12 replies to this topic

[Just]

This is an extremely trivial question, but for some reason it's been bugging me for weeks now, that I've finally decided to post here and ask.

Why, in all autosport.com articles, are F1 teams considered plural? For example, one of the current headlines is "Red Bull Racing confirm '08 car launch date", as opposed to "Red Bull Racing confirms '08 car launch date".

I was always taught at uni that company names are singular, and an F1 team should surely be treated like any other company. I've also just asked my sister who's studying journalism, and she tells me the same thing. Or at least that's the case here in Australia, but I had thought that UK English was the same.

[KWSN - DSM]

I think it must be because it is 'a' Company launcing 'a field' of cars.

The teams may be corporations now, but the origin is 'Team DSM' car # 1 and car # 2 thereby plural cars for the single team.

I may be wrong, I have been wrong before.

[bira]

Collective nouns (team, family, government, group, squad, crew, etc.) can be treated as either singular or plural - both are grammatically correct, provided you are consistent (i.e. not say my family are a bunch of nuts and is meeting tonight).

It is our style guide to treat teams as plural, given the fact that a team could never consist of one single person under any condition. At the same time, we treat a company as singular, given the fact that it is a legal entity that could be - and sometimes is - made of a single person.

It was a style choice we made many years ago, and since then have discovered it to not only be logical but also actually quite common - Reuters and the BBC, for example, follow the same guidelines.

[Just]

Thanks for that bira. It seems it's just an Australian vs rest of the world difference - my sister's style guide that is used by journalists in Australia ("Style", published here by News Limited) says that companies are always singular. Good to know though.

[mdecarle]

In Dutch it is also singular, so it's always weird when I see it in plural in English.

On the other hand, pants are singular in Dutch too.

[Rob G]

Originally posted by Just
It seems it's just an Australian vs rest of the world difference

Teams and companies are almost always treated grammatically as singular entities in the United States too, so you're definitely not alone.

[lustigson]

Originally posted by mdecarle
... pants are singular in Dutch too.

That's a funny sentence.;)

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Just
Or at least that's the case here in Australia, but I had thought that UK English was the same.

There's no hard and fast rule. I treat companies as singular, but when it comes to sports teams I think of them as a collective..."we're gonna win the league"...

[lustigson]

Originally posted by ensign14
There's no hard and fast rule. I treat companies as singular, but when it comes to sports teams I think of them as a collective..."we're gonna win the league"...

I feel the same way:
- the Yankees will win this year's championship
- Bayern München were very succesful in the 2000s

Problem is, though, with Formula 1 teams like Toyota, Honda and Ferrari:
- Ferrari (the team) will win this season
- Ferrari (the corporation) was very succesful in the 2000s

I guess that, as long as a magazine, website or whatever maintains consistency, both forms are OK.

[Risil]

Toyota and Mclaren are singular, the rest are plural.

[Rich]

Originally posted by ensign14

There's no hard and fast rule. I treat companies as singular, but when it comes to sports teams I think of them as a collective..."we're gonna win the league"...

Yes, it would sound very strange to say "It is going to win the league" when referring to a team. Unless, of course, there is a strong and derisive emphasis on the "it", and you're talking about V***a.

[LB]

Originally posted by ensign14

There's no hard and fast rule. I treat companies as singular, but when it comes to sports teams I think of them as a collective..."we're gonna win the league"...

Isn't that more to do with fans considering themselves part of the collective so you get what is basically Birmingham and I are going to win the league (in our dreams). If it was from my side as a non fan I would say Birmingham is going to win the league (maybe if the other 19 go bankrupt...) but since my grammer is about as good as the average two year olds I wouldn't bother listening to me anyway

[Morris Dancer]

Spot-on, Just, but try telling that to today's journalists, many of whom are Gen-Xers and consequently too young to have gone to school when English was taught properly.

The solutions - don't hold your breath - are to send them to a remedial English class, or employ a competent sub-editor.