32 replies to this topic

[petestenning]

Having found this footage of a lap of Nurburgring;-



It shows Hubert Hahne in a 67 2.0 litre Lola BMW being filmed by a following Formula Vee.
The question is the FVee which we believe is a Kaimann, at that event we believe 2 Kaimann's were there ,one driven by Dieter Quester, who i believe is driving the camera car.The other driver was listed as Erich Breinsberg.

Does anyone know if it is him ?


Pete

[Rob Semmeling]

Unfortunately, I can't tell you who's piloting the camera car.

What I can tell you is that the footage was recorded on Monday, after the Grand Prix. This was because the race organizers did not grant permission to film on-board scenes during practice or race, after the previous such enterprise had gone wrong in 1962: the camera had fallen off Carel de Beaufort's car. Graham Hill had a close encounter with it on his way down Fuchröhre, which sent him off into the woods...

It was not until 1968 organizers permitted a renewed attempt at filming a race with an on-board camera: Richard von Frankenberg and camera man Dieter Riwola were allowed to do so at the Eifelpokal-Rennen Formula Vee race.

[petestenning]

Thank you for that information Rob.
We were curious as to who would be good enough to keep up with the Lola in a F vee hence us thinking Quester fits the bill.


Pete

[nmansellfan]

Just as an aside, on the same 1967 German GP weekend the local TV station broadcast a lap of the Nordshleife following a pre-war Mercedes GP car, with Karl Kling driving, on an empty track (my guess is very early on Friday morning, there were no spectators). Followng behind was a Mercedes 250SL convertible (i think) with a massive full size TV camera sitting on the back seat, filming Kling driving. Hans Herrmann (sp?) was driving the 250SL. The lap is quite slow, mainly because a) the camera keeps losing picture due to the bumpy track surface, and b) the 250SL has serious trouble lugging the TV camera along, especially on the uphill stretches...there is also some serious tyre squealing! Kling nearly has to stop to let the camera car catch up at times.

[thomaskomm]

Hi, i believe that was Frankenberg he had a Formula Vee too and you can see this Vee is very fast and he said he drove onboard with Hahne with his personally vee with the Porsche Super90 engine cause this car is faster
1967 maybe there was no kaimann? they came 1968 in Wien-Aspern was this an austro vee? Or is that not correct?
Thomas

[petestenning]

Looking at a previous thread here the results show Kaimanns racing so the cars were used in 67 .


Pete

[r.atlos]

Originally posted by petestenning
Thank you for that information Rob.
We were curious as to who would be good enough to keep up with the Lola in a F vee hence us thinking Quester fits the bill.

Pete - Rob and I had exactly that discussion elsewhere some time ago: I can assure you there is no way a FVee could keep up with a F2. It's all mock-up ...

[petestenning]

I would normally agree, but that suspesion on the camera car is a bit ancient for a race car. And as seen when it hits the straight it just goes away.
An F2 Lola would certainly at race speed leave the camera car way behind.


Pete

[Flynnie]

The FVee driver isn't really keeping up..the F2 driver blows him away on the straights, hence why the video is mostly of the car going through corners.

[Rob Semmeling]

Here is what Hubert Hahne himself had to say about filming the footage:

Question: Is it true, that days before the race, during free practice, it’s you who was filmed on this famous in-car video, that circulated on the Internet?

Original answer in German:

Es stimmt grundsächlich. Jedoch war es am Montag nach dem Rennen. Leider war das Kamera-Auto ein “untermorosierter” Formula VW. Es war also wirklich kein Renntempo. Ein wenig habe ich mich darüber amüsiert, als ich den Film zum ersten Mal sah. In die Kurven habe ich sehr 'eckig' eingelenkt. Wahrscheinlich wollte ich auf diese Weise eine gewisse Dynamik vortäuschen.

And a translation (not mine) :

In principle, that’s right. However, the recording was made on the Monday, after the race. Unfortunately, the car was an ‘under-motorized’ Formula VW. It was not truly a racing pace. It was fun to watching this footage for the first time afterwards. I purposely did extreme "angled" turns into the curves. Doing so, I probably wanted to simulate some sort of dynamic in my driving style.

[AaPee89]

Hi!

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but I need of an information about Hubert: anyone have a contact with him? I want to get his autograph and I will appreciate if anyone could help me on this.

[alfredaustria]

Hi!

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but I need of an information about Hubert: anyone have a contact with him? I want to get his autograph and I will appreciate if anyone could help me on this.

Hi
I have sent you a PM
Regards
Alfred

[AaPee89]

Does anyone, please, have a high resolution photo (or in a decent quality) of Hubert driving in the German GP of 1966 and 1968, respectively driving the Matra MS5 and the Lola T100 (or T102)?

Thanks in advance!

[hansfohr]

Does anyone, please, have a high resolution photo (or in a decent quality) of Hubert driving in the German GP of 1966 and 1968, respectively driving the Matra MS5 and the Lola T100 (or T102)?

Thanks in advance!

This is all I got, hopefully it meets your standards.

Hubert Hahne, Matra-BRM MS5, 1966 German GP
(source: www.allf1.info)


Hubert Hahne, Lola-BMW T102, 1968 German GP
(source: www.forix.com)

Edited by hansfohr, 21 May 2010 - 21:44.

[AaPee89]

Indeed, I have this two photos.

BTW, I thank you for the help, man.;)

[thomaskomm]

Wow, what a great source this forum is, you can only Hubert Hahne give a questions and you know all about it! I would almost swear this was a austro vee, the first which was built as original the Beach Car.
But i can´t it 100 % say...but guys Dieter Quester drove a Kaimann in this year this is without doubt..1968 all new Kaimanns hadn´t the old "Bundbolzenvorderachse" in english i know now: "link-pin axle" but the newer ball-joint frontsuspension, only a few took the old front suspension. today in the US 1200 formulavee they drive the old front suspension until today yet! Only the new formula first has the newer front axle
Thomas

Edited by thomaskomm, 24 May 2010 - 08:41.

[hansfohr]

Indeed, I have this two photos.

BTW, I thank you for the help, man.;)

Here is another pic of Hubert's Lola T102 on the Ring!

source: wikipedia (photographer unknown)


Hubert was an awsome tintop driver, one of the best around. He was the first to break the 10 minutes barrier on the Nordschleife in the immaculate BMW 1800 Ti.

Edited by hansfohr, 22 May 2010 - 08:57.

[Henk A. Hazelaar]

Does anyone, please, have a high resolution photo (or in a decent quality) of Hubert driving in the German GP of 1966 and 1968, respectively driving the Matra MS5 and the Lola T100 (or T102)?

Thanks in advance!

Hi AaPee89,

Found this photo on FlickR.
(I use this photo without pemission)



Best regards,

Henk A. Hazelaar

[hansfohr]

I found a much better image of Hahne's #26 Matra-BRM MS5 (chassis #11)

(image: Werner Ullrich)

Edited by hansfohr, 22 May 2010 - 11:24.

[AaPee89]

Thank you Hans and Henk for the help!

[hansfohr]

Thank you Hans and Henk for the help!

You're welcome. This is what we call a Double Dutch approach.

[AaPee89]

You're welcome. This is what we call a Double Dutch approach.

Heheh, I don't understand so well this joke. But, by the way, it make me laugh a lot!

[Tim Murray]

This may help a bit, Pedro - from Wiki:

The English, historically, found Dutch (albeit a fellow Western Germanic language) particularly difficult to understand so anything that was completely incomprehensible would be double Dutch, i.e. twice as hard as Dutch.

[Twin Window]

I found a much better image of Hahne's #26 Matra-BRM MS5 (chassis #11)

(image: Werner Ullrich)

Any better?

[thomaskomm]

Here is another pic of Hubert's Lola T102 on the Ring!

source: wikipedia (photographer unknown)


Hubert was an awsome tintop driver, one of the best around. He was the first to break the 10 minutes barrier on the Nordschleife in the immaculate BMW 1800 Ti.

Wow, with the Apfelbeck Radial engine for every valve a injection pipe! Detailled descripted in "Schnelle Motoren- seziert und frisiert" from H. Hütten

Edited by thomaskomm, 24 May 2010 - 08:46.

[macoran]

Wow, with the Apfelbeck Radial engine for every valve a injection pipe!

???? I think they were four valve heads thomas, you're missing some pipes there !!

[AaPee89]

@Tim Murray: Haha, very nice!

[r.atlos]

Are we counting by cylinder or for the entire head ? The Apfelbeck had 4 valves per cylinder, thus 16 for the entire head or 8 inlet valves (and, thus, 8 inlet trumpets) in total.

[macoran]

???? I think they were four valve heads thomas, you're missing some pipes there !!

Didn't it have two cylinder heads ?

[r.atlos]

Now you're confusing me, macoran. When you put the stress on "valve heads" - yes, it was not one huge piece of casting, it consisted of 4 heads, one for each cylinder. But still - each one had 2 diametrically opposed inlet valves and, therefore, each of them had its inlet trumpet which makes 8 in that strange position. So far I'm with you.

Where you now confused me is when suggesting that there were two heads ...

BTW, there has been an article on the Apfelbeck head in Autosport dated 17/07/1967.

[Nanni Dietrich]

Having found this footage of a lap of Nurburgring;-



It shows Hubert Hahne in a 67 2.0 litre Lola BMW being filmed by a following Formula Vee.
The question is the FVee which we believe is a Kaimann, at that event we believe 2 Kaimann's were there ,one driven by Dieter Quester, who i believe is driving the camera car.The other driver was listed as Erich Breinsberg.

Does anyone know if it is him ?


Pete

If I remember well, DQ usually had a black helmet. The FV driver is wearing a white one...

[Richard Jenkins]

Hubert died today in Dusseldorf - only articles so far are on Facebook but I'm sure they will come. Sadly he had been ill for some years with dementia, so it is somewhat of a release for him, but sad for those left behind. RIP.

[Udo K.]

BTW, he is buried in an urn grave on the Adenau cemetery near the Nürburgring ...