Motorbike-powered race cars in Australia 1950 - 1980
#51
Posted 08 October 2011 - 20:37
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#52
Posted 08 October 2011 - 20:48
Or, if it is 250 powered, perhaps he just 'nodded off'?Thanks for the info gents, I've always liked the photo.
It looks like the car's got some real grunt the way his head's laying back
#53
Posted 08 October 2011 - 20:56
Just to stir up the mind cells what is the history of the Jack Myers Cooper & where is it now, thanks to all for your inputs keep it going.
It is now with Andrew Halliday in Sydney, currently has a 500 JAP but he is building up a 1000 V twin for it, it certainly has had a chequered history originally being the car Jack Saywell raced in the early fifties and since then has had a multitude of owners including of course, Jack Myers.
Andrew Halliday and his family also have the ex Jack Brabham midget no. 28 and the Waye 500 which I think was mentioned earlier in this thread.
#54
Posted 08 October 2011 - 20:58
Edit: Oops! Dick beat me to it, and with better info.
Edited by john medley, 08 October 2011 - 21:01.
#55
Posted 08 October 2011 - 21:26
#56
Posted 08 October 2011 - 22:24
Does anyone know anything about them? Any pics? Was the Jabenti intended for that sort of racing?
John's always up early, Dick, especially now he's recovering. It's me who's usually not up until after six.
#57
Posted 09 October 2011 - 11:29
Not much further mention of those F4 cars of the mid-sixties...
Does anyone know anything about them? Any pics? Was the Jabenti intended for that sort of racing?
I have an article from Sports car World, March 1967 describing Formula 4 as it was being introduced in Australia, based on something that started in Europe (cars had been built by JW in England and Tecno in Italy). The intention was for 250cc two-stroke motorcycle engines, but there was discussion about an offshoot for 650cc 4-stroke engines such as Triumph, BSA etc. I dont know how many were built locally or if there were ever any races for them. The car pictured in this thread which has been suggested as possibly Jabenti, would seem to fit the F4 outline.
If anyone wants me to post the article please ask and I will scan it.
Rob Saward
#58
Posted 09 October 2011 - 11:33
#59
Posted 09 October 2011 - 20:33
I can the remember the DPR Triumph racing at Catalina in the 1960's & doing quite well in it's races, it was the first race car that I remember that had one quarter of the steering wheel removed to allow room for the driver.
Thanks for the history of the Myers Cooper, sure has been around, are there any pictures out there of Jack & his makeshift lathe that he took to all events so that his SU & Amal Needles were the best for the day, truly a great man.
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#60
Posted 09 October 2011 - 20:42
Edited by john medley, 09 October 2011 - 20:44.
#61
Posted 09 October 2011 - 22:25
#62
Posted 10 October 2011 - 01:22
#63
Posted 10 October 2011 - 09:24
A.Harvey, 5 Day Special, Baskerville 1959. I think this car and at least 2 other air-cooleds were built specifically for the 1959 Australian Hillclimb Championship at Hobart's Domain, which was twinned with a Baskervelle meeting next day.
I have results for 1959 AHCC at Hobart Domain.
The aircooled / motorcycle engined cars entered were:
Don Gorringe, JMW, 148cc, 43.53
A.N.Harvey 5 day Special, 200cc, 49.87
P.Abbey, Abbey BSA, 350cc, 45.72
Lionel Hart, Hart Norton Spl, 494cc, 39.17
Dave Powell, Cooper Norton, 499cc, 37.01
Alan Staton, BRM 500, 491cc, 37.04
Lex Sternberg, Whiteford Irving, 1096cc S/C, 36.69
Brian Mahoney, Cooper Vincent, 998 S/C, 37.15
Bruce Walton , Walton Cooper, 1105cc S/C, 33.88
The Gorringe JMW was one of at least 2 of these that went to Tasmania.
Lionel Hart's Hart Norton was a car in its second incarnation. It began life in c1953-54 as Hart BMW special with (I think) 600ss BMW twin engine).
I have no further knowledge of the 5 Day Special other than the photo posted earlier. Same goes for Abbey BSA; I dont have a photo of that.
Rob Saward
#64
Posted 10 October 2011 - 10:38
GMackie mentions the Ross Pentecost AJS - this car had a four page write up in SCW August 1959.
Very attractive little F3 with an unusual plan to run cooling ducts from the nose to the usual rear mounted elektron GP. AJS
I found the interesting article & photos while researching my 40 year passion with all about NOTA & Guy Buckingham [who built the chassis for the AJS]
Did the car perform well - is it still around ?
#65
Posted 10 October 2011 - 20:40
Great subject.
GMackie mentions the Ross Pentecost AJS - this car had a four page write up in SCW August 1959.
Very attractive little F3 with an unusual plan to run cooling ducts from the nose to the usual rear mounted elektron GP. AJS
I found the interesting article & photos while researching my 40 year passion with all about NOTA & Guy Buckingham [who built the chassis for the AJS]
Did the car perform well - is it still around ?
Patrick, according to info from Graham Howard the Ross Pentecost AJS passed on to Owen Tracey who was from the NSW South Coast, upon completion of Tracey,s racing the car was in such bad state (metal fatigue) that it was scrapped at the local tip, not sure if parts were kept or sold off with only the chassie being scrapped.
Owens Son resides in the ACT he may be able to assist with more information, some one on the Forum will have his contact details.
#66
Posted 10 October 2011 - 21:37
#68
Posted 17 October 2011 - 00:34
#69
Posted 17 October 2011 - 05:54
And the first of the modern type would have been around 1946 or 1947, I suspect. But, sorry, can't answer your specific question
#70
Posted 17 October 2011 - 12:18
The Chamberlain Special was initially motorcycle engine-powered. This was an Indian Daytona, which developed valve trouble and required 'further work.' Fitting Norton barrels was among the changes made before the brothers got more adventurous and built their own engine based on a motorcycle crankcase, that of a 4-cylinder Henderson.
This car's first appearance in the Australian Grand Prix was in 1931.
Edited by Ray Bell, 17 October 2011 - 13:12.
#71
Posted 17 October 2011 - 12:58
The question isn't about 'road racing events in Australia'As the first 'road racing events in Australia' began in 1927 or so, it's unlikely that they were used quite that early...
I was hoping my comment might bring out a definition of what DanTra meant by "Road Racing style events". My presumption is that his wording was to exclude speedway midget (or speedcar) racing, but wondered if he wanted to include events at such as Aspendale and Penrith. Only he can answer
#72
Posted 17 October 2011 - 20:25
The question isn't about 'road racing events in Australia'
I was hoping my comment might bring out a definition of what DanTra meant by "Road Racing style events". My presumption is that his wording was to exclude speedway midget (or speedcar) racing, but wondered if he wanted to include events at such as Aspendale and Penrith. Only he can answer
The term that I used "Road Racing style events" would include Road / Circuit Racing, Hill Climbs & Sprints but not Speedway.
#73
Posted 18 October 2011 - 02:38
Brian Lear may know more, however, in the realms of hillclimbs particularly.
#74
Posted 18 October 2011 - 07:14
Although Arthur Emerson entered the Conoullty 500 in the 1947 AGP, motorcycle-engined cars made little nationall impact until the appearance of Reg Hunt’s eponymous 500 in 1949 and the Coopers the following year
Victorian 500s which preceded the Hunt 500 were the Ariel-engined car of Bill Low and Bob Lane in 1947 and the Cudmore of 1948, followed by Len Day’s car in 1949
The Hooper and Rose machines had appeared in NSW hillclimbs in 1948, and Ron Tauranac’s first effort the following year
The former Low/Lane car competed in Queensland in 1948, and the Warburton 500 the same year
The Cass 500 appeared in WA in 1949, quickly becoming the Cass 500
#75
Posted 18 October 2011 - 17:31
BJP - Brian Pentland - Victoria
BRM - Alan Staton and Ken Gayfer - Melbourne
Clayton Scott - Sid Clayton
Cudmore - ?
Cullen Norton - ?
Ross - Ed. Ross
Sidney - Len Sidney - Melbourne
does anyone have any further information or pictures that could be used on the 500 owners association ( www.500race.org ) web site ?
Richard
#76
Posted 18 October 2011 - 19:19
#77
Posted 19 October 2011 - 06:56
Was there an Australian Cullen-Norton as well as the New Zealand one?
err... nope looks like it is on the worng list
#78
Posted 19 October 2011 - 09:56
BMW Special, also known as Hart BMW. First reference I have is Valleyfield November 1951. Built by Lionel “Snowy’ Hart, truck driver from Hobart. Car is believed to have been converted to Manx Norton power circa 1958. Also known as Norton Special. Current whereabouts not known.
White Special, also known as White Vincent. Built by ex Vincent motorcycle racer Graham White of Launceston. Earliest reference I have is March 1955, Longford. Last heard of in 1958. Probably dismantled and Vincent engine returned to motorcycle.
JAP Special. Built by Brian Mahoney, Hobart c1954. Later changed to Vincent engine after many reliability problems with the JAP. Known as Vincent Special. The Vincent engine is believed to have been later removed and fitted to the ex Walkem Cooper Mk V by Mahoney in 1958.
Saanen Special. Built by Johnny Watt of Hobart, circa 1957. 500cc engine type not known. Last appeared in 1959. Named after Saanen, a breed of white goat, a bit of an in-joke related to the earlier Watt brothers Ford Anglia and Prefect specials which bore the nickname ‘The Goat’. The car was painted white. Current whereabouts unknown.
Abbey BSA. Built by P.Abbey, Hobart in about 1959 with 350cc BSA engine.. Appeared at several meetings 1959-61 . Current whereabouts unknown.
Five Day Special. A.N.Harvey. Built in 1959 with 250cc BSA engine, just prior to the 1959 AHCC at Queen’s Domain, Hobart. Ran several times in 1959 only. Current whereabouts unknown.
E.A Special. R.Douglas. 249cc, engine type unknown. Ran c1959-61. Current whereabouts unknown.
Kenley. Built c1951 by Geoff Smedley in Launceston with Indian vee twin engine. Re-engined in 1956 with supercharged Vincent. Raced variously by Geoff and Ross Oliver with occasional drives by Arnold Cannon. Sold to Harry Atherton in early 1960s, and fitted with a car engine. Current whereabouts unknown.
Walkem Manx. Jock Walkem, Launceston. Also known as Manx Special and Manx 500 Special. Run with Manx Norton engine 1955-56. Converted to Vincent engine un-supercharged in late 1956. Usually entered as Walkem Vincent. Later supercharged. Sold by Walkem circa 1958, probably without the Vincent engine, as this was believed to have been fitted to Walkem’s Cooper Mk V Vincent raced in 1958. The Walkem re-appeared in 1962 with John Contencin, with 499cc engine (make not known). Later sold to mainland, currently with Paul Zahra in Melbourne.
KY Special, also known as KY Vincent, 1088cc supercharged. Built by Keith Young, Hobart in early 1960s, primarily for sprints. I am not aware that it was ever circuit raced or hill climbed. Still active in 1966. Sometimes driven by Dave Powell. Nowadays believed to be somewhere in NSW???
Crawford Special. Geoff Crawford. Front engined speedway midget type car with transverse Indian 1200cc engine. Also known as Crawford Indian. Raced at Valleyfield, Tunbridge and Longford c1950-53. Origin not clear but probably purchased from Victoria originally. Current whereabouts unknown.
Indian Special. Alan Hale, entered in 1955 events. This may have been the former Crawford Indian, but no evidence available.
Whiteford Irving. Lex Sternberg, Burnie. Often entered by his business Burnie Car sales. First run by Sternberg in 1959. Supercharged Vincent engine was built and maintained by Phil Irving. Converted to Climax FWB engine in 1960. Current whereabouts unknown.
JMW. For a long time I and others believed there were two JMWs in Tasmania, but a review of the evidence last night revealed three, both from entries and reference to three cars coming to Tasmania in article on the Crawford car in AMS February 1964. Likely 'imported' by Don Gorringe, as two of them were in his trademark yellow at 1959 AHCC.
#1. Dick Crawford, c1959-65. Initially 148cc BSA? engine, later changed to 147cc CZ engine. Raced widely at Tasmanian meetings up to about 1965. Initially Yellow, later red with modified bodywork. Current whereabouts not known to me but may still be with Dick Crawford.
#2. Don Gorringe. Raced in 1959 only. Painted yellow. 148cc BSA? engine. Current whereabouts not known.
#3. R.Show. Also entered as CZ Special. Ran at Symmons Plains 1961.
Rob Saward
#79
Posted 19 October 2011 - 10:12
But I will note that my late uncle, Teddy Moir of Dunedoo, competed at Pound Hill with a self-made car which was motorcycle powered. I'm quite sure his will be among the many dozens of cars that nobody's heard of or remembers today in this broad field of air-cooled endeavour.
Edited by Ray Bell, 20 October 2011 - 01:22.
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#80
Posted 19 October 2011 - 16:30
Thank you so much for this. If I can offer two things
There's an image of the Alan Hale car in the Burnie Advocate, 17th May 1954 - captioned "R Hale, Crawford Special" and described elsewhere in the paper as "A Hale, Indian Special". The one image I have of the Crawford car is bodyless, but it looks pretty close.Crawford Special. Geoff Crawford. Front engined speedway midget type car with transverse Indian 1200cc engine. Also known as Crawford Indian. Raced at Valleyfield, Tunbridge and Longford c1950-53. Origin not clear but probably purchased from Victoria originally. Current whereabouts unknown.
Indian Special. Alan Hale, entered in 1955 events. This may have been the former Crawford Indian, but no evidence available.
I have sightings of the Walkem Special in November 1954, with suggestions of some earlier appearances, but was there perhaps an earlier car? In September 1953 he appeared at a sprint in something variously described as "AEF Special" and "Douglas dirt bike engined". I'm pretty sure the mystery engine in your earlier shot isn't a Douglas (which I thought were flat twins). A also presume this AEF is not related to the British 500 of the same name from 1949, but it is quite a coincidence.Walkem Manx. Jock Walkem, Launceston. Also known as Manx Special and Manx 500 Special. Run with Manx Norton engine 1955-56. Converted to Vincent engine un-supercharged in late 1956. Usually entered as Walkem Vincent. Later supercharged. Sold by Walkem circa 1958, probably without the Vincent engine, as this was believed to have been fitted to Walkem’s Cooper Mk V Vincent raced in 1958. The Walkem re-appeared in 1962 with John Contencin, with 499cc engine (make not known). Later sold to mainland, currently with Paul Zahra in Melbourne.
#81
Posted 19 October 2011 - 23:29
This car was entered in the Bathurst October 1957 Meeting, according to John Medley book it had a 1207cc BSA Motor but was very slow, what else is known about the car/ driver & was this it's only event, did it ever compete in this meeting or just practice.
Photo copied from the Ian McKay Collection on the Aussie Race Car collection by Brian Darby.
#82
Posted 19 October 2011 - 23:58
Were there perhaps two engines in this car?
There were 500cc & 650cc I think but neither of these quite add-up to JM's 1207cc (which I don't doubt).
#83
Posted 20 October 2011 - 01:53
Taken at the inaugural Port Wakefield meeting:
One of the Nichols Vincent specials - he raced at least three over a period of years. This may well be No 1 - taken at Caversham:
#84
Posted 20 October 2011 - 01:58
This was the car that inspired the Eldred Norman Eclipse Zephyr (or 'Norholfordor') because it had the engine in front with a simple tube being the backbone of the chassis, the drive going through that tube to a final drive at the rear.
Surely there are pics of this inventive car around?
#86
Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:00
Yes, BSA had only 500cc and 650cc engines. There was a pre-war four cylinder sidevalve light car engine (Daimler designed or derived) but I dont know its capacity offhand and would be very surprised if anyone thought it would make a racing engine! Was probably Ok on the road but as a racing engine it would make a good boat anchor.I know little of motorcycles but did BSA have a 1200cc engine in the 1950s?
Were there perhaps two engines in this car?
There were 500cc & 650cc I think but neither of these quite add-up to JM's 1207cc (which I don't doubt).
Rob Saward
#87
Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:05
You beat me to it - i was just thinking how alike the Hall car was to the Cass, which was well photographed and written up in AMS. Would anyone have been using a Vincent that early? I know the first post-war Vincents came to Australia in 1946, but were initially fairly scarce, and their use in racing cars did not take off untill about 1955 or so, possibly due to Phil Irving's influence and availability locally for advice.The Cass Spl at Narrogin in 1948. I think a Vincent engine, but am not sure. This car was later scrapped, its engine and box probably going back into a bike. Don Hall salvaged the body panels for his own car.
Rob Saward
#88
Posted 20 October 2011 - 05:40
The BSA Scout (car) was 1204cc - near enough? These engines were used successfully in a couple of NZ specials ("successfully") being a relative term...)Yes, BSA had only 500cc and 650cc engines. There was a pre-war four cylinder sidevalve light car engine (Daimler designed or derived) but I dont know its capacity offhand and would be very surprised if anyone thought it would make a racing engine! Was probably Ok on the road but as a racing engine it would make a good boat anchor.
#89
Posted 20 October 2011 - 09:02
I have learnt about the BSA Scout; this excellent website is very interesting;
http://www.bsafwdc.co.uk/page11.php#8
So, strictly speaking, Standfield's BSA Special was not a motor-cycle-engined car but, nonetheless, it's extremely interesting.
#90
Posted 20 October 2011 - 10:47
I have sightings of the Walkem Special in November 1954, with suggestions of some earlier appearances, but was there perhaps an earlier car?
I had not realised that The Advocate was now on Trove, but have now seen the two November 1954 sightings of the Walkem Manx Special, at Muddy Creek Hillclimb and grass track meeting at Deloraine.
Lots of Advocate searching to do now!
Rob Saward
#91
Posted 20 October 2011 - 11:23
#92
Posted 20 October 2011 - 14:42
#93
Posted 20 October 2011 - 21:09
Attached is an extract from the BSA web site, I seem to remember a write up in one of the Motoring Mags of the time, Sports Car World comes to mind.
Note the Capicity of the motor.
#94
Posted 20 October 2011 - 21:39
#95
Posted 20 October 2011 - 22:09
Ingenuity, an old BSA and 500 pounds by Alan Gibbons. "Using an ancient BSA as a basis, Sydneyite Allan Standfield has built himself a unique special..." (4 pages inc. text and b/w photos)
Photo of SCW cover
#96
Posted 21 October 2011 - 01:40
#97
Posted 21 October 2011 - 04:47
"Powered with a 1,000.c. H.R.D. motor cycle engine fitted in the rear of an exceptionally light chas sis, the Gibson "special" is the first of its type in W.A. and one of few in Australia. Since the idea of a 1,000c.c. light racing car was first introduced in Eng land, its development has aroused much interest among enthusiasts throughout the world. Wally Gibson, as owner-driver of the Plymouth "special," gained the distinction of winning the Gold Star in his first season."
#98
Posted 21 October 2011 - 06:33
According to this site http://www.500race.org/ the Cass started out with a Norton 500A 1948 report describes the Cass car as the "Cass 500 Special". Not Vincent. What was I thinking?
#99
Posted 21 October 2011 - 07:14
This would make it a contender for the earliest HRD or Vincent engined car in Australia. I wonder could it have been a pre-war HRD engine? A B Series (post war) HRD motorcycle was a rare, expensive and quite new thing in 1949, and excepting for an accident damaged bike, I cannot imagine anyone wrecking one for its engine that early. Are there any WA newspaper references which describe the car in any detail?In The West Australian, 3 November 1949, the former Cass Spl, now owned by Wal Gibson, is described as being fitted with a 1,000 cc H R D engine.
"Powered with a 1,000.c. H.R.D. motor cycle engine fitted in the rear of an exceptionally light chas sis, the Gibson "special" is the first of its type in W.A. and one of few in Australia. Since the idea of a 1,000c.c. light racing car was first introduced in Eng land, its development has aroused much interest among enthusiasts throughout the world. Wally Gibson, as owner-driver of the Plymouth "special," gained the distinction of winning the Gold Star in his first season."
Rob Saward
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#100
Posted 21 October 2011 - 10:19