22 replies to this topic

[coco]

I found a nice photo of a Maserati Tipo 61, painted in red with start-no. 93 in Cumberland 1963. Does anybody know who the driver was and the s/n of the car? Willem...?

Ciao!
Walter

[Derwent Motorsport]

The only place it could be here in Cumbria would be at the Barbon Hill Climb or possibly the long lost event at Leighton Hall. Having said that both of those would have been in Westmorland rather than Cumberland in 1963.
Unless we are looking at Cumberland in the USA?
Can we see the picture for clues?

[Sharman]

There is a Gap in our knowledge, perhaps Lonnie Donegan could have answered the question but he has gone on down the Rock Island Line

[Vitesse2]

You're a cruel b***er, Sharman!

Walter is of course referring to the Cumberland Airport track in the USA.

[coco]

Originally posted by Vitesse2


Walter is of course referring to the Cumberland Airport track in the USA.

Yup - that`s Walter doing!

Ciao!
Walter

[Jerry Entin]

Coco:
If it is indeed Cumberland, Maryland, that car would be chassis 2469, the former George Humiston Tipo 61, then owned by Dick Bair. On May 13, 1962 he finished 8th in the feature. Today the car resides in the Indianapolis Speedway Museum.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

[raceannouncer2003]

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
Coco:
If it is indeed Cumberland, Maryland, that car would be chassis 2469, the former George Humiston Tipo 61, then owned by Dick Bair. On May 13, 1962 he finished 8th in the feature. Today the car resides in the Indianapolis Speedway Museum.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

So this would be the ex-Krause Riverside winner from 1960 and ex-Chuck Sargent? This photo is apparently from 1963, but same car as 1962?

http://www.nationalr...&cat=547&page=4

Another photo apparently from 1963, another T61? If so, which one?

http://www.nationalr...&cat=547&page=1

Vince H.

[coco]

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
Coco:
If it is indeed Cumberland, Maryland, that car would be chassis 2469, the former George Humiston Tipo 61, then owned by Dick Bair. On May 13, 1962 he finished 8th in the feature. Today the car resides in the Indianapolis Speedway Museum.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

Thanks Willem. Its the ex-Cunningham car then.

Ciao!
Walter

[CoulthardD]

Anyway, Barbon Manor is in North Yorkshire...

DC

[raceannouncer2003]

Originally posted by coco
Thanks Willem. Its the ex-Cunningham car then.

Ciao!
Walter

I understood 2469 was the ex-Krause/Sargent car, and that Briggs Cunningham had T60/61 2459, 2462, and 2468.

Vince H.

[coco]

Originally posted by raceannouncer2003


I understood 2469 was the ex-Krause/Sargent car, and that Briggs Cunningham had T60/61 2459, 2462, and 2468.

Vince H.

...ooops! Vince, you are right! My mistake!

Ciao!
Walter

[Jerry Entin]

Coco: As Vince has stated and you have acknowledged Briggs Cunningham never had anything to do with this car. It was first owned by George Humiston of Maserati Reps of Beverly Hills. Bill Krause won the 1960 Tmes GP for them in 2469. From there it went to Chuck Sargent.

Vince: Good catch, Bair also raced the same Birdcage with the same race number one year later at Cumberland. It was May 12, 1963, this time and the car was entered as a Zerex Special, just like Penske's winning Zerex Special [the Cooper]. It dropped out after a few laps.
The second photo is not a Birdcage. It is Bud Gates' Apache, a modified Lister/Buick.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

[etceterini.com]

This car was owned by my Father, Jack Reuter, in the late 1960's.
Here are a couple of period photos of it:






Here is an illustration Jack did of the car:

[coco]

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
Coco: As Vince has stated and you have acknowledged Briggs Cunningham never had anything to do with this car. It was first owned by George Humiston of Maserati Reps of Beverly Hills. Billy Krause won the 1960 Tmes GP for them in 2469. From there it went to Chuck Sargent.

Vince: Good catch, Bair also raced the same Birdcage with the same race number one year later at Cumberland. It was May 12, 1963, this time and the car was entered as a Zerex Special, just like Penske's winning Zerex Special [the Cooper]. It dropped out after a few laps.
The second photo is not a Birdcage. It is Bud Gates' Apache, a modified Lister/Buick.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

Willem, I have as 1st owner Harry Finer! When came Sargent and Bair in the game? The later I have in 1961 as owner. Seems not correct.

Ciao!
Walter

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by CoulthardD
Anyway, Barbon Manor is in North Yorkshire...

DC

Since when? According to my MSA Blue Book it is in Cumbria!

The only good thing to come out of Yorkshire is the road to Lancashire!

[CoulthardD]

Yikes! You're right, Steve.

I thought the water tasted funny. Have they been messing about with the borders again?

DC

[Derwent Motorsport]

If we are going to be pedantic then in the sixties Barbon was in Westmorland and there are those down that way who think Westmorland should be revived.

[Jerry Entin]

Coco:
You think the first owner was Harry Finer because Joel Finn wants you to believe that. Harry Finer did not take over Maserati Reps of Beverly Hills until the Spring of 1961. By then agency founder George Humiston had already sold chassis 2469 to Chuck Sargent, so Finer was never involved with this car. Bill Krause won the race at Riverside in 1960.
all research Willem Oosthoek.
Etceterini : Thank you so much Cliff for sharing the interesting photos from your dads family album. Great stuff! This is what makes the forum so great being able to share our photos and stories with fellow members and their friends and others interested in motor racing history.

[coco]

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
Coco:
You think the first owner was Harry Finer because Joel Finn wants you to believe that. Harry Finer did not take over Maserati Reps of Beverly Hills until the Spring of 1962. By then agency founder George Humiston had already sold chassis 2469 to Chuck Sargent, so Finer was never involved with this car. Bill Krause won the race at Riverside in 1960.
all research Willem Oosthoek.
Etceterini : Thank you so much Cliff for sharing the interesting photos from your dads family album. Great stuff! This is what makes the forum so great being able to share our photos and stories with fellow members and their friends and others interested in motor racing history.

Ahhh...the "typical" Finn-error!! OK, thanks for clearification. But when came Dick Bair to the car?

Ciao!
Walter

[Jerry Entin]

CoCo: Last race for Chuck Sargent in chassis 2469: Stockton on April 15, 1962, 1st overall
The First race for Dick Bair with 2469: Cumberland on May 13, 1962, 8th overall.
Dear CoCo, we assume you will be able to draw you own conclusion?
all research Willem Oosthoek.

[etceterini.com]

We always thought the car finished first at the 1961 Riverside??

[Jerry Entin]

Cliff: In 1961 Jack Brabham won the Riverside Times Grand Prix in a Cooper Monaco and Bruce McLaren his Cooper teammate was second. In 1960 the Birdcage won with Bill Krause and second was Bob Drake in Ol Yaller 2.

[coco]

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
CoCo: Last race for Chuck Sargent in chassis 2469: Stockton on April 15, 1962, 1st overall
The First race for Dick Bair with 2469: Cumberland on May 13, 1962, 8th overall.
Dear CoCo, we assume you will be able to draw you own conclusion?
all research Willem Oosthoek.

Yeah Willem -- I will..."be able"............!

Thanks for your kindness.......!

Walter