18 replies to this topic

[rbm]

Somewhere in my info I have the wheel base of the Cooper 500's standard chassis as 7'1", but don't seem to be able to find a wheel base for the long chassis?

[Patrick Fletcher]

Cooper MkIV 85in
Ferrari Dino 246 85in
Lancia D50 90in
Maserati 250F 90in
Cooper T51 91in

Got to be somewhere in between that lot - sure that someone will have all the details on long Coopers.

[David McKinney]

According to Cooper Cars by Doug Nye, the long-chassis MkIV was an inch longer than the normal version

[Peter Morley]

I just happen to have a 1950 Cooper Racing and Sports Cars brochure in front of me.

It gives the following dimensions:

"500"
Wheelbase 7' 1"
Front Track 4' 1"
Rear Track 3' 11"
Weight 520 lbs

"1100"
Wheelbase 7' 2"
Front Track 4' 1"
Rear Track 3' 10"
Weight 600 lbs

"Sports 1½ litre"
Wheelbase 7' 2"
Front Track 4' 1"
Rear Track 4' ½"
Weight 9 cwt

The 1949 brochure gives the same dimensions.

While I'm at it I've also got the Mark 1 Cooper Bristol brochure, which would be late 1951/early 1952:

Wheelbase 7' 6"
Track (front & rear) 4' 2"
Weight 9 cwt 3 qr. 12 lbs

[rbm]

Thanks David and Peter, I guess it would be the same for the later cars as well.

[David McKinney]

I'm not sure how long Coopers offered the option. There were certainly "long"-chassis MkVs, but I don't know if they went beyond that

[rbm]

up to mk9's were offered as short and long.

Richard.

[onelung]

I won't suggest an actress/Bishop joke about the extra inch (in wheelbase) making all the difference, but can we have some information about this car please? I think it was fitted with an 1100 JAP motor.

[IMG]http://img136.images...ooperae0.th.jpg[/IMG]

[David M. Kane]

OneLung are those both gas tanks? Or is one oil?

[David McKinney]

They're probably both for fuel, presumably for long-distance record-breaking

[onelung]

I think this dates from 1957 but no guarantee of that. My guess on the tanks is 2 x fuel and 1 x oil - the latter at the rear, behind the left shoulder of a very happy looking John Cooper.

[D-Type]

Going by the descriptions in Doug Nye's Cooper Cars I think this is the 1951 record car that was later sold to John Fox in the USA who ran it at Bonneville. That seems to be the only Cooper record breaker with a horizontal steering wheel.

[onelung]

Thanks, D-Type; um - with fuel tanks as big as that feeding a "mere" 1100 JAP, were Coopers going for seriously long distance record attempts? Like, 24 hours or more at a stretch? (in which case where are the lights,etc etc). Does anyone know what was in fact achieved by this car?

[GIGLEUX]

Originally posted by onelung
Thanks, D-Type; um - with fuel tanks as big as that feeding a "mere" 1100 JAP, were Coopers going for seriously long distance record attempts? Like, 24 hours or more at a stretch? (in which case where are the lights,etc etc). Does anyone know what was in fact achieved by this car?

Have a look here:

http://www.ugofadini...ooperstory.html

[HiRich]

I'm almost certain that it is the 1951 Mk V car, as D-Type says.
In the link GIGLEUX provides, I'm pretty sure this is the "naked" shot to match the one halfway down the page. titled "At Montlhéry, October 1952" (although I think that's meant to be 1951). JC seems to be wearing the same outfit, and the exhasut pipes of the JAP Twin match other "clothed" shots.

[onelung]

From http://www.ugofadini...ooperstory.html

"...in 1953 at the Avus, where the car was involved in a multiple accident at the beginning of the race, John Cooper had to push-restart it himself and still managed to win the race"

It would appear that JC achieved a most athletic feat in being able to single handedly push start and scramble back into what appears to be a fairly small cockpit entry, no? If only that had been captured on film!
I'm still intrigued by the apparently exceedingly large fuel tank size(s) for a car that seems not to have travelled more than 200 miles on any of its record runs. Allow for margins, yes - but those tanks would maybe do duty for six hour runs...?

[rbm]

Originally posted by onelung
... um - with fuel tanks as big as that feeding a "mere" 1100 JAP, were Coopers going for seriously long distance record attempts? ...

the "mere" 500cc JAP in my MK2 Cooper burns a gallon of Methanol in about 10 miles.

[onelung]

OK - so how about an approximation of the tank capacities/volumes estimated from the posted image, and then perhaps someone might go on to suggest the "range" (whatever that word suggests...) of the 1100 record car? And (as an addendum), can we be absolutely certain it was running on a Methanol brew, like your "mere" 500?

[HiRich]

I think it's pretty certain that, at least in 500 form, they would have used methanol. In fact this was the time of nitro dope, so it may have run on that. The power loss from using petrol would have been too much I suspect. I'm not good enough to estimate the tank volume, but perhaps they would use just the one tank in 500 runs. It is also possible that this picture is from the aborted 1952 runs, where perhaps they may have planned longer runs (perhaps with the larger engines only - 200 miles is already asking a lot of a JAP 500 in one run).

For anyone who's push-started for the 500s, yes it was a helluva feat, even if it does appear to be slightly downhill. There is in fact a glimpse of the accident on a Pathe newsreel report. Unfortunately it cuts away before you see JC's starting technique.

And as to Richard's claim of ten miles from a gallon, I have it on good authority that you've never actually got that far yet