324 replies to this topic

[PretentiousBread]

Obviously mixed feelings were had on Pirelli's stiffly constructed, highly degradable 'racing tyres' in 2011. What are people's hopes for the coming year and what do you think they will do with the construction of the new tyre?

Paul Hembry has said the tyres will be softer but will be able to be 'pushed more'.

Personally I would like a tyre that is racey - note, racey does not mean '**** that degrades unavoidably at a massive rate' as seems to be what some think - they should be worthy of perhaps 15-20 hard laps of close to flat out racing before they lose too much performance, hopefully resulting in 2-3 stop races without the ridiculous levels of tyre conservation teams and drivers have had forced on them this year. The prime tyre should be a viable alternative to the option and not just be the fat kid who always gets picked last as it was in 2011.

Discuss

[Disgrace]

If the prime tyre was the fat kid being picked on then DRS was the secondary school bully that took everyone's lunch money. It is the bully that must change or be expelled. If it remains, whatever the tyres do won't matter much at most circuits.

Edited by Disgrace, 19 December 2011 - 02:23.

[PretentiousBread]

If the prime tyre was the fat kid being picked on then DRS was the secondary school bully that took everyone's lunch money. It is the bully that must change or be expelled. If it remains, whatever the tyres do won't matter much at most circuits.

Hear hear. DRS ruined as many races as it supposedly 'helped'

Turkey - ruined
Canada - cheapened
Spa - ruined
Korea - ruined
Abu dhabi - LOL

[ArtShelley]

Personally I would like a tyre that is racey - note, racey does not mean '**** that degrades unavoidably at a massive rate' as seems to be what some think - they should be worthy of perhaps 15-20 hard laps of close to flat out racing before they lose too much performance,

This. It's good that the tyres do degrade and fall away suddenly, but they should allow flat out racing for at least 15 laps before they do.

[seahawk]

It should be a tire that you have to push hard to make it work.

[jee]

Prime tyres should not be useless at the start.

[maverick69]

I follow the main sentiment here: F1 should be about flat out racing flag to flag - not the quasi endurance stuff that we saw so much of this year. Any new tyres must address this.

[Ian G]

I follow the main sentiment here: F1 should be about flat out racing flag to flag - not the quasi endurance stuff that we saw so much of this year. Any new tyres must address this.

Yep,very mild critiques on this Forum ,overall, of Pirelli's re-entry into F-1,the early season compounds IMO were a joke but it looks like 2012+ will be OK.

[goingthedistance]

I want to see a tyre that doesn't punish a driver for pushing hard. F1 is about the ragged edge and the drivers all had to learn to drive within themselves so much more last year.

[Wi000]

With Pirelli going to softer compounds and less difference between the prime and the option tire, managing the tires will be even more important next year.
Will make for interesting strategies and will separate the men from the boys re- tire management, gonna be interesting.

[Currahee]

It should be a tire that you have to push hard to make it work.

Agree with this. Managing tyres is just wrong imo.

I want to see flat out racing. Maximum attack.

[PretentiousBread]

With Pirelli going to softer compounds and less difference between the prime and the option tire, managing the tires will be even more important next year.
Will make for interesting strategies and will separate the men from the boys re- tire management, gonna be interesting.

As opposed to separating the men from the boys re-racing huh? Yes I agree, that'd be a daft notion - tyre conservation it is

[Wi000]

As opposed to separating the men from the boys re-racing huh? Yes I agree, that'd be a daft notion - tyre conservation it is

Tire management has always been part of racing but now that certain drivers s#ck at it some get all upset.
I'm looking forward to the 2012 season, gonna be fun.

[flyer121]

Obviously mixed feelings were had on Pirelli's stiffly constructed, highly degradable 'racing tyres' in 2011. What are people's hopes for the coming year and what do you think they will do with the construction of the new tyre?

Paul Hembry has said the tyres will be softer but will be able to be 'pushed more'.

Personally I would like a tyre that is racey - note, racey does not mean '**** that degrades unavoidably at a massive rate' as seems to be what some think - they should be worthy of perhaps 15-20 hard laps of close to flat out racing before they lose too much performance, hopefully resulting in 2-3 stop races without the ridiculous levels of tyre conservation teams and drivers have had forced on them this year. The prime tyre should be a viable alternative to the option and not just be the fat kid who always gets picked last as it was in 2011.

Discuss

In other words - drivers should not be limited to tyre conservation UNLESS they go for an unusual strategy like (1 less stop)

I kind of like that. The problem is the masses and the powers that be do not define that as particularly "racey" - they like the overtakes which are generated by the new-old tyre differential.

[maverick69]

Tire management has always been part of racing but now that certain drivers s#ck at it some get all upset.
I'm looking forward to the 2012 season, gonna be fun.

Of course it has - but it has to be in proportion. Having drivers lap in such a manner that tyre preservation is their soul concern is not in the spirit of F1 imo. If you like that then that's your choice.......

Edited by maverick69, 19 December 2011 - 11:32.

[nbhb]

Tire management has always been part of racing but now that certain drivers s#ck at it some get all upset.
I'm looking forward to the 2012 season, gonna be fun.

I hope it will be as Pirelli said. Last races were boring, because tyres were not degrading so much.

[Peter Perfect]

I'm hoping for something similar to the end this season. Tyres lasting 15-20 laps tops with a gradual performance decline sounds about right. I don't want to see rock hard tyres that can do a whole race and don't reward the skills of the drivers, equally tyres that fall off a cliff with no warning aren't great either.

[handel]

I want to see a tyre that doesn't punish a driver for pushing hard. F1 is about the ragged edge and the drivers all had to learn to drive within themselves so much more last year.

+1

I want a tyre that drivers can push, but that blisters heavily if they repeatedly take liberties with it. This way the aggressive drivers don't have to completely compromise their entire driving style, but they'll still get punished if they can't bring the temps back down if they push too hard.

[handel]

I hope it will be as Pirelli said. Last races were boring, because tyres were not degrading so much.

They were more boring because the teams got on-top of how to work the tyres AND the drivers had already adapted. Not Alonso's biggest fan but so sad to see him lose his aggressive turn-in driving style.

[Atreiu]

They basically need to make harder tyres that are actually worth using.

[PretentiousBread]

Tire management has always been part of racing but now that certain drivers s#ck at it some get all upset.
I'm looking forward to the 2012 season, gonna be fun.

Yes exactly, 'part of racing', not 'be all and end all of racing'.

Edited by PretentiousBread, 19 December 2011 - 12:54.

[goingthedistance]

Yes exactly, 'part of racing', not 'be all and end all of racing'.

Exactly, tyre management was too fundamental in 2011. It's an important ingredient, but it should be just that, one ingredient. Pirelli sound like they are on track to make a tyre that allows drivers to actually push at times in 2012, whilst still being degradable. I'm definitely looking forward to the prime tyre being of strategic relevance again.

[KirilVarbanov]

- Tires must be predictable so that teams can build their cars around a solid base, not arriving on the pre-season tests, dismayed about the new characteristic of the new tires, resulting in a completely destroyed season.
- Tires must not fall apart at random stages of the race.
- Tires must not be ultra-fragile - we're talking about race, not pit-stop challenge and no "nursing the tires" competition.

Inference from the above: tires must allow racing.

[fieraku]

A tire which has an optimum performance of 5 miles ain't worth crap and should not be put on a horse carrier let alone in an F1 car.

In 05 we had tires that lasted from the start of Q to the checkered flag without any significant drop in performance.Now we're in the Flinstones era with 3 lap tires.

I want tires that are the BEST,that allow for the FASTEST racing every single lap,if I wanted to see a tire saving exercise I'd watch endurance racing.

[Wi000]

I'm definitely looking forward to the prime tyre being of strategic relevance again.

Yep softer primes it will be next year, so less problems to get temperature into them but needing a bit more taking care of.

[Sakae]

[pre Christmas rant:] I do not understand Whitmarsh at all; specification for tires seems utterly on wrong track, but it will take him probably a few years to realise that, and he wants more in 2012.

Q3 IMO is screwed up already, there is very little doubt about that, and the constant yapping what tire should do should be primary indication to everyone that we have gotten swayed away from skills to overtake, to skills how to drive oversteer/understeer cars. WTF one can say? I am appauled, that while McLaren might have their (sick) view on that kind of racing, that the others actully let them, and no one has guts a say - we need new spec, because enough is enough! I should be actually happy that Seb was comfortable with 2011 tire, but then, there are probably another sixteen drivers who are not, and that cannot be good for F1 future because I fear people sooner or later will move away to another kind of past time, where less BS is served. [/end of rant]

Edited by Sakae, 19 December 2011 - 20:15.

[grunge]

Frankly speaking i wont mind them being the way they were this year....

i just dont want the mention of heating issues again..never ever...even if that means the same bubble gum tires we had this season.

[pingu666]

A tire which has an optimum performance of 5 miles ain't worth crap and should not be put on a horse carrier let alone in an F1 car.

In 05 we had tires that lasted from the start of Q to the checkered flag without any significant drop in performance.Now we're in the Flinstones era with 3 lap tires.

I want tires that are the BEST,that allow for the FASTEST racing every single lap,if I wanted to see a tire saving exercise I'd watch endurance racing.

sadly I think endurance tyres are driven harder, apart from first couple of laps, as the tyre heating regs dont allow the tyres to get as hot, and longer pitstop gives the tyres more chance to cool off. but yeah watching le mans the audi's and pugs where being driven really hard. also in enduro conservation tends tobe of the entire car, and not *just* tyres.

hard tyres that are worth putting on the car, stronger rear tyres across the board

[PretentiousBread]

sadly I think endurance tyres are driven harder, apart from first couple of laps, as the tyre heating regs dont allow the tyres to get as hot, and longer pitstop gives the tyres more chance to cool off. but yeah watching le mans the audi's and pugs where being driven really hard. also in enduro conservation tends tobe of the entire car, and not *just* tyres.

hard tyres that are worth putting on the car, stronger rear tyres across the board

It's worth quoting in full Mark Hughes' article following the Chinese GP this year about this:

"The fast-wearing traits of the Pirelli F1 tyres made for a great Chinese Grand Prix; strategic variation and hugely different performance levels according to compound and usage - enough to create overtaking even without the help of DRS wings and KERS. But there is a price.

The game has changed. Driving a grand prix is now a matter of tyre conservation. The most effective way of minimising your stint time now is not to drive flat-out but to begin it around 3s off the pace and only gradually begin to push harder - at about the same rate the tyre grip is dropping off, the two largely cancelling each other out so the net effect is near enough the same lap time throughout the stint. Hamilton's victory might have looked flat-out, but it wasn't. "I was just trying to nurse my tyres while trying to pick up pace," he said afterwards. If you didn't know better, you might think it was endurance racing. Except that in endurance racing they now drive flat-out the whole way - just like they used to in F1!

Anthony Davidson's F1 career didn't take off in the way it might have, but he's still driving flat-out - in endurance racing for Peugeot. Here's his take on it: "We do drive pretty much all-out from the start. Just as in anything, you are driving to the level of the tyre and if the tyre will take it, you cannot afford not to. My quadruple stint at Le Mans last year, which was the quickest ever, was about driving every lap like a qualifying lap. But we can't always do that. At Paul Ricard, for example, it's a very front-tyre limited track and we're finding we are having to save the tyre early in the stint to give us the fastest overall time. The mentality of F1 driving is now shifting towards that. I wouldn't say it's better or worse, just different. What's better, the 100-metre sprint or the London Marathon?"

Some drivers are adapting to it more naturally than others. Pirelli found, for example, that Fernando Alonso was initially very aggressive with the tyres, particularly the fronts, but say that he's now found the sweet spot of technique. It would be fair to say that both Hamilton and Mark Webber are only reluctantly coming to terms with the less-is-more approach. Although in Melbourne Lewis's tyres were holding out better than Sebastian Vettel's, at the more tyre-demanding venue of Sepang, flat-spotting a set of softs in qualifying eventually cost him dear in the race, forcing him onto a well-used set of hards in his third stint that left him off the pace and eventually led to a late fourth stop. "These tyres are finished," he said, after sliding off, "I'm coming in." The team implored him to stay out, pointing out there were only three laps left, but in he came anyway.

Webber, who tends to keep the lateral load on the car just that little bit longer than Vettel, is proving harder on the rubber than his team-mate and is disdainful of people being able to get in the points by driving at not much more than GP2 pace for big parts of the race. A Moto GP bike, with only two tiny strips of rubber, can lap Sepang within 13s of the times the lower order points scorers were doing in the race there. Teams are now instructing drivers to use coasting techniques into the braking areas, for if they are having to drive off the pace for the sake of tyre life, they may as well save fuel and enable the car to start lighter. In F1! It's somewhat ironic that the sport rejected Michelin's proposal to use an F1 programme to promote fuel economy tyres, yet inadvertently that's exactly what we have now.

Does it matter? If the 'show' is good, what's the problem? The problem is that F1 races have always been contested as close to flat-out as they possibly could be, given the technology of the era. For the first time, we have deliberately introduced technology that enforces endurance driving. In China the excellent show disguised that. But it won't always."

The template of an F1 race this year is essentially an endurance race.

[valachus]

- Tires must be predictable so that teams can build their cars around a solid base, not arriving on the pre-season tests, dismayed about the new characteristic of the new tires, resulting in a completely destroyed season.
- Tires must not fall apart at random stages of the race.
- Tires must not be ultra-fragile - we're talking about race, not pit-stop challenge and no "nursing the tires" competition.

Inference from the above: tires must allow racing.

Exactly. Plus, get rid of the stupid "two compounds" product placement gimmick. A well-thought range of compounds (allowing completion of a dry race with respectively 0, 1, 2 or 3 pitstops, or rather allowing driving in anger for 300, 150, 100 and 75 kms with the respective speed penalties) at the free choice of the teams would be much better, advertising-wise, even for the manufacturer. I have never used Pirelli on any of the cars I've owned (a matter of habit I guess, I usually go for either Dunlop - or Michelin even from before they were in F1), and this season didn't give me any new ideas - if anything, it made me think that Pirelli are making flashy, over-marketed, unpredictable duds which are likely to confuse even F1 engineers. How's that for encouragement? It would have been the complete opposite if I've have seen that they can build both performance and predictability in their products.
So, more than anything else, the tire compound mix should NOT be hand-picked by Pirelli for each race!
There's a great article http://www.racer.com...article/219407/ - that's discussed in another topic - http://forums.autosp...howtopic=158925 - which makes a few crucial points: "Today, with the huge advances made in simulation, a team arrives with 90 percent – maybe more – of the setup already defined." and especially this: "The aero levels most appropriate to the circuit and the ride-height range are set at the factory. The damping rates are set then, too, on the seven-post rig or on the simulated seven-poster. This is because the packaging of an F1 car is so tight that it would just be impractical to be changing dampers during the limited amount of running time you have on a grand prix weekend.".
It's then all in vain, in the time of frozen development - for e.g. a team like Sauber - which I think went for a build philosophy oriented towards conserving tyres during long stints - if the tyre specs brought by Pirelli disintegrate anyways!

[fieraku]

It's worth quoting in full Mark Hughes' article following the Chinese GP this year about this:





The template of an F1 race this year is essentially an endurance race.

Great article,my thoughts exactly I wish I could write them down in such way.A shame really that these tires have killed the racing in F1.
It should be called F1 Conserving instead.

The lap times this year were ridiculously slow and the MotoGP example shows just that,unbelievable.

sadly I think endurance tyres are driven harder, apart from first couple of laps, as the tyre heating regs dont allow the tyres to get as hot, and longer pitstop gives the tyres more chance to cool off. but yeah watching le mans the audi's and pugs where being driven really hard. also in enduro conservation tends tobe of the entire car, and not *just* tyres.

hard tyres that are worth putting on the car, stronger rear tyres across the board

I'm gonna have to start watching some LeMans,drivers on the edge lap after lap is why I watched F1 not this tiddling around saving tires. Sh** I got a better idea than the stupid Pirellis to improve the show, just underfuel everyone and lets see who gets the best MPG,that's an interesting show at least.

[scheivlak]

I see - this thread is not about the 2012 Pirelli tyres, it's just about everything one could whine about. The 2011 tyres, DRS and everything else.

On a side note, everybody with a sense of history knows that the art of preserving your car to the finish has always been a part of GP racing.
One might say that only since 1994 (Start of Mosley's Decisive Fuel Pitstop Era) we know F1 as a succession of continual sprint stints.

[fieraku]

Exactly. Plus, get rid of the stupid "two compounds" product placement gimmick. A well-thought range of compounds (allowing completion of a dry race with respectively 0, 1, 2 or 3 pitstops, or rather allowing driving in anger for 300, 150, 100 and 75 kms with the respective speed penalties) at the free choice of the teams would be much better, advertising-wise, even for the manufacturer. I have never used Pirelli on any of the cars I've owned (a matter of habit I guess, I usually go for either Dunlop - or Michelin even from before they were in F1), and this season didn't give me any new ideas - if anything, it made me think that Pirelli are making flashy, over-marketed, unpredictable duds which are likely to confuse even F1 engineers. How's that for encouragement? It would have been the complete opposite if I've have seen that they can build both performance and predictability in their products.
So, more than anything else, the tire compound mix should NOT be hand-picked by Pirelli for each race!
There's a great article http://www.racer.com...article/219407/ - that's discussed in another topic - http://forums.autosp...howtopic=158925 - which makes a few crucial points: "Today, with the huge advances made in simulation, a team arrives with 90 percent – maybe more – of the setup already defined." and especially this: "The aero levels most appropriate to the circuit and the ride-height range are set at the factory. The damping rates are set then, too, on the seven-post rig or on the simulated seven-poster. This is because the packaging of an F1 car is so tight that it would just be impractical to be changing dampers during the limited amount of running time you have on a grand prix weekend.".
It's then all in vain, in the time of frozen development - for e.g. a team like Sauber - which I think went for a build philosophy oriented towards conserving tyres during long stints - if the tyre specs brought by Pirelli disintegrate anyways!

This idea of the car being built to suit the tires is beyond demented. I miss the days when the tires were made to fit the car not the other way around.

To use a dumb analogy is like going buying a set of Pirelli Zeros and then going over to say Mercedes Benz and tell them build me a 20 million dollar prototype that fits these 1000 dollar tyres best. & spend as much as you can to make these tires work,I'd like to think if I'm spending 20 million on a car the Tire Company better come and take measurements at my house and just be happy that I'm using them.

[as65p]

Tyres should be as safe as possible, which the Pirellis seem to be. Other than that, I don't care much. The best drivers will get the best out of whatever tyres they're given, just like it has always been.

[scheivlak]

This idea of the car being built to suit the tires is beyond demented. I miss the days when the tires were made to fit the car not the other way around.

Don't take every utterance at face value, and certainly not when it's about tyres on F1 cars.
It's always so easy when you're messing things up as a constructor to blame everything on the tyres! The perfect sacrificial lamb and even more so now there's no tyre war, so you don't have to be diplomatic when you say something about your tyre partner.

First read the great interviews with Pierre Dupasquier on this site at the end of the 2004 season for some perspective, I would say.

Edited by scheivlak, 20 December 2011 - 00:17.

[tkulla]

Tyres should be as safe as possible, which the Pirellis seem to be. Other than that, I don't care much. The best drivers will get the best out of whatever tyres they're given, just like it has always been.

Quit making sense! Don't you know that Pirelli should be making tyres that suit Lewis?;)

[fieraku]

I see - this thread is not about the 2012 Pirelli tyres, it's just about everything one could whine about. The 2011 tyres, DRS and everything else.

On a side note, everybody with a sense of history knows that the art of preserving your car to the finish has always been a part of GP racing.
One might say that only since 1994 (Start of Mosley's Decisive Fuel Pitstop Era) we know F1 as a succession of continual sprint stints.

And everyone with a sense of technology knows materials of 25 years ago were not as durable or as high tech as today and were more liable to break. Ceramic composites and exotic alloys allow for engines to last what they last and rarely blow up and for brakes to be as efficient as ever..............but oh noooooooo............lets go back to 1930's tires and tire technology and use the good old "it's always been this way"

Is F1 devolving back to the 70's now?

[fieraku]

Don't take every utterance at face value, and certainly not when it's about tyres on F1 cars.
It's always so easy when you're messing things up as a constructor to blame everything on the tyres! The perfect sacrificial lamb and even more so now there's no tyre war, so you don't have to be diplomatic when you say something about your tyre partner.

First read the great interviews with Pierre Dupasquier on this site at the end of the 2004 season for some perspective, I would say.

Untrue.Everyone from Bernie to Whitmarsh was kissing Pirelli's arse,because supposedly they were the ones to agree to make sh** tires,while Bridgestone refused and said I want no part of this circus.

Bernie Ecclestone has heaped praise on Pirelli for improving Formula One and being daring enough to produce tyres that degrade quickly.

Races have been exciting this season due to unpredictable strategies and the huge difference in the amount of grip offered by new and old tyres. This has been achieved by Pirelli deliberately manufacturing tyres that are only good for 15-25 laps, something that Ecclestone reckons the other tyre companies would not have been comfortable with.

"Only Pirelli would do it, and we must thank them," he told Blick. "It was brave and the show has improved. Michelin and Bridgestone refused to build tyres like this because they were worried about their image."

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/48816.html


@ the picture in that article.

[zack1994]

Untrue.Everyone from Bernie to Whitmarsh was kissing Pirelli's arse,because supposedly they were the ones to agree to make sh** tires,while Bridgestone refused and said I want no part of this circus.


http://en.espnf1.com...tory/48816.html


@ the picture in that article.

Everything bernie said is true no ass licking whatsoever.

[fieraku]

Everything bernie said is true no ass licking whatsoever.

Yeah sure.

[scheivlak]

And everyone with a sense of technology knows materials of 25 years ago were not as durable or as high tech as today and were more liable to break. Ceramic composites and exotic alloys allow for engines to last what they last and rarely blow up and for brakes to be as efficient as ever..............but oh noooooooo............lets go back to 1930's tires and tire technology and use the good old "it's always been this way"

Is F1 devolving back to the 70's now?

I can't see what's so wrong about a 1970s-like formula, but let's keep the discussion about the topic, tyres- do you want tyres that last the entire distance?
That's what you seem to imply (not very 1930s BTW!). But then people will start whining about tyres that don't give maximum speed......

Apart from that you're contradicting yourself. You can't say at the same time that F1 cars are so much more developed (brakes, materials etc) compared to former years and say the same time that they are driven far more in a conservation mode than in former years.
Two things are different than in say, 2008 or 2009: there are other tyres and there are no fuel stops, so you start with a heavy car. But just like before drivers have to find a way to optimize speed with strategy; foot and head. Being too conservative doesn't pay, being too hard doesn't pay.
The current formula (you start heavy and you have to make your mind up during the race about tyre strategy) is a bit like the mid/later 80s in that respect (with KERS/DRS as a -rather pseudo- turbo boost). Not the worst of eras IMHO.

[SlateGray]

I hope in 2012 Pirelli continue to do the fine job they have been doing, they had a mandate and they executed very well imho.
Am I the only one who thinks so?

Ms.Slate has a snack to go with the drink of the day

[fieraku]

I can't see what's so wrong about a 1970s-like formula, but let's keep the discussion about the topic, tyres- do you want tyres that last the entire distance?
That's what you seem to imply (not very 1930s BTW!). But then people will start whining about tyres that don't give maximum speed......

Apart from that you're contradicting yourself. You can't say at the same time that F1 cars are so much more developed (brakes, materials etc) compared to former years and say the same time that they are driven far more in a conservation mode than in former years.
Two things are different than in say, 2008 or 2009: there are other tyres and there are no fuel stops, so you start with a heavy car. But just like before drivers have to find a way to optimize speed with strategy; foot and head. Being too conservative doesn't pay, being too hard doesn't pay.
The current formula (you start heavy and you have to make your mind up during the race about tyre strategy) is a bit like the mid/later 80s in that respect (with KERS/DRS as a -rather pseudo- turbo boost). Not the worst of eras IMHO.

Not at all,they are driven such way due to tires and what those permit. from another thread............

Another person who cannot differentiate between different degrees of tyre saving. "Huh, tyre saving has always been around, therefore it is just like before, nothing has changed and you're all idiots for thinking it has" is the jist of what you and PNSD have been saying....


Lewis Hamilton during pre-season testing:

"It's very strange.....even compared to last year, when we had heavy fuel and you had to drive it a little easier at the beginning of the race to preserve the tyres. The tyres just go away so fast and there's nothing you can do about it. I didn't feel like I was really racing the car." and in a separate interview "it's not racing, it's just driving around."


Mark Webber during pre-season testing:

"Don't watch me mate, I'm only doing long runs this afternoon. It's going to be painfully slow."


Adrian Newey on Malaysia 2011:

"We were trying to go as slow as we could to win the race......Seb in particular drove to the slowest pace that he could to conserve the tyres."


Lewis Hamilton on his charge through the field to win in China 2011:

"I was just trying to nurse my tyres while picking up pace"


Hamilton to pit radio Valencia 2011:

"I can't go any slower"


Mark Hughes' summation of the Pirelli tyres:

"The mechanism by which the circuit rubbers in and a chemical bonding unfolds at higher grip levels didn't really happen - almost all of the grip was 'mechanical' rather than chemical, derived by the tyres contact patch simply clawing the surface against the road. It used to be the case that as grip rose, the chemical bonding process would increase. That meant fast cars did not usually degrade their tyres faster than slow cars, but with the Pirellis the faster you went, the faster the tyre lost performance"

What more does it take for people to accept that a vast proportion of F1 in 2011 wasn't much more than a tyre saving exercise?

I want tires that allow a driver push like hell 100% of the time,whether it's 20 lap stints or one set for the whole race.

[Sakae]

The same bad idea like grooved tires. It will go away one day, but, until then, we will have to live with it. I was hoping there is more grown ups in FOTA.

[tkulla]

Not at all,they are driven such way due to tires and what those permit. from another thread............


I want tires that allow a driver push like hell 100% of the time,whether it's 20 lap stints or one set for the whole race.

No, you want tyres that don't require anything of the driver, because your driver (Hamilton) seems to not be as good at it as the other top tier guys (Vettel, Alonso, Button).

If Lewis was gaining an advantage from these tyres over his rivals you wouldn't be calling for change.

[fieraku]

No, you want tyres that don't require anything of the driver, because your driver (Hamilton) seems to not be as good at it as the other top tier guys (Vettel, Alonso, Button).

If Lewis was gaining an advantage from these tyres over his rivals you wouldn't be calling for change.

Vettel was affected as was Alonso and Webber and every team that didn't set a Q3 time,think before you post. I know you love JB Tony so of course you love this tires&racing.

[zack1994]

Vettel was affected as was Alonso and Webber and every team that didn't set a Q3 time,think before you post. I know you love JB Tony so of course you love this tires&racing.

As was jenson.

[PNSD]

Vettel was affected as was Alonso and Webber and every team that didn't set a Q3 time,think before you post. I know you love JB Tony so of course you love this tires&racing.

Quick question... Would you feel the same if lewis had won in the same way seb did? And if button struggled like lewis?? Of course you wouldn't. Don't pretend you care about the sports progress or how the entertainment factor is viewed. Get off your high horse and admit the only reason you're an unhappy “fan” is because lewis showed a lack of talent and skill to Vettel, Alonso and funnily enough Button!

[jamiegc]

I want tires that allow a driver push like hell 100% of the time,whether it's 20 lap stints or one set for the whole race.

That would result in no pitstops at all and almost certainly mean that whoever makes it into corner 1 first will win the race.

[ArtShelley]

Tyres should be as safe as possible, which the Pirellis seem to be. Other than that, I don't care much. The best drivers will get the best out of whatever tyres they're given, just like it has always been.

It's a nice statement. Even seems to make sense. Until you read this http://www.planetf1....esting-has-hurt

7xWDC Schumi says: ".... I have had some problems with the tyres. I have not learned how to interpret them correctly."

Sometimes the best drivers don't always get the best out of whatever tyres they're given, just like it has always been.

PS. I have no problems with the Pirellis. Personally I would prefer tyres that would allow hard racing for 15 to 20 laps but I don't see the point of having a whinge. The tyres are what they are. There will always be elements of a car, tyre, regulations etc that will suit some drivers over others. Even with last year, the one car could have some elements that suit a driver whilst other elements that don't suit the same driver. So what.