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Ferrari F2012


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#1 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:55

As the top brass at Ferrari have announced that development on the F150 Italia has officially ceased I thought it a good time to start a thread to discuss the 2012 challenger.

Rumours going around at present include:

- The car will supposedly be more innovative.
- The car will have a pull rod suspension.
- Slightly longer wheelbase.
- The driver will sit lower in the cockpit as well the car having a generally lower profile.
- Rory Byrne has once again been asked to consult with regard to technical matters.

There has also been a reshuffle of the technical department with the role of technical director completely scrapped. Pat Fry has been given the responsibility of strengthening the technical department and rumour has it that a number of McLaren employees are en route to Ferrari.

Discuss.

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#2 MichaelPM

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:13

New parts which have already been designed and are undergoing production are still to come to the F150, right?
Also race weekends this year are basically turned into testing for next year I recall hearing  ;)


The car having a lower profile sounds strange, unless regulations cause the change I would of assumed the F150 would be as low profile as possible anyway.

#3 kosmos

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:28

"At Maranello, everything has been called into question in light of the unsatisfactory results of this season," said the Italian newspaper report.

"The (pull-rod) system will allow for a lower and smaller rear end but it will appear only next season," added Corriere dello Sport.

"In the last six races of this year, even in the races, mechanical and aerodynamic parts (for 2012) will be tested."


From nextgen-auto.

Nothing that we didn't know but it's a start.

#4 bogi

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:37

Lower seat will be way to go for all teams, because nose height is limited by the rules next year.

And everything else mentioned is wishful thinking.

#5 muramasa

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:52

F212

#6 tweiss

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:54

Can you provide a link as to where anybody discussed Rory coming back in any capacity....

#7 YellowHelmet

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:57

maybe a wise move for next year, but will it possible for alonso to stay 2nd in championship with that approach?

#8 toxicfusion

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 13:08

Was mentioned in the F150 thread, but relates to next year, on how high the driver will be and that Fernando likes to be low down.

I can remember discussion on the F150 and that the drivers were higher because Fernando wanted it like that :drunk:


I think that is a myth.


All I want is next years car to be the F2012 no more of this special naming rubbish.

Edited by toxicfusion, 14 September 2011 - 13:09.


#9 John Player

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 13:16

F151

#10 Richard T

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 13:17

All I want is next years car to be the F2012 no more of this special naming rubbish.


WORD!

#11 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 13:56

Lower seat will be way to go for all teams, because nose height is limited by the rules next year.

And everything else mentioned is wishful thinking.

Can you point out what is wishful thinking? There are plenty sources for the rumoured changes in personnel and it has long been speculated that Rory will be back in some form. Domenicali alluded to it not to long ago on the official website.

Ferrari will definitely have a pull rod suspension next year.

Also, regarding the profile of the car, it is clear to see that the sidepods of the F150 are higher than both the Red Bull and the McLaren.

I also forgot to mention that Ferrari hired Nigel Leaper (Head of composites) from Lotus-Renault.

#12 ferrarijon123

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:05

Can you provide a link as to where anybody discussed Rory coming back in any capacity....

Here http://www.f-1-news....at-ferrari.html
And this is something from the bbc http://www.bbc.co.uk...us_to_2012.html

Edited by ferrarijon123, 14 September 2011 - 14:06.


#13 Jordana

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:07

Here http://www.f-1-news....at-ferrari.html
And this is eomething from the bbc http://www.bbc.co.uk...us_to_2012.html



I did not think they were so desperate...

#14 ferrarijon123

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:10

I did not think they were so desperate...

Its hardly desperate, most cars he built were championship winning cars for ferrari apart from 2005 and 2006 where ferrari had the fastest car for half a season but didnt quite win the championship.

#15 kurski

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:17

- Rory Byrne has once again been asked to consult with regard to technical matters.

http://translate.goo...la-ferrari-2012

#16 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:21

I did not think they were so desperate...

What is desperate in having the best possible people working for you?

:stoned: Strange comment.

#17 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:32

The working name of 2012 car is "663" and it's already in the wind tunnel.

Pull Rod is a smart step, it would allow smaller and neater rear end.
- chassis, gearbox, suspension and cooling systems for its successor are also on the drawing board at Maranello
- The car "will be more aggressive"
- "Venturi ducts" or overall a chassis shaped to emphasis this effect. (How exactly, I'm not sure)


#18 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:40

The working name of 2012 car is "663" and it's already in the wind tunnel.

Pull Rod is a smart step, it would allow smaller and neater rear end.
- chassis, gearbox, suspension and cooling systems for its successor are also on the drawing board at Maranello
- The car "will be more aggressive"
- "Venturi ducts" or overall a chassis shaped to emphasis this effect. (How exactly, I'm not sure)

I read about these venturi ducts but I am at a loss as to how this will be achieved.

#19 ed24f1

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:55

I hope they do use 'F2012' of 'F212', because in 2013, they'll probably not want to use that considering the superstitions of '13', and in 2014, they'll probably name the car based on the new engine specification, as they did with the '248' in 2006.

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#20 Iridescent

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:13

New parts which have already been designed and are undergoing production are still to come to the F150, right?
Also race weekends this year are basically turned into testing for next year I recall hearing ;)


Yes.

Can you provide a link as to where anybody discussed Rory coming back in any capacity....


He's never left in the first place. Consulting for both GES and GEI for years.

maybe a wise move for next year, but will it possible for alonso to stay 2nd in championship with that approach?


Red Bull and McLaren are too looking into solutions for 2012 at this stage. We always try to get the maximum out of each race, so we'll see.

- "Venturi ducts" or overall a chassis shaped to emphasis this effect. (How exactly, I'm not sure)


People asked me about that before and I still fail to understand what is meant by this definition.





#21 King Six

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:21

Honestly they need to stop with these silly names, F60, F10, F150 Degrees Italia. They don't win championships with silly named cars, not in the 21st Century they don't! The only exception being the F2005...

Call it the F2012 and maybe their luck will change.

#22 Jordana

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:30

What is desperate in having the best possible people working for you?

:stoned: Strange comment.



Not strange at all. Being honest, Mr. Byrne retired few years ag and now, all of the suden, Ferrari intends to get him back? I think those are deseperate movements... That's all...

Oh, I don't want to forget that Mr. Byrne did not work alone... Mr. Costa was there, Mr. Martinelli was there, Mr. Brawn was there and some others so if Montezemolo & Botín want miracles... They better go to Covadonga, perhaps it works.



#23 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:38

Not strange at all. Being honest, Mr. Byrne retired few years ag and now, all of the suden, Ferrari intends to get him back? I think those are deseperate movements... That's all...

Oh, I don't want to forget that Mr. Byrne did not work alone... Mr. Costa was there, Mr. Martinelli was there, Mr. Brawn was there and some others so if Montezemolo & Botín want miracles... They better go to Covadonga, perhaps it works.

What are you on about? Nobody said Rory alone was responsible for the success but he was the chief designer and alot if not the majority of the success should be attributed to him. Come on, you can do better than that.

I didn't start this thread to bicker about Rory.

#24 Jordana

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 16:01

What are you on about? Nobody said Rory alone was responsible for the success but he was the chief designer and alot if not the majority of the success should be attributed to him. Come on, you can do better than that.

I didn't start this thread to bicker about Rory.



And who is bickering about Mr. Byrne? Not me! Please , try not to be so sensitive!

I am just surprised Ferrari is thinking about getting Mr. Byrne back after so many years being retired but who knows? Perhaps he is the solution, it could be, time will tell!

Edited by Jordana, 14 September 2011 - 16:02.


#25 Andy865

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 16:03

He hasn't been retired technically, just not a part of the team if you find my meaning. Still a ferrari employee. A little like symonds with virgin.

#26 puxanando

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 16:08

He hasn't been retired technically, just not a part of the team if you find my meaning. Still a ferrari employee. A little like symonds with virgin.


Is he not working with the street cars from Ferrari?


#27 Jordana

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 16:13

He hasn't been retired technically, just not a part of the team if you find my meaning. Still a ferrari employee. A little like symonds with virgin.


As far as I know, he left Ferrari in 2009 and he is living in Thailand.



#28 Jordana

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 16:14

Is he not working with the street cars from Ferrari?


Could you be talking about Martinelli? If so, he works for Fiat Group and in particular, for Maserati.

#29 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 16:21

Not strange at all. Being honest, Mr. Byrne retired few years ag and now, all of the suden, Ferrari intends to get him back? I think those are deseperate movements... That's all...

Oh, I don't want to forget that Mr. Byrne did not work alone... Mr. Costa was there, Mr. Martinelli was there, Mr. Brawn was there and some others so if Montezemolo & Botín want miracles... They better go to Covadonga, perhaps it works.

rory never left. he s still in the team, like last year, and all the years before that.

he just takes a back role. same right now. he is still, only a consultant.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 14 September 2011 - 16:24.


#30 Jordana

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 16:24

rory never left. he s still in the team, like last year, and all the years before that.

he just takes a back role.



OK then... My apologies, the measures are not as desperate as I thought...  ;)



#31 puxanando

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 16:27

rory never left. he s still in the team, like last year, and all the years before that.

he just takes a back role. same right now. he is still, only a consultant.


He was in Spa or Monza GP this year....there was a pic! Also has be seen with ferrari shirt in some airport......


#32 Jordana

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 16:37

He was in Spa or Monza GP this year....there was a pic! Also has be seen with ferrari shirt in some airport......



Dyer was in Monza too!  ;)

I was mistaken about Byrne, sorry!


But there is one thing that bothers me about this "story"... If Byrne is still linked to Ferrari, what has he been doing lately? Because, the last three cars won't be remembered as the best in Ferrari History... And Costa was fired recently... Oh, well, it does not make too much sense but I guess they know what they are doing.

Nevertheless, Ferrari is behaving a little funny these past few years... Eveytime Montezemolo talks, danger appears around the corner.



#33 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 16:39

He was in Spa or Monza GP this year....there was a pic! Also has be seen with ferrari shirt in some airport......

consultants can enjoy GPs, especially of their favourite teams. ;) he was probably a guest of Ferrari's.

Dyer was in Monza too! ;)

I was mistaken about Byrne, sorry!


But there is one thing that bothers me about this "story"... If Byrne is still linked to Ferrari, what has he been doing lately? Because, the last three cars won't be remembered as the best in Ferrari History... And Costa was fired recently... Oh, well, it does not make too much sense but I guess they know what they are doing.

Nevertheless, Ferrari is behaving a little funny these past few years... Eveytime Montezemolo talks, danger appears around the corner.


it is like you said, having only Byrne wouldnt make that much difference. he would have needed the people, and etc.

lol, i actually think of Luca as a kind of 'everything turns to gold' guy. he has commanded successful operations wherever he has been. but that is off topic.

anyone know anything of the new recruits? i wish them well.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 14 September 2011 - 16:46.


#34 kissTheApex

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 16:47

wow. it didn't take long for the thread to take a nose dive. lol. I hope it recovers along with fellow members' reading comprehension.

#35 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 17:14

It could well be that Rory has been asked to take a more active role as a consultant. It is true that he never left Ferrari, this is what Stefano had to say:

"Pat now has the chance to show what he is capable of, to set out the work according to his methodology and I can tell he is very motivated and I have great faith in him. Now our structure remains substantially stable: if an opportunity comes along to get someone really worthwhile, well then good, but the real secret is in finding the right combination of people, jobs and the character of the individuals. For example, I see a great relationship between Pat and Nikolas Tombazis, along with the support that comes from the amazing experience of an extraordinary man like Rory Byrne, who continues to be extremely valuable to us, even though he has been working only part time for several years now."

From the Ferrari official website.

#36 chrisj

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 19:27

When the dream team broke up, it seemed that Luca was trying to force an Italian-centered "core" to the team. That hasn't really worked out, so now they're back to poaching talent (like everyone else). One good thing about Red Bull domination is that it sort of forces McLaren and Ferrari to get radical, which is cool.

#37 BigCHrome

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 01:34

The McLaren is lower profile compared to the other cars.

#38 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:37

In regards to Venturi ducts and overall its effect, having in mind the nature of that creation, I can speculate that some inner parts of the chassis may be shaped to be a better accelerators of air, because the Venturi effect is a jet effect per se.

Still, it remains a bit mysterious to me how exactly that could be achieved, hence, I will follow tech people from F1 to get a better understanding of where that concept might be deployed. If I knew all that stuff, I'd certainly be working in F1 team (#wish...)
On the other hand, it may turn out to be just a rumor.

#39 SCUDmissile

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 16:20

what are the rules for nose height?

are they to come in for 2013, or i remember something about nose being a mandatory height for next year.

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#40 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 16:27

I think that's for 2013 but I couldn't be 100% sure

#41 One

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 08:14

Posted Image

This is a none sense Photoshop job, so there us no truth what so ever in it, but...


1. 212 will have Very Low Sidepods end. Apparently the suspension and the area around will look greatly different from what I made above.
2. 212 will have slightly lower nose and more rounded at the front end, agressice sculpting and so on.
3. ... huge internal re organizations....
4. New rear suspension...

#42 Ferrari2183

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 10:47

Source for that info please.

#43 One

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 11:59

Source for that info please.


This is me myself and I. :p


I readt that Rory said "Lower Car". And this is kinda true to my view...

#44 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 13:25

This is me myself and I. :p


I readt that Rory said "Lower Car". And this is kinda true to my view...

Lower? By how much? I hope it doesn't scrub the tarmac :) I think we've already discussed the lower seating position, something that it's cited Alonso prefers.
It's good, to some extent, that not too much new regulations are coming for 2012.

Edited by kvarbanov, 19 September 2011 - 13:25.


#45 One

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 19:43

Give more rake, so that it will not scratch the track, rather suck it.
seating position by 4 cm, rear body work at suspension by 5 cm, Nose as much front suspension at aboyt 2 cm and so on.
radiator internal etc must be by 7cm...


#46 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 14:27

Today I read reports about "first wind tunnel results very optimistic" and "Wow" was the reaction of St. Dom. when he saw the 2012 draft ...
I'm impatient ...

#47 Andy865

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 14:35

We havent heard that before.

#48 Ferrari2183

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 15:06

Does anyone have a pic of this front wing that was tested?

#49 aray

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 15:33

Today I read reports about "first wind tunnel results very optimistic" and "Wow" was the reaction of St. Dom. when he saw the 2012 draft ...
I'm impatient ...

if it is st. domicelli,then i am not satisfied...it is his job to say 'WOW' to whatever he see...don't seem like demanding man... :smoking:
anyway it is too too early to be optimistic...

#50 MarkWRX

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 17:06

A co-worker's brother works for Fluent, the CFD software that Ferrari uses, and was recently in Italy doing some consulting for Fluent.

He claims that he saw a render of the 2012 F1 car while working with Ferrari to help install an update to Fluent.

He said it's red.








:cool: