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BMW 2008


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#1 shonguiz

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 11:14

Well every team has its 2008 topic, so i think this topic is needed, here you can disscuss the news and your thoughts about the future of the team.

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#2 noikeee

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 12:28

Hopefully this year wasn't an one-off and they'll remain competitive. But I'm not fully convinced yet.

#3 Dunc

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 12:41

I'm not totally convinced either. Several teams from outside the big four (Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and Benneton/Renault) have gotten themselves into the position of almost breaking in but have then failed when the acid test came. Witness Jordan in the late 1990 or BAR/Honda earlier this decade. BMW have the money and the expertise but I'm not sure they'll be willing to take a risk with the design of the car to get them as serious championship contenders.

#4 Josta

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 12:50

See Toyota 2005. Comfortably the 3rd fastest car followed by 2 years of fighting backmarkers.

#5 COUGAR508

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 13:34

It could be argued that to some extent BMW's 2007 performance was flattered by the frailties of Renault, Honda and Toyota. The budget and the ambition appear to be there, and this is just as well, because the other teams will not be standing still over the winter.

#6 F1Champion

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 13:54

I think BMW are a team that is lead with strong management, more importantly the team looks hungry for results.

They have all the facilities in place and some of the most advanced aero equipment in F1 which will definately propel them forward. They're slowly ramping up the aero team and they seem to be making all the right moves. They've got the right mentality, they have the most advanced wind tunnel in F1 but felt that wasn't enough and invested heavily in CFD and went and got a super computer and not just a standard one, they went for the best one they could get their hands on, perhaps the best in F1. It's this desire to get the best equipment in F1 that will pay dividends in the future, they're always on the look out for making a march on the competition.

I agree that 2008 will be a testing year, all the big teams are expected to be on top form so they'll have to fight with Renault and possibly Red Bull as well so we'll see if they can maintain their forward momentum. Their development pace is definately up their with the big teams.

#7 shonguiz

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 15:13

I agree with you guys, there's a risk to see them in bad situation in 2008 but this risk is very small because i think the BMW situation is nothing like Honda or Toy situation, BMW is very strongly managed, and so they invest their money in a very efficient way, F1 is all about technology and they have right now one of the best overall facilities and certainly the best CFD department, they are not the kind of team that sign One or two great names and sacrifice the quality of the rest (see rbr's case), the drivers are at least very good and their motorsport history is very prestigious, so they know the kind of attitude to adopt to succed and that's what i fell when iread MT's interviews, so overall i think they have a bright future, one or TWo victories and several podiums shouldn't be an illusion for the upcoming season.

#8 united

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 17:05

Originally posted by Josta
See Toyota 2005. Comfortably the 3rd fastest car followed by 2 years of fighting backmarkers.


In the beginning of the season we have already passed the phase of second-year-is-the-most-diffucult-beemer-will-struggle-for-sure.

And Heidfeld just sits there, you know.

I think they will do great.

#9 Walsingham

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 20:23

The only major change in the rules is standard ECU and no TC. They say BMW has very good mechanical grip so it shoulnt do much harm to them. Im afraid of four races gearbox rule more. It looked like BMW never solved their "hydraulics" problems.

Mario said he expects first win in 08. So far team performance was always far better then his official predictions so I guess he targets WCC ;) . BMW.Williams story shows they can stay in top three for quite long. Off course Sauber was never in a league with Williams, but looking at Williams performance without BMW support it looks like BMW is crucial factor.

#10 af1krak

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 00:37

@united :up:

I am in the same position as this time last year. In 2006 BMW had made a good step from 8th to 5th and this time last year I was anxious to find out how good a job they were going to do for 2007. And it was a very pleasant surprise to see BMW establish themselves as the 3rd power on the grid while at the same time building the team and the facilities. So, I am quite pleased this year. Now we all have got used to BMW being the 3rd best team and our expectation are higher for next year. Ahh... the long wait until the next season starts :(

As some posters have mentioned, BMW as the technology and the finance to fight at the front. I have high confidence in both the drivers as well. For me the wild card is the aero team personnell. They are not as well known as the ones in the top 2 teams. They did a very good job this year. Can they take it to the next level? And as MT repeatedly says, the team lacks the experience running at the top level that McLaren and Ferrari have. But going by the last 2 years, for me there are only good things to hope for next year.

#11 metz

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 02:37

Originally posted by COUGAR508
It could be argued that to some extent BMW's 2007 performance was flattered by the frailties of Renault, Honda and Toyota.

It could be argued that the BMW was flattered by Heidfeld and Kubica.;)

The future for BMW is bright.
They are down to earth and hard working.
Sure, every team can have a miss-step. Ferrari 05, Williams 06, and Honda, Renault 07.
But so far, they are doing everything right.
The only worrying thing is the staff changes, or swap with Honda staff.
Also, I have no idea how good Zimmermann will be.
Dr.T is not counting on Ferrari or McLaren to miss anything. He'll do it without their help.

With all the soap opera bullshit going on in F1 this year, BMW is the main reason I still follow the sport.
Bring on 2008. I can't wait... :clap:

#12 united

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 06:44

Originally posted by metz
Also, I have no idea how good Zimmermann will be.


I think the postion of chief designer is not of a great importance in BMW-Sauber. Jorg Zander was sent to Munich after a couple of GP (looked like an exile), but it did not hinder the development of the team. So Zimmermann will not spoil the party.

#13 noikeee

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 15:57

I found a very good article about BMW's 2007 season in this weeks' portuguese Autosport, and I translated it (took me a lot more time than I thought, it ended up being quite big!). It was written by Luis Vasconcelos, with some snippets from interviews to Willy Rampf, Mario Theissen, Nick Heidfeld, Robert Kubica, and some opinions by Gary Anderson (which is said in the article to be connected to the english Autosport, so I'm not sure if this is 100% ok to put it here). Anyway, here it is:

BMW Sauber, analysis to the 2007 vice-champion team

So close… yet so far!

The third force in the World Championship, promoted to vice-champion after McLaren’s declassification, BWM Sauber had a season way above expectations, but where it was also apparent that they still have a lot of work in front of them before being able to fight with the two top teams. In this analysis we’ll try to explain how the team progressed so much, and discover how they could’ve done even better with the excellent resources they already have.

Even the BMW directors voiced their surprise for being the third force in the Formula 1 World Championship this year, which ended with them overcoming the 100 points mark in the last race of the year. Heidfeld and Kubica rarely had to fight with the drivers of Renault, Williams, Red Bull and Toyota, but in some occasions the two drivers of the german brand troubled a lot the McLaren and Ferrari drivers, specially when the slightest problem affected the race of the “four great”.
A lot of internal factors contributed for this season above expectations, because BMW made a lot of correct choices since the beginning of the F1.07 project, but external factors also contributed, since there was no lack of teams running below what was clearly demanded from them: from Renault to Honda, Toyota and even Red Bull, a lot more was expected from all of them.

One pragmatic vision

Since the beginning of the season it could be seen that BMW had opted for a simple but effective project, as several times the technical director of Autosport, Gary Anderson, explained: “In terms of project sophistication, BMW were light-years behind Ferrari and McLaren, but looking at the resources the team has, at their experience level, and at the level of their main directors, I think it was the correct option. Throughout the year I never saw BMW come up with slight deviations, extreme curves or other kinds of solutions that take days and days in the wind-tunnel for 1 or 2 kilos of downforce. Basing the project and aerodynamic development of the F1.07 in the excellent CFD program they had, BMW focused in the areas were they could win 10 or 15 kilos of downforce at once, choosing to flow their resources into the issues where the gains could be bigger. I think they were a great example of pragmatism, but, on the other hand, ended up losing the wagon in certain aspects that most teams profited from and that they ignored a little, like the work done in the rear wings in the second half of the season. They could’ve gone further, I think, but they did an excellent job and I’ve got to praise them for that!”.
The vision expressed by Anderson finds an echo in the words of Willy Rampf, BMW’s strong man, who decides everything and who everything depends on, since Mario Theyssen handles only the political and administrative part, leaving the team management for his Technical Director. Rampf explained us that, “we know that our strong point was the super-computer Albert 2, which was programmed for aerodynamic simulation (CFD) and we bet everything on it, because it was our main weapon. With Albert 2 we started having less detail work in the wind-tunnel, because everything that came from the CFD department quickly gave the expected results. But we also didn’t have two wind-tunnels, neither the amount of people the front teams have to always do modifications in all the small parts, so we choose to focus our efforts in the areas that could give us bigger gains and with good results.”

Opponents far from the expectations

If BMW did an excellent job, arriving to Melbourne already with a good comprehension of the Bridgestone tyres characteristics and with a very well balanced chassis, Mario Theissen has no problems admitting that part of the teams’ success was due to the lesser performance of the rival teams: “We were expecting having to fight a lot to run at the same level of Renault and thought Honda and Toyota would give us a lot of work, but that didn’t happen. Flavio Briatore spent the last two seasons saying Renault was the team that spent less money for each point scored in the championship, but I think that in 2007 that record was ours. The three teams we thought would be our direct opponents this season failed, but Renault was the only who still managed to do a bit of a comeback, even if they never bothered us in standings of the Constructors World Championship. But I also have to give some merit to my team, because we overcame most of our reliability problems and we were extremely consistent. Our drivers were also nearly perfect, both in qualifying and in the race, so it looks to me like we did the maximum that was, at the moment, at our reach.”
Being a realist, the german admitted to us that, “the next step will be the hardest, because in 2008 our goal is to win our first Grand Prix and that’s not going to be easy, because Ferrari and McLaren still have a big advantage over us. But what we like is this kind of challenges and, therefore, we’re working at full speed to reach our future goals.”

What is preventing them from winning?

But what’s lacking from BMW from being able to fight with the two top teams in the near future? Robert Kubica placed the finger in the wound by mentioning the need to prepare two cars at the highest level and in the lack of aggressive mentality to reach victories (read the next story), but BMW’s own structure will have to evolve if the german team wants to enter the fight for championships.
Currently everything depends on Willy Rampf, from the conception of the car to its development, from the management on track to the choice of the better setups, from the preparation of strategies to their modification during the race. It’s already clear that the ability to be in charge isn’t Rampf’s strong point, and that could limit BMW’s possibilities, like Gary Anderson explained us: “I have been in the same situation as Willy, when I was at Jordan, and committed the same mistake he is committing. We don’t trust the people that are around us because they have less experience and we’ve seeing them commit errors and we want to solve everything, even if we pass some tasks to others. But the days still only have 24 hours and we don’t have time for everything. In Jordan we didn’t have the resources to hire experienced and talented people to who I could delegate part of my work, but BMW has those resources and Willy will have to choice between handling the project and its development, or the on-track management. He can’t keep on doing both, because he only has two arms, one head and two eyes, and in other teams his tasks are done by three or four people, which will be a disadvantage for BMW Sauber.”
That’s why 2008 will be fundamental for BMW, because they will have to keep improving, coming closer to Ferrari and McLaren, at the same time that they’ll have to resist to the unavoidable progresses from Renault, and maybe even Honda, teams that will hardly miss two consecutive projects.

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61 points – Nick Heidfeld admits surprise and frustration
“It ended up being a boring year”

Nick Heidfeld had in 2007 the year with better results in his career, scoring 61 points and finishing the World Championship in the fifth position. The small german driver admits that he didn’t expect such a big step ahead from BMW, compared to 2006, but believes that the errors from other teams helped his team to be the third force in the Championship this year.
Heidfeld had no problems explaining to us that, “when he arrived in Melbourne we didn’t expect to have clearly the third fastest car on track, but the truth is that Renault and Honda, who we were expecting to be our opponents, failed in their projects and we ended up being always the third best team, from the first to the last race. It’s clear that we have merit in it, even because the difference in times to McLaren and Ferrari kept itself stable, which means we evolved as much as they did throughout the season. We got the concept of the car right, focused our efforts in aerodynamic development, focusing on the areas where we could gain more from, because we didn’t have resources to work on as many details as the front teams did, and we fixed most of our reliability problems. I confess that the problem we had in our hydraulic system, which cost us important points, was a concern at a point, but we ended up having an above-average reliability and that helped to our final result, which was surprising.”

Heidfeld didn’t like the final part of the season

Equally surprising was Heidfeld’s confession that the final part of the season wasn’t to his liking: “From the Belgium GP onwards we didn’t have anything more to fight for. Our positions in both championships were safe and, therefore, the end of the year was a bit boring. Obviously we gave our best on the track, but I prefer to fight up to the last race, because adrenalin is an important factor for the drivers.” Curiously, Heidfeld doesn’t think this was his best season ever. “I think I didn’t do better than in the other years. What happened was that this time I had a very competitive car and everybody saw what I could do. I was quick and consistent, but I think that in the five or six last years I was as well.”
At the end, the german admits that, “only in Canada I thought I could win, because in Monza we got very surprised by the pace of the Ferrari and the McLaren, in a track we thought we’d be very competitive. Obviously Hamilton was quicker than me in Montreal, but with so many safety cars I always expected to surprise him in a re-start, or hoped he committed a mistake. It didn’t happen, so the first win will be in 2008, if BMW’s program will continue to develop the same way!”

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39 points – Low morale for Robert Kubica
“The team still has to evolve a lot!”

Robert Kubica’s morale was getting worse at the end of the year and after he had retired from the lead in the Chinese GP, the polish didn’t hide his frustration.
A lot more affected than Heidfeld by reliability problems that cost him a lot of points, Kubica also had to handle an inexperienced race engineer – the Iranian Mehdi Ahmadi – who did a lot of mistakes, without BMW sacking him. The relationship between the two of them got cold quickly, with Willy Rampf giving little consideration to Ahmadi despite keeping him until the end of the season. Therefore Kubica thinks that this was a year of lost opportunities for both him and BMW: “We are all very happy because we were the world vice-champions, but the difference to McLaren and Ferrari is still huge. The main difference is that BMW still doesn’t have the ability to race two cars at the highest level, unlike the top teams. In my case I lost qualifying opportunities, when they sent me too late for the track, and in the races, when they gave me completely wrong strategies, like in Monaco, and, obviously, with lots of reliability problems, like in the first two races of the season, in Belgium, or above all in China, we I could’ve won the race.”

Sauber mentality

The fact that everyone was happy with the results in the team leads Kubica to think that “the team still works with the Sauber mentality, when finishing in the points was a success and reaching the podium was like winning the championship. The people still didn’t do a transition of mentality to the current reality. We obviously aren’t Ferrari nor McLaren, but we have more than acceptable resources and we’ll need to hire talented and experienced people, that will contribute to BMW’s quick growth, because Renault, Honda and Toyota won’t have such bad years like 2007 again. We’ll need to evolve fast and well, so that we won’t lose our position as the third best team at the moment.”
At a personal level, Kubica believes he shown his talent, when he had the resources to do so: “I think I did the maximum I could, with the material I had at my disposal. In the few times I had trouble-free weekends, like in France and Great Britain, I was fourth placed and in China I shown I can win GPs even without the best car. But I didn’t have the reliability Nick had, and therefore, the difference in points was what it was. I only hope that in 2008 the team will be able to run two cars at the same level, so that I’ll be able to show what I’m capable of.”


Interesting that the journalist seems to sympathize with Kubica, and blame his lack of performance to the unexperienced race engineer he had, and the supposed inability BMW has to fully prepare two cars. Who knows, maybe it is indeed the truth, maybe it is a typical drivers' excuse.

#14 metz

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 17:48

Thank you paranoik0. :up:
That's A LOT of work.
Good content that many of us would have missed.

#15 Paul Prost

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 18:09

BMW will do fine.

Arguably the best (or one of the best) CFD departments on the grid. Willem Toet as head of aero, plus a couple of talented ex-Renault guys (some of whom had a big input on the 2005 and 2006 cars).. they'll be fine.

#16 thuGG

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 18:41

Originally posted by paranoik0
Interesting that the journalist seems to sympathize with Kubica, and blame his lack of performance to the unexperienced race engineer he had, and the supposed inability BMW has to fully prepare two cars. Who knows, maybe it is indeed the truth, maybe it is a typical drivers' excuse. [/B]


Yeah, the reliability issues were just imaginary and they fired Kubica's engineer because he was so good, right?

#17 barteks

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 21:14

Unreliability is the key word for BMW. They make me puzzled : Even during winter tests they are the lest trouble-free team....

#18 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 21:36

Originally posted by Paul Prost
BMW will do fine.

Arguably the best (or one of the best) CFD departments on the grid. Willem Toet as head of aero, plus a couple of talented ex-Renault guys (some of whom had a big input on the 2005 and 2006 cars).. they'll be fine.


Exactly. They have the facilities, the people and the funding to do it. Of course one could argue that Toyota does as well, but Sauber/BMW have managed to stay away from the strange management decisions and reshuffling that Toyota has seen.

There will be no excuse to finish any worse than third next year and by all means they should be threatening the top 4 more often, including a win or two.

#19 wingwalker

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 23:08

When Kubica was asked about biggest regret, he said it was Monaco. Journalist asked, why not China, and RK replied that he drove good in China, but also his decision to stick with dry tyres when rain started to fall mid race gave him a big advantege, he sounded like he knew it was random (he didn't even mention he was setting fastest laps at the time of retirement). As for Monaco, he choose his words very carefully, but it was apparent he knew he could have been on the podium without any fluke there - he was 3rd fastest in Q2 and in the race, but the team gave a pretty ridiculous strategy. I recall his father saying in Monaco pre-race show that RK wanted to have a light car in Q3 (he ended up being something like 13 or 14 laps heavier than NH) but the team refused, and RK wasn't happy about it at all.
Just writing this as above article reminded me of this. (thanks for that, paranoiko!)

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#20 barteks

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 16:10

Kubica's post-race statement in Monaco:

Unfortunately I don't think our one stop strategy was the right one for this year's Monaco. We expected Safety Car periods and these did not happen. Looking back now, I think we could have finished better , but I am happy to have scored some important points again. I had a small problem with the brakes soon after the start of the race and had to pump them all the time, which did not make me feel confident. Then I was stuck in traffic and at the end I had a sensor problem which meant I was without traction control for quite a long time .



Very interesting IMO :)

#21 amardeep

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 20:54

BMW seemed to have a quiet last third of the season. Safe in third place, drifting further away from Ferrari and McLaren. Probably due to scaling back development on the car to concentrate on next year's, which is an option they had to take up, surely. Can only help with '08.

#22 kNt

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 23:54

Apparently the computing power of Albert2 was roughly doubled to Albert3, curiously only read about it in a german it magazine.

#23 shonguiz

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 00:14

Originally posted by kNt
Apparently the computing power of Albert2 was roughly doubled to Albert3, curiously only read about it in a german it magazine.

And who bought Albert3 ??

#24 Josta

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 17:36

Looking at recent history, the BMW test seat is the most important of them all. In 2 seasons of F1, they have had 3 test drivers, all of which have signed race contracts. Not bad going, all things considered.

#25 kNt

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 19:19

Originally posted by shonguiz

And who bought Albert3 ??

BMW/Intel doesn't really mater if there's more money or processors going in.

from c'tDoch Intel legt jetzt in der Winterpause einen drauf und rüstet den gerade mal ein Jahr alten Supercomputer Albert2 mit rund 10 TeraFlop/s zum Albert3 auf. Bestückt mit modernen Quad-Cores dürfte dieser auf 20 TeraFlop/s und mehr kommen.


Intel is upping it's game over the winter-break and upgrades the only one year old Albert2 (with 10 10TF/s) to the Albert3. Equiped with modern Quad-Cores he might get to 20 TerFlop/s and more.

@Josta: I had the same thought to, and asked myself why?

#26 whatto999

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 19:57

Originally posted by Paul Prost
plus a couple of talented ex-Renault guys (some of whom had a big input on the 2005 and 2006 cars)


Do you know their names?

#27 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 22:42

Could Mario Theisen be the weak link in BMW? I mean, what has he achieved with them in the time he has been heading up their F1 involvement, despite an amost unlimited budget?
Maybe I´m talking nonsense here, so I would like to hear what the other forum members have to say about him.

#28 Josta

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 23:20

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
Could Mario Theisen be the weak link in BMW? I mean, what has he achieved with them in the time he has been heading up their F1 involvement, despite an amost unlimited budget?
Maybe I´m talking nonsense here, so I would like to hear what the other forum members have to say about him.


Well, I would say that in it's second season as a full manufacture team, he has taken BMW to number 2 in the WCC. I am not quite sure what more you expect from the guy??

#29 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 23:33

Originally posted by Josta


Well, I would say that in it's second season as a full manufacture team, he has taken BMW to number 2 in the WCC. I am not quite sure what more you expect from the guy??


Josta, I must say I´m not that clued up on the good Dr, but am I right in thinking he has been involved with their engine programe since the beginning? If so, they don´t have an aweful lot to show for it in terms of championships, do they?

#30 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 00:32

I don't think anyone can doubt team manager's abiliy who brought Sauber to third (second) in WCC! :blush:

Obviously the blame was with the conservative Williams chassis wasn't it, which dominated the odd race purely due to some very effective Michelin tyres and the thumping BMW engine (apart from the recycled 04 unit in 2005 :p ).

#31 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 10:23

Thanks guys. Well i sincerely hope I´m wrong where Dr Theisen is concerned as nothing would make me happier than to see the two BMWs battling it out at the front of the field.

#32 barteks

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 14:01

Originally posted by kNt
Apparently the computing power of Albert2 was roughly doubled to Albert3, curiously only read about it in a german it magazine.

Brilliant news! It seems BMW take very seriously competing in Formula 1.

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
Could Mario Theisen be the weak link in BMW? I mean, what has he achieved with them in the time he has been heading up their F1 involvement, despite an amost unlimited budget?

Look at World Touring Car Championship. Today he's attained 6th consecutive title (both WDC & WCC) for BMW in WTCC. I would say he's a good manager and hope he can transfer his abilities to F1 :)

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#33 shonguiz

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 14:24

MT is one of the best team mangaer if not the best.

#34 F1Champion

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 14:47

I hope Ferrari gets on the supercomputer bandwagon soon, because BMW seem so settled with the software and hardware. With the new upgrade one could speculate that they have the most powerful CFD of all the teams.

#35 metz

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 15:37

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer


Josta, I must say I´m not that clued up on the good Dr, but am I right in thinking he has been involved with their engine programe since the beginning? If so, they don´t have an aweful lot to show for it in terms of championships, do they?

I'm not a big fan of Dr.T I think he lacks some people skills.
But I do respect his achievements.
He took a 8th place team to 5th in his first year and then to 3rd in his second year.
Toyota and Honda took how long?
Do you have any idea how good a tem needs to be to beat the likes of Renault and Williams?
Yes he has been involved in the BMW engine program for some time. And over that time, there have been several disagreements with Williams. After the split, we can see who was correct.
The lack of championships was not due to the engine and Dr.T is out to prove it.

#36 barteks

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 15:51

Originally posted by F1Champion
With the new upgrade one could speculate that they have the most powerful CFD of all the teams.

Arguably they've already had the most powerful CFD with Albert2.

#37 Dolph

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 16:19

Are they still gonna be call Sauber in 2008 or just BMW?

#38 Josta

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 16:42

Originally posted by barteks

Arguably they've already had the most powerful CFD with Albert2.


There is no arguably about it. It ranks 166 on the top 500 supercomputers in the world. No other F1 team is higher.

#39 whatto999

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 16:49

Originally posted by F1Champion
I hope Ferrari gets on the supercomputer bandwagon soon, because BMW seem so settled with the software and hardware. With the new upgrade one could speculate that they have the most powerful CFD of all the teams.


Too bad we don't know data from Ferrari and McLaren because i'm sure they have impressive computing facilities, but BMW could easily be on top next year thanks to Albert 3.

But having the best aerodynamic tools doesn't automatically means that you will be front-runner. Despite the fact that aerodynamics will be even more important in 2008 than was in 2007 (because tyres, engine and ECU are/will be pretty similar in the context of performances), how aero team is using those tools and how much creativity they posses will at the end of the day decide who will fight for championship and who will not.

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#40 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 17:42

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
Thanks guys. Well i sincerely hope I´m wrong where Dr Theisen is concerned as nothing would make me happier than to see the two BMWs battling it out at the front of the field.


Please let me correct this post.

Thanks guys. I sincerely hope you are right where Dr T is concerned as nothing would make me happier than to see the two BMWs battling it out at the front of the field.

Truth is, I was asking for opinions with regards MT, not expressing one, as I confess to know very little about him. It just came out badly i´m afraid.
Nice to know he has a vote of confidence on here :up:

#41 Josta

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 18:41

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer


Please let me correct this post.

Thanks guys. I sincerely hope you are right where Dr T is concerned as nothing would make me happier than to see the two BMWs battling it out at the front of the field.

Truth is, I was asking for opinions with regards MT, not expressing one, as I confess to know very little about him. It just came out badly i´m afraid.
Nice to know he has a vote of confidence on here :up:


Mario is a very good team manager, though also a ruthless one. (mind you, all the best ones are).

He also strikes an astounding resemblance to Mr potato head.

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#42 Dolph

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 18:46

Originally posted by Josta
[B]

Mario is a very good team manager, though also a ruthless one. (mind you, all the best ones are).

What makes you say he's ruthless. There just was a post that he refused to fire an incompetent guy.

#43 barteks

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 18:48

Originally posted by Dolph
Are they still gonna be call Sauber in 2008 or just BMW?

2008 season will be the last with name "BMW Sauber".

#44 Josta

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 18:50

Originally posted by Dolph


What makes you say he's ruthless. There just was a post that he refused to fire an incompetent guy.


Who is the "incompetent guy"?

#45 barteks

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 18:51

Originally posted by Josta
Who is the "incompetent guy"?

Mehdi Ahmadi?

#46 Josta

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 19:06

Originally posted by barteks

Mehdi Ahmadi?


Ahhh, the old "Kubica blaming his race engineer for his poor performance" thing. My wife met up with Andy Borme's wife several times last year, (both being expats in Switzerland), and I know only too well how easy it is for a driver to scapegoat their race engineer. Ultimately, Kubica got blown away by Nick and blamed it on his race engineer.

BTW, the only single person who claimed Mehdi was incompetent was the guy who underperformed. Go figure.

#47 barteks

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 19:12

So why do you think Ahmadi has been fired? Scapegoat? Come on :p

#48 Josta

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 19:18

Originally posted by barteks
So why do you think Ahmadi has been fired? Scapegoat? Come on :p


To the best of my knowledge, Ahmadi is still working for BMW Sauber. He just isn't working with Kubica. Something I can tell you for a fact, is that Kubica is not an easy guy to work with. I can also say that Kubica was the only person within the team who had a problem with him. Also, the only reports of him being "fired due to being incompetent" came from Polish newspapers.

Work that out for yourself.

#49 barteks

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 19:33

Kubica complained because Ahmadi's job affected Kubica's performance (in a negative way). There are a couple of examples of his engineer incompetence. Starting from Australia, when he was released from the pits too late for a flying lap in Q3, the same was in the next race, to a weird talk with Kubica during free training in Japan(?) when Robert was upset that Mehdi wanted to check the same setup for the third time. Unexperienced driver with rookie engineer wasn't a good combination. Last year Kubica was happy working with Dallara but this year he was swapped to Nick.

#50 kNt

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 19:52

Originally posted by Josta


There is no arguably about it. It ranks 166 on the top 500 supercomputers in the world. No other F1 team is higher.

No one is force to be listed on top500.org, afaik we know nothing about the computers of most teams.

About Theissen: apparently he's not that involved in every aspect but he deflects most of the attention. That's a good thing I think, so the team can work quiet.