1324 replies to this topic

[BRADER]

Larry
I accept your greater knowledge than me.I thought he had pulled out and it was in my mind at the time that Rudolf Kunz and Barry Smith were the only 2 riders with works support thus if both broke down I fancied my chances.Like an idiot I reved my machine beyond its limits Honda recommended 13k I went to 16k which was not unusreal but after being faultless in practise it decided to drop a valve in and seized at the bottom of Bray
Hence Angel Nieto got further than me. Great fun and great days were the 60s racing on a shoestring but you would know that Larry
I used to do the TT in the 60s for around £100 for the fortnight including superb guest house accomodation with a workshop, early morning call with toast and a cup of tea, and breakfast and evening meal, Thank you Mrs Jackson Hillary Park

HI ARTHUR QUICK HELLO WITH A BLAST FROM THE 50 PAST RICHARD BRADER BRIAN BRADERS BROTHER GOOD DAYS RACING 50 CLUB

[BRADER]

My word how tall is that guy on No. 16.
I think the event ,ran by the Racing 50 Club,now known as the new ERA club,started originally as 250 miles.
It was the only event held so a full days circuit hire was required for 1 race. However as costs increased other cc class races had to be included in the days programme so in the mid to late 60's it was reduced to 2 hours duration.
This was the days before transponders and as the lap counters were opposite the pit lane at Snetterton it used to produce some real arguments as they were trying to work out several different classes.In 1968 they even got the overall winner wrong,but thats another story.

Hi What a brill picture of the 250mile race run at Snet by the Racing 50 Club was there my brother rode sharing a bike with Paul Latham, the works Motom won [i think ]1 of only a few 4 stroke, GOOD DAYS

[Arthur]

HI ARTHUR QUICK HELLO WITH A BLAST FROM THE 50 PAST RICHARD BRADER BRIAN BRADERS BROTHER GOOD DAYS RACING 50 CLUB

Hi Richard, welcome Remember your brother well and Paul Latham Was not your brothers wife something to do with the organisation of the Racing 50 Club.
Relating to George Ashton understand George is now living in New Zealand.
George started on an Itom then a Honda Cr110 one of the first racing bikes to employ disc brakes, he did ride a Suzuki for the importers in the enduro,was very succesfull on the Agrati Garelli and finished his racing 50cc days on a very fast Des Bone Itom.
He did also ride other cc classes like many of us did. A very competent rider everyone thought his Honda was quicker than anyone elses but in fact it was slower than some including mine Dereck Savoury bought it off George and I let him ride mine to compare,mine was quicker for some reason.

[BRADER]

Hi Richard, welcome Remember your brother well and Paul Latham Was not your brothers wife something to do with the organisation of the Racing 50 Club.
Relating to George Ashton understand George is now living in New Zealand.
George started on an Itom then a Honda Cr110 one of the first racing bikes to employ disc brakes, he did ride a Suzuki for the importers in the enduro,was very succesfull on the Agrati Garelli and finished his racing 50cc days on a very fast Des Bone Itom.
He did also ride other cc classes like many of us did. A very competent rider everyone thought his Honda was quicker than anyone elses but in fact it was slower than some including mine Dereck Savoury bought it off George and I let him ride mine to compare,mine was quicker for some reason.

Hi Arthur thanks for the mail,yes Audrey did help out with the 50 club,I think most people were more than willing to help out it was a bit like a family back then ,racing on the cheap so to say,remember Brian taking Des Bones itom complete with dustbin fairing as a spare bike to the I.O.M IN 62 [which i still have the programme] all the 50 club more or less wanted to do the 1st I.O.M race even B Swain, realy good days 6o/67. Brian/Audrey have been in Canada for over 25 years now,we in 70s started sponcering and building 125,s Maico based, Clive Horton & Neil Tuxworth rode for us,Clive being British Champion ,lost its egde for me when we brought a Morbidelli the money involved was to much for short pockets regards Richard

[50cc racer]

Hi Arthur thanks for the mail,yes Audrey did help out with the 50 club,I think most people were more than willing to help out it was a bit like a family back then ,racing on the cheap so to say,remember Brian taking Des Bones itom complete with dustbin fairing as a spare bike to the I.O.M IN 62 [which i still have the programme] all the 50 club more or less wanted to do the 1st I.O.M race even B Swain, realy good days 6o/67. Brian/Audrey have been in Canada for over 25 years now,we in 70s started sponcering and building 125,s Maico based, Clive Horton & Neil Tuxworth rode for us,Clive being British Champion ,lost its egde for me when we brought a Morbidelli the money involved was to much for short pockets regards Richard

Welcome Brader, nice to hear about the early days
That Des Bones Itom - it would be nice to see some pictures - got any?



A merry group of Dutch Itom racers.



50cc racers

[exclubracer]

Maybe this is useful to you guys....

http://forums.autosp...p;#entry3697033

[exclubracer]

A few pics from Spa, maybe some of you will recognise them?







Lovely little machines!!

[picblanc]

Charlie Mates 50cc Kreidler @ Donington last weekend.

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

[BRADER]

Charlie Mates 50cc Kreidler @ Donington last weekend.

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Hi picblanc beautyfull pic,s of stunning bikes,never thought Charlie Mates ever rode a Kreidler,knew Charlie back in the 60/70 s in the Itom days when most 50 riders moved on to the CR110.s any pics of him on the Kreidler??? regards

[50cc racer]

Some people manage to find the right sponsor!!!





50cc racer

[Rennmax]

Some people manage to find the right sponsor!!!





50cc racer

Could you give us some more information about this occasion please ? I suppose this rather scared looking young guy standing next to Franco is Nieto...

Edited by Rennmax, 26 June 2009 - 07:41.

[philippe7]

Could you give us some more information about this occasion please ? I suppose this rather scared looking young guy standing next to Franco is Nieto...

Maybe Rodil del Valle ( later chairman of the FIM IIRC ) second from right ?

[50cc racer]

Could you give us some more information about this occasion please ? I suppose this rather scared looking young guy standing next to Franco is Nieto...

We have to rely on Spanish readers here for recognition of the gentlemen surrounding Franco and Nieto?

Rumour has it that Franco preferred the Madrid- born Nieto to represent the Spanish colours in international races, and that meant that Busquets, coming from Catalunya, was down-played somewhat?
I´m speculating here!



50cc racer

[50cc racer]

Aalt Toersen made a "Rossi" today!

Last lap - last corner action in sundays race at the 44 year- race in Linköping, Sweden. The always fast Robert Lavér (S), lead most of the race on the freshly built Monark replica.
But Aalt Toersen sneaked by and took his second victory this weekend. Well done



More pictures from this international event will follow.



50ccracer

[Arthur]

Thats some performance Alt was around in my days so how old is he now?

[HEMEYLA]

Aalt is 5 years and 362 days younger than you Arthur.

Picture: Technical problem for Aalt in this race, and another sort of problem for el Ninó, it was your best GP race, remember ?

Edited by HEMEYLA, 03 August 2009 - 12:56.

[HEMEYLA]

More pictures from this international event will follow.

50ccracer

Hi Anders .... Click.

Edited by HEMEYLA, 04 August 2009 - 01:30.

[emotracing]

It think I am entitled to change Anders story a bit.
Because I was the guy riding behind these two on the picture.
Aalt had an easy victory.
He could have ridden a big gap ,if he had wanted to.
Instead he chose to make a good show with Robert Laver ,who was riding flat-out all the time.
Aalt is so fast ,its scaring.

[Arthur]

Aalt is 5 years and 362 days younger than you Arthur.

Picture: Technical problem for Aalt in this race, and another sort of problem for el Ninó, it was your best GP race, remember ?

Thanks H for reminding me how old I am Where does the time go. I assume you are referring to the 1969 Ulster GP where I finished 7th
Would have been much higher but on the push start the Honda would not fire and I had to rush into the pits and change the plug. No mechanic with me so had to do it myself which cost me over 2 min on first lap time and I was well last out of around 40 runners but managed to push the little Honda up to 7th with some frightening revs,near 16000 most of time. I liked the Ulster circuit and it suited the 50's well.Mind you it was touch and go in 1969 if the meeting would go ahead as that was the week when all the trouble started and the troops were brought in.Apparently there was a threat of disruption to the racing and the organisers considered canceling the event. I know we went a few times down into belfast and it was bedlam Even got a rifle pointed at me by a man dressed all in black for failing to stop on the falls road Turned out he was a B Special I thought he was a terrorist.

[HEMEYLA]

I assume you are referring to the 1969 Ulster GP where I finished 7th.

That's right ....... Click

[50cc racer]

More pictures from the Linköping race:



Two former GP riders: Lars Persson and Robert Lavér. At left Göran Henningsson.



Dutchmen Ronald Vingerhoed and Piet Huybers.



Jon Nordstrøm, Martijn Stehouwer, Harald Nieborg, Rolf Heljefors, all closely watched by Peter Müller.



50cc racer

[50cc racer]

Kalle Standman, Rob Jacobs, and Rikard Käll.



Harald Nieborg lapped by charging Karel Rathousky and Rolf Heljefors.



Piet Huybers chased by Rikard Käll and Kalle Strandman.



50cc racer

[50cc racer]

My bikes in the early morning dew.
(All pictures taken by Emil Elsberg )



50cc racer

[Yendor]

Snapped this shot of Charlie Mates with his Kreidler at Castle Combe at the weekend



Also this shot of Charlies Kriedler and a Garelli which, according to the programme, is a Kreidler ridden by Ron Ponti
The gentleman on the left apparently built both bikes but I didn't get his name. Perhaps someone can enlighten us?.

[50cc racer]

Snapped this shot of Charlie Mates with his Kreidler at Castle Combe at the weekend



Also this shot of Charlies Kriedler and a Garelli which, according to the programme, is a Kreidler ridden by Ron Ponti
The gentleman on the left apparently built both bikes but I didn't get his name. Perhaps someone can enlighten us?.

You have in fact been talking to Ron Ponti, British 50cc champion in 79 and 81.

Here enjoying his Kreidler in Sweden 2004.



50cc racer

[Yendor]

Found this nice paddock shot of Phil Horsham? and his CR110.

[fil2.8]

Started at a young age did'nt he Rod ??

[Yendor]

Started at a young age did'nt he Rod ??

Well it was all about keeping the weight to a minimum you know

You know damn well he's standing on the left. I wonder if it is his family?

[Herr Wankel]

Found this nice paddock shot of Phil Horsham? and his CR110.

He's still taller than Dani Pedrosa
HW

[Arthur]

Honda CR110 how we all wish we had kept them. I know you can get the Honda Dream now but why people say its a copy of the CR110 baffles me as its nothing like it.

[Herr Wankel]

Honda CR110 how we all wish we had kept them. I know you can get the Honda Dream now but why people say its a copy of the CR110 baffles me as its nothing like it.

Don't start me off Arthur.I still kick myself every day!
HW

[50+]

Don't start me off Arthur.I still kick myself every day!
HW

Oh Yes. I remember asking my father to lend me £200 so I didn't have to sell my CR110 because ,"It was such a beautiful thing & might be worth something one day". His reply, "I,m not lending you money to buy bl****y motorbikes". Hey ho.

[roadshop]

Was ist denn das für ein ding?



Poul Erik

[T54]

Please see post # 17.

By the way, is it JLO or ILO?

[HEMEYLA]

The ILO definition comes from the artificial language Esperanto and means "tool".
Apparently there are two spellings of the name: ILO and JLO.
The name "JLO" was used as a design option for a company logo and engine with the handwritten name of the capital letter I to form before printing letters L.
The other style of writing was used in correspondence and ILO is correct.

[roadshop]

That`s the thing!!
Special made frame, very light.
Gritzner used JLO and Zündapp engines.
This bike was made for Motocup in 1960.
A later version had a Monsa-based pressed steel frame
for promoting moped sales.
Did not help - production ziesed in 1962.
Glad to have puzzled some off you guys.

Poul erik

[50cc racer]

Homebuilt racers sporting Ilo engines too - both Swedes.
First one from 63.



A question for the many CR110 connoisseurs present in this forum!
Who can distinguish between these barrels/ pistons? Which one came from the first batch of CR110´s (5- speed model)?





50cc racer

[Herr Wankel]

Homebuilt racers sporting Ilo engines too - both Swedes.
First one from 63.



A question for the many CR110 connoisseurs present in this forum!
Who can distinguish between these barrels/ pistons? Which one came from the first batch of CR110´s (5- speed model)?





50cc racer

I think this is one for Arthur.I never even knew that there was a 5 speeder until years after I got rid of mine.As far as I am aware,we only had 8 speeders in the UK.There were 2 types of crankcase I know.1 with a quite pronounced hump just behind the barrel on the clutch side.The 2 pistons in the photo are different.Just a guess,but maybe the 5 speed had a slightly lower compression ratio.Different inlet cam on the right also.Hughie McIvors CR,which was the original Val Knapp bike,and I believe the 1st production CR to reach the UK,had its ignition cam on the end of the inlet cam,similar to (perhaps some of) the early factory singles.Weren't they designated RC 110 or 111?More fins on the right hand barrel also?
HW

Edited by Herr Wankel, 07 September 2009 - 19:22.

[roadshop]

The early parts must be to the left, alone because of contact breaker being
on the inlet-camshaft. The 8-speed version had contacts in front of clutch.
As can be seen, there were other differences. Boring was also encriesed
from 40 to 40.4.
The long intake-stud I only remember to have seen on RC111.
PE

[Arthur]

From my memory the components on the left are from the production model cr110 8 speeder.
Those on the right would have been from the earlier model

[roadshop]

I have a very detailed Gunze modelkit of an early 5-speed CR110, as well as of an 8-speed RC110.
The lump on the right-side crankcase is there on the late bike and not on the early one.
See what Joep Kortekaas has on the subject:
www.vf750fd.com/Joep.../honda_race_history.html -

[50cc racer]

Here is some info of CR110 pistons:

From the ever interesting Lump-Proof site:

http://www.lump-proo.../CR3/index.html




50cc racer

[roadshop]

Here are some period photos of the Gritzner-bike.

After the factory efforts, Klaus Klüglich took over the Metzger-bike for the 63-season.







P.E.

[T54]

P.E.
Thanks for posting the pictures that clearly show the bikes the way they WERE and not the way some were improperly restored with non-period components.

[50cc racer]

As T54 keeps telling us: The Kreidlers made Itoms obsolete - evolution!







50cc racer

[HEMEYLA]

"Fast racing mopeds' on Zandvoort circuit 1957. Cees van Koeveringe with # 34 Itom.



52 years later, Cees racing his Kreidler.

Edited by HEMEYLA, 13 September 2009 - 16:40.

[Undredseesee]

"Fast racing mopeds' on Zandvoort circuit 1957. Cees van Koeveringe with # 34 Itom.



52 years later, Cees racing his Kreidler.

Number 17, which looks like a Mobylette, appears to have a pukka expansion chamber exhaust. Wow!

Most of the riders are mounted on mopeds (as we properly understand the term), sans pedals of course. I don't think we ever had races quite like that in the UK.

This early stuff is really interesting. Thank you.

[HEMEYLA]

Number 17 is a Cyrus-Zündapp, rider mr. Bruggen did a excelent exhaust job.

[HEMEYLA]

Famous Dutch rider Cees van Dongen in 1954.



and 55 years later, racing his Hummel-Kreidler.

[Undredseesee]

Number 17 is a Cyrus-Zündapp, rider mr. Bruggen did a excelent exhaust job.

I'll bet those were good days - lots of fun for very little money. Were there class divisions, or a handicap, to allow for the variation in machinery, ie single speed, rigid frame mopeds running with fully sprung two, three or four speeders?