13 replies to this topic

[911rsl]

i find this UNBELIEVEABLE? how can i see a snipit here and a snipit there regarding certain drivers or cars and their/it's placement at various European Hillclimb Championship events.


BUT YET NO ONE HAS THE ACTUAL RESULTS LISTS .

seems pretty strange to me .

WHY are people HOARDING and not giving up this info.

i KNOW it's out there - i've even asked people who i see asking and collecting it between each other . but no one will answer directly on a forum when asked - OR I DIRECTLY write and ask people who i see trading info - NO ONE WILL REPLY - WHAT"S UP.

and this is not just about 1973-1983 - but ALL the YEARS - but the 70's seems to be guarded the most (least info circulating the world).

come on someone COUGH IT UP !!

PLEASE

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by 911rsl
i find this UNBELIEVEABLE? how can i see a snipit here and a snipit there regarding certain drivers or cars and their/it's placement at various European Hillclimb Championship events.


BUT YET NO ONE HAS THE ACTUAL RESULTS LISTS .

seems pretty strange to me .

WHY are people HOARDING and not giving up this info.

i KNOW it's out there - i've even asked people who i see asking and collecting it between each other . but no one will answer directly on a forum when asked - OR I DIRECTLY write and ask people who i see trading info - NO ONE WILL REPLY - WHAT"S UP.

and this is not just about 1973-1983 - but ALL the YEARS - but the 70's seems to be guarded the most (least info circulating the world).

come on someone COUGH IT UP !!

PLEASE

The FIA Yearbooks will have the results from all the events counting towards the European Hill-Climb Champioships but do not carry the times for each driver.

e.g. for 1975 it lists Div A (Gr 1 & 3) 1st & 2nd overall; Div B (Gr 2 & 4) overall; and Div C (Gr 5 & 7) 1st only.
It also lists the points these drivers were awarded.

Surely the FIA must have the Full Results somewhere?

[Alan Lewis]

Originally posted by 911rsl
i find this UNBELIEVEABLE? how can i see a snipit here and a snipit there regarding certain drivers or cars and their/it's placement at various European Hillclimb Championship events.


BUT YET NO ONE HAS THE ACTUAL RESULTS LISTS .

seems pretty strange to me .

WHY are people HOARDING and not giving up this info.

i KNOW it's out there - i've even asked people who i see asking and collecting it between each other . but no one will answer directly on a forum when asked - OR I DIRECTLY write and ask people who i see trading info - NO ONE WILL REPLY - WHAT"S UP.

and this is not just about 1973-1983 - but ALL the YEARS - but the 70's seems to be guarded the most (least info circulating the world).

come on someone COUGH IT UP !!

PLEASE

Hmmm, I dunno...do you think maybe it's the CIA? Or the Freemasons? They're often to blame.

Maybe the reason people are only exchanging snippits is that that is all they have; if you spend any time at all on this forum, you will quickly realise that, whilst some amazing knowledge is out there, some things simply no longer exist - or are so obscure and hard to find that they take considerable research effort to unearth. Why don't you do some of that instead of riding on the back of other people's work? You may find that you already know more than any of the people you blithely assume to be "hoarding".

If they don't reply when you ask them, perhaps they can't answer the question you're asking? Or maybe they're put off because you ask as aggressively as you did here?

I can't answer your question either. The only information I can give you is from 1975 the FIA "yellow book", which gives the first twenty or so points scorers from 1974, and the individual event winners from 1957-1973.

I give the '74 results below. I hope it helps, perhaps you already have it - it is, after all, fully in the public domain, in an official FIA publication, and not someone's supposed "hoard". In which case, unlucky, that's how it goes sometimes.

The European Hill-Climb Championship 1974

Round 1: Ampus-Draguignan; Round 2: Dobratsch; Round 3: Montseny; Round 4: Trento-Bondone; Round 5: Coppa Sila; Round 6: Schauinsland; Round 7: Les Rangiers

1. Jimmy Mieusset 20-20-20-20-15-0-0 = 95
2. Mauro Nesti 0-0-0-12-20-6-0 = 38
3=. Freddy Amweg 0-0-0-0-0-20-15 = 35
and Roland Salomon 0-0-0-0-0-15-20 = 35
5. Pierre Maublanc 6-0-0-0-0-12-12 = 30
6=. Herve Bayard 15-0-12-0-0-0-0 = 27
and Yves Martin 12-0-15-0-0-0-0 = 27
8=. Juan Fernandez 0-12-8-0-0-0-0 = 20
and "Gianfranco" 0-0-0-10-10-0-0 = 20
10. Anton Fischhaber 0-10-0-6-0-0-0 = 16
11=. Sepp Greger 0-15-0-0-0-0-0 = 15
and Gabriele Serblin 0-0-0-15-0-0-0 = 15
13=. Jacques Joliat 4-0-0-0-0-0-8 = 12
and Domenico Scola 0-0-0-0-12-0-0 = 12
15=. Hans Affentranger 0-0-0-0-0-0-10 = 10
and E. Baturone 0-0-10-0-0-0-0 = 10
and Harald Ertl 0-0-0-0-0-10-0 = 10
and Michel Pignard 10-0-0-0-0-0-0 = 10
19=. Roger Damaisin 8-0-0-0-0-0-0 = 8
and Manfred Mohr 0-0-0-8-0-0-0 = 8
and Mario Savona 0-0-0-0-8-0-0 = 8
and Jorg Siegrist 0-0-0-0-0-8-0 = 8
and Wilhelm Siller 0-8-0-0-0-0-0 = 8
etc. - 38 driver scored points

Classes (European Hill-Climb Trophies)

Division A : Cars in Groups 1 to 4 inclusive

1. Anton Fischhaber 20-20-12-20-0-(10)-12 = 84 (94 scored, 10 dropped on best fives scores rule)
2. Helmut Mander 12-12-0-8-20-0-1 = 53
3. Claude Haldi 0-0-20-0-0-15-0 = 35
4. Roland Biancone 15-0-0-15-0-0-0 = 30
5. Harry Blumer 0-0-0-0-0-12-15 = 27
6=. Wilhelm Bartels 8-6-0-4-0-2-0 = 20
and Walter Brun 0-0-0-0-0-0-20 = 20
and Paul Keller 0-0-0-0-0-20-0 = 20
9. Peter Arm 0-0-0-0-0-8-10 = 18
10. Jean Benabat 10-0-0-6-0-0-0 = 16
11=. Jacques Almeras 0-0-15-0-0-0-0 = 15
and Salvatore Barraco 0-0-0-0-15-0-0 = 15
and Wilhelm Siller 0-15-0-0-0-0-0 = 15
14. Bernard Cheveniere 0-0-0-0-0-6-8 = 14
15=. Martino Finotto 0-0-0-12-0-0-0 = 12
and "King" 0-0-0-0-12-0-0- = 12
17=. Erasmo Bologna 0-0-0-0-10-0-0 = 10
and Eric Chapuis 0-0-10-0-0-0-0 = 10
and Wilhelm Rabi 0-10-0-0-0-0-0 = 10
and "Toni" 0-0-0-10-0-0-0 = 10
etc. - 43 drivers scored points

Division B : Cars in Groups 5 and 7

1. Juan Fernandez 17.5-15-20-0-0-10-12 = 74.5
2. Mauro Nesti 0-0-0-20-20-20-0 = 60
3. Johann Abt 10-12-10-6-0-0-8 = 46
4. Marc Pozet 17.5-0-15-0-0-8-0 = 40.5
5. Sepp Greger 0-20-6-8-0-0-0 34
6. "Gianfranco" 0-0-0-15-12-0-0 = 27
7. Charly Kiser 0-0-0-0-0-4-20 = 24
8. Ruedi Jauslin 0-0-0-0-0-6-15 = 21
9=. Domenico Scola 0-0-0-0-15-0-0 = 15
and Dave Walker 0-0-0-0-0-15-0 = 15
11=. Daniel Gache 0-0-12-0-0-0-0 = 12
and Reinhold Joest 0-0-0-0-0-12-0 = 12
and Manfred Mohr 0-0-0-12-0-0-0 = 12
and Gianni Varese 12-0-0-0-0-0-0 = 12
15=. Luigi Pozzo 0-0-0-10-0-0-0 = 10
and Jean-Francois Renold 0-0-0-0-0-0-10 = 10
and Mario Savona 0-0-0-0-10-0-0 =10
18=. Pasquale Barberio 0-0-0-0-8-0-0 = 8
and J.-M. Coll 0-0-8-0-0-0-0 = 8
and Jean-Marc Guimelli 8-0-0-0-0-0-0 = 8
etc. - 33 drivers scored points

There is no separate points table supplied for Division C: Cars in Groups 8 and 9, just the note that Mieusset won it.

APL

[Alan Cox]

I would agree with Alan Lewis in that the reason why there has been little response to your request is that readers of this thread are unable to supply you with the answers, and also the tone of the enquiry is probably not particularly helpful. It seems to me that to find detailed results of European Hillclimb Championship events is very difficult - winners are fairly simple to find, but full results not so. A Google search will lead you to a number of sources.
I have the results for 1967-1969 courtesy of Eddie Guba's "Race Report" volumes, but no others.

TNFer Hans Etzrodt has the winners up until 1949 (and much more) listed on Leif Snellman's site http://www.kolumbus....ellman/hcw0.htm

[Allen Brown]

The tone of the request is definitely part of the problem. I spend a good proportion of my spare time gathering together race results (with the extensively and generous help of many kind volunteers) and publishing those for free so that people can make use of them. The effort of transcription and publication is considerable, as is the cost of the resources we need. Or, to put it another way, it takes time and money. The FIA does not support our effort. I wish it did.

And we are not the only people involved in this effort. Fine websites cover F2, pre-war racing, touring cars, sports cars and so on.

One day one of us will get to European Hill Climbs too. My most humble apologies on behalf of the entire community for 'hoarding' all the stuff we haven't published yet. I realise now how badly we have let you down.





Irony is so difficult to get right in writing. How did I do?

[petefenelon]

Alan Rollinson was an F2 driver

[Allen Brown]

Good point - it depends what time of day you catch me.

[conjohn]

A simple Google search turns up at least one interesting link - to Roman Krejci's site (brother of Martin, I believe) - and the last thing I would call them are 'hoarders'.

/Conny

[911rsl]

sorry for any "tone" - i have been trying to research a Swiss race car (porsche ). and at the same time always trying to dig out any hillclimb records (the most buried race results - of track , rallye , hillclimb) .

i have been on this for two years. i never had any real headaches in my life of high 40 years. in last 6 months i have occasionally succome to a few very intense head aches that last for a day or two.

i am starting to realise that it might be coming from staring at the computer screen while doing this research.

again - my apologies.

it becomes a bit frustrating.

there is a person from eastern europe that i have seen posting on this forum "Januszsz" .i saw some posts the looked as if someone had sent him the 1970's hillclimb info.

he was even referencing a website of his but when i tried to go there - NOTHING .

and i sent him an email -no reply

will the person who sent him the results post it here - please?

i cannot find the name of the website again right now to post - but no matter it was no good anyway.

can someone fill this in for 1975:

AND come up with the other catagory winners for each yr not listed? and explain the differance between the differant series (championship vs. Challenger vs. Trophy).


EBM
FIA European Hill Climb Championship

FIAHC
FIA International Hill Climb Challenge

FIAT
FIA European Hillclimb Trophy


1983 EBM Rolf Göring Lörrach BMW M1
1982 EBM Herbert Stenger Sommerkahl Ford Capri Turbo Gr.5
1982 FIAT Herbert Hürter Würzburg Ford Escort RS 2000
1981 EBM Herbert Stenger Sommerkahl Ford Escort BDA
1981 FIAT Karl Linnig ? Porsche 930 Turbo
1978 FIAT Herbert Stenger Sommerkahl Ford Escort
1977 EBM Heinz-Jürgen Pohlmann ? Ford Escort RS
1977 FIAT Anton Fischhaber Bad Tölz Porsche Carrera
1976 FIAT Willi Bartels Plettenberg Porsche Carrera
1975
1974 FIAT Anton Fischhaber Bad Tölz Porsche Carrera RS
1973 FIAT Sepp Greger Dachau Porsche Carrera RS

also the list of events that made up each yr (of each series ? if differant from each other).

and ANY individual event results lists fron any year that is from any of these series.

here is the results from 1973 Mount Ventoux - CH for instance

i need more of lists like this:

MONT VENTOUX

1973


CLASSEMENT GENERAL : INTERNATIONAUX ET NATIONAUX


1-MIEUSSET F March 9'03"6/10 142,278 km/h
2-MAUBLANC F Chevron 9'04"3 142,095
3-RUA F Pygmée 9'13"2 139,809
4-"SHANGRY-LA" l Surtees 9'32"2 135,166
5-LAPIERRE F Pygmée 9'34"4 134,649
6-DAMAISIN F Chevron 9'40"2 133,302
7-STAIANO F Provence 9'42"7 132,731
8-PECHAIRE F Pygmée 9'45"5 132,096
9-HALDI CH Porsche 9'59"1 129,097
10-FERNANDEZ E Porsche 10'08"4 127,124


GROUPE II : VOITURES DE TOURISME SPÉCIALES

classe 4 : de 1301 à 1600 cm3

1-PARLAMENTO I Alfa Romco GTV 12'24"8/10 103,843 km/h
2-"CHARLOTTE" F Renault R 12 13'19"8
3-MASSET F BLMC 1300 S 13'25"

classe 5 : de 1601 à 2000 cm3

1-LEFEBVRE F Ford Escort 1800 RS 10'44" RB 120,096

GROUPE III ET IV CONFONDUS: VOITURES DE GRAND TOURISME DE SÉRIE ET SPÉCIALES

classe 4 : de 2001 à 3000 cm3

1-HALDI CH Porsche Carrera 6 cyl, 9'59"1 RB 129,097
2-ORTELLI F Alpine A 110 1800 10'59"
3-BALLAS F Porsche 911 Carrera 11'09''
4-GUIGNARD CH Porsche911S 11'13''
5-POCHON CH Porsche 11'32''3
6-MERMOD Maryl F Porsche Carrera RS 11 '43"
7-FISCHHABER D Porsche Carrera 6 cyl, 12'00"2

classe 5 : plus de 3000 cm3

1-DEROUDILLE F De Tomaso Panthera 12'49" 100,575

GROUPES V, VII, VIII ET IX CONFONDUS: VOITURES DE SPORT, COURSE BIPLACE, COURSE ET FORMULES

plus de 1300 cm3

1-MIEUSSET F March 722 9'03"6 RGB 142,278
2-MAUBLANC F Chevron B 25 9'04"3
3 -'RUA F Pygmée MDB 18 9'13"2
4-"SHANGRY-LA" I Surtees TS 10 9'32"2
5-LAPIERRE F Ford-Pygmée 9'34"4
6-STAIANO F Provence 9'42"7
7-FERNANDEZ E Porsche spider 908/03 10'08"4
8-WITTWER CH Brabham-Cosworth 10'44"6
9-ANSPANN D Ford-CosworthMKl104 11'31''6

COURSE NATIONALE

GROUPE I: VOITURES DE TOURISME DE SÉRIE

classe 3 : de 1151 à 1300 cm"

1-FABRE Simca Rallye 2 13'55"8 RB 92,536
2-MAGNAN Renault R 8 Gordini 14'05"
3-JULIER Simca Rallye 2 14'10"7
4-GARCIN Simca Rallye 2 14'19"5
5-RICHARD Simca Rallye 2 14'23"9
6-TINELLI Simca Rallye 2 14'58"2

classe 5 : de 1601 à 2000 cm3

1-GINOUVIER BMW 2002 TI 12'50"3 RB 100,405
2-AUGIAS BMW 2002 TI 12'50"8
3-ROME Alfa Romeo 13'16"7
4-PASSEBOIS Alfa Romeo 13'38"1
5-" VAMOLO " Opel Ascona 14'12"9
6-COLOMBIER Régine BMW 2002 TI 14'14"9

classe 7 : plus de 3000 cm3

1-BITARD Ford Mustang 351 GT 12'17"4 RB 104,885

GROUPE II : VOITURES DE TOURISME SPÉCIALES

classe 3 : de 1151 à 1300 cm3

1-GADRET BLMC Cooper S 1300 12'13"7 RB 105,414
2-AUGUSTE BMC Cooper 12'58"2
3-LEUXE Renault R 8 Gordini 13'12"3
4-REY Renault R 8 Gordini 13'24"
5-GARAIX Renault R 8 Gordini 14'07"4
6-BOISSY Austin-Cooper 18'53"

classe 4 : de 1301 à 1600 cm3

1-CHAMBOVET Renault R 12 Gordini 12'50"4 RB 100,392
2-CLEMENT Renault R 12 Gordini 13'07"3




classe 5 : de 1601 à 2000 cm3

1-RlCHE Ford Escort1800RS 11'08''1/10 RB 115,764km/h
2-SIBILLA Alfa RomeoGTA 11'30''4
3-" VELD" BMW 2002 TI 12'09"1

classe 6 : de 2001 à 3000 cm3

1-BALLET Ford Capri 2600 RS 12'45"3 RB 101,061
2-ERDMANN Ford Capri 2600 RS 13'22"8

GROUPE III : VOITURES DE GRAND TOURISME DE SÉRIE

classe 2 : de 1301 à 1600 cm3
1-Du CASTEL Alpine A 110 1600 12'24" 103,954
2-COLONGIN Alpine A 110 1600 12'35"8
3-SECCONE Alpine A 110 1600 12'36"6

classe 4 : de 2001 à 3000 cm3

1-PLANCHER PorscheCarrera911RS 11'29'' RB 112,253
2-FAVOLINI Porsche Carrera 911 S 11'37''
3-AVEROUS PorscheCarreraRS 11'42''1
4-PHILIPPE AlpineAl101600S 11'49''4

GROUPE IV: VOITURES DE GRAND TOURISME SPÉCIALES

classe 3 : de 1601 à 3000 cm3
1-BENABA AlpineAl101800 11'39'' RE 110,647
2-AUTRAN Alpine A 110 1600 S 11'43''1
3-GABRIEL Alpine A 110 1600 S 13'02"8

classe 4 : de 2001 à 3000 cm3
1-PLANCHET Porsche 911 S 10'54"2 RB 118,224

GROUPE V ET VII : VOITURES DE SPORT ET COURSE BIPLACE

classe 1 : de 0 à 1300 cm3

1-ARLAUD Renault Dauphine prototype 12'06" RB 106,532
2-GAUTHIER SIB barquette 12'27"4

classe 2 : de 1301 à 1600 cm3
1-POUTHZE Abarth 1600 10'47"8 RB 119,392
2-CANAUD SIBSimcabarquette 11'25''4
3-RENARDAT SIB barquette 11'26''9
4-SABBIA SIB barquette 11 '34' '9
5-SALIGNON Renault Dauphine prototytpe 12'26"4

classe 3 : de 1601 à 2000 cm3

1-BELIN Dance} 10'21" RB 124,544
2-GUIMELLI Chevron B 23 S 10'30"3


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THX

i'm sure i am not the only person who would like to know see this info.


also to person who posted 1974 results - do you have the car type of each finisher listed ? i know probably not or you would have listed - but i thought i'd ask.

thx again

[Alan Lewis]

Originally posted by 911rsl
..also to person who posted 1974 results - do you have the car type of each finisher listed?...

Nope, that's all there is. I'm assuming that it's a driver's series so the FIA yearbook lists only the driver's points...

Looking at what you've listed, my suggestion that you may already know more than most people and they should be asking you for information may not be far from the truth.

And if you've only been going for two years; you've barely started. There are people here who have been researching stuff for decades and are still not there.

Good luck.

APL

(PS. As a thirty year migraine sufferer who's worked in IT for twenty of those years; watch the screen time. Stop and walk away for a few minutes every hour at the very most. Really.)

[conjohn]

This is Roman Krejci's site:

http://isr.cudlici.com/

It contains a lot of hillclimb results - e.g. European Hillclimb Championship 1956 - 2003.

[macoran]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Irony is so difficult to get right in writing. How did I do?

10/10 Allen

[D-Type]

Why will no one give up results?

(1) Perhaps if you ask like this person did giving a reason why you are asking then people would be more helpful.

(2) Mountain hillclimbs was not something that British drives regularly competed in. It would be a reasonable assumption that there was little interest in the results. The British magazines might publish a report if they received one but would not go out of their way to report every event in detail. for example if Denis Jenkinson attended a hillclimb between GPs then there would be a report in Motor Sport but not otherwise. As this is an English-language forum it will follow that members probably genuinely don't have the data. You would probably be better off asking on a French, Italian or German forum as there was probably more published in those languages.

[911rsl]

thx - for the help!

Roman Krejci's site:

http://isr.cudlici.com/


i see this person is trying to put together Swiss Gt results for the 70's.

and European Hillclimb Championships for 70's also.

hopefully it will be added to.

lots of entries - less clarification of finishes sorted out so far. he's probably working on it (especially labeling class)

thx - again to all !