92 replies to this topic

[Yakstarrr]

What model did Barry Collerson drive at Catalina Park in 1961? I believe it was an ex-Sommer car. It certainly had the larger carburettors.

At the first meeting at Catalina Park (1961) dad drove the Lago Talbot his last race in the Lago Feb 61

[TerryS]

I really like this very understated ad in the Classifieds of the latest VHRR Newsletter:

 

"Lago Talbot for sale

Vern Schuppan 0407 973 795"

 

That is all it says

[Steve L]

Wonder if the asking price is as understated ☺ ?!

[Tom Glowacki]

Wonder if the asking price is as understated ☺ ?!

He just wants to make sure you are sitting down first. . .

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Yakstarrr
At the first meeting at Catalina Park (1961) dad drove the Lago Talbot his last race in the Lago Feb 61.

And John Ellacott captured them on film twice that day:



Here amongst cars which were 'tiddlers' alongside the Lago. The Nota Major of Barrie Garner leads from Davidson's DPR Triumph, Barry and Thorne in the Citroen Special. Didn't the fences at Craven A look new that day?



Of course, John also supplied this pic of the Lago on the descent from Craven A which adorns Barry's book.

Edited by Ray Bell, 04 February 2020 - 14:24.

[Yakstarrr]

I wanted to post a few more pics of Lago but can’t rember how - what’s the name of the app or whatever for pics pls? Also Ray Bell I just found these two pics with a third pic of the lago at Bathurst now I can’t find it - any ideas pls?

[Tim Murray]

Rebecca, you used Postimage when you posted photos here previously.

[Yakstarrr]

Rebecca, you used Postimage when you posted photos here previously.

Thankyou - trying to remember how

[Yakstarrr]

[Yakstarrr]

Was so excited I’d posted a pic I forgot to caption it, Barry Collerson in Lago Talbot Bathurst easter 1960 the eases

[Yakstarrr]

Working on TALBOT-LAGO's history I wasn't yet successful in finding complete chassis and race logs from - is this Barry Collerson last lago you refer to (I have the chassis number somewhere, it’s one chevron won Australia Grand Prix in & now with Bernie Ecclestone’s collection-

[Yakstarrr]

Maybe you can tell me? If it was an ex-Sommer car, it was the T26C with chassis nr. 110009 built in 1948. As I know , this was the only Talbot-Lago he owned.
I’ll double check the chassis number of Barry’s Lago; I don’t THINK a somber owned or raced it; but as long as I can find this thread tomorrow I’ll get back with the chassis number (or message me asking so I can find u

[Yakstarrr]

Can I delete all these incomplete replies I’ve acciden posted pls

[Allan Lupton]

Can I delete all these incomplete replies I’ve acciden posted pls

Yes at the bottom right of your posts there is a "delete" button which I hope means what it says!

[Lola5000]

Maybe you can tell me? If it was an ex-Sommer car, it was the T26C with chassis nr. 110009 built in 1948. As I know , this was the only Talbot-Lago he owned.
I’ll double check the chassis number of Barry’s Lago; I don’t THINK a somber owned or raced it; but as long as I can find this thread tomorrow I’ll get back with the chassis number (or message me asking so I can find u

110007  French Grand Prix winner 1949 .

[Henk Vasmel]

Finally took some time to check this in Abeillon's Talbot book. I was half expecting that it would not give the information I wanted, but I was wrong. It is pretty clear actually. Collerson's car is listed in this book as 100007. Not Ex-Sommer but Ex-Chiron/Paul Vallée (and others of course). From Owen Bailey it went to Barry Collerson in late '58 and from there to Arnold Glass in March 1962. There's about 10 lines of French text about the car in Collerson's custody, focussing on an engine rebuild and an aviation fuel pump.

Eight race meetings are listed. 1959: Orange, Foley's Hill Climb and Bathurst. 1960: Orange, Day Sprint and Australian GP. 1961: Warwick Farm and Catalina Park.

110009 (Ex-Sommer) has also been mentionned, but that one was in posession of Fritz Schlumpf in the period in question, and even after that.

 

I hope this clears things up a bit.

 

Edit: added a missing f in Schlump(f).....

Edited by Henk Vasmel, 05 March 2020 - 19:34.

[Lola5000]

Finally took some time to check this in Abeillon's Talbot book. I was half expecting that it would not give the information I wanted, but I was wrong. It is pretty clear actually. Collerson's car is listed in this book as 100007. Not Ex-Sommer but Ex-Chiron/Paul Vallée (and others of course). From Owen Bailey it went to Barry Collerson in late '58 and from there to Arnold Glass in March 1962. There's about 10 lines of French text about the car in Collerson's custody, focussing on an engine rebuild and an aviation fuel pump.

Eight race meetings are listed. 1959: Orange, Foley's Hill Climb and Bathurst. 1960: Orange, Day Sprint and Australian GP. 1961: Warwick Farm and Catalina Park.

110009 (Ex-Sommer) has also been mentionned, but that one was in posession of Fritz Schlumpf in the period in question, and even after that.

 

I hope this clears things up a bit.

 

Edit: added a missing f in Schlump(f).....

My father Owen Bailey must be the only previous owner alive who raced it pre historics .

[Yakstarrr]

Hi Ray!

Do you mean Catalina Park in Arizona, in Australia, on the Canaries or elsewhere? I didn't know, that there is a raceway named by this. And also I don't know the driver named Barry Collerson.

Maybe you can tell me? If it was an ex-Sommer car, it was the T26C with chassis nr. 110009 built in 1948. As I know , this was the only Talbot-Lago he owned.

But maybe anyone else could do it better. Thats all I know in this matter.

E.T.

[Yakstarrr]

Dinky Toys were Talbot-Lagos, with and without the hyphen as described above. But the Merit 1:24 plastic kit was a Lago-Talbot[/quote]

Uh-oh; I thought Lagos Talbot & a Talbot Lagos were the same (in real life). So what did Barry Collerson drive? I always think Lagos-Talbot cause it was known as the “large tablet”

[Yakstarrr]

My father Owen Bailey must be the only previous owner alive who raced it pre historics .[/quote])
Sorry, I’m taking a crash course in racing history & cars; what does “raced it pre-hostorics” pls

[Yakstarrr]

Finally took some time to check this in Abeillon's Talbot book

Do you know where I could find this book, or even just the French section, my Aunty can translate for me, thanks so much for your input!

[Henk Vasmel]

Finally took some time to check this in Abeillon's Talbot book

Do you know where I could find this book, or even just the French section, my Aunty can translate for me, thanks so much for your input!

 

I typed Talbot Abeillon in my browser and found a few places where they are still selling the book, as well as some auctions that have finished long time ago. Prices, while looking high, are not too much if you consider what you get for it. I can imagine though, if you are only interested in a few relevant pages, that it might be more than budget allows. Send me a PM if you just want to see some relevant pages, and I might try to copy for you.

[Ray Bell]

Rebecca...

 

Raced it "Pre-historics" means to have raced the car before it became eligible for Historic racing. And with the death of Barry, I'm sure Owen did become the last one alive.

 

Barry's lap time at Warwick Farm on that dreadfully-wet December day in 1960 was 2:04.9 and he filled fourth place in the race. He raced a further four cars at the Farm, an MG A, then the Cooper Minx, then the Jolus Minx, then the Brabham, in which he did a 1:44.4.

[Librules]

I really like this very understated ad in the Classifieds of the latest VHRR Newsletter:

 

"Lago Talbot for sale

Vern Schuppan 0407 973 795"

 

That is all it says

 

Here it is addressed to a larger audience.... (I have no links to the trader or Vern....)    https://www.fiskens....-T26C/13669.htm

[Lola5000]

Re chassis #110002 and # 110007  I've always been interested to know why the earlier chassis had the 12 plug head and 110007 the more famous and younger car had the 6 plug head?

 

Why/thoughts?

[Lola5000]

Finally took some time to check this in Abeillon's Talbot book

Do you know where I could find this book, or even just the French section, my Aunty can translate for me, thanks so much for your input!

I have this book ,what would you like to know?

 

For me the 2 x John Blanden books are worth owning .Re the history of both the "OZ Lagos "

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Lola5000
Re chassis #110002 and # 110007  I've always been interested to know why the earlier chassis had the 12 plug head and 110007 the more famous and younger car had the 6 plug head?
 
Why/thoughts?

Taking a cue from the notes on the cars in the AGP book, Whiteford bought the earlier car as 'it was claimed to be the most powerful version ever developed by the works.'

This would probably indicated that 110002 was a 'works' car while 110007 was a customer car. Whiteford, of course, had 110007 only one year after it was built, helping one to draw that conclusion.

Or it could simply be that 110002 was a 'works' car for much longer.

[Lola5000]

Taking a cue from the notes on the cars in the AGP book, Whiteford bought the earlier car as 'it was claimed to be the most powerful version ever developed by the works.'

This would probably indicated that 110002 was a 'works' car while 110007 was a customer car. Whiteford, of course, had 110007 only one year after it was built, helping one to draw that conclusion.

Or it could simply be that 110002 was a 'works' car for much longer.

Good point Ray,#110002 was racing in European Grand Prixs till 1953,so the question is the 12 plug head was fitted during the cars European campaign as a used raced car .

 

Its a shame Pierre Abeillon's book is not in English as there is a good few pages on the technical side of the cars 

 

#110007 when  she left our shores in 1969?  She was purchased by the late Hon Alan Clarke.

[cooper997]

I dare say the reason Vern's original advertising of the Lago was understated is because that's exactly how the car's previous owner, Ron Townley advertised it at Phillip Island Classic in 2016. Although that was a short note attached to the aeroscreen. The deal was done and Vern had it at the Australian GP the following weekend.

 

Stephen

[robjohn]

    From what I can make out, 110002 didn't get the 12-plug head as a works car. Presumably the head was available for private owners, but I haven't seen when that happened to 002. Probably when Paul Vallée and Guy Mairesse owned it in 1949–51.
    According to Cyril Posthumus in the Profile Publications booklet on the Lago Talbot, the 12-plug head was first used on the works 008 in 1949, driven by Etancelin. In 1950 it was also on works cars 052, driven by Giraud-Cabantous, and 051, driven to 3rd place in the Swiss GP by Louis Rosier.
       It looks as though 002 was never formally a works car. Lists of results show 1948 entrants as Ecurie Mundia-Course (driver "Georges Raph") and Ecurie France (driver Eugene Chaboud). In 1949, 002 was entered by Ecurie France (Vallée & Mairesse) and in 1950-51 by Mairesse himself, though also entered a few times by Giraud-Cabantous.

    Of course I may be wrong...
    Posthumus wrote that the 12-plug head with twin magnetos, higher compression and a change in carbs raised bhp from 240 @ 4700rpm to 280 @ 5000.
    Rob J

 

[Roger Clark]

Pierre Abeillon says that 110002 first had a 12 plug head, and other modifications, at Boreham on 2nd August 1952. Mairesse had sold the car to Jean Blanc at the beginning of that year. Blanc entered it for himself to drive in a minor race at Montlhéry on 27 April but did not appear. At Boreham, the car was driven by Levegh. 

[Yakstarrr]

fallout tactics deathclaw

[Yakstarrr]

fallout tactics deathclaw

[Yakstarrr]

fallout tactics deathclaw

[uechtel]

According to https://www.oldracin...p?RaceID=LI5207 at Boreham the car had been entered by Tony Lago, so a works car nevertheless? And in the note https://www.oldracingcars.com/results/result.php?RaceID=LI5207#note8 it is written, that Vallée sold the car in 1953, so shouldn´t he have still been owner in 1952?

[Roger Clark]

That’s quite right; I did not read Abeillon sufficiently. Blanc bought two cars from Mairesse: 11002 and a two seater 11059. He crashed the two seater in the Mille Miglia and Lago took 11002 in payment for the repairs. 

[Ray Bell]

Just to put the timing in perspective...

 

110002 was still not in Australia by the time the 1954 AGP was held, that was in November, 1954.

[robjohn]

    From uechtel's and Roger's findings, it seems 002 did belatedly become a works car.
    So, did Whiteford buy it from Lago instead of Vallée (or Mairesse or Blanc)?

    Was 002 raced in 1953? Oldracingcars.com and the Victorian Historic Racing Register website have 002 as the car Etancelin drove at Rouen, where he finished third, but Cyril Posthumus said he brought himself and his own car (=110054) out of retirement for his home-town race and another results list I saved some years ago had him there in 110054. I've lost the source but it was probably Racingsportscars or silhouet.com.
    Stats F1 doesn't give a chassis number for Etancelin's car at Rouen but records it as a private entry.
    Rob J

 

[Roger Clark]

Abeillon says that Etancelin drove 110002 in 1953 and that the factory sold it to Doug Whiteford early in 1954. 
 

there is, however, a bit of a mystery. He says that Solex carburettors were fitted at the same time as the 12 plug cylinder head “Adaptation d’une culasse double allumage et des carburateurs Solex 40PHH” and a limited slip differential “Adaptation d’un pont autobloquant”. However, neither were fitted when the car arrived in Australia. He quotes Doug Whiteford: “Elle devrait avoir des carbus Solex 40 PHH;Elle possédait, en fait, des gros Zenith. Elle était équipée d’un pont classique au lieu de l’autobloquant”. Did the factory refit the Zenith carburettor and open differential before selling the car?  
 

Whiteford says it took 12 monthS of letters and the help of the French embassy in Melbourne before he received the correct carburettors and differential. The carburettors were not successful and he fitted SUs.  

[robjohn]

    Thanks, Roger. That clears up a couple of things.
    The carbs do seem mysterious. As 002 was only briefly and marginally a works car, maybe the whole upgrade hadn't been fitted. It wasn't recorded as a DA in ORC.com's 1952 Boreham or 1953 Rouen results, unlike 051, 053 and 054.

    Solex carbs weren't mentioned in any of the 26C specs I've seen, but in its report of the 1950 Swiss GP MotorSport said: "The two new Talbots were being tried by Rosier and Giraud-Cabantous, and these had the dual ignition system...  and three horizontal Type 50 HN downdraught Zenith carburetters in place of the normal downdraught Solex models."
    I think the Solex 40PHH mentioned by Abeillon was a sidedraught. Did the MotorSport correspondent get it wrong? By "normal", perhaps he was referring to the DA-engined cars' first appearance at Silverstone the previous month. Was the Solex 40PHH the usual carb on the DA engines?
    Posthumus seems to have been wrong when he said the 1950 upgrade included Zenith 50HN downdraughts. He wasn't always reliable on details.
    Rob J
 

Edited by robjohn, 17 April 2020 - 00:15.

[Roger Clark]

I’m not sure what the Motor Sport correspondent meant by horizontal downdraught carburettors. You can generally distinguish cars with sidedraught carburettors by the position of the distinctive intake, nicknamed the the bazooka.   On the downdraught cars it is on top of the bonnet, on sidedraught cars it is lower down. A very clear photograph of 110002 at Rouen in 1953 makes it clear that it then had sidedraughts. 
 

Pierre Abeillon says that the 1948/49 cars had Zenith Stromberg EX52 carburettors (downdraught); the 12 plug cars that first appeared in 1950 had horizontal Zenith Stromberg 50HNDDs and in 1952 two chassis, 110002 and 110005 were fitted with Solex 40PHH. Five cars, 110002, 110007, 110011, 110052 and 110054 were fitted with SUs by their private owners. 

[robjohn]

    Yes; "horizontal downdraught" doesn't seem to make sense. Posthumus used the term too in the Profile Publications booklet. Abeillon seems the definitive source.
     Rob J

 

[Roger Clark]

Pierre Abeillon is definitely the definitive source. For anybody who hasn’t got the books I would suggest the French magazine Automobile  Historique number 9 and 10 which contain articles by him on the history of each car. Copies are often available on eBay for about £10.