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MotoGP & WorldSBK 2008 (merged)


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#3801 Atreiu

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 22:27

I have no opinion on the depth of the 250 through the years. The only thing I know is that having a Moto GP field of 19 bikes is far from enough for all the talented riders out there, IMHO.

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#3802 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 22:35

Originally posted by Ben


It's not nonsense. When Dani and Casey moved up you had Dovi and Lorenzo who could beat those guys who were clearly capable of running at the front in MotoGP. Dovi and Lorenzo were then in a class of their own with only Kallio, Aoyama and Bautista occasionally winning.

For Bautista then to struggle so much against a guy (Simoncelli) who'd never looked at all capable prior to this season makes it very hard to assess the overall level. That's not to say he couldn't cut it in MotoGP, mearly to say that you'd be less confident than in Lorenzo this year.

Ben

With all due respect, that´s your opinion.
I have watched this sport for over 40 years and I know a good ´un when I see one. It´s absolutely unimportant what he did in 2007. Riders develop and it´s totally unfair to judge them other than on their current form, and on that basis, I rate Marco as one of the best around, irrespective of class. He has developed far more than any one else this year. He also has that killer instict all champions are born with. He will move to the 800 class and he will win there as well. Wait and see.

#3803 TwoCents

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 22:41

Another year in 250cc won't do him any harm at this stage, but as a 250cc champion I hope he will at least be given a chance in MotoGP in the near future to prove himself.

#3804 Bernd Rosemeyer

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 22:56

Originally posted by Ben
Stoner won races against Pedrosa, Dovi and Lorenzo. Second in the championship with those guys is arguably a better achievement than beating Kallio and Bautista - it was far from a vintage year.


Simoncelli received works equipment only after the first races. He started the year as an outsider. Nobody ever recovered a 49 points deficit to take the 250 crown. Yet Kallio gets a 800 and Simoncelli not. However it's not always about small class titles when it comes to the premier class crown. Stoner never won a small class yet he won the premier class. With Pedrosa it's the other way round.

Btw it's always a pleasure to discuss with you. Your knowledge is quite impressive.

#3805 Rob

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 22:59

Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer
Nobody ever recovered a 49 points deficit to take the 250 crown. Yet Kallio gets a 800 and Simoncelli not.


It's not as though Kallio isn't deserving of the seat though. He's driven fantastically for the past two years, on a KTM that isn't as good as the Piaggio bikes.

#3806 Bernd Rosemeyer

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 23:06

Originally posted by Rob


It's not as though Kallio isn't deserving of the seat though. He's driven fantastically for the past two years, on a KTM that isn't as good as the Piaggio bikes.


Certainly. That said Simoncelli's results this year seem more impressive. At least to me.

#3807 philhitchings

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 23:10

there are plenty around who like and respect him; including me. But clearly not the right people...

#3808 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 08:25

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer

Sorry Ben, but that´s just nonsense. Every year looks weak when the cream move up. But if you knew what you were looking at, you would know that Simoncelli is a class act. He is probably the best 250 champ since Rossi. I just know time will prove me right.


If Simoncelli was "that" good, you dont think Piaggio would have made sure he was on afactory bike from the opening race of the season.

this will put his perceived talents into perspective.

Season Class Moto Races Win Podiums Pole FLap Pts Position
2002 125cc Aprilia 6 0 0 0 0 3 33rd
2003 125cc Aprilia 15 0 0 0 0 31 21st
2004 125cc Aprilia 13 1 1 2 0 79 11th
2005 125cc Aprilia 16 1 6 1 1 177 5th
2006 250cc Gilera 16 0 0 0 0 92 10th
2007 250cc Gilera 17 0 0 0 0 97 10th
2008 250cc Gilera 16 6 12 7 4 281 1st

Dani and Rossi had 2 world titles by year 4.

That said Sete went from a "good" rider to a race winner suddenly when Kato died, maybe something gelled with Simoncelli that stopped him falling off. He certainly was the cream of the crop this year.

#3809 Andy35

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 09:27

Well one more year not in MotoGP should give us a clearer understanding so I'll sit on the fence for the moment. He does remind me a bit of Rossi, but that might be just the physique and colour scheme influencing me. Looking forward to todays Superbike race at this new track, lack of knowledge seems to be helping the Brits.. :up: :cool:

Regards

Andy

#3810 carbonfibre

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 09:49

Yep the new track looks amazing, looking forward to the races as well, a shame though it will be the last 2 races again for this year, the dark period is here again, no F1, no MotoGP, no WSBK. :(

#3811 Ben

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 10:18

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer

With all due respect, that´s your opinion.
I have watched this sport for over 40 years and I know a good ´un when I see one. It´s absolutely unimportant what he did in 2007. Riders develop and it´s totally unfair to judge them other than on their current form, and on that basis, I rate Marco as one of the best around, irrespective of class. He has developed far more than any one else this year. He also has that killer instict all champions are born with. He will move to the 800 class and he will win there as well. Wait and see.


I totally agree that riders do develop and I'm not saying Simoncelli isn't developing or won't become a MotoGP standard rider. I was simply pointing out that it is fairly obvious why he hasn't got a 2009 MotoGP ride and that is because, prior to this season he didn't look good enough. Gilles has helpfully provided the statistics to highlight this.

If he backs up this year with wins next year I'm sure he'll get a shot in 2010. MCN is reporting this week that they might put him on on of the Tech 3 bikes. That would be deserved provided this year wasn't a fluke.

Ben

#3812 Andy35

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 10:42

Just watched the first race at the track and it really does undulate especially considering the tv normally flattens out the hills and dips. Looking forward to the first race, expect the HM Plant guys and Rae to mix it up and maybe be a bit too enthusiastic.

Great that the FIA puts the last F1 race of the year in Brazil so there is no conflict on what to watch :)

Regards

Andy

#3813 carbonfibre

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 11:47

Biaggi should have punched Fabrizio KO there. :down: The second time this year that he rides Biaggi off the road, and besides that he also ruins Baiggi's end standing (although that wasnt so great but still).

Bayliss was just fantastic, he dominated this race. And the track gets a major: :up: :up: :clap:

#3814 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 12:59

Pitt's worst nightmare. Sofoglou comes back to the team and immediately owns the class.

Great race by Hayes. Is he really without a ride for 2009?

Any ideas what Hayes did to piss Sofoglou off to such an extent?

Edit: It seems Keenan doesn't like people fighting for their position :

#3815 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 14:20

Great SuperStock 1000 season again.

Brendan Roberts :clap: 4 riders that could have won the title, that's racing. No news of what Roberts is doing in 2009, another prospect like Canepa, skip everything and go straight to motogp?

Interesting to see what happens with the likes of Pirro, he is a Brivio protogee and has been the fastest Yamaha this season.

Polita going straight from SuperStock to Superbikes.

1 ROBERTS Brendan (AUS) 147
2 BERGER Maxime (FRA) 140
3 POLITA Alessandro (ITA) 137
4 SIMEON Xavier (BEL) 136
5 PIRRO Michele (ITA) 102

Nice to see Schumie chatting to the riders on the Superbike grid, arranging a football match with Biaggi.

#3816 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 15:11

Thank you for the show Mr Bayliss :clap: :clap:

I love this track, who says all new tracks have to be flat and lifeless.

Haslam podium :clap:

Unbelievable that Corser gets 2nd in the championship. Hasn't appeared to be the 2nd best rider out there.

#3817 TwoCents

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 15:29

I raise my glass to Troy Bayliss :up: :kiss:

Thanks for everything mate, it's the end of an era.

#3818 carbonfibre

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 15:43

Yep great race again by Bayliss. Im having the same feeling as with schumachers retirement. Still so fast and good why stop? But i guess there is a time to call it a day.

#3819 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 15:50

There was an interview somewhere this week where he said he was tired, too much effort to stay on the edge physically and mentally. IIRC Scumie said the same thing when he retired

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#3820 Andy35

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 15:53

Troy Bayliss. Great rider, great career, great man :up:

Watching him blasting that Ducati over the years has been a pleasure, I will miss him. Nothing in World SBK has been better than watching him and Haga wheel to wheel . I didn't feel the same way about Fogarty when he retired.

Well done to Haslam.

I would have black flagged Keenan for being such an idiot about Josh Hayes. Hayes seemed to do nothing wrong apart from try to keep a slower bike in front. Good job he's not in MotoGp with Rossi then :rolleyes:

Lovely track, they ought to do MotoGp there.

Regards

Andy

#3821 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 16:04

I liked the track a lot, especially the elevation changes, would be interesting to see a car race round there to see if it can provide great racing on four wheels as well as two. Stunning to watch the field going round one of the corners which was at a blind crest.

#3822 Atreiu

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 16:04

Is the track really that good?

#3823 FordFan

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 16:05

The Bayliss/Edwards battle in WSK was probably the most remarkable season I can think of in motorsports.

#3824 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 16:07

Originally posted by FordFan
The Bayliss/Edwards battle in WSK was probably the most remarkable season I can think of in motorsports.


Agreed - not to mention the most amazing final race of a season.

#3825 ehagar

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 16:27

Attaboy Josh Hayes!!

Troy leaves the sport in style :up:

#3826 philhitchings

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 16:51

The man himself
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In action
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I was touched when he made his comments about the last bike

#3827 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 19:13

Craig Jones Honored In Portimao :(

The owner of the circuit, Paulo Pinheiro made a small speech, largely inaudible due to the sound of the traffic leaving, but the ceremony was all the more moving and private, perhaps for the very reason that it was cut off from the rest of the world by the noise.

Just how impromptu the ceremony had been was made clear by the sudden arrival of Troy Corser, still in his leathers, straight from his post-race debriefing. Corser was greeted warmly by the family, and it was clear from his demeanor that the tragic loss of Jones had affected him personally.



#3828 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 22:39

Awesome display by the man, Troy Bayliss. :up:
Thanks for the memories Troy. You will be missed mate.

#3829 smithy

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 23:13

I think this is up to date


[b][u]Rider		Poles   Races	Podiums	Wins   2nd	3rd   FL   Title[/b][/u]

Fogarty C.	21	  220	   109	   59	 33	 17   48	 4

Bayliss T.	26	  152		94	   52	 29	 13   35	 3

Corser T.	 42	  305	   128	   33	 47	 48   44	 2

Haga N.		6	  232		87	   33	 29	 25   45	 0

Edwards C.	15	  175		75	   31	 24	 20   23	 2
Troy better than Carl...? Maybe - his win rate per race (33%) and podium rate (61%) is better than Carl's. It just goes to show he should have won in 2002.

Also really hope that Haga can win the championship next year. That zero at the end of his line really stands out.

Note that Toseland is #9 in the list.

#3830 markr

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 02:30

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
[B]

He has a new livery? All I have seen is the number is 2+1 instead of 21

Obviously everyone has seen it by now but here it is . . .

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#3831 markr

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 02:33

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
Pitt's worst nightmare. Sofoglou comes back to the team and immediately owns the class.

Great race by Hayes. Is he really without a ride for 2009?

Any ideas what Hayes did to piss Sofoglou off to such an extent?

Edit: It seems Keenan doesn't like people fighting for their position :


We've heard that Hayes is coming back to the states to race for the Yamaha factory. That sort of make sense since Eric Bostrom has officially retired.

I am also very concerned that no one has scooped up Brendan Roberts. He is too old for SStk. Will he team with Smrz? Replace Lanzi? I just have a hard time seeing Ducati let him go without putting him on a satellite team.

#3832 maczippy

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 03:26

Originally posted by markr


Obviously everyone has seen it by now but here it is . . .

Posted Image


this picture is just so OOF...

#3833 markr

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 03:33

Originally posted by maczippy


this picture is just so OOF...


What does "OOF" mean?

#3834 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 05:27

Originally posted by markr


What does "OOF" mean?

the track is awesome just saw the race. You will be missed Troy. wsbk is awesome. I hope other series will go there. Tilke needs to take a page out of that guys book and design something like that.

#3835 philhitchings

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 06:12

Originally posted by markr


What does "OOF" mean?


it means out of focus

and as for getting tilk do do something like the guy who designed the Portugeese circuit, why not hire him instead

#3836 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 06:30

Originally posted by markr


Obviously everyone has seen it by now but here it is . . .

Posted Image


Rumour has it Ducati will be releasing that as a limited edition Bayliss Replica.

#3837 armchair expert

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 11:52

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


Rumour has it Ducati will be releasing that as a limited edition Bayliss Replica.


That's what the guys were saying on the telecast here in Oz.

Bayliss deserves several replicas! (But I'm biased). :)

#3838 Risil

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 12:01

Originally posted by philhitchings


it means out of focus

and as for getting tilk do do something like the guy who designed the Portugeese circuit, why not hire him instead


The Istanbul circuit has similar undulations and sweepers to the Portimao track. Portimao obviously has the advantage that it's a place where someone might actually want to visit, but that's more Bernie's territory than Herr Tilke's. I'm not entirely sure why people place so much emphasis on the track's designer, anyway. They're pieces of road, not sonnets or sculptures. Even John Hugenholtz designed some terrifically dull circuits.

Many of the best circuits, like Cadwell or the Nurburgring or Zandvoort or Spa, just "fell into place", as Wikipedia puts so well (for once). When you're given some scrubland outside of Shanghai or Madrid or Valencia, a classic venue is not going to magically spring up. Expediency -- working around public roads, the contours of the land, and unfortunate obstacles, seems to create a track's 'character' far more than the design of any architect.

#3839 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 12:12

Originally posted by armchair expert


That's what the guys were saying on the telecast here in Oz.

Bayliss deserves several replicas! (But I'm biased). :)


Ducati models for 2009

DUCATI 1098 R Bayliss Limited Edition

Troy Bayliss is a Ducati legend. In celebration of his victory in the 2008 World Superbike Championship aboard the 1098 R, and the end of a career that proudly claims three World Championships aboard three generations of Ducati Superbike, the factory have built a 1098 R Bayliss Limited Edition.

Enjoying exactly the same high specification as the standard ‘R’ model, the 1098 R Bayliss Limited Edition has a special colour scheme designed by Aldo Drudi. The livery, which was used during Troy’s final race at Portimao in Portugal, incorporates the key colours of his success. Sporting the famous number ‘21’ on the pearl white nose and side-fairing number plates, the red and white paint scheme uses the dark blue background of the Australian national flag to blend beautifully along the side of the bodywork and into the unpainted carbon fibre stripe along the seat unit. This attention to fine detail is also evident in features like the carbon lower-fairing finished in red, except for aerodynamic recess for the side-stand, which remains natural carbon fibre. A subtle ‘1098 R Bayliss Limited Edition’ graphic on the tail fairing leaves no doubt as to what this magnificent bike is.

The striking design contrasts perfectly against the 5-spoke wheels finished in matte black and additional special features like the carbon fibre heat shield on the exhaust.

The 1098 R Bayliss Limited Edition will be limited to only 500 units and comes with a numbered plaque on the top fork clamp, indicating exactly where in the limited edition the motorcycle was built. The number also corresponds to a numbered commemorative desk-top plaque, beautifully encased for safe keeping and bearing the engraved signatures of Ducati Motor Holding CEO Gabriele Del Torchio and Ducati Corse triple World Superbike Champion, Troy Bayliss.

In addition, the model will be supplied with a full racing exhaust system including 102dB carbon fibre mufflers by Termignoni (strictly for track use only), a dedicated ECU, branded bike cover and rear paddock stand.

What better way to mark the incredible career of Troy Bayliss than by Ducati building the 1098 R Bayliss Limited Edition.



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#3840 armchair expert

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 22:02

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


Ducati models for 2009



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Thanks. It will look great without all the sponsor's logos.

#3841 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 12:22

Originally posted by armchair expert


Thanks. It will look great without all the sponsor's logos.


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#3842 pingu666

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 00:07

man the racing and the circuit was fantastic, AND the eurosport stuff i downloaded had onboard stuff, haga's bike must of been half camera :D, first time in a looong time theyve had onboard cameras i think?

oh i must admit... i cackled with glee at times :D

#3843 LukeM

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 00:27

such a pity Bayliss is retiring, i have always loved SBK's even more than MotoGP but without Troy there will be a big hole!

#3844 armchair expert

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 01:22

Thanks Gilles :up:
It looks fantastic. :cool: