auto Racing News page 3, has Shanebrook winning, Wilburn 2nd; Morris Musick 3rd and Larry Beckett 4th.

The 8-28 Ft. Wayne race report from the 9-1-38 NARN page 3, has Saylor 1st; Duke Dinsmore 2nd; Johnny DeCamp 3rd; M. Musick 4th; Henry Schlosser 5th; Mike Salay 6th.

 

1939 CSRA

8-14 South Bend/Ted Wright and 9-4 Franklin/Charlie Engle I have as being MDTRA.

 

1941

Very good points, I don't know why I thought the 4-27 Sandusky was CSRA, but it ws probably independent.  I should have known the 5-30 Altamont race was AAA; Hartington I was suckered in by the headlines!.

 

later,

Bob Mays

[sramoa]

Anybody has got info about these two big car "championships" from 1934?

 

KARA big cars in 7/22 at Danville Fairgrounds,IL

 

SAE big cars in 9/1 at Anna Fairgrounds,IL(John Tersinor won)

[supermod47]

I can help with the SAE race.

 

Sparta Amusement Enterprises, Inc. (SAE)

Anna County Fair, Anna, IL

Qualifying-1.Johnny Tersinor (Ed Davis, owner); 2. Tommy Thompson; 3. Port DeFrates

1st heat-1. Tersinor; 2. Thompson.

2nd heat-1. DeFrates; 2. Pappy Booker.

3rd heat-1. Runpan; 2. Reed.

Feature-1. Tersinor; 2. Thompson; 3. Leeds; 4. Runyan.

Attendence: 2,500

source: National Auto Racing News, 9-13-34, page 4

 

The end of the story hyped an upcoming race at the Randolph County Fair in Sparta, IL for 9-29.

later,

Bob Mays

[sramoa]

Great stories and results!

 

It was  a championship in Texas-Oklahoma area in 30s years(I think from 1932 to 1937?).I think it wasn't AAA.Who were champions and what tracks ran(with winners)?

[sramoa]

Here is CSRA 1941.  Lots of questions marks in this one.

 

1941 CSRA Winners

4-20                 Reading PA                  Jimmie Wilburn

4-27                 Sandusky OH               Ben Musick

5-4                   Greenville OH              Jimmie Wilburn

5-9                   Greenville OH              Everett Saylor

5-18                 Greenville OH

5-30                 Uniontown PA              Jimmie Wilburn

5-30                 Altamount NY              Bob Sall

5-30                 Charlotte NC

6-1                   Sioux Falls SD             Emory Collins

6-8                   Greenville OH              Johnny Shackelford

6-22                 Davison MI                  Ralph Hogan

7-4                   South Bend IN              Jimmie Wilburn

7-6                   Columbus OH               Jimmie Wilburn

7-13                 Greenville OH              Jimmie Wilburn

7-27                 Greenfield IN               Jimmie Wilburn

8-2                   Hartingon DE               Ted Horn

8-3                   Ft. Wayne IN               Jimmie Wilburn

8-4                   Dayton OH                  Jimmie Wilburn

8-8                   Clearfield PA

8-16                 Batavia NY                  Bob Sall

8-20                 Sioux Falls SD            Emory Collins

8-21                 Sioux Falls SD            Emory Collins

8-22                 Preston MN                 Emory Collins

8-23                 Bedford PA

8-23                 Albert Lea MN

8-24                 Sioux Falls SD             Eddie Nicholson

8-28                 Belleville KS                Jimmy Webb

8-30                 Flemington NJ             Bob Sall

8-31                 Mason City IA             Emory Collins

8-31                 Columbus OH              Bob Simpson

9-1                   Flemington NJ              Rex Records

9-1                   Huron SD                     Emory Collins

9-5                   Huron SD                     Emory Collins

9-6                   Dunkirk NY                 Ted Horn

9-8                   Spencer IA                   Emory Collins

9-13                 Spencer IA                   Emory Collins

9-14                 Reading PA                  Ted Horn

9-14                 Greenville OH              Bob Simpson

9-19                 Marshalltown IA

9-20                 Bloomsburg PA            Joie Chitwood

9-20                 Allentown PA               Ted Horn

9-24                 Greenville OH              Bob Simpson

9-27                 Richmond VA              Ted Horn

9-28                 Trenton NJ                   Joie Chitwood

10-1                 Greensboro NC            Ted Horn

10-4                 Shelby NC                    Ted Horn

10-11               Winston-Salem NC      Joie Chitwood

10-11               Spartenburg SC

10-12               High Point NC              Jimmie Wilburn

10-18               Raleigh NC

10-25               Columbia SC                Ted Horn

11-1                 Charlotte NC

11-2                 Charlotte NC                Ted Horn

11-11               Phoenix AZ

?-?                   Trenton NJ                    Ted Horn

?-?                   Allentown PA               Joie Chitwood

?-?                   Bloomsburg PA            Joie Chitwood

?-?                   Flemington NJ              Ted Horn

?-?                   Hibbing MN                 Emory Collins

?-?                   Hutchinson MN

?-?                   New Ulm MN

?-?                   Sac City IA

later,

Bob Mays

 

A small correction.This event

 

10-12               High Point NC              Jimmie Wilburn

 

was IMCA #1389 sanctioned race.

[sramoa]

Not really Pre-war top tens-but does anybody info for Maine State Fairgrounds(at Lewiston,ME) big car winners and possible dates?

[sramoa]

It was  a championship in Texas-Oklahoma area in 30s years(I think from 1932 to 1937?).I think it wasn't AAA.Who were champions and what tracks ran(with winners)?

[SprintCore]

I found some other pre-war big car championships

 

KIRA(kentucky-Indiana Racing Association) Big cars

 

1940

 

06/02-Greenfield,IN-20L/D-Ray Telles

06/30-Evansville,IN-/D-Slim Rutherford

07/04-Greenfield,IN-20L/D-Slim Rutherford

07/14-Salem,IN-

07/21-Lebanon,KY

07/28-Danville,IL

 

That's all my info

 

 

I've been found an article where were champions:

 

1936 Chick Smith

1937 Chick Smith

1938 Chick Smith

1939 ?

1940 Slim Rutherford

[sramoa]

Hey All,

 

I've been found some more big car clubs in this era,but no more infos....anybody can help me?

 

RCOA/NE in 1935 and 1936,events ran Marlborough,Worcester and Weymouth(NE-possible New England,but what was RCOA and champions?)

 

TSMSA  and ASRA big cars ran at 1936 in Salisbury,Md

 

NMRA big cars ran Quakertown,PA in 1936

 

TARA big cars ran 1936/37 Washington Raceway and Arden Downs tracks

 

ECRA big cars ran at Bucks County Fair in 1937

 

NRA big cars ran Weymouth and Newmarket tracks in 1937

 

PCRA roadsters and sprint cars ran at Southern Speedway in 1937

 

CARA big cars ran Willits Speedway(CA) in 1937

 

ASARA big cars ran in Volusia Fair(FL) in 1937

[Jim Thurman]

Despite the fact that it might be of interest to as few as three or four people, I'm reactivating this thread as I've run across some information that leads to a need to set the record straight.

 

On the Colton (California) track. Mentioned in earlier posts in this thread as Inter-City Speedway, Tri-City Speedway and San Bernardino Speedway. It turns out these were two different tracks, even though everyone, myself included, had them as one in the same! This is how they should be listed:

 

Inter-City Speedway - 1/2 mile dirt oval (August 21, 1927 - November 4, 1928) Was located south of Colton, along the Colton-Riverside Highway, just south of the Santa Ana River.

 

Tri-City Speedway - 1/2 mile dirt oval (July 24, 1932 - March 3, 1935) (aka: San Bernardino Speedway) / located next to Tri-City Airport between San Bernardino, Colton and Redlands. Opened as San Bernardino Speedway.

 

Articles in the Colton Courier newspaper mention that many spectated for free at Inter-City by standing along the Santa Fe railroad tracks. I've pinpointed the location of Tri-City, which is east of Colton, via aerial photos and topographical maps. The nearest railroad tracks are Southern Pacific, and not within sight of the track site!

Edited by Jim Thurman, 10 November 2022 - 18:24.