43 replies to this topic

[LeD]

Interesting article that describes a potential financial mechanism whereby Hamilton incorporates himself and floats on the stock market. The theory is that by doing this he effectively gets his future lifetimes earnings up front. If heaven forbid he were injured and had to abandon his career, he would have minimised the financial impact.

Before this descends inescapably into a Hamilton-bashing (or anyone-else-bashing) thread, please note that several other prominent sports people are being advised to adopt similar strategies. I seem to recall Justin Wilson selling shares in himself when he was in F1. I wonder what kind of return buyers at that time have since received?

Personally, I think it would be great to see a driver making more money than Bernie - if such a thing is possible.....

The Independent

[JSF]

Justin did that because it was his only chance of making it into F1, i doubt he would have chosen that path had he not needed to raise money.

[LeD]

Well I am all for a punt on Hamilton shares. Market sentiment alone will drive the price up, even before he gets behind the wheel of a car.

[JSF]

He has already been behind the wheel of a car and proven his ability.

[Risil]

If he does badly, will he be liquidised? That's enough to get Arrow and the gang on board, surely?

[Asperon]

Hamilton seems very focused on money. First hes abandoned his country to save a few tax bucks, and now this. Regardless of where he lives and what he does, hes going to make hundreds of millions over his career so this is all just an exercise in greed simply for the sake of having a little more money to count. Hes certainly a great fit with Mclaren and Dennis.

[hedges]

Originally posted by Asperon
Hamilton seems very focused on money. First hes abandoned his country to save a few tax bucks, and now this. Regardless of where he lives and what he does, hes going to make hundreds of millions over his career so this is all just an exercise in greed simply for the sake of having a little more money to count. Hes certainly a great fit with Mclaren and Dennis.

Well, it's more than a few bucks and he probably gets a less stressfull life out of it as well. I'm not a Hamilton fan but it is hardly greed to say yes to someone wanting to give you money, the guy isn't taking it away from anyone else and he isn't hurting anyone.

[Asperon]

Originally posted by hedges


Well, it's more than a few bucks and he probably gets a less stressfull life out of it as well. I'm not a Hamilton fan but it is hardly greed to say yes to someone wanting to give you money, the guy isn't taking it away from anyone else and he isn't hurting anyone.

When you are getting more money than you will be ever spend in your life time and you want more, then you are being greedy. Unless of course hes planning on being a very charitable person. I doubt it. You are right though as hes not hurting anyone, hes just being greedy.

[giacomo]

Originally posted by LeD
Interesting article that describes a potential financial mechanism whereby Hamilton incorporates himself and floats on the stock market. The theory is that by doing this he effectively gets his future lifetimes earnings up front. If heaven forbid he were injured and had to abandon his career, he would have minimised the financial impact.

That's the chance in a lifetime for Alonso: Take over the majority of Hamiltons shares and close him down.

[kar]

Speaking purely as an investment, it's a pretty precarious one to make. Unlike Tiger, Hamilton participates in a sport where he is but a tiny percentage of the equation. If Lewis never gets another car that is capable as the McLaren he had this year there's no way he's going to win a title, and perhaps let alone races.

Formula one isn't terribly sentimental, ask Jenson Button whose star was extinguished in about 4 months from his maiden F1 win, and that's despite performing it has to be said, near to the top of his game.

Watching Lewis on Parkinson last night also presented another problem for Lewis Inc...Lewis has absolutely no charisma, no gravitas. My girlfriend was remarking, he's a bit boring isn't he...and he was basically a non-entity sitting next to Cameron and Bremner, not exactly luminary characters themselves...

Schumacher in a room dominated it, he was the centre of attention, right from the moment he entered the sport he commanded everyone's focus. Lewis is young, but I just don't think he has the personality to support the brand he wants to build. You can point to Beckham as someone who made a fortune despite being dull as ditchwater. But that's football, and football a players talent will shine regardless.

F1 isn't anywhere near as universal or as popular as football. And no matter how talented you are, if you have a dog of a car you look rubbish. Boring and losing week in week out, through no fault of his own? That's not a product I'd want to invest in.

[kar]

More info on the move from the indy

http://news.independ...icle3149925.ece

Shares in a hero

Can a sportsman list on the stock market? The answer appears to be yes. That's if Lewis Hamilton goes ahead with a proposal to float – and that, as our news story indicates, is only one option on the table.

To the uninitiated, the notion sounds a tad odd. But that is mainly because it is such an innovative idea. Global sporting superstars – of which there are only a handful – have a unique earning power that easily outstrips the salaries paid to the cosseted footballers of the English Premier League. But these sporting icons have short careers. They rely on being in peak physical condition and judge the difference between winning and losing in inches, or fractions of a second. So put yourself in Lewis Hamilton's shoes. Formula One is a dangerous business. There is no guarantee that he won't spin off the track at the first bend of the first Grand Prix next season and incur some injury that ends his ambitions to be the dominant force in the high-octane circus for the next decade.

So by selling off a small percentage of shares in himself – or more accurately – his future earnings, he banks a large sum up front. It makes perfect logic from his point of view. Shareholders in Lewis Hamilton get a good-value investment, but also take on board the risk that Hamilton will maximise his earning potential only by staying healthy. And shareholders also get to share in the fun of the F1 franchise by owning a stake in their hero.

I dunno, I'm happy to admit a bit of bias, but I can't imagine even some of his fans would feel some of his recent moves off circuit are extremely cynical.

I don't blame him for looking after himself though, all's fair. Just hope he dials down the lil lad from Hertfordshire routine and how it's all so dandy competing in F1.

That shtick will be right weary if he goes ahead with even half of the speculated off circuit monetising.

[noikeee]

Originally posted by giacomo
That's the chance in a lifetime for Alonso: Take over the majority of Hamiltons shares and close him down.

[zeppo]

Originally posted by kar

Lewis has absolutely no charisma, no gravitas.
....
Schumacher in a room dominated it, he was the centre of attention, right from the moment he entered the sport he commanded everyone's focus. Lewis is young, but I just don't think he has the personality to support the brand he wants to build.

How can you seriously in one sentence claim Hamilton is charisma free and then make the claim that Schumacher was the opposite. If anything MS was very boring driver except for his taste in clothing. There are/were some quite interesting types in F1; Montoya, DC, Villeneuve but MS was not one of them.

[chrisuofc]

If he sells his future earning potential upfront, doesn't that reduce his incentive to make himself appealing to sponsors? I guess if he's only selling 10%, then the majority of incentive remains. But I could definitely see him saying "$2 million to represent a shoe company? I already got a hundred mil in the bank. Its not worth my time." I don't know what the shareholders who want their 10% cut would think of that.

[Asperon]

Originally posted by zeppo


How can you seriously in one sentence claim Hamilton is charisma free and then make the claim that Schumacher was the opposite. If anything MS was very boring driver except for his taste in clothing. There are/were some quite interesting types in F1; Montoya, DC, Villeneuve but MS was not one of them.

Yeh his description seems totally back to front. Hamilton comes across as decently charismatic or at least out going to me. Schumacher was famous for lacking charisma.

[kar]

Originally posted by Asperon


Yeh his description seems totally back to front. Hamilton comes across as decently charismatic or at least out going to me. Schumacher was famour for lacking charisma.

Really? I admit perceptions are intrinsic someone that is interesting to someone (Schumacher/me) may be boring as hell (Hamilton, me and my missus) but gravitas, charisma goes beyond interviews and what not, it's an ability to dominate the environment around them. I could never imagine a Schumacher or Senna having to moan to the media about being number 2 in order to shake up their management. Their force of will would see to it that was dealt with behind the scenes.

A pair of you talk about Michael being a boring interviewee, how come then any time he spoke, and there were never-ending demands for him to, he was swarmed by media?

Anyway a lot of this is subjective, my opinion is that Lewis lacks that sort of dominant personality. His almost passive aggressive behaviour this season to get one over Alonso seems to support it. He's not someone to demand what he wants, but rather to try and pull a fast one to get it.

We will see in the coming years if he has that 'something special', my opinion is that he does not. It will be when he has a rubbish car that he can maintain interest in himself which will ultimately tell us objectively one way or another.

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by Asperon


Unless of course hes planning on being a very charitable person. I doubt it.

That's because you have an insidious and unpleasant agenda, of course.

[Asperon]

Originally posted by kar

A pair of you talk about Michael being a boring interviewee, how come then any time he spoke, and there were never-ending demands for him to, he was swarmed by media?
.

Probably something to do with him being the best driver of his generation. When you are a superstar you are in demand regardless of your charisma.

[Fatgadget]

Originally posted by giacomo
That's the chance in a lifetime for Alonso: Take over the majority of Hamiltons shares and close him down.

Cunning plan what!

[F1Johnny]

I don't like this focus on money so early in his career. Too early for it and distracts him from the job at hand IMO.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by giacomo
That's the chance in a lifetime for Alonso: Take over the majority of Hamiltons shares and close him down.

Why? Wouldnt the investment pay of better if Hamilton had some success?

[Lazarus II]

Originally posted by Asperon
Hamilton seems very focused on money. First hes abandoned his country to save a few tax bucks, and now this. Regardless of where he lives and what he does, hes going to make hundreds of millions over his career so this is all just an exercise in greed simply for the sake of having a little more money to count. Hes certainly a great fit with Mclaren and Dennis.

"abandoned his country" that makes him even with just about every other F1 driver and many major sports personalities.

"save a few tax bucks" - try multi millions in tax dollars.

Your hate of Hamilton runs so deep that you'll bash the kid for trying to make money.

[LeD]

oh dear oh dear, I should never have started this thread - imagine if the article had been written about any sportsman OTHER than Hamilton? We might have ended up with something more interesting than the same ole same ole bash-fest. Poor show, you lot.

[LukeM]

Originally posted by Buttoneer

That's because you have an insidious and unpleasant agenda, of course.

i think your living in a dream world

[Terry Walker]

Nothing even slightly new about the idea. Goes back decades; authors have been doing it for years and years. Ian Fleming was a company (Glidrose Productions). So was Agatha Christie. So was Isaac Asimov (Foundation). Stirling Moss, too, I think. Many others. Just about anybody who is a high earner incorporates a company, and then gets employed by that company on wages paid out of the company earnings. It's a hell of a lot easier dealing with taxation systems basically designed for (a) wage earners and (b) corporations, but which usually have trouble coping with people with high but often wildly erratic personal incomes and often very complicated personal income streams. And when you're in F1 and have salary, endorsements, bonuses, appearance money, speaking engagements, and heaven only knows what else, it can become impossible to cope without incorporating in some way.

The next step, going public, poses risks but usually the author/driver etc (whoever actually generates the income) retains a majority interest in the Company to ensure he or she isn't sold out from under. You've also got to be careful what you call the company, too, or you finish up with the possibility of one day not owning your own name for business purposes. It happened to a famous yacht designer who was forced to adopt the name Ben Lexcen, a made up name, because his previous yacht company owned the rights to his original name. Ben not only changed his name legally, but registered Lexcen as his trademark which he personally, not his new yacht company, owned. Lewis Hamilton would be bonkers to call his company Lewis Hamilton PLC.

[Ross Stonefeld]

You didn't provide an example where a sportsman sold shares in himself. Justin Wilson clearly did, but that was actual investment to improve the company. Lewis is just to make money.

[Ivan]

Anyone heard of this chap named David Bowie?
He listed himself several years ago...
I fail to see the problem with Lewis doing it.

[Galko877]

Originally posted by zeppo


How can you seriously in one sentence claim Hamilton is charisma free and then make the claim that Schumacher was the opposite. If anything MS was very boring driver except for his taste in clothing. There are/were some quite interesting types in F1; Montoya, DC, Villeneuve but MS was not one of them.

Well, Schumacher and "charisma" is an interesting thing. The British media was trying hard to sell him as somebody very uncharismatic (and apparently they succeeded), but I think when you have digged deeper than what the British media were trying to sell about him, he was an interesting personality. I'm not saying he had the "charisma" of a Senna but I have always found his deep-interviews (eg. his interview at the end of last year in the Süddeutsche Zeitung) interesting and entertaining and his intelligence gripping. Maybe that doesn't come accross so well when he is communicating in English, I don't know.

Also "charisma" is a rather incomprehensible thing. Can anybody really give us a definition on that? So we may all understand different things in charisma. When I went to a GP this year on a neutral track (ie. in a country that doesn't have a driver in F1 now) most of the spectators were still wearing MS caps and stuff. Some of you will say that's because he was the best driver, but that's just partly true. I have sensed people really love him. Based on that saying DC, JV and JPM are charismatic (I don't remember people wearing JV, DC or JPM caps) but MS not seems a bit rich.

As for Hamilton, I admire his skills and talent and I was happy to greet him in F1, because he gave hope to me that I will find a new fave driver, but by the end of the season I have realized I cannot love him, just admire him. Whether that has to do with "charisma" or the lack of it I don't know, but he comes across to me as overly corporate and even fake.

[femi]

If the starting price is reasonable, I may invest and wait for the fools to offer more then sell.

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by LukeM


i think your living in a dream world

That's "you're"

[ex Rhodie racer]

Originally posted by Galko877


Well, Schumacher and "charisma" is an interesting thing. The British media was trying hard to sell him as somebody very uncharismatic (and apparently they succeeded), but I think when you have digged deeper than what the British media were trying to sell about him, he was an interesting personality. I'm not saying he had the "charisma" of a Senna but I have always found his deep-interviews (eg. his interview at the end of last year in the Süddeutsche Zeitung) interesting and entertaining and his intelligence gripping. Maybe that doesn't come accross so well when he is communicating in English, I don't know.

Also "charisma" is a rather incomprehensible thing. Can anybody really give us a definition on that? So we may all understand different things in charisma. When I went to a GP this year on a neutral track (ie. in a country that doesn't have a driver in F1 now) most of the spectators were still wearing MS caps and stuff. Some of you will say that's because he was the best driver, but that's just partly true. I have sensed people really love him. Based on that saying DC, JV and JPM are charismatic (I don't remember people wearing JV, DC or JPM caps) but MS not seems a bit rich.

As for Hamilton, I admire his skills and talent and I was happy to greet him in F1, because he gave hope to me that I will find a new fave driver, but by the end of the season I have realized I cannot love him, just admire him. Whether that has to do with "charisma" or the lack of it I don't know, but he comes across to me as overly corporate and even fake.

Good post. I was just thinking. It would become unbearable if the members of the British press invested in Lewis and then decided to boost their stock. Or maybe they already got wind of the plan at the beginning of this season. Mmmmm, the mind boggles:lol:
Seriously, good luck to the lad. Nothing wrong with being a capitalist last time I checked.

[MichaelPM]

Originally posted by giacomo
That's the chance in a lifetime for Alonso: Take over the majority of Hamiltons shares and close him down.

Leaving Hamilton in McLaren and not able to benifit from Alonso's work will be punishment enough im sure.

On topic. I think its Daddy (biological, not Ron) who is really controlling all this greed stuff and not Hamilton.

[giacomo]

Originally posted by MichaelPM
On topic. I think its Daddy (biological, not Ron) who is really controlling all this greed stuff and not Hamilton.

I think the same. Me thinks that Lewis is more interested into shagging Nicole Scherzinger than selling himself on the stock market.

[pingu666]

hes ok, nothing super special charisma out of the car, in car hes pretty cool. stand comedian and a politian did have more charisma, not a big surprise for me..

[Gemini]

Looks like there is already way more lawyers and accountants than engineers around LH ...

[bond]

Originally posted by Gemini
Looks like there is already way more lawyers and accountants than engineers around LH ...

The season is over...lol

[Cheap Wine Alesi]

Originally posted by giacomo
I think the same. Me thinks that Lewis is more interested into shagging Nicole Scherzinger than selling himself on the stock market.

How many 22 year old guys would be more interested in stock market compared to Nicole Scherzinger???

anyway, I`d gladly buy some stocks, Lucky seems a good investment.

[Chui]

Originally posted by Asperon
Hamilton seems very focused on money. First hes abandoned his country to save a few tax bucks, and now this. Regardless of where he lives and what he does, hes going to make hundreds of millions over his career so this is all just an exercise in greed simply for the sake of having a little more money to count. Hes certainly a great fit with Mclaren and Dennis.

Oh, give it a break already! Unless you're already wealthy you, too, would seek ways to maximize both your earnings and savings... Call it what you will; money is "energy": run out of either and you're "done" in this world.

[pingu666]

actully its the rich who are more focused on getting more money, dispite them not needing it at all, in my experience....

[Mat]

There is no way this will happen. If he floats himself, he then must answer to his shareholders. That just simply isn't going to work.

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by pingu666
actully its the rich who are more focused on getting more money, dispite them not needing it at all, in my experience....

Actually the rich can afford to pay other people to do the worrying for them while they get on with the important job of spending it conspicuously.

[Kooper]

Originally posted by Buttoneer

Actually the rich can afford to pay other people to do the worrying for them while they get on with the important job of spending it conspicuously.

Exactly. Like this guys latest toy.

[Chui]

Originally posted by Kooper


Exactly. Like this guys latest toy.

It would be nice if those clowns would actually ASSIST their own people (and provide competitive loans to those with innovative peaceful ideas) as opposed to throwing money into the hot desert winds. I like Ferraris and Porsche GTs as much as the next red-blooded male, but how much is enough???

I guess they are just bored. I'd like to have a ton of money (who wouldn't?), but I don't envy them...

[black magic]

I have no problem with athletes out to make as much money for themselves and pay as little tax as possible except perhaps the silly sums the super rich now make annually.

I dont care what you say, the corporate world does not get value for for money.

what does dig at me though is when these guys then CHOOSE to drap themselves in their national flags as if they are out there for us the local fan. if you were really out for us local fans you'd have stayed in the country and paid your share of taxes like all us bastards who cant leave for whatever reason. especially dont then pontificate from offshore about your love of the motherland.