27 replies to this topic

[shaun979]

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by shaun979

Dont know about now but when you went through your apprenticeship as a mechanic in Oz, they show you movies of exploding tyres including the resulting dead bodies. In my industrial area, Slacks Creek, Brisbane, about 1990 one Guy got it when he was inflating a truck tyre, left the air on and went to answer the phone came back at the same moment it went bang and took his head off. Its now law in Oz that they must be inflated in a steel cage.

[McGuire]

Well first, tires do not actually explode. The video shows a motorcycle inner tube being inflated until it bursts, not a tire, and that kid working the air hose is a pussy. The face shield is a good idea as you could possibly scratch your eye, but the rubber from an "exploding" inner tube will not even break your skin.

Large truck tires are caged for repair not because the carcass is likely to "explode" but because they often use multi-piece wheels and the lock ring can take off if it is not seated properly -- and it can indeed travel with sufficient force and velocity to take your head off. (Very rare but also known to happen: the bead "ring" detaching itself from a one-piece rim due to corrosion.)

But a truck tire ordinarily carries from 75 to 125 PSI, while a typical commercial air compressor can do around 150-175 PSI, so if you are going to "explode" the tire via overinflation the first thing you will need is a lot of patience, like until hell freezes over. That said, you still need to have some idea what you are doing... in the US military a solider was killed recently when he attempted to inflate an aircraft tire (not a truck tire) using a compressed air bottle with around 2500 PSI on it.

But in anything like normal conditions, car and truck tires do not "explode." They can't -- they don't contain enough energy. You can take a mounted and fully inflated truck tire and cut if straight off the rim with a hacksaw with no drama at all. Your 95-lb girlfriend can slash all four tires on your car with a steak knife in total safety. A tire "explodes" in much the same manner as a paper bag or a toy balloon -- that is to say, not really.

[shaun979]

Mcguire, lighten up it's just a funny video. I don't think you need to help anyone differentiate between a tire and tube..

[Canuck]

I went to school with Steve, who learned first hand about the potential energy of an inflated tire. He'd been working after school in the tire shop for ages so when the new guy was fighting with a tire, he went over to help him out. The rim was still on clamped on the tire machine and he was struggling to get it beaded properly. As Steve was looking at the tire and rim sitting there, his co-worker pumped a solid (apparent)70psi into it, still not beaded. Steve pointed out that the new guy had installed the wrong tire on the wrong rim - a 16" tire will of course not bead on a 16.5" rim - at which point the tire launched itself straight up catching Steve in the chin as it went by on it's upwardly mobile tragectory. The perfect donut-shaped dent is still in the steel roof of that tire shop and Steve still sports the scar under his chin. Tires may well not explode per se, but there's a tremendous amount of energy in there.

[Bruce302]

I have worked in the tyre business in my own shops, doing everything from wheelbarrow to truck, tactor and implement tyres, and I can tell you that they can and do explode. often they will be damaged and the damage cannot be seen.
But when they explode they are pretty frightening, and deafening. Remember that a tractor rear tyre may have a 30 psi working pressure, Answer the phone while the inflator takes it to 130 and more, and it's toast.
130 psi, over every sq inch equals a lot of force.
I have seen a pic of the imprint in a roof that was left by a person standing over a tractor tyre when it went.
He died instantly. The brain splatter was like a shotgun effect.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Canuck


I went to school with Steve, who learned first hand about the potential energy of an inflated tire. He'd been working after school in the tire shop for ages so when the new guy was fighting with a tire, he went over to help him out. The rim was still on clamped on the tire machine and he was struggling to get it beaded properly. As Steve was looking at the tire and rim sitting there, his co-worker pumped a solid (apparent)70psi into it, still not beaded. Steve pointed out that the new guy had installed the wrong tire on the wrong rim - a 16" tire will of course not bead on a 16.5" rim - at which point the tire launched itself straight up catching Steve in the chin as it went by on it's upwardly mobile tragectory. The perfect donut-shaped dent is still in the steel roof of that tire shop and Steve still sports the scar under his chin. Tires may well not explode per se, but there's a tremendous amount of energy in there.

That's the whole point: to understand the real dangers, not to confuse and frighten people with phony dangers. If, for example, you are standing there like a ninny waiting for the tire to "explode," you are now totally oblivious to the real menace just about to be inflicted upon you, which is at the rim bead -- in the trajectory zone, as it is called in the industry -- and can occur at normal pressures just as you pointed out. Mixing a 16" tire with a 16.5" wheel was once one of the more well-known hazards and has often proven fatal. Your friend is lucky he was not killed, truly.

What is this "trajectory zone"?


When servicing any uncaged wheel/tire assembly, do not be there. That is where you get hurt. When servicing the wheel assembly, the safe place to be standing is out around the circumference of the tire. That is the safe area because for one thing, tires do not "explode." If the tire's carcass does burst, it is not going to harm you. There pressure is being rapidly released... but at the bead, tremendous pressure and force are being focused over a tiny area -- and that is where the danger lies.

[Catalina Park]

I knew a bloke that could get tyres to explode. But he had to fill them with acetylene first.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Bruce302
I have worked in the tyre business in my own shops, doing everything from wheelbarrow to truck, tactor and implement tyres, and I can tell you that they can and do explode. often they will be damaged and the damage cannot be seen.
But when they explode they are pretty frightening, and deafening. Remember that a tractor rear tyre may have a 30 psi working pressure, Answer the phone while the inflator takes it to 130 and more, and it's toast.
130 psi, over every sq inch equals a lot of force.
I have seen a pic of the imprint in a roof that was left by a person standing over a tractor tyre when it went.
He died instantly. The brain splatter was like a shotgun effect.

Never inflate any tire unattended. How obvious is that? If nothing else one should have some respect for one's customers. The very first consequence of over-inflation is damage to the tire carcass.

That said, tires do not "explode," not in any real sense of the term. Do the math. In a explosion, air and fragments are propelled at a rate of 1000 to 9000 meters per second and up. A tire cannot hold enough energy in the form of pressurized air to produce a true explosion. It will exceed its burst limit well before that. The real point of danger is at the bead, where tremendous force is concentrated.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
I knew a bloke that could get tyres to explode. But he had to fill them with acetylene first.

Here in the states all the fix-a-flat type products were once flammable, which has produced some interesting shop moments (but not really "explosions"). Some of them still are flammable, but now in the most popular brand, the inflator gas is basically the same stuff Ferrari supposedly uses.

[Catalina Park]

This bloke once blew up a big earthmoving inner tube. He did it way out in the bush. He used oxy and acetylene to fill it up and then set a timing device to blow it up. He retreated to the nearest hotel (about 20 miles away) so that when the bang happened nobody would suspect it was him.
It went BANG! They heard it in the pub. It left a big crater. It registered on the seismographs. It made the news across Australia. But they couldn't explain it!

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Bruce302
I have seen a pic of the imprint in a roof that was left by a person standing over a tractor tyre when it went.
He died instantly. The brain splatter was like a shotgun effect.

Well, that's the thing. It has been proven time and again: Scary stories do not scare people into working safely. We can bet this guy heard all the scary stories too. You don't work on a tractor tire/wheel assembly uncaged or unchained, and you NEVER stand over it when servicing it. But this guy did, because he didn't think it would happen to him. There is no story gory or scary enough. You can tell him the tire is full of TNT and that will not stop him because he knows somewhere in his conciousness that this is not true. He will cut corners when he thinks he can get away with it, based upon his knowledge and experience. And there is the key word: knowledge.

Shop people are above all practical people. Give them true and real info they can use, and they will use it. Safety is not bullshit. If you turn safety into bullshit that's how people will treat it. Safety is knowledge. End of tiresome lecture.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
This bloke once blew up a big earthmoving inner tube. He did it way out in the bush. He used oxy and acetylene to fill it up and then set a timing device to blow it up. He retreated to the nearest hotel (about 20 miles away) so that when the bang happened nobody would suspect it was him.
It went BANG! They heard it in the pub. It left a big crater. It registered on the seismographs. It made the news across Australia. But they couldn't explain it!

Australians have an unusual sense of humor... much like Americans I think. Wherever there are gas bottles around here, there are usually tennis ball cannons. Much fun.

[Bill Sherwood]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
I knew a bloke that could get tyres to explode. But he had to fill them with acetylene first.

The Icelanders do something like that to reseat those big off-road tyres used on their 4WD's.
They run very low pressures and sometimes they'll pop a tyre off the wheel. To fix this, they get a lighter refill can and spray some into the gap between the tyre bead and rim. Then light it with a ciggie lighter and BOOM!
The tyre blows itself back onto the wheel nicely.

[McGuire]

And here I thought only Canadians did that.

[Bruce302]

As in many industries, we played the risks. We knew the odds, and to save time we would not use cages and chains. And it is not an industry that attracts high intelect in the first place.

Lets change the word explode. The SUDDEN release of contained air can cause serious injury, and it doesn't always come from the bead. "Zippers" tear them selves apart at the shoulder area. We are trained to listen for this before it happens. Sidewalls can blow out due to underinflation, the damaged cords not visible. There are no warnings on that, apart from the fact that damage may have occured prior to the punture repair they came in for.
Yes, in a perfect world we use all the safety gear and practices and we don't get hurt. I never was, but I have had some short term hearing damage. Shortcuts are taken in every environment.

[dosco]

Originally posted by Bruce302
Shortcuts are taken in every environment.

And therefore we can thank our lucky stars that lawyers are here to sue the everliving shot out of employers who let that kind of thing happen. Outstanding.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by dosco


And therefore we can thank our lucky stars that lawyers are here to sue the everliving shot out of employers who let that kind of thing happen. Outstanding.

In the USA (also AU and CN) you cannot sue your employer for an injury on the job. Strange but true, and it is amazing how many people don't know that. In law this principle is known as the Compensation Bargain.

In return for a reliable and insured form of compensation for injured workers, you have given up up your ordinary civil rights to pursue torts originating with your employer. Not even if the boss is drunk and backs his car over you in the driveway. You would have to prove that he was deliberately trying to kill or injure you, which is virtually impossible. To become "whole" again you must file a claim with the relevant state workers compensation agency. (Many people think these laws were enacted to protect workers. Well perhaps, but mainly to indemnify and limit the liability of employers.)

Which also means you cannot seek punitive damages or claims for pain and suffering, as you could in a normal civil case. If your claim is successful, they simply calculate how much $$$ you were going to make over the rest of your working life in your most recent position, and then pay you somewhere between 20% and 100% of that figure in a structured periodic settlement. That is the most you can get, called "permanent total disability." You can appeal their decisions, but there is no other or higher recourse. Where does this money come from? Depending on the state, the company may pay into an insurance fund, or it may be self-insuring. If it is the latter, be prepared for the fight of your life.

Again, strange but true: A pedestrian walking through the building has more rights and protection under the law than an employee. (If he slips in a puddle at least he has recourse.) Typically, the only way an employee can sue anyone for an injury on the job is to go after the manufacturer of the equipment he was operating, if it can be shown that it substantially contributed to the injury. And in case you were wondering, yes the company can cancel your medical insurance if you are injured on the job. There is no law that says they had to furnish you with any in the first place, hmm.

[McGuire]

Some may find this amusing, but in my state you can't get 100% permanent disability for losing only one arm.

[dosco]

Originally posted by McGuire
In the USA (also AU and CN) you cannot sue your employer for an injury on the job. Strange but true, and it is amazing how many people don't know that. In law this principle is known as the Compensation Bargain.

Not my point (although I appreciate the education).

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
This bloke once blew up a big earthmoving inner tube. He did it way out in the bush. He used oxy and acetylene to fill it up and then set a timing device to blow it up. He retreated to the nearest hotel (about 20 miles away) so that when the bang happened nobody would suspect it was him.
It went BANG! They heard it in the pub. It left a big crater. It registered on the seismographs. It made the news across Australia. But they couldn't explain it!

Balloon bombs are easy, but as with the tyre bombs you need 80/90% oxy and only 20/10% acetylene to ignite it. Most go 50/50 and get poor result. You need some sort of wick/fuse, I use a sheet of newspaper and rool it then tie it to the bottom of the ballon. This is dangerous, if you do it get at least 100 yards/meters away and cover your ears. A number of times I have let 1 go and have had police arrive not long after.

And then theres the dry ice in the plastic coke bottle, small amount of dry ice in the bottom, fill enough to cover the ice with water, screw the cap on fast and throw it away faster!

When hammer drilling for coal with air, we were very careful to check all fittings ets, when fluid lets go it releases its energy quickly but when big volumes of air let go, run for the hills, heavy 2" steel braided air lines whiipping everywhere is a very scary experience.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by dosco


Not my point (although I appreciate the education).

Just saying... if one is hoping to work a personal injury scam, don't do it at work. No money there; the employer is almost totally indemnified and holds all the cards.

My advice would be to slip and fall in a restaurant or department store. A broken leg there can be worth an easy five figures in out-of-court settlement. But on the job there is no such thing as pain and suffering and you will be lucky to get your medical bills paid. The claims procedure is deliberately made as byzantine as possible and also involves a complex dance of subrogation with your medical insurer.

I guess the more serious point is that if you work with your hands, be sure to carry private disability insurance. It will save your ass.

[dosco]

Originally posted by McGuire
Just saying... if one is hoping to work a personal injury scam, don't do it at work. No money there; the employer is almost totally indemnified and holds all the cards.

Then I guess it's a good thing I'm not thinking of a personal injury scam.

I guess the more serious point is that if you work with your hands, be sure to carry private disability insurance. It will save your ass.

My point was a poorly-executed tongue-in-cheek about the plethora of OSHA regulations supposedly regulating Personal Protective Equipment.

FWIW, indeminification won't stop a cranky employee from slapping a lawsuit on a company. My last employer preferred to settle out of court rather than duke it out in the courtroom ... which on principle, really pissed me off. OTOH, I can see the "dollar and cents" side of the equation and could understand why they did what they did.

[McGuire]

I love OSHA to death. If you could look back and see what shops and factories were like before OSHA compared to what they are today, there really is no comparison. Cleaner, brighter, safer by orders of magnitude... so either plant managers have become more highly evolved in only a few years, or OSHA produced these changes. Actually that last part was tongue-in-cheek. I believe attitudes really have changed over the last three decades, and I believe OSHA had a lot to do with that. Today employers often take actual pride in producing the safest and cleanest workplace they can, and it sure didn't use to be that way.

This here is an OSHA-approved tire inflation cage. If you are servicing HD truck and equipment tires, the Federal government says you must have one of these in your facility. (The govt. can't require workers to use it, or require employers to make workers use it.) As you can see, the cage would be of no use if a tire carcass were to "explode" (deflecting only the larger chunks) but fortunately, it will do what it is designed to do: keep the wheel halves and rings in the neighborhood if they decide to take off. This, coupled with a clip-on air chuck and an inline gauge, mean you never have to place yourself in the line of fire.




Back in the day, the workman would take a long length of heavy chain and run it though the spokes and around the tire all about the circumference, then bolt the chain together at the ends. Still done that way in some parts, like out in the field. That was the only safe way to service a multi-piece wheel -- especially the old multi-piece Dayton wheel, the one with the silver-painted rim and black cast-iron spokes. (Known in the trucking industry as the "widow maker".) You can see the cage is a lot more efficient and saves time and money for the business.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by dosco

FWIW, indeminification won't stop a cranky employee from slapping a lawsuit on a company. My last employer preferred to settle out of court rather than duke it out in the courtroom ... which on principle, really pissed me off.

In the USA you can sue your employer for all sorts of things, including sexual harrassment, age/ethnic/gender discrimination, fraud, breach of contract, and improper checkoff, but you cannot sue your employer for an injury on the job. That is the law.

[OfficeLinebacker]

Here's a chilling video, that contains the very images from the "trajectory" post.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Since everyone has a story, I used to work in a shop where we let the public use an air hose to fill their tires.

This happened before my time, but the dents in the ceiling are still there...truck tire, dumb, determined guy. He died instantly. You can fill in the blanks.

God am I lucky.

[phantom II]

I want to see pictures of dead people. My brother is a mining engineer and he sends some pretty gruesome pictures to me sometimes. Ever heard of the Darwin Awards? They can only be awarded posthumously.





There I was putting air into my hockey puck tire on my Metro at 3.5 BAR instead of 35psi. the other day.
It went whoosh when it split along the center of the tread. I said to myself, "Oh blast." Oh bother".
Fortunately I was over the road from Pep Boys and they put two tires on the front. $50. No ****.

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker
Here's a chilling video, that contains the very images from the "trajectory" post.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Since everyone has a story, I used to work in a shop where we let the public use an air hose to fill their tires.

This happened before my time, but the dents in the ceiling are still there...truck tire, dumb, determined guy. He died instantly. You can fill in the blanks.

God am I lucky.

[OfficeLinebacker]

Originally posted by phantom II
I want to see pictures of dead people.

Me, too. But that was the closest I could get from 5 minutes on youtube.

What's the story behind those pics?