Jump to content


Photo

Maserati Birdcage?


  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

#1 MOTOFORZA

MOTOFORZA
  • New Member

  • 8 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 09 February 2008 - 17:48

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Anyone who knows the story of this special "Birdcage" ?

Do you know about websites from Birdcage drivers of our time ?

Kind regards Vagn. DENMARK

Advertisement

#2 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 8,327 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 09 February 2008 - 17:55

Presumably some Maserati enthusiat's idea of the ultimate road car? Interesting to note it is left-hand drive, so presumably built to be used on the road - otherwise, if you were creating a "lookalike", surely you would have made it right-hand drive.

#3 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,402 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 09 February 2008 - 19:11

Motoforza:

Wish I did know something, but you've off to a good start for a newbie with an interesting question. I bet Jerry Entin's friend Willem will know something, so let's see.

Nice photos and technical data BTW.

Where were the photos taken? Gearshift looks different too.

#4 coco

coco
  • Member

  • 166 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 09 February 2008 - 21:30

Originally posted by Alan Cox
Presumably some Maserati enthusiat's idea of the ultimate road car? Interesting to note it is left-hand drive, so presumably built to be used on the road - otherwise, if you were creating a "lookalike", surely you would have made it right-hand drive.

This car has nuttin`to do with the real thing! Its crap!

Ciao!
Walter

#5 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,402 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 09 February 2008 - 21:49

Walter:

Details please?

Thank you.

#6 macoran

macoran
  • Member

  • 3,989 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 09 February 2008 - 23:10

Love your 500s and midget site !! :up:

#7 coco

coco
  • Member

  • 166 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 09 February 2008 - 23:33

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Walter:

Details please?

Thank you.

David,
we all know that the original Birdcage had a 4-cyl.-engine fitted and was RHD. This...something...has a Quattroporte I engine with 4.2-liter capacity installed and that alone is totally GaGa!!

To my humble Maserati knowledge not one of the known and genuine chassis has such stupid combination fitted! Even the 2 "not so good" T60/61 have correct 4-cyl.-engines fitted!

If someone wants to build a correct Birdcage replica -and there are 2 examples existing!- he can get a perfect replica motor in the UK and in Germany.

This ..."thing" is based on the idea "I want to have such a car but I don`t have the cash!"

Enrico would do better to ignore such "ideas" on his otherwise nice website where this "Birdcage of the little man" wa published!

My 2 cts!

Ciao!
Walter

#8 Jean L

Jean L
  • Member

  • 274 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 10 February 2008 - 00:51

It is a scale model,not a real car.

#9 MOTOFORZA

MOTOFORZA
  • New Member

  • 8 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 10 February 2008 - 06:12

It is a scale model,not a real car.


If this is a scale model, I suggest you to buy new glasses.
On the link you can see the car in a bigger way !
http://img.photobuck...rza/PowerV8.jpg

I can`t understand why some people has such a negativ attitude, in my view, I see the car as an exciting alternativ !

There much be someone out there, who knows the answer !
Come on "Sherloch Holmes" !

Have a nice day ! Vagn.

#10 SWB

SWB
  • Member

  • 239 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 10 February 2008 - 08:50

Anyone who knows the story of this special "Birdcage" ?



Well it isn't a Tipo 60/61 (just about every tube is wrong, suspension mounts are wrong, not to mention it is left hand drive) so its not like somebody has squeezed a bigger engine in during the sixties. None of the Maserati artistry is evident in the workmanship, and I think you can see the texture of a fibreglass bonnet! I would say it is a home made special, and that is the ONLY thing that is special.

#11 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 6,404 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 10 February 2008 - 09:15

Originally posted by Jean L
It is a scale model,not a real car.

Exactly. A 1:1 scale model. (the best type!) :cool:

#12 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,672 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 10 February 2008 - 13:43

:wave: So for all who loves the real ones , its not a birdcage but a crapcase ! :smoking:

#13 Paul Parker

Paul Parker
  • Member

  • 2,141 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 10 February 2008 - 15:46

I think the comments are unnecessarily harsh.

This is self evidently a road car engined 'special' in the style of... creation. Nobody can confuse it with the real thing.

There are a lot of these replicas (sic) and lookalikes all over the world.

Numerous ersatz C types, D types, XKs, Aston DBR2s, Maser 450S, Datsun based 250GTOs, Cobras, even fake 300SLRs with 6 cylinder production car Merc engines and so on ad nauseam.

So let's not be so judgemental, it is just another special of thousands produced down the decades and no doubt is the source of some happiness and matter of pride for the person(s) who built it.

#14 Jerry Entin

Jerry Entin
  • Member

  • 5,394 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 10 February 2008 - 16:10

Hear hear, Paul. It is obvious that the builder of this special did not try to fool anybody, that his construction was a real Tipo 60/61. And from the one photo posted, it looks like there was definitely craftsmanship involved. A number of U.S. specials in the 60s copied the Tipo 60/61 bodylines as well. And later in real life Tipo 61s, had other engines installed: Ferrari, Buick and Ford.
In addition, to the best of my knowledge the word Birdcage is not protected. Since a Birdcage-type frame was used, plus a V8 Maserati engine, a whimsical name of Birdcage/Maserati could be used on this construction. There is no way this car could be confused with the real thing. As long as the builder does not call it a Tipo 60 or 61.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

#15 Mistron

Mistron
  • Member

  • 930 posts
  • Joined: June 05

Posted 10 February 2008 - 17:10

I agree. It may not be to the purists taste, but I'm sure whoever built it is rightly pleased with the outcome of his efforts, and who are we to judge.

Personally, I think it looks like a decent bit of engineering, and it's certainly evokes the spirit of the original more than a VW engined Teal Bugatti or such like.

Good on whoever built it, I say. It's a lot harder to build this sort of thing than it is to criticise it

Or, as an older generation would say
"if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything"

#16 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 8,327 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 10 February 2008 - 17:21

Originally posted by Mistron
and it certainly evokes the spirit of the original more than a VW engined Teal Bugatti or such like.


Couldn't agree more. As has been said, it doesn't appear to be masquerading as a Tipo 60/61 and may not be to everyone's taste but it looks to have been reasonably well engineered, from what one can see in the photo, although the rake of the steering wheel doesn't look quite right.

#17 Hackrider

Hackrider
  • New Member

  • 12 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 10 February 2008 - 19:16

I believe that I saw this car at the Italian Car Fest in Dallas Tx last September. The person said he took the Chevy small block out when he found this motor/trans, if I remember correctly. There may be pics on their web site.

Posted Image

Hack



#18 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 10 February 2008 - 19:47

Ah! The Birdcage Listerati :lol:

#19 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 8,327 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 10 February 2008 - 22:15

Originally posted by Hackrider
I believe that I saw this car at the Italian Car Fest in Dallas Tx last September.


Oh, that's a shame. Doesn't look so convincing from that angle

Advertisement

#20 raceannouncer2003

raceannouncer2003
  • Member

  • 2,673 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 11 February 2008 - 02:27

Originally posted by Hackrider
I believe that I saw this car at the Italian Car Fest in Dallas Tx last September. The person said he took the Chevy small block out when he found this motor/trans, if I remember correctly. There may be pics on their web site.

Posted Image

Hack


Yes, there are several albums on their website with photos of the car. Scan down to find links to albums and photos:

http://italiancarfest.com/

One photo showed a closeup of a plaque on the dash which identified the builder as Bobby Brummett. Looks okay to me...it would be...interesting!...to drive. Found a photo on this webpage:

http://www.mirafiori...07/spring07.htm

Vince H.

#21 MOTOFORZA

MOTOFORZA
  • New Member

  • 8 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 11 February 2008 - 07:59

Thank you all !
Posted Image
Thank you for helping me, to find out a little bit more about Bobby´s replica.
Click the photo, then you will see Bobby beside his welldone sportscar.
( I`m also for the original Birdcage)

Kind regards Vagn.

#22 coco

coco
  • Member

  • 166 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 11 February 2008 - 09:26

Originally posted by MOTOFORZA
Thank you all !
Posted Image
Thank you for helping me, to find out a little bit more about Bobby´s replica.
Click the photo, then you will see Bobby beside his welldone sportscar.
( I`m also for the original Birdcage)

Kind regards Vagn.

Welldone? Even the lines are not correct!

Ciao!
Walter

#23 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,672 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 11 February 2008 - 11:47

Coco as it is in NO way a Birdcage , the lines must be OK!

#24 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,991 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 11 February 2008 - 12:27

Walter,

I see no need to get worked up about this car - it is an honest "In the spirit of ..." fun car, like a "Panther De Ville"; it is not an attempt to make a "Perfect replica of.. " like Walkinshaws "Buggatti Royale replica" or the Cameron Millar 250Fs. I don't think it is even meant to be a a "looks like ..." partial replica like the Lynx "D-Type Jaguar", Chris Rea "Sharknose", countless "Cobras" etc.

It is certainly no "Fake GTZ". There is no attempt to pass it off as the real thing. It looks as if the owner isn't even claiming that it's a Maserati

#25 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 32,608 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 11 February 2008 - 12:31

Originally posted by D-Type
Walkinshaws "Buggatti Royale replica"

Justifying your sig again, Duncan? :p :lol:

The TW who built a replica Royale is Tom Wheatcroft.;)

#26 David Beard

David Beard
  • Member

  • 4,997 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 11 February 2008 - 12:31

Originally posted by Paul Parker
This is self evidently a road car engined 'special' in the style of... creation. Nobody can confuse it with the real thing.

There are a lot of these replicas (sic) and lookalikes all over the world.


Evidently the correct term nowadays for this sort of creation is an "evocation"

Ref this Porsche 917....

http://www.handhclas...9962&aucid=5458

#27 coco

coco
  • Member

  • 166 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 11 February 2008 - 12:54

Originally posted by D-Type
Walter,

I see no need to get worked up about this car - it is an honest "In the spirit of ..." fun car, like a "Panther De Ville"; it is not an attempt to make a "Perfect replica of.. " like Walkinshaws "Buggatti Royale replica" or the Cameron Millar 250Fs. I don't think it is even meant to be a a "looks like ..." partial replica like the Lynx "D-Type Jaguar", Chris Rea "Sharknose", countless "Cobras" etc.

It is certainly no "Fake GTZ". There is no attempt to pass it off as the real thing. It looks as if the owner isn't even claiming that it's a Maserati

Folks,
to make one thing clear: I have nothing against replicas - as long as they are correctly (visually and technically!) done and as long as nobody claims them as original(s). Last monday I saw an -almost- perfect 450S-replica under work in Italy. Correct gear-driven V8, transaxle, suspension, instruments etc....everything as with the real cars. That was very impressive.

If someone wants a "fun-car" or "Hot-Rod" -well, that`s OK. But I think when he wants to catch his "inspiration" from the original thing (body etc.) he has to make it right. Yep, numerous "450S-fake-a-do`s" equipped with standart Ghibli V8-engines etc. are going wild on this planet - but none of them looked right. Its the same as someone wants to paint again the Mona Lisa. If you do it right its "...OK...!(well....)" but if not it looks ....stupid!

Ciao!
Walter "van Gogh"

#28 David Shaw

David Shaw
  • Member

  • 1,730 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 11 February 2008 - 13:10

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I have no qualms with somebody building something 'inspired' by an existing car, and if they think that the lines can be enhanced, good on them. Who are we to say it should look exactly like the inspiration? Cars like this are often thought to look ugly just because they don't look like what we perceive that they should.

#29 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 8,792 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 11 February 2008 - 14:06

Originally posted by David Shaw
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Cars like this are often thought to look ugly just because they don't look like what we perceive that they should.


The example that inspired this thread would look one hell of a lot better without the bonnet bulge, eye of the beholder indeed. Other than that, it's a bit of fun and probably the builder/owner's pride and joy, he isn't fooling anyone, so no real harm done.

#30 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,991 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 11 February 2008 - 14:44

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Justifying your sig again, Duncan? :p :lol:

The TW who built a replica Royale is Tom Wheatcroft.;)

:blush: Well I have a reputation to live down to, don't I?

#31 Red Socks

Red Socks
  • Member

  • 519 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 11 February 2008 - 15:16

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Exactly. A 1:1 scale model. (the best type!) :cool:


Sorry, but I understand that a model has to be of something-what is this scale model of exactly?

#32 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 11 February 2008 - 15:23

I take the rather unfashionably Libertarian view that if the creator/owner of this vehicle happens to want something that's vaguely like a Birdcage, and enjoys it, and isn't trying to pass it off as something it isn't, fair play to him. It's only when a fake becomes a replica becomes a pukka car that I start to reach for the DSJ revolver of authenticity.

Then again my dream car is probably a Rover P5B coupe with decent suspension and a modern V8 engine and transmission, I've always liked Q cars ;)

#33 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,672 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 11 February 2008 - 17:03

Sorry to interrupt , I have some points I like to get rid of :

1. Sorry to the opener of the thread , I overlooked the question mark !

2. Sorry to the builder of the vehicle , you are of course as shown free to build whatever....

3. It is not a Maserati

4. It is not a Birdcage (Maserati)

5. I feel its wrong to put a Maserati label /logo on a lookalike!

PS1. The US boys in the old days also put anything into everything and/or modified it , or vice/versa !

PS2. Hope this is accectable Paul !

#34 David Shaw

David Shaw
  • Member

  • 1,730 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 11 February 2008 - 20:13

Originally posted by kayemod
The example that inspired this thread would look one hell of a lot better without the bonnet bulge, eye of the beholder indeed.


Oh I agree wholeheartedly. The bulge is especially ugly to me and I'm not a big fan of the rest of it either.

#35 T54

T54
  • Member

  • 2,489 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 12 February 2008 - 20:34

Jeeez, are some being worked out. So the guy enjoyed making his own idea of what he likes, big fat deal. It's his money, not yours! If it hurts your sensibilities, please wear dark sunglasses. However, there is one thing I strongly disagree with:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


That is the biggest lie on planet Earth. :)
Regards,

T54

#36 David Shaw

David Shaw
  • Member

  • 1,730 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 12 February 2008 - 21:08

Why is it a lie?

#37 T54

T54
  • Member

  • 2,489 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 12 February 2008 - 21:28

I should have said that the statement is true and the end result is deception. :)

#38 bbrum

bbrum
  • New Member

  • 2 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 05 March 2008 - 17:28

Originally posted by MOTOFORZA
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Anyone who knows the story of this special "Birdcage" ?

Do you know about websites from Birdcage drivers of our time ?

Kind regards Vagn. DENMARK



#39 bbrum

bbrum
  • New Member

  • 2 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 05 March 2008 - 17:57

Originally posted by bbrum


Thank you to: Paul Parker, Jerry Entin, Mistrom, Petefenelon and others who posted postive statements about my car and especially Vagn at MOTOFORZA who is a fine gentleman.

As you can see by the previous reply, I'm not a computer person.

Bobby Brummett

Advertisement

#40 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,402 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 05 March 2008 - 20:38

Thanks Bobby!

#41 kashbiddle

kashbiddle
  • New Member

  • 1 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 11 March 2008 - 17:59

I have seen Bobby's "creation" in person. The engineering and build is top-notch. The sound of the V-8 motor and side-pipes is almost like a large block cobra replica. The first thing out of Bobby's mouth is that "I built it". He has never said it is an original maserati. He told me the story about how he drew the frame out on a piece of paper and "just built it". I find that truly amazing that a human being can do that. I am a family doctor and i have to buy my cars finished because i truly suck at mechanical problems. I have found this to be a funny "thread" because of the amount of emotion put into some of your comments. This is just a car guys.

The funniest statement i have read is something like "it's like he wanted a maserati but couldn't afford one". I make a very nice salary and my wife is a pharmacist and makes a nice salary. If a family doctor and a pharmacist can't afford a maserati tipo it goes to say that the "average joe" in america can't afford one either. (i am not trying to be rude but just trying to make a point) There are over 40,000 replica shelby cobras in the u.s. Most people just can't afford original cars.

Cars are kinda like wives guys. No one really wants your true opinion on what his wife looks like and they don't really want your real opinion about what their car looks like. So be polite and compliment the good in everyone's car and just turn the other cheek about the things you don't like. That is really the "right" thing to do. And unless you actually own a maserati tipo don't be so arrogant to trash someone's maserati "replica". And if you are rich enough to actually own a maserati tipo you probably wouldn't be wasting your time reading this thread.

Respectfully,

kash biddle
oklahoma

#42 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,402 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 11 March 2008 - 18:10

Well said Kash. :up:

Like I said, I think he did a fun project that I appreciate his effort.

#43 HDonaldCapps

HDonaldCapps
  • Member

  • 2,482 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 11 March 2008 - 19:59

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Well said Kash. :up:

Like I said, I think he did a fun project that I appreciate his effort.


Absolutely! I have to add my "Me, too!" to these gentlemen's remarks.

Once upon what Mr. Brum has done would have brought smiles and nods to those who looked upon his creation. One big reason for those smiles and nods would be that he actually just went out and did something fun, created a car that was his original creation, inspired by whatever entered his imagination and takes pride in it. Just take the the time to read the back issues of R&T, SCI, SCG or what have you. That someone would do this today is really pretty neat, much like experiencing a time warp.

I will not deign to address some of the comments made, but I am beginning to question the focus of some of the lords of the realm here. Indeed, I often wonder how long the inmates have been running the asylum.

#44 rdrcr

rdrcr
  • Member

  • 2,715 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 11 March 2008 - 20:27

I don't understand the negativity surrounding this car. Is it because Mr. Brummett used a Maserati engine? I gotta say, even though the overall esthetics don't quite do it for me, the quality of the build looks great and the engineering execution seems top-notch. (Love that engine!) This example is just what we were talking about in that Replica Thread - there is no claim of authenticity here - in fact, the opposite appears true.

Some of you never heard of a hot rod? A hot rod is an agglomeration of parts to make the owner happy tooling down the road. Seems like Bob has achieved his goal.

Critics :rolleyes:

It's always easier to throw stones at a house than it is to build one.

#45 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 6,404 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 12 March 2008 - 06:38

I love the car. It is a great thing and looks like a lot of fun. :)

#46 Sputter

Sputter
  • New Member

  • 1 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 29 July 2009 - 16:19

I love the car. It is a great thing and looks like a lot of fun. :)


Having seen the car up close and heard the full details of how it was built. I must say it is more Maserati than anything else... the engine - real, the body - real, the wheels - real, the frame - nope.

In fact it kind of made me sick to know that the body was a real birdcage body that the owner messed with in order to make a streetable car. I saw pictures of it prior to it being cut on and the original body lacked any headlights nor did it have that monsterous hood scoop on it. Those things were add-ons which if you removed would make the car look much more like the original.

As for the frame, I understand the owners thinking. The owner used to race cars years ago and was never pleased with the amount of upkeep you had to do on a bird cage (constantly checking each joint and re-welding them when they loosened) and wanted something he could drive without fail... in that respect I understand.

In fact I can accept the addon headlights (though i think some molded lexan would make it look at bit better... but that monsterous hood scoop looks like it was taken off a old Camaro street racer.

#47 Ted Walker

Ted Walker
  • Member

  • 1,432 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 30 July 2009 - 07:09

Would like to see the photos of the original body prior to modification to know which car it came from.

#48 prociw123

prociw123
  • New Member

  • 1 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 18 August 2009 - 20:05


Coco
Can you please let me know which UK outfit produce a replica Birdcage

#49 Ted Walker

Ted Walker
  • Member

  • 1,432 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 19 August 2009 - 07:48

Pretty sure that Crosthwaite & Gardner based in Sussex would build you a "new birdcage"

#50 Michael_Delaney

Michael_Delaney
  • Member

  • 41 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 19 August 2009 - 11:52

Coco
Can you please let me know which UK outfit produce a replica Birdcage

Ted already mentioned it: Crosthwaite & Gardner would be the 1st adress!

MD

Edited by Michael_Delaney, 19 August 2009 - 11:53.