71 replies to this topic

[sterling49]

I am really enjoying looking at Peter Darley's "Jim Clark Life At Team Lotus" book, but have just become somewhat confused. I have a picture in my lounge that says it is Jim Clark at Brands Hatch, Bottom Bend, and he is driving Cortina JTW 498C, the confusion starts when I look in the appendix and see who drove which car in which races, and in 1965 Jack Sears was driving this car for the season There is mention of a JTW 408C (misprint?) that Jim was driving at the 1965 ROC at Brands, could this be it? It's not a registration number that I have been aware of. The following years cars were the PHK series and the '64 season were the BTW series. Any ideas? My original photo came from MotoSport.


Sterling

[RS2000]

I have JTW496C, 497C & 498C as the main Team Lotus (Gp2) 1965 race cars (one source is Graham Robson's "Ford in Touring Car Racing"). I have never attempted to match the race cars to races or drivers in the way I am attempting to do for works rally Cortinas. These 3 were A bracket cars. The leaf spring rear end was homologated in June 65.
KPU394C I believe is a leaf spring car used as a Team Lotus test and (once?)race car from mid-65 (effectively, the date of leaf spring homologation) to end 65. This was for sale recently described as "Jim Clark's car". I believe he only drove it in one test.
KPU396C I have as a Team Lotus car, probably leaf spring, probably new build, but using the reg. no. from Colin Chapman's written-off road car.
I would think 408 is a mistake.

It's not altogether straightforward. The supposedly perfect provenance KPU392C Alan Mann Whitmore 65 ETCC-winning reg. no. seems to have first appeared on a green and white car at Mt Ventoux, allegedly A bracket, prior to the leaf spring homologation. If this actually was the same car as the later red/gold KPU392C, it might also raise the question of whether it ran that one event in leaf spring spec before that was officially homologated? If not, it might have been an earlier A bracket car carrying the new reg no for that one event? (the only other Alan Mann 65 car seems to have been KPU384C).

[sterling49]

I will take it then that 408C is a misprint and that although it says that Gentleman Jack was driving during the 1965 season, I just know that JC is driving it in many photos,the seating position, helmet, stance of the car.....I will look out the Graham Robson book, perhaps add it to my Xmas list!!

[RS2000]

I guess it's no surprise that, whilst Allan Mann adopted the leaf spring rear end as soon as it was homologated, Chapman had Team Lotus mostly just testing it for the rest of 65...

[sterling49]

Originally posted by RS2000
I guess it's no surprise that, whilst Allan Mann adopted the leaf spring rear end as soon as it was homologated, Chapman had Team Lotus mostly just testing it for the rest of 65...

In the book, it clearly shows a Cortina with an FVA engine ( a Team Lotus car) I had no idea that they used these? Alan Mann Racing,yes I grant you, I saw Frank Gardner and Richard Attwood race these Mk11s, I think they even had a rack in place of the recirculating ball steering system. I wished that I paid more attention at the time

[RS2000]

Was this a Mk1? In a race? Didn't the FVA first appear in F2 in 66? It couldn't have been used in BSCC or ETCC in 65 as both ran to Gp2. In theory it could have been used in 66 BSCC as that had gone Gp5 but most sources say 67 was first BSCC use (in Mk2).
Team Lotus Mk2s used FVA in 67? Also UVX565E was a Mk2 race car built by Boreham with an FVA and run against the Team Lotus cars in 67. That's said to have gone to Alan Mann for 68 but Frank Gardner didn't like its handling and it was hardly used.

[sterling49]

Caption says Mk 1 Cortina, which is complete news to me, I thought 1600 F2 ran from 1967? Wasn't Gardner's Alan Mann Cortina 11 an FVA? Superb photos in this book, I even forgot that "Hawkeye" and Arundell drove the works cars

[RS2000]

The single seater experts are probably not reading this because it mentions a saloon car but someone will know when the FVA was first used in F2. 1600 F2 would have started in 66, alongside 3L F1. I thought the FVA was a year apart from the DFV as to first race use, which would make its debut in 1600 F2 earlyish (Easter?) 66 (I recall the race being on TV but not any detail).
It would have been logical to test an FVA in a Mk1 Cortina before the first 1967 Mk2s were ready. I cannot see any regulation reason it couldn't have been raced in 66 BSCC, only lack of availability of engines with a large F2 field to be supplied, but I hadn't heard of it either.
Yes all the Mann Mk2s ran with FVA.

[Mike Summers]

What an interesting thread.......can anyone show documentation, photos, press, etc of the earliest MKII with a FVA in it?? I have a early series one (built in late 66) MKII Cortina race car that currently has a "race" crossflow motor. The local vintage race club will not let me run the crossflow motor as they did not appear in Cortinas till 1968. Would that not be a giggle to show up with a FVA.........

Mike Summers
Middle of California

[brooster51]

The first year of the 1.6 liter F2 was 1967. So both the FVA and DFV debuted in the same year. I'm pretty sure that the FVA didn't show up in sedans until the Mk. II. Check the bore that's cited. The twin-cam had a bore of 83.5 mm while the FVA had a slightly larger bore of a bit over 85 mm. From everything I can find, no Cortina's ran with the FVA in 1966. The 1966 F2 was dominated by Jack Brabham in a Brabham powered by a Honda S800 1.0 liter.

Some of us single-seat freaks also like tin-tops. One of my favorite You-Tube's is Jim Clark in a Cortina kifting both inside wheels at, I think, Brands Hatch.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by brooster51
The 1966 F2 was dominated by Jack Brabham in a Brabham powered by a Honda S800 1.0 liter.

Some of us single-seat freaks also like tin-tops. One of my favorite You-Tube's is Jim Clark in a Cortina kifting both inside wheels at, I think, Brands Hatch.

I saw Jack in the Brabham Honda , a great weapon it was too. I was also there at Brands (might have been the same August Bank Holiday meeting?) when JC was driving with such fun and brio, he was not even in for a prize if my memory serves me well, but he did get fastest lap and a great round of applause

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Mike Summers
What an interesting thread.......can anyone show documentation, photos, press, etc of the earliest MKII with a FVA in it?? I have a early series one (built in late 66) MKII Cortina race car that currently has a "race" crossflow motor. The local vintage race club will not let me run the crossflow motor as they did not appear in Cortinas till 1968. Would that not be a giggle to show up with a FVA.........

Mike Summers
Middle of California

That would be fun!! A tad more powerful also.......Your car should have either the 1300 Pre X-Flow motor or the 1500 carried over from the Mk1, or the throaty Lotus T/C engine. The 1300 being a "new" engine for the Mk11 range. IIRC, they usually had a very tappety top end

[Ted Walker]

I remember Mike Costin appearing at a minor club meeting (AMOC) i think late 66 with his Brabham BT10 fitted with the first FVA.No mark 1 Lotus Cortina was ever raced in period with an FVA

[hipperson]

No argument on this car and driver



Photograph by Nick Loudon....International Trophy meeting Silverstone. Jack the winner

[Patrick Fletcher]

On the otherside of the globe Arthur Moffatt arrived at the 1966? Wigram meeting with his one year old Lotus Cortina Mk1 powered by 1964cc Climax FPF from his Lotus 15. It was not as quick as the new twin-cam Fahey / Simpson Anglias. Searching for a photo .........

[David Shaw]

Do you mean Allan Moffat in the ex-US Team Lotus car? I believe it was running a BRM developed TC.

[RS2000]

Originally posted by brooster51
The first year of the 1.6 liter F2 was 1967 The 1966 F2 was dominated by Jack Brabham in a Brabham powered by a Honda S800 1.0 liter.

Sometimes it's difficult to keep up! The fact that I stood at Druids in October 66 and watched Rindt on a rare F2 Brabham Honda-beating occasion should have been a clue......

and this, the same day (and last BSCC race of 66?) didn't sound like an FVA :

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Patrick Fletcher
On the otherside of the globe Arthur Moffatt arrived at the 1966? Wigram meeting with his one year old Lotus Cortina Mk1 powered by 1964cc Climax FPF from his Lotus 15. It was not as quick as the new twin-cam Fahey / Simpson Anglias. Searching for a photo .........

1965
the engine was a 2-litre Climax, but not from the Lotus 15
More significantly, the Cortina-Climax was not as fast as the twin-cam Lotus-Cortinas

[RS2000]

Originally posted by Mike Summers
can anyone show documentation, photos, press, etc of the earliest MKII with a FVA in it?The local vintage race club will not let me run the crossflow motor as they did not appear in Cortinas till 1968. Would that not be a giggle to show up with a FVA.........
Mike Summers
Middle of California

Shouldn't be difficult for a 67 car. Presumably you could use an ordinary L block Twink in your car too?
I'm sure there is plenty on record of Team Lotus FVA-engined Mk2s in the 67 BSCC. I don't have anything on them but Graham Robson's book "Boreham" goes into some detail on the one Boreham-built race Mk2 with an FVA that ran in 67.
The use of the FVA in Gp5 BSCC for 67 also seems to neatly co-incide with the end of the Ford relationship with BRM at the end of 66. Works rally TCs as well as Team Lotus TCs had been BRM-built for some time until then. I guess that change was not entirely unrelated to F1. Lotus would be no longer partially/wholly dependent on BRM once the DFV arrived.

[Dave Wright]

Originally posted by Ted Walker
No mark 1 Lotus Cortina was ever raced in period with an FVA

I think the Tony Dean Mk1s were fitted with an FVA for the 1968 BSCC.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Dave Wright


I think the Tony Dean Mk1s were fitted with an FVA for the 1968 BSCC.

Were they? I saw Tony and Brian Robinson race them regularly, if they were FVAs I had no idea

[a1topdog]

Jim Clark did drive JTW 498C , but so did other works drivers , namely Jack Sears and John Whitmore.

This car is up for auction on the 3/12 at Bonhams in London , see here:-

http://www.bonhams.c...9&iSaleNo=15348

I am not aware of a works car with the 408 number , I would think it was a misprint. If you want a definite answer then a good place to start is on the Lotus Cortina Register forum , here:

http://lotuscortina....r.com/index.php

[sterling49]

Originally posted by a1topdog
Jim Clark did drive JTW 498C , but so did other works drivers , namely Jack Sears and John Whitmore.

This car is up for auction on the 3/12 at Bonhams in London , see here:-

http://www.bonhams.c...9&iSaleNo=15348

I am not aware of a works car with the 408 number , I would think it was a misprint. If you want a definite answer then a good place to start is on the Lotus Cortina Register forum , here:

http://lotuscortina....r.com/index.php

That's the picture I have in my lounge, a lovely car, I wonder how much it will achieve???

[a1topdog]

£123K + comm making it £136K

[sterling49]

Originally posted by a1topdog
£123K + comm making it £136K

I will stick to the Focus at the moment, until the wife increases my pocket money

[Alan Cox]

Any news of what this one sold for? Coys haven't updated their website yet with the sale results.

http://www.coys.co.u...ion=71&id=53263

[a1topdog]

It didn't sell.

I spoke to the auction house and the guy said it was bid up to £90K but didn't make reserve.
When I questioned this as the estimate was £45K - £60K he then said he wasn't 100% on the final bid
but was sure it didn't sell.

[Alan Cox]

Originally posted by a1topdog
I spoke to the auction house and the guy said it was bid up to £90K but didn't make reserve.
When I questioned this as the estimate was £45K - £60K he then said he wasn't 100% on the final bid
but was sure it didn't sell.

It sounds as though the vendor had been influenced by what he saw JTW 498C make the previous day.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by a1topdog
It didn't sell.

I spoke to the auction house and the guy said it was bid up to £90K but didn't make reserve.
When I questioned this as the estimate was £45K - £60K he then said he wasn't 100% on the final bid
but was sure it didn't sell.

That was not Jim Clark's ex R.A.C. car, as nice as it looks, perhaps that has something to do with not making the reserve price, from memory Jim's car was NVW 241C, not as shown in red, it was the classic Team Lotus colours.


Sterling

[Alan Cox]

It seems odd that reference is made to Jim Clark and the RAC Rally in the title, but then nothing further is said in the description about these claims. The high point of its career would appear to be when it attended Roger Clark's wedding! It states that it was delivered painted red, and I don't recall ever seeing JC driving a red version.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Alan Cox
It seems odd that reference is made to Jim Clark and the RAC Rally in the title, but then nothing further is said in the description about these claims. The high point of its career would appear to be when it attended Roger Clark's wedding! It states that it was delivered painted red, and I don't recall ever seeing JC driving a red version.

I agree totally Alan, he never did, only ever the classic colours! Perhaps the vendor is not aware of this

[RS2000]

KPU386C (a red car) was driven by Jim Clark, under the close instruction of Roger Clark, in testing at Bagshot prior to the 1966 RAC. It was this extended "practice", I'm sure, that made JC so fast in comparison to other racing drivers trying rallying. I have not found any record so far of 386C being used on a rally (and certainly not the 66 RAC) (I am attempting to compile a list of which events each works rally Cortina appeared on). Many of the KPU rally cars were allegedly regularly re-shelled, retaining the same reg no.

The 66 RAC works cars were the 3 new white and green cars (the first non-red cars since 1963, except for Safari cars) built for the 66 Coupe des Alpes - Soderstrom's RAC winning NVW239C (now in a private collection), Elford's KPU380C (re-using an old red car's registration) and R.Clark's NVW242C. J.Clark's NVW241C was the 4th entry (the origin of 241 is unclear - Ford oracle Graham Robson merely recording that a 4th car was "found" for JC). 241 was not an ex-66 Monte Gp1 car like 240, 243 and the original red 242, the "other" NVWs. (242 was carried first on Elford's red Monte car and was not the same car as R.Clark's new white car for the Alpine!).

241 is said to have been scrapped at Boreham after the 66 RAC (it was in quite a mess...). A photo exists of it back there with the bonnet open and an Esso sticker on the front bulkhead, presumably put there by JC, under his F1 fuel contract. The Ford rally team was with Castrol then...and no advertising was allowed on cars...

[sterling49]

Originally posted by RS2000
I(one source is Graham Robson's "Ford in Touring Car Racing").

Book ordered and should be a great read over Xmas

[Ted Walker]

The Brian Robinson pair of MK2s were fitted with FVAs as they were the ex works cars.By "in period" I mean pre MK2 period.

[Peter Darley]

NVW 241C had a black bonnet and black front wing tops. See P 251 of my book

Peter Darley
Jim Clark - Life at Team Lotus

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by RS2000
KPU386C (a red car) was driven by Jim Clark, under the close instruction of Roger Clark, in testing at Bagshot prior to the 1966 RAC. It was this extended "practice", I'm sure, that made JC so fast in comparison to other racing drivers trying rallying. I have not found any record so far of 386C being used on a rally (and certainly not the 66 RAC) (I am attempting to compile a list of which events each works rally Cortina appeared on). Many of the KPU rally cars were allegedly regularly re-shelled, retaining the same reg no.

The 66 RAC works cars were the 3 new white and green cars (the first non-red cars since 1963, except for Safari cars) built for the 66 Coupe des Alpes - Soderstrom's RAC winning NVW239C (now in a private collection), Elford's KPU380C (re-using an old red car's registration) and R.Clark's NVW242C. J.Clark's NVW241C was the 4th entry (the origin of 241 is unclear - Ford oracle Graham Robson merely recording that a 4th car was "found" for JC). 241 was not an ex-66 Monte Gp1 car like 240, 243 and the original red 242, the "other" NVWs. (242 was carried first on Elford's red Monte car and was not the same car as R.Clark's new white car for the Alpine!).

241 is said to have been scrapped at Boreham after the 66 RAC (it was in quite a mess...). A photo exists of it back there with the bonnet open and an Esso sticker on the front bulkhead, presumably put there by JC, under his F1 fuel contract. The Ford rally team was with Castrol then...and no advertising was allowed on cars...

Do you have any info on KPU 396C? This would have been a Team Lotus car. I have come across a photo of it at what looks like Old Hall corner at Oulton Park with Clark in his customary sideways stance but no details of the event or year.

There is also a photo in Graham Gauld's book, reportedly taken at Bagshot, showing Clark and Brian Melia, his co-driver, standing alongside KPU 395C, which is another red car.

Michael

[RS2000]

All I have on 396C is at the start of this thread. Full test/race records exist and were quoted when it was for sale (inevitably as "Jim Clark's car") on Ebay this year but the link had gone when I tried to copy it. It seems to have been primarily a 65 test car but did race later that year. Your photo could only have been 65. It may have been a leaf spring car tested and eventually raced in 65 when the main Team Lotus cars were A bracket. The reg no is said to have first apeared on Colin Chapman's road car, which he wrote off, and was then used on the above car (which would fit with its second life starting as a new car/shell at a point in 65 when standard production had become all leaf spring?).

395C was Vic Elford's 65 rally car (or cars if it was re-shelled, as it seems to have appeared on a lot of rallies in 65). Is it definitely 395 pictured at Bagshot in late 66 testing? (any sign of the prominent roof light or fitting? - used in 65 but banned under the new 66 Appendix J).
386 is I'm sure the one pictured with Jim Clark and Roger Clark at Bagshot for RAC testing but it would have been reasonable that more than one car was present.

[RS2000]

Originally posted by Peter Darley
NVW 241C had a black bonnet and black front wing tops. See P 251 of my book
Peter Darley
Jim Clark - Life at Team Lotus

Yes, this was adopted on the otherwise white/green stripe new cars built for the 66 Coupe des Alpes and then re-used on the 66 RAC. Until CdeA, all 66 works rally Cortinas in Europe were red. The black was previously used on Safari cars but this use set a trend for European rally cars that lasted well into the Escort era. They also had a strip along the lower body side with "FORD" incorporated in it and were the first Ford rally cars to use Minilite wheels.
241 may have been a spare built alongside the other 3 before 66 CdeA, as it had all these features. It clearly was a new white car then or later and was never red, as the post-RAC photo of its damage shows. It was an additional entry for the 66 RAC beyond the 3 cars originaly intended. It could have been newly-built at the last minute but indications are it was already around. Someone knows!

[sterling49]

Originally posted by RS2000


They also had a strip along the lower body side with "FORD" incorporated in it and were the first Ford rally cars to use Minilite wheels.

Small point, but the stripes I think were advertised as "Sidewinders" in the pages of the usual car mags.....unless my memory is waaaay off line

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by RS2000
All I have on 396C is at the start of this thread. Full test/race records exist and were quoted when it was for sale (inevitably as "Jim Clark's car") on Ebay this year but the link had gone when I tried to copy it. It seems to have been primarily a 65 test car but did race later that year. Your photo could only have been 65. It may have been a leaf spring car tested and eventually raced in 65 when the main Team Lotus cars were A bracket. The reg no is said to have first apeared on Colin Chapman's road car, which he wrote off, and was then used on the above car (which would fit with its second life starting as a new car/shell at a point in 65 when standard production had become all leaf spring?).

395C was Vic Elford's 65 rally car (or cars if it was re-shelled, as it seems to have appeared on a lot of rallies in 65). Is it definitely 395 pictured at Bagshot in late 66 testing? (any sign of the prominent roof light or fitting? - used in 65 but banned under the new 66 Appendix J).
386 is I'm sure the one pictured with Jim Clark and Roger Clark at Bagshot for RAC testing but it would have been reasonable that more than one car was present.

Well, the captions don't say exactly when it was, only that prior to doing the 66 RAC Rally, Clark did some testing with Roger Clark at Bagshot. The photo shows KPU 395C from the rear. The boot catches are gone, instead it is held together by a bungee from the hole where the lock would have been! There appear to be twin fuel fillers forward of the boot but I don't see a prominent roof light or fitting...

Michael

[RS2000]

There's a lot of photos around of 395 in Vic Elford's hands in 65 (all someone else's copyright I'm sure).
I see Coy's preview of the 386 sale had a poor quality scan of a photo from Autosport 18 November 66 showing J.Clark testing at Bagshot (alone in the car in that photo but I've seen one of him with Roger Albert in it).

[RS2000]

Originally posted by sterling49
Small point, but the stripes I think were advertised as "Sidewinders" in the pages of the usual car mags.....unless my memory is waaaay off line

Yes they looked awfully "boy racer-ish"!

[sterling49]

Originally posted by RS2000


Yes they looked awfully "boy racer-ish"!

Were they not on the Works GT40s also, Essex Wire etc??

[RS2000]

Yes I guess it was corporate livery for the time.

I see the spurious claim that KPU386C was Clark's RAC car is repeated in Motorsport magazine in an auction review!

[Graham Gauld]

Just so there is no doubt in anyones mind this is the Lotus Cortina Jim Clark used on the RAC rally with Brian Melia as his co-driver.

[RS2000]

See also the photo recently posted on the "rally photos" thread (and perhaps, GG, you might have some idea of the origin of that one - if it is copyright I will of course remove it immediately, as already indicated).

I think the Coys claim cannot be dismissed as an innocent error. I think it goes well beyond that, into "not showing due dilligence" or whatever could apply. It's not exactly an obscure fact that JC drove a different car on the event.
I see both Motorsport and Classic Ford magazines have managed to refer to it being JC's "first" RAC Raly. True - but more relevantly (and sadly) it was his "only" RAC. I guess his "UK tax days" had been used up by the time of the cancelled 67 RAC and a (reluctant?) NGH was entered by Ford.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
Just so there is no doubt in anyones mind this is the Lotus Cortina Jim Clark used on the RAC rally with Brian Melia as his co-driver.

That is a great looking car, I see that Jim had already been "off" and the front wing is bent, it got a whole lot worse later on, but he was posting great times

[sterling49]

Originally posted by RS2000
Yes I guess it was corporate livery for the time.

I see the spurious claim that KPU386C was Clark's RAC car is repeated in Motorsport magazine in an auction review!

Enthusiasts will know the car that Jim drove, sadly though, someone could well come a cropper buying in good faith. "Caveat Emptor" applies!

[RS2000]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver Do you have any info on KPU 396C? This would have been a Team Lotus car. I have come across a photo of it at what looks like Old Hall corner at Oulton Park with Clark in his customary sideways stance but no details of the event or year.
Michael

Further to above, quite by chance I came across the County Library copy of Robson's "Ford in Touring Car Racing" in a small branch library the other day. The Clark photo you mention is almost certainly the one there, captioned as a leaf spring car at Oulton 1965 (when it was a Gp2 car and the main Gp2 team cars were A bracket).
There is another photo of Arundel leading off the line at Crystal Palace in 1966 in a Gp5 car carrying the KPU396C reg no - so that car was either converted to Gp5 for 66 alongside the new "PHK" cars or the reg no re-used on a new 66 Gp5 car.
I am never entirely confident of some of Robson's (for which read Ford archive?) captions. There is also a paddock colour photo at Oulton in 65 described as "the 3 team cars" but only one is identifiable as a (Sears?) race car and one is clearly a standard road car, KPU393C (the daily transport of...Whitmore? Sears? Chapman? - I thought Clark had an Elan, except when using the irs/rear discs development Cortina 550VAR).

(KPU393C is carried on an Alan Mann colours historic race car today but is not the true reg no of the car).

[sterling49]

In the January edition of "Classic Ford", there are some great photos of KPU 393C (albeit on Minilites) being driven pretty sideways by messrs Wills/Twyman at Spa, it even has the white stripes on the front valance panel and looks stunning

A good article on what happened to all of the cars (works Escorts) driven by Hannu Mikkola from AHK 901F (T/C) to H1 FEV (RS1600), a lot were scrapped or went overseas.