86 replies to this topic

[AdamLarnachJr]

Having read through all the books by Staniforth, Adams, McBeath, Erjavec, etc. etc. I have yet to find any illustrations in either the books or online of a typical center lock hub/bearing layout. If anybody can point me in the right direction I would be much obliged. Specifically, I'm looking for front and rear bearing/spindle/hub specifications and/or schematics of a RWD car.

Thanks!

[fastcarl]

Alan Staniforth did write an article in the long defunked racetech publications of the early ninties, it outlined the thread pitches most commonly used and the why's and why nots of left and right hand threads etc. of the then current BTCC teams

it gave me the info i needed to set too and develope my own,

carl,

[javelin]

tag

[AdamLarnachJr]

Thank you for the reply. I was looking at Racetech for back issues but only found Staniforth's Ackermann articles. Looks like I will have to hunt around a bit for it... maybe a local library has it on microfilm. Anyway, if anyone else has any input it would be greatly appreciated. Simple layouts to detailed info are all appreciated. I will post my illustration later for those of you with the knowledge to critique its application.

Thanks again!

[antonvrs]

I believe that one Carroll Smith's books- "Prepare To Win" or Engineer To Win" might have what you are looking for.
Anton

[AdamLarnachJr]

I came up with this idea after having a look around, I don't know if its common or whatnot but I gave it a shot anyway. Basically you have a single machine "snub" with an integrated drive flange. For my particular application I would like to have a "dual-use" snub that will have the ability to accept a drive axle as well as be adequate for non drive axles. I'm incorporating a rear "retainer" nut to hold the snub firmly in place against the rear bearing race. This nut will work when the snub is being driven and when it is not. Here's a look at what I've come up with. This design is for illustrative purposes only and was just to get a "feel" for what it would look like.

Please comment if you have any critiques on its application.

Thanks again for all of your input, I will be hunting around to get more specific data wherever I can find it.

[Peter Leversedge]

Adam you could try some of the companies that supply "knock on" set ups for Midgets & Sprintcars etc.
I have used "knock on" front and rear hubs.on my cars. I have not got around to posting photos yet but if you are interested I could email some info and contacts.
peterleversedge@clear.net.nz
Regards Pete
[Ex sprintcar owner/driver]

[murpia]

Originally posted by fastcarl
...the why's and why nots of left and right hand threads etc. of the then current BTCC teams...

That sounds like fun, anyone want to chip in as to why or why not you might want a left or right hand threaded wheelnut on the left or right hand sides, or the front or the rear, or...?

Regards, Ian

[McGuire]

Originally posted by murpia

That sounds like fun, anyone want to chip in as to why or why not you might want a left or right hand threaded wheelnut on the left or right hand sides, or the front or the rear, or...?

Regards, Ian

Yes, that is a very interesting subject, real mechanician's lore.

[fastcarl]

Originally posted by murpia

That sounds like fun, anyone want to chip in as to why or why not you might want a left or right hand threaded wheelnut on the left or right hand sides, or the front or the rear, or...?

Regards, Ian

it turned out at the time that some teams used left on the left and right on the right , some the other way around and some right hand threads all round, but no teams seamed to be suffering from loose nuts[wheels nuts that is] so it would appear inconclusive,

i myself ,for ease on making us right hand all round,as long as there is minimal slack between the drive pegs and the wheel there will be less tendency for the nut to be rocked back and forth during acceleration and braking,but once its ripped up good and tight mine have never come loose,


carl

[AdamLarnachJr]

I would think that with a nut retention system, the chances of a nut coming loose are nill.

Peter, I got some info from Travis over at Taylor and it was very valuable. His blueprints gave me some ideas to design the hub in the illustration above. His hubs are similar to a bolt except it has a splined section that the drive flange mounts to. It also will only accept VW style drive flanges.

Thanks again for all of the input, I learned a lot after work yesterday, sometimes you just need that extra bit of info until it all comes full circle.

[Engineguy]

This guy could probably give you some advice on tightening your nuts...

[McGuire]

Originally posted by AdamLarnachJr
I would think that with a nut retention system, the chances of a nut coming loose are nill.

Oh, you would be surprised, especially when you are doing live pit stops.


... the idea of self-tightening centerlock wheel nuts with directionally specific threads originated nearly a century ago with the invention of the Rudge wheel. There is a ton of lore as to how knockoffs and centerlocks actually work, some of it amusingly specious.


There is a related but technically rather different topic, LH vs. RH wheel studs/bolts on conventional bolt-on (safety hub) type wheels. Trucks above around one ton generally use LH aka reverse threads on the left side wheel studs. Also all vintage military equipment, including Jeeps. Many passenger cars have used them too... Just about everyone except Ford, including some GM up through the early 60s... Chrysler hung onto them the longest, to around 1970. Alfa was one notable European exponent, also using brass nuts for good measure.

With a proper "hubcentric" wheel design and the right conical profile on the nut and wheel face, LH threads are no longer required on passenger cars. Honda uses a hemispherical rather than a conical profile... so just the right mismatch of wheel flange and nut/bolt profiles will result in the quasi-mysterious case of wheels falling off "all by themselves."

Ring gears (aka crown gears) typically use reverse thread fasteners to retain them to the differential carrier.

[murpia]

Originally posted by McGuire
There is a related but technically rather different topic, LH vs. RH wheel studs/bolts on conventional bolt-on (safety hub) type wheels. Trucks above around one ton generally use LH aka reverse threads on the left side wheel studs. Also all vintage military equipment, including Jeeps...

Ring gears (aka crown gears) typically use reverse thread fasteners to retain them to the differential carrier.

What's the reasoning (lore?) behind these spec's?

Regards, Ian

[AdamLarnachJr]

Indeed, its a very interesting subject. So with a cotter pin, tie, lock, or other retention system the nut will be able to exert enough force to break through those? McGuire I'm curious as to where you've gotten your information (not that I question its validity), is it just a culmination of experience or is there any literature you've read that explains this subject in detail? I'm still looking for Staniforth's article in Autosport, if I can get my hands on that. Trevor Harris is only a few miles up the road, maybe I'll go knock on his door.

Thanks!

[McGuire]

Originally posted by murpia


What's the reasoning (lore?) behind these spec's?

Regards, Ian

The principle has been described as epicyclic precession. The nut is generally slightly smaller than its mating surface, so relative motion between the two will cause the nut to rotate (like a hula hoop). So the proper directional thread will cause this motion to tighten the nut rather than loosen it.

If you look at a Rudge-type centerlock wheel, you can see that the nut has a female thread face that goes over the hub, rather than the usual setup -- male taper on the nut/female taper on the wheel. This reverses the usual LH/RH thread convention wrt to wheel rotation (L or R side of the car) because the planetary motion is reversed. Here the nut is slightly larger than its mating surface on the wheel.

This is how knockoff wheels work. If the threads are properly oriented, a knockoff wheel can be secured with just a medium tap with a wooden mallet. Driving the car will cause the nut to tighten itself until all relative motion between the nut and wheel is taken up. To loosen the knockoffs for ease of disassembly, simply back around in a circle for a bit. This also works when loosening conventional lug nuts, but only on the threads that are oriented in the proper direction.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by AdamLarnachJr
Indeed, its a very interesting subject. So with a cotter pin, tie, lock, or other retention system the nut will be able to exert enough force to break through those?

What do you mean by cotter pin?

[McGuire]

Originally posted by AdamLarnachJr
McGuire I'm curious as to where you've gotten your information (not that I question its validity), is it just a culmination of experience or is there any literature you've read that explains this subject in detail?

You have never seen a centerlock wheel depart from a race car not long after a pit stop?

[murpia]

Originally posted by McGuire
The principle has been described as epicyclic precession. The nut is generally slightly smaller than its mating surface, so relative motion between the two will cause the nut to rotate (like a hula hoop). So the proper directional thread will cause this motion to tighten the nut rather than loosen it.

If you look at a Rudge-type centerlock wheel, you can see that the nut has a female thread face that goes over the hub, rather than the usual setup -- male taper on the nut/female taper on the wheel. This reverses the usual LH/RH thread convention wrt to wheel rotation (L or R side of the car) because the planetary motion is reversed. Here the nut is slightly larger than its mating surface on the wheel.

This is how knockoff wheels work. If the threads are properly oriented, a knockoff wheel can be secured with just a medium tap with a wooden mallet. Driving the car will cause the nut to tighten itself until all relative motion between the nut and wheel is taken up. To loosen the knockoffs for ease of disassembly, simply back around in a circle for a bit. This also works when loosening conventional lug nuts, but only on the threads that are oriented in the proper direction.

OK, what's dictating the relative motion, and the direction of that motion? Runout of the wheel on the hub? 'Wobbling' of the wheel on the axle?

I can see how that setup works for centre-locks, but what about the case mentioned above of conventional studs?

Regards, Ian

[McGuire]

A funny story about knockoffs John Collins of Shelby American once told me... Mark Donohue was invited in to test the Ford GT Mk IV. One of the Shelby mechanics, Steele Therkleson, had a habit of going around the car and giving the knockoffs one final whack with the BFH just before the car went out on the track. Donohue found the series of jolts annoying and said, "Hey! Do you have to hit them so hard?"

Therkleson replied, "I can loosen them up a little for you if you like." Donohue didn't have a whole lot to say after that, Collins told me.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by murpia

OK, what's dictating the relative motion, and the direction of that motion? Runout of the wheel on the hub? 'Wobbling' of the wheel on the axle?

I can see how that setup works for centre-locks, but what about the case mentioned above of conventional studs?

Regards, Ian

In either case the wheel is attempting to rotate on the hub. Since the nut is a different effective diameter than the surface it is riding on, that motion is off center to the nut and will tend to rotate it.

You know how when there is a bolt or nut buried somewhere behind a bracket, and you can just barely get one finger on a corner of it to spin it on or off? Sort of like that. If you can only touch the center of the fastener you have no way to turn it.

If your own car has steel wheels with conical lug nuts you can see this yourself. Jack up one wheel and loosen the lug nuts until they are just contacting the wheel and then rotate the wheel back and forth on its hub -- you can actually watch the lug nuts rotating a minute amount.

[AdamLarnachJr]

Originally posted by McGuire


You have never seen a centerlock wheel depart from a race car not long after a pit stop?

Yes, I have, just not in the past few years.

As far as a cotter pin goes... hair pin cotter if you will, I've seen these as a way of retaining the wheels. I've seen guys use zip ties too!

[McGuire]

Nothing against those things, I use them a lot, but those are not cotter pins. I suppose we can call them cotter pins if we want, but then what do we call a real cotter pin should we ever come across one?

These are genuine cotter pins:

Below is a split pin. Very often these are called cotter pins too, but that is technically incorrect as well. This confusion arose because sometimes a split pin is used to retain a cotter pin (as a "cotter key," instead of nuts as in the top photo).

You know, you may as well use a zip tie as a hairpin clip or a pip pin to hold a wheel nut on as they will all do the same thing. None can keep the nut tightened, but it may stop the nut from flying off into the tall weeds if you are not going very fast.

[murpia]

Originally posted by McGuire
In either case the wheel is attempting to rotate on the hub. Since the nut is a different effective diameter than the surface it is riding on, that motion is off center to the nut and will tend to rotate it.

If your own car has steel wheels with conical lug nuts you can see this yourself. Jack up one wheel and loosen the lug nuts until they are just contacting the wheel and then rotate the wheel back and forth on its hub -- you can actually watch the lug nuts rotating a minute amount.

OK, it's easy enough to see that relative motion between the wheel and the hub will undo nuts, whether it's a centrelock design with drive pegs and a single nut or a standard hub with multiple drive studs and nuts.

But that relative motion must be cyclical, equal amounts in both directions, or else it would only occur once. Therefore it would make no difference if the thread was left or right handed, either type is just as easily undone...

Regards, Ian

[Greg Locock]

So, on conventional modern road cars, which wheels fall off the most often? Since they are all right hand threads, one side, or one axle, must be 'wrong'.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by murpia

OK, it's easy enough to see that relative motion between the wheel and the hub will undo nuts, whether it's a centrelock design with drive pegs and a single nut or a standard hub with multiple drive studs and nuts.

But that relative motion must be cyclical, equal amounts in both directions, or else it would only occur once. Therefore it would make no difference if the thread was left or right handed, either type is just as easily undone...

Regards, Ian

Not cyclic, epicyclic. Or to be more precise, epicycloidal. Look up "fretting precession" or "thread precession." Or look at the left pedal crank on a bicycle.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Greg Locock
So, on conventional modern road cars, which wheels fall off the most often? Since they are all right hand threads, one side, or one axle, must be 'wrong'.

Not really. With a hubcentric wheel, the proper lug nut taper and adequate fastener torque, there is insufficient relative motion between the parts to produce thread precession. So naturally, passenger cars no longer require directional threads on the lug nuts. If a wheel falls off there is another reason. However, trucks still use LH threads on the left side lugs.

[AdamLarnachJr]

Originally posted by McGuire
Nothing against those things, I use them a lot, but those are not cotter pins. I suppose we can call them cotter pins if we want, but then what do we call a real cotter pin should we ever come across one?

These are genuine cotter pins:

Below is a split pin. Very often these are called cotter pins too, but that is technically incorrect as well. This confusion arose because sometimes a split pin is used to retain a cotter pin (as a "cotter key," instead of nuts as in the top photo).

You know, you may as well use a zip tie as a hairpin clip or a pip pin to hold a wheel nut on as they will all do the same thing. None can keep the nut tightened, but it may stop the nut from flying off into the tall weeds if you are not going very fast.

Hmm, you learn something every day. Thanks

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by McGuire


Not really. With a hubcentric wheel, the proper lug nut taper and adequate fastener torque, there is insufficient relative motion between the parts to produce thread precession. So naturally, passenger cars no longer require directional threads on the lug nuts. If a wheel falls off there is another reason. However, trucks still use LH threads on the left side lugs.

These days not all trucks use left hand threads on the left side. The current truck I drive uses American style ten stud wheels with nuts with flat washers built on (not taper nuts but flat washers) It uses right hand threads on all wheels.
But my years of driving trucks tells me that it is always the left hand wheels that come loose when right hand threads are fitted.

On the centre lock wheels used on touring cars in Australia from the mid 80s they used left hand threads on the right and right hand threads on the left. Mind you they did throw a lot of wheels at the scenery in them days.

[McGuire]

Would you be speaking of the Alcoa forged aluminum wheels? They put them on everything around here anymore. Pretty spiffy too, like great big car wheels.

This discussion got me to thinking about all the applications for left-hand threads through the years. There were a bunch of them in the '80s and '90s with the conversion to serpentine belts, which required reversing the rotation on some of the driven accessories.

[desmo]

I believe I've got the RaceTech issue with the Stanisforth article on CL wheel retention, but a quick dig didn't unearth it. If memory serves, the conclusion was that he documented that just about every combination of LH and RH threads had been tried at various times and the bottom line was that it really appeared to make no practical difference which threads were employed for wheel retention. In bicycles, where differing standards were once common and RH and LH threads were both routinely used, the same consensus seems to exist: It really makes little if any difference in the real world for bottom bracket threadings, although pedals are still LH threaded on the non-drive side and are presumed to "self tighten" as a result. I suspect it makes no difference there either but why change now and make all the old stuff incompatable for no good reason?

[275 GTB-4]

A friend has an MG with splined hubs and wire wheels...he will be putting spoked alloys on soon.

Question: do they cast-in a steel splined inner or sweat it in or afix it some other way

[fastcarl]

that will depend if he can have mating female splins cut into the alloys he wants to use, if not fitting steel splined inserts will be a waste of time if they are only an interfearance/sweated in fit, the only thing holding the wheel on is the friction between the two parts, that will soon become departed,

if hes going to alloy wheels he will be better off adapting the hubs to a drive peg arrangment.


carl

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by fastcarl
that will depend if he can have mating female splins cut into the alloys he wants to use, if not fitting steel splined inserts will be a waste of time if they are only an interfearance/sweated in fit, the only thing holding the wheel on is the friction between the two parts, that will soon become departed,

if hes going to alloy wheels he will be better off adapting the hubs to a drive peg arrangment.

carl

They are aftermarket wheels...I just didn't think a steel hub to an alloy female spline arrangement would be a good idea from a strength or dissimilar metals point of view...meehhh...probably barking up the wrong tree as per usual

http://www.performan...lite_spline.asp

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by McGuire
Would you be speaking of the Alcoa forged aluminum wheels? They put them on everything around here anymore. Pretty spiffy too, like great big car wheels.

This discussion got me to thinking about all the applications for left-hand threads through the years. There were a bunch of them in the '80s and '90s with the conversion to serpentine belts, which required reversing the rotation on some of the driven accessories.

Yes, my truck runs the Alcoa riceboy wheels complete with low profile 70 series tyres (or tires)

As for left hand threads, the fan drive on my Cummins ISC engine is a big left hand thread to self tighten as the motor spins. Same as my old Ford 1986 Falcon only bigger.

[fastcarl]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4


They are aftermarket wheels...I just didn't think a steel hub to an alloy female spline arrangement would be a good idea from a strength or dissimilar metals point of view...meehhh...probably barking up the wrong tree as per usual

http://www.performan...lite_spline.asp

those superlite wheels are not splinde drive as they suggest, they are peg driven, claerly shown in the wheel rear shot, i think they have given them a fancy product name to make them more attractively labeled to the technically lacking,lol.

although an alloy femal spline [depending upon size of car and power ,etc] will almost certainly cope with the stresses and strains of driving the car, using the correct alloys are inportant,
mine on my car do.allbeit on the drive flange to CV joint,


carl

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by fastcarl
those superlite wheels are not splinde drive as they suggest, they are peg driven, claerly shown in the wheel rear shot, i think they have given them a fancy product name to make them more attractively labeled to the technically lacking,lol.

although an alloy femal spline [depending upon size of car and power ,etc] will almost certainly cope with the stresses and strains of driving the car, using the correct alloys are inportant,
mine on my car do.allbeit on the drive flange to CV joint,

carl

Hey Carl, my friend said this:

Sorry, but I don't think Carl is correct. From the (admittedly not too detailed) photos on the factory website, I believe the holes in the rear view of the alloy wheel are for bolting the hub in, not for pegs (as per Lotus Elan). The hub centre will have splines, just like the original wire wheels. I was directed to the website by one of the Sydney MGCC guys who said these wheels are what the Sydney guys are using, so it must work.

Contrary to the opinion of the technically deprived, the splines are for locating the hub, not for driving. The drive is taken by the two cones on each hub, as they have a much bigger surface contact - happy to demonstrate.

[fastcarl]

are you saying the splined hub is bolted to the origional drive flange and the heads of which sit in the holes in the wheels,[ which will act as a drive peg],

no offence, but think about the drive method, there is no way the drive is being taken by a pair of tapered cones , what do you think would happen if you removed the splines and asked the cones to create enough friction to transmit all the torque from the diff through the wheels to the ground, they would surely spin in the wheel.


carl

[Peter Leversedge]

When you have splines on the axle, hubs with splines and hubs with drive pins that fit into the wheel the axle drives the hubs via the splines, the hubs drive the wheels via the drive pins, the wheel is located by the hub .
and the presure plate and tapered nut keep in all together.

When you have splines on the wheels the splines drive the wheels and the tapered nut holds it all together, What locates the wheel ? the splines or the tapered nut? I have only owned a car with seperate hubs so have not thought to much about what locates the wheel when you have splined wheels.

If you have alloy wheels, hubs, nuts etc back them off when hot over wise you may have trouble getting them undone when cold.

I once had a right rear nut [ LH thread ] get that tight on a real drivey track that I had to put the whole rear end in a lathe and turn it off. [ had trouble finding a lathe big enough that would swing a qucik change!!! ]

The same goes for the front wheel when braking

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by fastcarl
are you saying the splined hub is bolted to the origional drive flange and the heads of which sit in the holes in the wheels,[ which will act as a drive peg],

no offence, but think about the drive method, there is no way the drive is being taken by a pair of tapered cones , what do you think would happen if you removed the splines and asked the cones to create enough friction to transmit all the torque from the diff through the wheels to the ground, they would surely spin in the wheel.


carl

Ummmmm we need an MG expert....It was explained to me that the two cones do indeed provide the "drive" (noting that the "knock off" is belted on fairly tight). You might grease the splines but never the cones otherwise they can't grip and your splines will be ruined eventually.

[murpia]

Is this for real? There are cars driving around with nothing but the friction between two surfaces (and a tight nut) transmitting the torque of the brakes and drive?

Regards, Ian

[McGuire]

Regret to inform you it's perfectly true. Told you there was some arcane mechanician's lore involved in this topic.

...and it's not really as shaky as it may appear either. A pair of wedged tapers can be very robust. For more mechanician's lore, there is something called the SKF process, in which two shallow tapers with an interference fit of around three-thousandths of an inch are locked together hydraulically. After the hydraulic pressure is removed, the join will hold together forever as long as the two parts have sufficient hoop strength. (Reliable interference fits can handle enormous torsional loadings.) Used in large industrial equipment -- and also to join together the two crankshaft halves of the Climax flat-16 F1 engine.

[imaginesix]

I've had flat-face nuts on my road car and a race car that wouldn't come loose on their own.

[fastcarl]

the more i think about it the more i think the taper cone tranmitting all the drive and torque/power is incorrect, and if i were to be more blunt [which as a new member i don't want to be] id say is rubbish.
why bother with the splines in the first place, why not just have the wheels located on the cone on the hub side would taking the vertical load and the outer doing the clamping,

just wont work, , you need some possitive method of drive,

why dod they use splins on the end of drive shafts inot a drive flange,

think about it for a moment gents,

look at modern American sprint cars , useing splined hub centres and centrlock, your not telling me they do'nt use the splines to transmit power,


carl

[McGuire]

To understand how this all works you have to take yourself back to when the Rudge-type wheel was invented a century ago, with blacksmith-grade metals and machining tolerances. Nowadays we can use overkill materials and tighten the hell out of the nut until everything squeaks. The whole assembly is locked together as one and we are good to go. A Rudge-type wheel doesn't work that way; it's more subtle. (Here the brute-force approach will actually ruin the wheel, hub, and assembly.)

On Ye Olde British sports car and similar, the wheel is designed to seat on the cone or taper on the hub, with the nut pushing the wheel (God bless Archimedes) through the interference of the two tapers and locking it on the hub. If not (or if that inner taper were not there) now the only things preventing the wheel from rotating on the splines are the splines themselves and the clamping force of the nut (which is quickly loosened by fretting precession if the threads are not oriented properly wrt rotation). So very quickly the splines will wear and develop axial play, producing the characteristic Rudge clunk on braking and acceleration. (Causing the owner to further overtighten the nut to make the clunk go away, etc and so forth, infinite progession.)

And this is why when you remove the wire wheel on Ye Olde British sports car, you often find the splines worn sharp like the teeth on a file. That tells you the wheel no longer fits properly on the hub taper. Seldom if ever do you find the splines worn out completely as the the car becomes too frightening to drive well before that, or the wheel simply falls off. So the whole key to the assembly is the inner taper. If the wheel doesn't properly seat on the taper, none of it works.

[AdamLarnachJr]

UPDATE:

Well my questions have been aswered this weekend. I was able to work on a Trans Am/GT-1 car as well as the Creation CA06 prototype (alongside Ian Bickerton of Creation), and on both cars the right sides are left handed threads. The only difference besides the construction of the nuts is that the Creation has a retainer system that works off two wedge shaped bits supported by a common spring. They compress as the nut is fastened, but it cannot be compressed if they loosen. The only way to properly remove the nut is with the specially designed socket.

Another important factor is the pressure the tanks are set too, 180-190psi is the proper range for both of these cars.

Thanks again for everyones help.

[Ben]

Originally posted by AdamLarnachJr
UPDATE:

Well my questions have been aswered this weekend. I was able to work on a Trans Am/GT-1 car as well as the Creation CA06 prototype (alongside Ian Bickerton of Creation), and on both cars the right sides are left handed threads. The only difference besides the construction of the nuts is that the Creation has a retainer system that works off two wedge shaped bits supported by a common spring. They compress as the nut is fastened, but it cannot be compressed if they loosen. The only way to properly remove the nut is with the specially designed socket.

Another important factor is the pressure the tanks are set too, 180-190psi is the proper range for both of these cars.

Thanks again for everyones help.

That's the Intersport car right? I'm off to Estoril next week for the Dunlop test where the CA08-AIM LMS car will be running. I'll be looking after the ASM Lola. We also have a new toy from Weissach to play with... :-)

Ben

[AdamLarnachJr]

Ben,

It was actually the Autocon car, Intersport is now running the Lola (again). I think it's the same chassis as you guys are running, except with an AER V8. Ian was mentioning he was off to Spain and then Portugal, or the other way around.

Are you guys going to Le Mans this year? If so I'll probably see you over there.

Adios

[Lukin]

We have had a situation where the drive pegs in a hub have failed and it couldn't transmit any longitudinal loading. There is a taper, however it's between the wheelnut and the rim, the rim inner face to spindle face is flat.

Up until a few years back we ran the LH nuts on the LH side (always painted black) and RH on the RH side (painted red). It was a throwback to the early days like Cataline Park said but since going RH all around there hasn't been any dramas. It saves a lot of hastle too (have to have spares of each and wheel guns for each side of the car for pitstops).

The rules state that the spindle has to have a wheelclip to keep the rim/tyre on even if the nut comes loose. The wheelclip has spring loaded flipper wheels which prevent the wheelnut coming off the spindle without a wheelgun or by pushing on them at a certain angle (which can't be done by the wheel and/or nut during operation)/


Out of interest;
http://members.iinet...cs/DSCF0163.JPG

[zac510]

Originally posted by Ben


That's the Intersport car right? I'm off to Estoril next week for the Dunlop test where the CA08-AIM LMS car will be running. I'll be looking after the ASM Lola. We also have a new toy from Weissach to play with... :-)

Ben

OT, but should be a good year for LM24 and LMES! Can't wait.