MotoGP & WorldSBK 2008 (merged)
#3801
Posted 01 November 2008 - 22:27
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#3802
Posted 01 November 2008 - 22:35
With all due respect, that´s your opinion.Originally posted by Ben
It's not nonsense. When Dani and Casey moved up you had Dovi and Lorenzo who could beat those guys who were clearly capable of running at the front in MotoGP. Dovi and Lorenzo were then in a class of their own with only Kallio, Aoyama and Bautista occasionally winning.
For Bautista then to struggle so much against a guy (Simoncelli) who'd never looked at all capable prior to this season makes it very hard to assess the overall level. That's not to say he couldn't cut it in MotoGP, mearly to say that you'd be less confident than in Lorenzo this year.
Ben
I have watched this sport for over 40 years and I know a good ´un when I see one. It´s absolutely unimportant what he did in 2007. Riders develop and it´s totally unfair to judge them other than on their current form, and on that basis, I rate Marco as one of the best around, irrespective of class. He has developed far more than any one else this year. He also has that killer instict all champions are born with. He will move to the 800 class and he will win there as well. Wait and see.
#3803
Posted 01 November 2008 - 22:41
#3804
Posted 01 November 2008 - 22:56
Originally posted by Ben
Stoner won races against Pedrosa, Dovi and Lorenzo. Second in the championship with those guys is arguably a better achievement than beating Kallio and Bautista - it was far from a vintage year.
Simoncelli received works equipment only after the first races. He started the year as an outsider. Nobody ever recovered a 49 points deficit to take the 250 crown. Yet Kallio gets a 800 and Simoncelli not. However it's not always about small class titles when it comes to the premier class crown. Stoner never won a small class yet he won the premier class. With Pedrosa it's the other way round.
Btw it's always a pleasure to discuss with you. Your knowledge is quite impressive.
#3805
Posted 01 November 2008 - 22:59
Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer
Nobody ever recovered a 49 points deficit to take the 250 crown. Yet Kallio gets a 800 and Simoncelli not.
It's not as though Kallio isn't deserving of the seat though. He's driven fantastically for the past two years, on a KTM that isn't as good as the Piaggio bikes.
#3806
Posted 01 November 2008 - 23:06
Originally posted by Rob
It's not as though Kallio isn't deserving of the seat though. He's driven fantastically for the past two years, on a KTM that isn't as good as the Piaggio bikes.
Certainly. That said Simoncelli's results this year seem more impressive. At least to me.
#3807
Posted 01 November 2008 - 23:10
#3808
Posted 02 November 2008 - 08:25
Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
Sorry Ben, but that´s just nonsense. Every year looks weak when the cream move up. But if you knew what you were looking at, you would know that Simoncelli is a class act. He is probably the best 250 champ since Rossi. I just know time will prove me right.
If Simoncelli was "that" good, you dont think Piaggio would have made sure he was on afactory bike from the opening race of the season.
this will put his perceived talents into perspective.
Season Class Moto Races Win Podiums Pole FLap Pts Position
2002 125cc Aprilia 6 0 0 0 0 3 33rd
2003 125cc Aprilia 15 0 0 0 0 31 21st
2004 125cc Aprilia 13 1 1 2 0 79 11th
2005 125cc Aprilia 16 1 6 1 1 177 5th
2006 250cc Gilera 16 0 0 0 0 92 10th
2007 250cc Gilera 17 0 0 0 0 97 10th
2008 250cc Gilera 16 6 12 7 4 281 1st
Dani and Rossi had 2 world titles by year 4.
That said Sete went from a "good" rider to a race winner suddenly when Kato died, maybe something gelled with Simoncelli that stopped him falling off. He certainly was the cream of the crop this year.
#3809
Posted 02 November 2008 - 09:27
Regards
Andy
#3810
Posted 02 November 2008 - 09:49
#3811
Posted 02 November 2008 - 10:18
Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
With all due respect, that´s your opinion.
I have watched this sport for over 40 years and I know a good ´un when I see one. It´s absolutely unimportant what he did in 2007. Riders develop and it´s totally unfair to judge them other than on their current form, and on that basis, I rate Marco as one of the best around, irrespective of class. He has developed far more than any one else this year. He also has that killer instict all champions are born with. He will move to the 800 class and he will win there as well. Wait and see.
I totally agree that riders do develop and I'm not saying Simoncelli isn't developing or won't become a MotoGP standard rider. I was simply pointing out that it is fairly obvious why he hasn't got a 2009 MotoGP ride and that is because, prior to this season he didn't look good enough. Gilles has helpfully provided the statistics to highlight this.
If he backs up this year with wins next year I'm sure he'll get a shot in 2010. MCN is reporting this week that they might put him on on of the Tech 3 bikes. That would be deserved provided this year wasn't a fluke.
Ben
#3812
Posted 02 November 2008 - 10:42
Great that the FIA puts the last F1 race of the year in Brazil so there is no conflict on what to watch
Regards
Andy
#3813
Posted 02 November 2008 - 11:47
Bayliss was just fantastic, he dominated this race. And the track gets a major:
#3814
Posted 02 November 2008 - 12:59
Great race by Hayes. Is he really without a ride for 2009?
Any ideas what Hayes did to piss Sofoglou off to such an extent?
Edit: It seems Keenan doesn't like people fighting for their position :
#3815
Posted 02 November 2008 - 14:20
Brendan Roberts 4 riders that could have won the title, that's racing. No news of what Roberts is doing in 2009, another prospect like Canepa, skip everything and go straight to motogp?
Interesting to see what happens with the likes of Pirro, he is a Brivio protogee and has been the fastest Yamaha this season.
Polita going straight from SuperStock to Superbikes.
1 ROBERTS Brendan (AUS) 147
2 BERGER Maxime (FRA) 140
3 POLITA Alessandro (ITA) 137
4 SIMEON Xavier (BEL) 136
5 PIRRO Michele (ITA) 102
Nice to see Schumie chatting to the riders on the Superbike grid, arranging a football match with Biaggi.
#3816
Posted 02 November 2008 - 15:11
I love this track, who says all new tracks have to be flat and lifeless.
Haslam podium
Unbelievable that Corser gets 2nd in the championship. Hasn't appeared to be the 2nd best rider out there.
#3817
Posted 02 November 2008 - 15:29
Thanks for everything mate, it's the end of an era.
#3818
Posted 02 November 2008 - 15:43
#3819
Posted 02 November 2008 - 15:50
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#3820
Posted 02 November 2008 - 15:53
Watching him blasting that Ducati over the years has been a pleasure, I will miss him. Nothing in World SBK has been better than watching him and Haga wheel to wheel . I didn't feel the same way about Fogarty when he retired.
Well done to Haslam.
I would have black flagged Keenan for being such an idiot about Josh Hayes. Hayes seemed to do nothing wrong apart from try to keep a slower bike in front. Good job he's not in MotoGp with Rossi then
Lovely track, they ought to do MotoGp there.
Regards
Andy
#3821
Posted 02 November 2008 - 16:04
#3822
Posted 02 November 2008 - 16:04
#3823
Posted 02 November 2008 - 16:05
#3824
Posted 02 November 2008 - 16:07
Originally posted by FordFan
The Bayliss/Edwards battle in WSK was probably the most remarkable season I can think of in motorsports.
Agreed - not to mention the most amazing final race of a season.
#3825
Posted 02 November 2008 - 16:27
Troy leaves the sport in style
#3827
Posted 02 November 2008 - 19:13
The owner of the circuit, Paulo Pinheiro made a small speech, largely inaudible due to the sound of the traffic leaving, but the ceremony was all the more moving and private, perhaps for the very reason that it was cut off from the rest of the world by the noise.
Just how impromptu the ceremony had been was made clear by the sudden arrival of Troy Corser, still in his leathers, straight from his post-race debriefing. Corser was greeted warmly by the family, and it was clear from his demeanor that the tragic loss of Jones had affected him personally.
#3828
Posted 02 November 2008 - 22:39
Thanks for the memories Troy. You will be missed mate.
#3829
Posted 02 November 2008 - 23:13
[b][u]Rider Poles Races Podiums Wins 2nd 3rd FL Title[/b][/u] Fogarty C. 21 220 109 59 33 17 48 4 Bayliss T. 26 152 94 52 29 13 35 3 Corser T. 42 305 128 33 47 48 44 2 Haga N. 6 232 87 33 29 25 45 0 Edwards C. 15 175 75 31 24 20 23 2Troy better than Carl...? Maybe - his win rate per race (33%) and podium rate (61%) is better than Carl's. It just goes to show he should have won in 2002.
Also really hope that Haga can win the championship next year. That zero at the end of his line really stands out.
Note that Toseland is #9 in the list.
#3830
Posted 03 November 2008 - 02:30
Obviously everyone has seen it by now but here it is . . .Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
[B]
He has a new livery? All I have seen is the number is 2+1 instead of 21
#3831
Posted 03 November 2008 - 02:33
Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
Pitt's worst nightmare. Sofoglou comes back to the team and immediately owns the class.
Great race by Hayes. Is he really without a ride for 2009?
Any ideas what Hayes did to piss Sofoglou off to such an extent?
Edit: It seems Keenan doesn't like people fighting for their position :
We've heard that Hayes is coming back to the states to race for the Yamaha factory. That sort of make sense since Eric Bostrom has officially retired.
I am also very concerned that no one has scooped up Brendan Roberts. He is too old for SStk. Will he team with Smrz? Replace Lanzi? I just have a hard time seeing Ducati let him go without putting him on a satellite team.
#3832
Posted 03 November 2008 - 03:26
Originally posted by markr
Obviously everyone has seen it by now but here it is . . .
this picture is just so OOF...
#3833
Posted 03 November 2008 - 03:33
Originally posted by maczippy
this picture is just so OOF...
What does "OOF" mean?
#3834
Posted 03 November 2008 - 05:27
the track is awesome just saw the race. You will be missed Troy. wsbk is awesome. I hope other series will go there. Tilke needs to take a page out of that guys book and design something like that.Originally posted by markr
What does "OOF" mean?
#3835
Posted 03 November 2008 - 06:12
Originally posted by markr
What does "OOF" mean?
it means out of focus
and as for getting tilk do do something like the guy who designed the Portugeese circuit, why not hire him instead
#3836
Posted 03 November 2008 - 06:30
Originally posted by markr
Obviously everyone has seen it by now but here it is . . .
Rumour has it Ducati will be releasing that as a limited edition Bayliss Replica.
#3837
Posted 03 November 2008 - 11:52
Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
Rumour has it Ducati will be releasing that as a limited edition Bayliss Replica.
That's what the guys were saying on the telecast here in Oz.
Bayliss deserves several replicas! (But I'm biased).
#3838
Posted 03 November 2008 - 12:01
Originally posted by philhitchings
it means out of focus
and as for getting tilk do do something like the guy who designed the Portugeese circuit, why not hire him instead
The Istanbul circuit has similar undulations and sweepers to the Portimao track. Portimao obviously has the advantage that it's a place where someone might actually want to visit, but that's more Bernie's territory than Herr Tilke's. I'm not entirely sure why people place so much emphasis on the track's designer, anyway. They're pieces of road, not sonnets or sculptures. Even John Hugenholtz designed some terrifically dull circuits.
Many of the best circuits, like Cadwell or the Nurburgring or Zandvoort or Spa, just "fell into place", as Wikipedia puts so well (for once). When you're given some scrubland outside of Shanghai or Madrid or Valencia, a classic venue is not going to magically spring up. Expediency -- working around public roads, the contours of the land, and unfortunate obstacles, seems to create a track's 'character' far more than the design of any architect.
#3839
Posted 03 November 2008 - 12:12
Originally posted by armchair expert
That's what the guys were saying on the telecast here in Oz.
Bayliss deserves several replicas! (But I'm biased).
Ducati models for 2009
DUCATI 1098 R Bayliss Limited Edition
Troy Bayliss is a Ducati legend. In celebration of his victory in the 2008 World Superbike Championship aboard the 1098 R, and the end of a career that proudly claims three World Championships aboard three generations of Ducati Superbike, the factory have built a 1098 R Bayliss Limited Edition.
Enjoying exactly the same high specification as the standard ‘R’ model, the 1098 R Bayliss Limited Edition has a special colour scheme designed by Aldo Drudi. The livery, which was used during Troy’s final race at Portimao in Portugal, incorporates the key colours of his success. Sporting the famous number ‘21’ on the pearl white nose and side-fairing number plates, the red and white paint scheme uses the dark blue background of the Australian national flag to blend beautifully along the side of the bodywork and into the unpainted carbon fibre stripe along the seat unit. This attention to fine detail is also evident in features like the carbon lower-fairing finished in red, except for aerodynamic recess for the side-stand, which remains natural carbon fibre. A subtle ‘1098 R Bayliss Limited Edition’ graphic on the tail fairing leaves no doubt as to what this magnificent bike is.
The striking design contrasts perfectly against the 5-spoke wheels finished in matte black and additional special features like the carbon fibre heat shield on the exhaust.
The 1098 R Bayliss Limited Edition will be limited to only 500 units and comes with a numbered plaque on the top fork clamp, indicating exactly where in the limited edition the motorcycle was built. The number also corresponds to a numbered commemorative desk-top plaque, beautifully encased for safe keeping and bearing the engraved signatures of Ducati Motor Holding CEO Gabriele Del Torchio and Ducati Corse triple World Superbike Champion, Troy Bayliss.
In addition, the model will be supplied with a full racing exhaust system including 102dB carbon fibre mufflers by Termignoni (strictly for track use only), a dedicated ECU, branded bike cover and rear paddock stand.
What better way to mark the incredible career of Troy Bayliss than by Ducati building the 1098 R Bayliss Limited Edition.
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#3840
Posted 03 November 2008 - 22:02
Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
Ducati models for 2009
Thanks. It will look great without all the sponsor's logos.
#3841
Posted 04 November 2008 - 12:22
Originally posted by armchair expert
Thanks. It will look great without all the sponsor's logos.
#3842
Posted 05 November 2008 - 00:07
oh i must admit... i cackled with glee at times
#3843
Posted 05 November 2008 - 00:27
#3844
Posted 05 November 2008 - 01:22
It looks fantastic.