23 replies to this topic

[Fulvia-hf]

Hello,
I'm a new member on this wonderfull forum. Never read so much about classic transporters and the like.
If someone can help me with my quest for info I'm sure It can only come from this forum!
Since a couple of years I'm the owner of a 1965 Lancia Superjolly van. This lancia attempt to build (and sell) comercial vehicles was bound to fail as the Superjolly was even more comples as the Flavia passenger car is was derived from.
To name a few technical features.
Watercooled flat four 1800cc all alloy 90Hp boxer engine. Fully sychronised 4 speed gearbox. also alloy,
frontwheel drive. Dunlop diskbrakes all round with two calipers per each front wheel. Two remote brake servos. One operating 4 calipers and the other the second calipers on both front wheels. Hydraulic brake limiting devise on the rear leafspring shackle. Removable front subrame carrying all mechanical components and the front suspension. Front suspension by a transverse leaf and double wishbones. leafspring attaches to the upper wishbone by means of a roller (same principle adopted by the works for the Fulvia HF rally cars).
the result was a van with a loadlimit of 1000kg weighing 1700Kgs and having a top speed of 135Kmh!
Little wonder cesare Fiorio chose this fast van to be their service van and rally car transporter during the second half of the 60s. It wasn't all haleluia because the cars complexity caused it to brake down almost as much as the Fulvia HFs almost needing its own service van to keep it going!
As the owner of a very nice and rare 1200 HF I would like to restore my van in the official lancia Squadra corse livery, wich in my believe was white with dark (lancia) blue. I'm not sure however since I yet have to see a color picture of this van. It would be great to enter club events with this van towing a trailer with my HF on it.
Can anybody help me with a picture of the lancia Superjolly assistance van, preferably in service, which I can use to finish my 'replica' car transporter?
Very kind regards,
William.
PS I have a b/w picture available but do not know how to upload it to this message

[Red Socks]

Don't write off Lancia commercial vehicles; they had been producing them since the first world war and made a hugely sucessful and innovative range of trucks and busses for nearly fifty years. Lancia engineers in the truck division in Bolzano were just as clever, and wonderful, as the car division.
Your van has been around for years and there should be plenty of pix of it at work.

[RS2000]

A photo might jog my memory, since it's almost a total blank, despite having been around them on the RAC Rally 68 onwards. Unreliability might explain why we had to help the works HFs several times when no one else was there! In the depths of Kielder I taped up a cracked distributor cap on Kallstrom's car and checked a leaking radiator level with Aaltonen - who showed a complete disregard for the effects of suddenly removing the rad cap on a hot engine. I was also present the year they robbed the main bearings from one car at Machynlleth to keep the leading car going.
All I can really recall at the moment is later Martini vans but something suggests to me that the earlier vans might have been the same red as the rally cars on one occasion in late 60s.
I only understand Imageshack - "Browse" to find photos on your PC, "Host it" to upload, then click Edit and Copy the "Thumbnail for forums" or a forum-suitable link below that and Paste into your reply. I'm sure there is a guide or someone will give a better explanation than computer illiterate types like me.
There is a photo of the rally cars on the 68 RAC on the "Personal photos from the rally stage, road and service area" thread about 4 pages down from here but no vans.

[macoran]

Off Topic, bur thanks for posing your question.....I googled up some fab info on Lancia powered
Formula Juniors...just by googling Lancia Superjolly.

[RTH]

MG tried to relive the 1931 MG 'M' type High Speed Service van again with this version of the ZR hatchback

http://www.xpowerfor...m/MG_ZR_Van.htm

The original was based on one of these

http://www.britishta.../gallery/mg.jpg

[Red Socks]

I don't think this van was competition support, as I recall it was the Lancia works van out of the Alperton depot in the late sixties and early seventies.It was indeed white and Lancia blue and was used for running spares about London. Lancia made getting on for 3000 of these vans with first the 1500 Flavia engine and later the 1800 engine.

[flat-16]

If I recall correctly, the UK-based Lancia dealer, Richard Thorne, had a 'Jolly Van' for sale a few months back. I'm going purely from memory, but if it weren't Thorne, his company will probably be able to steer you in the direction of the dealer that had it.

You should also drop Guy Moerenhout an email - he will definitely know about these vans (he might even have photos on his site - it's a big site with a lot of photos - happy searching!).


GM site - http://www.abarth-gmr.be/

Justin

[flat-16]

Originally posted by Red Socks
I don't think this van was competition support, as I recall it was the Lancia works van out of the Alperton depot in the late sixties and early seventies.It was indeed white and Lancia blue and was used for running spares about London. Lancia made getting on for 3000 of these vans with first the 1500 Flavia engine and later the 1800 engine.

I'm wondering if the 'Superjolly' and 'Jolly Van' are the same thing? I'm pretty sure the van you refer to is known as a 'Jolly Van', and I have definitely seen them, possibly amongst Thorne or Moerenhout's stock lists.

Was there an Aprillia-based 'Jolly Van'?

Someone, please save this poor van: http://www.geocities...nciaAprilia.htm


Justin

[flat-16]

As suspected, the Jolly Van and Superjolly are different animals:

William's Superjolly

A relative, or Fiat model?

[Fulvia-hf]

Thanks everybody for their input. I was right in my first remark. The info will come from here!
There seems some misunderstanding between de jolly and the superjolly.
The Superjolly is Flavia based and started life like the Flavia with a 1500cc boxer engine. Later on it was also for sale with the 1800 engine. A total of about 3000 were made in all variants.
The Jolly was Appia based and has a 1100cc narrow V engine. The vans are about the same size externally but the difference in engine makes for a completely different machine.
I know the works used the white and blue van, maybe for spares delivery as Flat 16 mentioned but I'm not sure. The also used the type with the full flat roof but in grey.
It simple as it may sound to get info about these cars in active Rally support the harder it turn out to be as there are no pictures in official publications exept this one taken from a Boneschi book:
http://velocetoday.c...ary08/news5.jpg
The car in service reputedly had a roofrack on the lower roofsection for spare wheels and had the whole raised roof section painted blue. Many decals of different events were applied to the paintwork. Also the 'compulsory' HF in front of the doors was added. Now the photographed evidence please!....

[flat-16]

There's a picture of an Appia-based Jolly van here: http://www.sportscar...ber/Etceterini/

And here: http://www.europeanc...s/photo_08.html

It turns out that my knowledge of Lancia vans leaves much to be desired! Thanks for the info, William.

Anyway, if I see an Appia Furgoncino come up for sale I reckon I could be tempted into doing something stupid...I could do with a van for work.

After truffling around the 'web I managed to find this: http://www.motorbase...-id/1098569579/

Is £33,000 par-for-the-course on these cars? What do they usually fetch?


Justin

[JB Miltonian]

The Appia "Vanette" pictured in the link is NOT an Appia Jolly. I have a photograph here of an Appia Jolly Camper Van that a friend of mine owned in England years ago. The Alperton/Lancia GB service van was an Appia Jolly (see C&SC July 1993).

Among the many variations of the Superjolly are the "promiscuo" goods/passenger bus, the "Superjollyrolly" motorhome, and the Superjolly "horsebox".

William, I have a couple of articles from the Lancia Motor Club Journal concerning the Flavia-based Superjolly, and I can scan and send these to you if you wish to see them. Just send me a PM with your email address.

[Fulvia-hf]

This is a picture of the ARCA mobilehome version of the Flavia Superjolly:
http://www.b20.nl/di...?album=5&pos=50
below is the appia jolly:
http://upload.wikime...250px-Jolly.jpg

[flat-16]

Originally posted by Fulvia-hf
This is a picture of the ARCA mobilehome version of the Flavia Superjolly:
http://www.b20.nl/di...?album=5&pos=50

That's a lovely selection of photos - many thanks for sharing them.

I found a couple of other shots of a Jolly Van in the photos: Is this similar to the service van Red Socks was referring to?

http://www.b20.nl/di...?album=5&pos=14

And another SuperJolly: http://www.martinwil...istings/470.jpg

Off-topic: B21 Aurelia - sublime elegance


Justin

[robroy]

Interesting stuff!
I'm a great fan of Lancias and am also lacking in knowledge of their old commercial vehicles. All I know is that they seem to be as beautifully engineered as the road cars.
Can any of you chaps point me in the way of a good book or website on the subject?

I've always fancied something like this for transporting to trackdays:



I think its a diesel and I'm not sure of model name. It doesn't look as nicely constructed as the superjollys, but I'm guessing this one was built post Fiat takeover.

[Fulvia-hf]

hello again,
there is a book completely devoted to lancia comercial vehicles.
its called: Camion lancia and is published and printed in 2001 by 'fundazione neri' see:
www.neri.it

In english and Italian.

[Fulvia-hf]

I found a couple of other shots of a Jolly Van in the photos: Is this similar to the service van Red Socks was referring to?
**I'm afraid not. Redsocks refers to a superjolly while this is a Jolly. This particular car is used as normal service van for an italian lancia dealer.


Off-topic: B21 Aurelia - sublime elegance
** have to agree. Although for absolute orgasm I prefer the B20 da Corsa. An alloy bodied special build in 1952. Unfortunately no example of the spieces exsists anymore. Although in the early 80's three replicas were constructed.
http://www.classicdr...13421/img03.jpg
http://www.viva-lanc...forsale/ar1.jpg

[JB Miltonian]

I believe the vehicle pictured in robroy's post is a Lancia Beta 190, which has a 2-stroke 2-cylinder diesel engine, made from about 1957-65.

The pictured "Lancia Servizio" van is indeed an Appia Jolly.

[Fulvia-hf]

But lets return to the original thread! Who has a picture in his or her file of a works operated lancia Superjolly van?
Please help!
William

[Kaha]

Here is on picture (not sure that it is a superjolly though) :

[Fulvia-hf]

Hello and Thank You!
Unfortunately it is not a Superjolly but a Fiat van. This picture is made in 1972 looking at the Marlboro livery of the Fulvia HF. The Superjollys were not used from about 1969 and would never have assisted the Fulvia 1600 fanalone.
Still a very intersting and rare picture,
Thanks!

[flat-16]

Not totally on-topic, but have a look at what surfaced on ebay a week or two back: http://cgi.ebay.com/...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

It may still be for sale.

Justin

[VAR1016]

Hello,

...As the owner of a very nice and rare 1200 HF...

You are fortunate to have a 1200HF; as I am sure you know given your depth of knowledge about the Super Jolly, that only 88 1200HFs were built.

A rare bird indeed; best of luck with it.

Paul

[Carles Bosch]

Hello and Thank You!
Unfortunately it is not a Superjolly but a Fiat van. This picture is made in 1972 looking at the Marlboro livery of the Fulvia HF. The Superjollys were not used from about 1969 and would never have assisted the Fulvia 1600 fanalone.
Still a very intersting and rare picture,
Thanks!

Hi, Fulvia-hf,

I'm pretty sure that this nice picture posted by Kaha, comes from the '73 Rallye Elba (Sandro Munari / Mario Mannucci, #2, 7th o/a), 'cause in the '72 Elba the car wearing the #2 was the winning 124 Sport Spider of Luciano Trombotto / Maurizio Enrico.


Carles.