20 replies to this topic

[Expeditious]

I assume that Honda will now keep to the "traditional" RA designation for their new car in 2008, but please do correct me if I'm wrong.

After a relatively dismal year in 2007, will the 2008 car fare much better? Well, it'll be the second car that will be designed in the full-scale wind-tunnel, perhaps they'll see the real benefits this coming season, as last season's wind-tunnel work was plagued by miscalibrations and misleading data.

Also, with both Jenson and Rubens confirmed for 2008, the team should see some stability on the driver side, although the same may not be true in terms of the technical staff where Honda have snatched up many big names.

The Honda Racing F1 Team can confirm that Jenson Button and Rubens Barrichello will remain as team-mates for a third consecutive year when they race together for Honda in 2008.

And with the recent "green" accolades, do you think we'll see a continued "green" livery, perhaps something different though, or will Honda return to their more traditional racing colours?

The Honda Racing F1 Team won two prestigious awards at the 2007 Green Awards which were held at the London Guildhall on Friday 26 October.

The team’s environmental myearthdreamTM initiative won its nominated category of Best PR Campaign with a budget of over £100k, against very strong competition from Marks & Spencer and Procter & Gamble.

The Honda campaign then went on to compete for the Grand Prix award for the best overall campaign, along with the 18 other winners on the night, including British Sky Broadcasting, DEFRA, Transport for London, the Guardian, Marks & Spencer and the Carbon Trust. The Grand Prix award was presented to the Honda Racing F1 Team as the campaign which best exemplified an outstanding environmental message and had the greatest capacity to raise awareness amongst the general public.

Shall we try and keep all Honda-related stuff to this thread to make the build-up to the 2008 season easier to follow?

Both quotes are courtesy of Honda Racing F1.

[wingwalker]

i give this thread two months before it's renamed to "honda: are they stuffed 2008?"
just kidding.
i can't imagine honda not making a step forward next year. but that would still mean they're well in the midfield. oh, and 2007 was not "relatively dismal". it was a complete disaster.

[Expeditious]

Originally posted by wingwalker
i give this thread two months before it's renamed to "honda: are they stuffed 2008?"
just kidding.
i can't imagine honda not making a step forward next year. but that would still mean they're well in the midfield. oh, and 2007 was not "relatively dismal". it was a complete disaster.

I have to disagree on it being a disaster, primarily because I think that Honda knowingly took a gigantic risk in their "revolutionary" car design, instead of evolving a decent car. It was a calculated risk and I think Honda always knew that it could blow up in their faces, as it turns out, I don't think it was as bad as it could have been.

Coupled with their wind-tunnel problems I think the 2007 performance is entirely explainable, however, it leaves them with a predicament in terms of which direction to take with the 2008 car, will it be an evolved 2007 car, an evolved 2006 car or is it worth trying to go revolutionary again?

[Owen]

Originally posted by wingwalker
i give this thread two months before it's renamed to "honda: are they stuffed 2008?"
just kidding.
i can't imagine honda not making a step forward next year. but that would still mean they're well in the midfield. oh, and 2007 was not "relatively dismal". it was a complete disaster.

Who made that original thread title? Think it was Kar. Turned out it was spot on! Well done that man.
Maybe the new title should be 'things can only get better'.
Seriously, Button deserves a better car, so good luck Honda.

[mmmcurry]

Originally posted by Expeditious

I have to disagree on it being a disaster, primarily because I think that Honda knowingly took a gigantic risk in their "revolutionary" car design, instead of evolving a decent car. It was a calculated risk and I think Honda always knew that it could blow up in their faces, as it turns out, I don't think it was as bad as it could have been.

What was revolutionary about the car, aside from it being slower tha last years?

Steve.

[LostProphet]

The packaging was quite revolutionary - if you recall we all went at the apparent lack of ... well ... engine when it was first released.

[Expeditious]

Originally posted by mmmcurry


What was revolutionary about the car, aside from it being slower tha last years?

Steve.

Did they not go with a revolutionary back-end? I'm pretty certain that they decided to pursue a different direction with the packaging, one that certainly hasn't worked out in the short-term.

[Peter Perfect]

Originally posted by LostProphet
The packaging was quite revolutionary - if you recall we all went at the apparent lack of ... well ... engine when it was first released.

It's got a tiny back end, so I don't think packaging will be a problem for next year.

The two problems they've got to solve/understand are:

1. Use of the BS tyres. Hopefully they've worked out a good basic layout for the suspension and should be able to finetune that through winter testing.

2. The biggy. Aero. They' really messed it up big time this year. Not only did it not provide enough downforce but it also made driving it a big challenge. Far too sensitive to pitch and wind conditions. Hopefully the new guys can make a difference here.

[Locai]

The only thing that I saw that was "revolutionary" about the 2007 car was that it was slower than the Super Aguri. How exactly does a customer car end up being faster than the factory car?

Oh, and they paid a huge amount of money to a "consultant" to find a sponsor...only to come up with no sponsors. That was pretty revolutionary, too.

[Expeditious]

Originally posted by Peter Perfect


It's got a tiny back end, so I don't think packaging will be a problem for next year.

The two problems they've got to solve/understand are:

1. Use of the BS tyres. Hopefully they've worked out a good basic layout for the suspension and should be able to finetune that through winter testing.

2. The biggy. Aero. They' really messed it up big time this year. Not only did it not provide enough downforce but it also made driving it a big challenge. Far too sensitive to pitch and wind conditions. Hopefully the new guys can make a difference here.

I think a lot of the aero problems were probably derived from the new back-end and the wind-tunnel problems. With new understanding of the back-end and with the fact that the wind-tunnel is now apparently correctly calibrated we could see a real resurgence from Honda.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by Expeditious

I have to disagree on it being a disaster, primarily because I think that Honda knowingly took a gigantic risk in their "revolutionary" car design, instead of evolving a decent car. It was a calculated risk and I think Honda always knew that it could blow up in their faces, as it turns out, I don't think it was as bad as it could have been.

Coupled with their wind-tunnel problems I think the 2007 performance is entirely explainable, however, it leaves them with a predicament in terms of which direction to take with the 2008 car, will it be an evolved 2007 car, an evolved 2006 car or is it worth trying to go revolutionary again?

They went from fighting at the front of the grid, to fighting to not be last. If thats not a disaster then what is? Following on from their performance in 2005, they should have been challangeing for the championship.

My fear is that they never really got to grips with the problems with the car, and that the same problems will be carried over to the new design.

[wingwalker]

Not a disaster? They've spent most of 2007 trying to figure out what their wind tunnel actually tells them. Oh, and not even fighting for points. Near the end of the season someone from Honda said something along the lines "new parts don't make the car quicker, but we're glad that they do what we thought they will". What an achievement. I think there is (or was, if it is finished by now) a serious brain storm at Honda as they really seemed to be in a no win situation - spending months on making their current car faster seems a very bad idea as chances it will be simply FAST are rather small, but I bet they're much more suspicious about doing everything from the scratch now.

[kNt]

The only pattern I can see is:

2004 good
2005 crap
2006 good (at least at the end of the year)
2007 crap

So as there are not two design teams (I think) Honda simply is inconsistent. With the current tightness of the field and pace of progress Honda can easily fail again.

[Risil]

The car was about as quick as anything in wet conditions. That alone means that Honda can't be written off totally - there's clearly potential somewhere, buried under a mass of effluent, and they certainly have the budget to make the car go.

But Renault, BMW and Red Bull (= Toro Rosso?) will have moved on, so whether they'll get anywhere with a much-improved car, who knows?

[COUGAR508]

Some of Honda's difficulties in 2007 may be attributed to "growing pains" resulting from the expansion of the technical team. Hopefully things will have settled down sufficiently for the team to be focussed on learning from the mistakes of this year.

[Cheap Wine Alesi]

It is rumoured they might be trying to get rid of Rubens.

Will they get a main sponsor for next season, or will they continue with their "earth" comedy?

[amardeep]

"Honda 2008 Challenger [RA08]" RA108 surely ? :-)

[Clatter]

Originally posted by Risil
The car was about as quick as anything in wet conditions. That alone means that Honda can't be written off totally - there's clearly potential somewhere, buried under a mass of effluent, and they certainly have the budget to make the car go.

But Renault, BMW and Red Bull (= Toro Rosso?) will have moved on, so whether they'll get anywhere with a much-improved car, who knows?

What's the point of having a car thats quickish in the wet when the majority of races are dry?

They may well have the budget, but you only have to look at Toyota to see that throwing money at the car doesnt always translate to on-track performance.

[Red Behelit]

2008 won’t be much better for Honda.
They have worst team principal, worst technical director and worst internal structure.
Don’t forget that the others teams will also make a lot of progress and they will still be ahead of Honda.

And new aero guys still don’t know what’s the problem with their car.
Do you remember that they were planning to introduce in Japan a lot of new parts in order to test them for 2008. And after tests in Spain they dropped this idea. And this means that there is still chaos in their aero department. They still don’t know how to make their car faster and neither how to test parts for 2008.

[Nobody]

Honda need a photocopier.

[LostProphet]

I'm concerned that the RA108 will not be anything more than a midfield contender. As 2008 is likely to see Ferrari/McLaren/BMW/Renault all fighting together at the "front" it'll be a different sort of midfield, and one in which it's even more difficult to get points.
Honda don't need a good step. They need a HUGE step. They simply must start showing race winning speed so that they can mix it with the top eight and let their drivers make the difference when it comes to getting the points out on the track.

Given that consistently Honda have been mentioned to not understand fully why the 2004 car was so good, I don't think that a few extra aero guys will make much of a difference.

I really hope that I'm wrong.