Experiments: weird, bizarre, useless, etc...

Originally posted by 962C
Turbo visors are still pretty common in kart racing.

The much-touted Hydrolink suspension that Tyrell used on the 023 car for the 1995 World Championship season, which was removed from the cars halfway through the seasn due to its problems and inefficiences.

I am not sure if qualifies as an experiment, but the transparent cockpit cover on Graham McRae's F5000 GM3 was certainly different - has anyone else used a similar transparent cover?

 

I am not sure if qualifies as an experiment, but the transparent cockpit cover on Graham McRae's F5000 GM3 was certainly different - has anyone else used a similar transparent cover?

Why did McRae do that?

The early 6 wheeled Tyrrells had windows in the cockpit so the drivers could see the front wheels.

Edited by alansart, 31 January 2014 - 09:11.

Vanwall tried a streamline perspex cockpit cover in 1957 or '58, I think, and Brabham definitely used one in practise at Monza in 1967; both were apparently ineffective - I don't know if the McRae version was similar.

Paul M

 

I am not sure if qualifies as an experiment, but the transparent cockpit cover on Graham McRae's F5000 GM3 was certainly different - has anyone else used a similar transparent cover?

Why did McRae do that?

The early 6 wheeled Tyrrells had windows in the cockpit so the drivers could see the front wheels.

Protos and Brabham both experimented with a Perspex bubble style screen but soon discarded them.

Why did McRae do that?

The early 6 wheeled Tyrrells had windows in the cockpit so the drivers could see the front wheels.

I think the windows were added after initial testing when the drivers complained. Incidentally, what happened to Projects 1 to 33?

I remember one of the columnists in Autocar writing about the P34 and betting that 6-wheel cars would be banned the following season. When they weren't I wrote in and reminded him of his comments but I've yet to receive my winnings...

Edited by 2F-001, 31 January 2014 - 10:29.

Why did McRae do that?

The early 6 wheeled Tyrrells had windows in the cockpit so the drivers could see the front wheels.

Nothing new under the sun - the Tyrrells copied the Austin/Morris FG trucks of the 50s/60s. Windows in the lower part of the cab for manoeuvering in narrow streets.

The early 6 wheeled Tyrrells had windows in the cockpit so the drivers could see the front wheels.

I think the windows were added after initial testing when the drivers complained.

 

In 1976 at the British GP the 'windows' in the Tyrrells were increased in size. One of the commentary team said it was "so the spectators could see the drivers at work" but was it really done to help the drivers take a quick glance at the front wheels?

Surprisingly, the cast alloy monocoque/s from de Tomaso haven't yet been mentioned in this thread...

There's some  detail in this thread, but precious little else to be found on the internet about them.

I'm of the opinion that the '62 F1 car with de Tomaso's own flat eight and 6-speed gearbox was made of cast sections while the Indianapolis version is said to be a one-piece mono.

Definitely different...

In 1976 at the British GP the 'windows' in the Tyrrells were increased in size. One of the commentary team said it was "so the spectators could see the drivers at work" but was it really done to help the drivers take a quick glance at the front wheels?

Weren't the windows so that the drivers could actually see the front wheels which were too small to be seen over the cockpit top - e.g. so that they could place them the appropriate distance from a kerb?

The windows on theTyrrells were definitely added so that the drivers could see the wheels.  But I always understood that the reason they needed to see them had nothing to do with placing the car - after all anybody in a modern saloon with a 'dropaway' bonnet doesn't have problems nor did drivers of Minis, Can-Am cars and indeed any sports cars with an all-enveloping body (as opposed to cycle wings).  The purpose was to allow them to check the wheels, for condition (e.g. wear and graining),  whether they were still pointing in the right direction after a bump and, if the story above is true, to check whether they were still there.

I don't have the Motor Sport disc for the 1970's to see what DSJ wrote at the time, but I know he would have written about them as it's the sort of detail he revelled in..

Not only that, the rear wheels formed a much wider car section, they'd have climbed kerbs that the front wheels missed...

These kinds of judgements most drivers would make as a matter of course.

Not only that, the rear wheels formed a much wider car section, they'd have climbed kerbs that the front wheels missed...

Surprisingly, the cast alloy monocoque/s from de Tomaso haven't yet been mentioned in this thread...
 
There's some  detail in this thread, but precious little else to be found on the internet about them.
 
I'm of the opinion that the '62 F1 car with de Tomaso's own flat eight and 6-speed gearbox was made of cast sections while the Indianapolis version is said to be a one-piece mono.
 
Definitely different...

In 1976 at the British GP the 'windows' in the Tyrrells were increased in size. One of the commentary team said it was "so the spectators could see the drivers at work" but was it really done to help the drivers take a quick glance at the front wheels?

The window's were definitely not in place when the car was launched, IIRC larger windows were fitted for the British GP and Uncle Ken said he would suggest they become mandatory to the authorities if he got enough support, which regrettably he did not.

Yep.

Can't for the life of me understand why this was never picked up for Formula 1...

Yep.

Can't for the life of me understand why this was never picked up for Formula 1...

Can't for the life of me understand why this was never picked up for Formula 1...

 

Wasn't it?

Something makes 'em corner boringly well these days.

Ike Eichelberger's 1969 Porsche-Keil, with movable central body panel giving variable downforce:
 

http://www.virhistor...s/keil/keil.htm

The windows on P34…

I'm sure I recall reading a report that, prior to the transparent panels being fitted, one of the drivers came in from a run in testing and said he thought he may have low pressure in one of the front tyres; one of the crew gestured to him to get out and take a look… as one of the front wheels was missing completely.
Does anyone know if this tale is actually true?

I don't know if the story you descrribe is true. But....

I have read in a column (Ghost?)written by Jody Scheckter in a Dutch magazine that on one occasion he had noticed he had lost a wheel and decided to have a little fungame by driving on to find out it the crew would notice it too when he passed the pitlane. They did....

Henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 23 April 2014 - 07:38.

That's what modern F1 needs, proper tyres! And that pic is fabulous, just back em into a corner and drive them out. Spectacular. And near impossible to do on modern tyres as they have so much grip.

I know that some European circuits have to vacuum the track after each meeting to remove the rubber waste to prevent it from entering the polluted waterways.

So to avoid the tire marbling, let's make them much harder again like in the pre-tire changes era.

Will slow the cars down massively if forced to run on much harder (= less grippy) tire

I don't mind but I wonder how the majorituy of the current day fans, speed and noise obsessed as they appear to be (See the racing forum) will think about that....

Some of them are still complaining about track records set in 2004 which are still not broken......

Henri

So to avoid the tire marbling, let's make them much harder again like in the pre-tire changes era.

Will slow the cars down massively if forced to run on much harder (= less grippy) tire

I don't mind but I wonder how the majorituy of the current day fans, speed and noise obsessed as they appear to be (See the racing forum) will think about that....

Some of them are still complaining about track records set in 2004 which are still not broken......

 

 

 

Henri

Well we've put up with the over-prescriptive rules that wrecked motor racing as we knew it for long enough, so surely it's the fanboys' turn!

We remember the upset when in 1958 Cooper first thought of running a full Grand Prix without changing tyres - it'd be good if they were allowed to try that again.

What sort of advert is it that the tyres don't last 20 laps - and that's a valid point before I bleat on about the rule that forces the cars to use a tyre that is not what is thought most suitable.

At the 1996 Italian Grand Prix, the Tyrell team ran a solid front wishbone, in an attempt to cut drag. The FIA banned it, on the grounds of being a moveable aerodynamic device.

http://www.racecar-e...1/09/up024a.jpg

I know that some European circuits have to vacuum the track after each meeting to remove the rubber waste to prevent it from entering the polluted waterways.

There is some here too. Not just [legitimate] enviro concerns but the grass does not grow in rubber on the edge of the track.

I think this has not been mentioned here yet: Lebacq DL7

http://www.oto6.fr/6...roueslebacq.htm

Okay, it's in french....

The picture is from that site.

Edited by Duc-Man, 31 May 2014 - 15:59.

1972 Formula 2 Crossle 22F, with unusual mid-mounted wings:

Source: http://www.crossle.c...ssle_20_22F.htm

The 2011 BRISCA "tilt car" stockcar of Craig Finniken, with the body radically tipped over the left. Finniken seems to have gone back to a standard body, so the "tilt car" musn't have worked too well.

http://f1stockcars.c...ig-finnikin-55/

The Lancia Delta S4 Group B rally car used both a supercharger and turbocharger, with an intercooler for each one. The supercharger worked at low speeds, after which the turbocharger took over, with a bypass valve relieving the pressure from the supercharger.

With the banning of Group B and replacement by the less complicated Group A, there was no need to develop such a complicated system in future cars.

The 2011 BRISCA "tilt car" stockcar of Craig Finniken, with the body radically tipped over the left. Finniken seems to have gone back to a standard body, so the "tilt car" musn't have worked too well.

 

 

 

http://f1stockcars.c...ig-finnikin-55/

All oval track cars lean left. That one a little more than most. The car squares up on the track with the chassis roll. And oval cars have to be soft and supple to get traction.

On that car the wing will be all wrong upon cornering, the object of that big left wing fence is to channel the air right to left, and push down on the l/r more

The Lancia Delta S4 Group B rally car used both a supercharger and turbocharger, with an intercooler for each one. The supercharger worked at low speeds, after which the turbocharger took over, with a bypass valve relieving the pressure from the supercharger.

 

 

With the banning of Group B and replacement by the less complicated Group A, there was no need to develop such a complicated system in future cars.

They went even further with the engine for the ECV that was in development for the Gr.S.

Gents, here is the Triflux engine:

And they had it actually build and running.

I suppose you can add the 2-seater F1 cars to the list of oddities. 

I know this was a few years ago [10+] and they are not current F1 spec, but are they used anywhere for demos, promo work etc? Martin Brundle taking Murray Walker round Silverstone sticks in my mind. I vaguely remember something about a proposed series of races for them but that never happened, or did it?

If that spec of F1 became eligible for Historic F1, would these cars also be eligible, even with no passenger?

1972 Formula 2 Crossle 22F, with unusual mid-mounted wings:

 

 

 

Source: http://www.crossle.c...ssle_20_22F.htm

Clearly inspired by Ferrari 

I suppose you can add the 2-seater F1 cars to the list of oddities. 

I know this was a few years ago [10+] and they are not current F1 spec, but are they used anywhere for demos, promo work etc? Martin Brundle taking Murray Walker round Silverstone sticks in my mind. I vaguely remember something about a proposed series of races for them but that never happened, or did it?

 

A series never happened but there was a 'race' in Rockinham in 2003 won by Verstappen sr. and a certain mister Kay, look at the headline    http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/24425

A series never happened but there was a 'race' in Rockinham in 2003 won by Verstappen sr. and a certain mister Kay, look at the headline    http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/24425

I seem to recall also a race at Donington that featured a fairly nasty shunt involving Mr Mansell

In 1979 Ken Reese built a very radical car for supermodified racing, ovals on asphalt.

It was very fast, but it was also banned before it raced.

http://www.jakessite...eece/reece.html

I think we can safely add to this list three more weird, bizarre and useless concepts from very recently;  the Deltawing, the Nissan ZEOD and the Nissan-Nismo GTR LM.

I think we can safely add to this list three more weird, bizarre and useless concepts from very recently;  the Deltawing, the Nissan ZEOD and the Nissan-Nismo GTR LM.

I agree with the Deltawing and ZEOD, for the GTR LM I believe the jury is still out until the moment Nissan has everything sorted out and the car in the specifications it envisioned.

Not that I am a believer in it that it will work as they envisoned but at least I must give the car the benefit of the doubt until the moment it is built and runs as designed and planned.

Henri

In 1979 Ken Reese built a very radical car for supermodified racing, ovals on asphalt.

 

 

 

 

It was very fast, but it was also banned before it raced.

http://www.jakessite...eece/reece.html

After this thing showed up for the first time they added a rule to the book that says where the wheels of a car have to be...

I've seen the Reese car before and i understand that letf turn only oval racing favors ~somewhat~ asymmetrical designs, but how and why exactly was this a good idea? What was the trick?

It seems to me that having such a radical wheel setup creates more problems than it solves.

I don't think this one has shown it's face here yet ? the Peter Helferich "Pariah" I have found it appearing three time, twice at Elkhart Lake (Road America) "65 & '67.  and once at Mid Ohio '66. any one have any information ? what was it based on, and what powered it ? scroll back & forth in the link for a few more photos.

https://www.flickr.c...in/photostream/

Mike Scott (group7) in Canada