467 replies to this topic

[Andrew Hope]

The delta wing is horrible. If F1 looks like what autosport is suggesting we'll have a problem, but the delta wing is still way worse. 

I really don't mean to be a dick, but I've never seen a post from you that looked like you had any idea what you're talking about? the Delta Wing? That sports car that isn't an IndyCar, which has nothing to do with what I mentioned?

[madrocker]

I don't understand why some people are blaming the FIA for this.  Who reasonably saw this coming?  Its the first we are hearing about it and most people assumed 2014 was going to result in decent looking cars.

 

Seriously, everyone who wants to blame the rule makers, where were your concerns/complaints before?  The FIA is not run by design gurus with windtunnels and CFD supercomputers that can test out all the possible design interpretations.  They, and most everyone else, most likely did not see this coming. 

There was a thread predicting this on F1Technical at least a month ago. Not hard thing to ask the teams and the FIA to be able to predict such development since they don't seem to be too short on smarts. Who knows.

Edited by madrocker, 12 November 2013 - 17:52.

[FBJim]

If you want cars to be pretty, follow the WEC. F1 is supposed to be about extreme prototypes, and the cars have often, thoroughout the history of the sport, been horrificly ugly. One doesn't mind if it's an ugly innovation such as Tyrell's extra front wheels or the Brabham fan. Even front and rear wings, when they were first introduced, weren't designed with aesthetics in mind and looked pretty horrible. Personally I don't mind as long as the rules aren't so narrow as to make all the cars look the same.

 

This isn't "innovation", this is just cars that look ugly as **** because of extremely strict rules about nose heights. Function over form, like the Chaparral 2J, can be attractive in it's own way- this is not.

Edited by FBJim, 12 November 2013 - 17:55.

[SonnyViceR]

Modern F1 car that looks like garbage? Shock horror! The last time I found F1 cars even moderately attractive was 2006.

[DS27]

Yeah they'll probably still be better looking that the average car from the 1970s. That was a painful decade for the eyes.

 

We must have looked at a different F1 - those cars were, on the whole, fantastic

 

The fairly loose regs and possible interpretation of the rules was great. I mean, we had 6-wheeled F1 cars, and there were clear differences between most of the teams cars. Now, only dedicated fans can tell any of them apart.

[PayasYouRace]

We must have looked at a different F1 - those cars were, on the whole, fantastic

 

The fairly loose regs and possible interpretation of the rules was great. I mean, we had 6-wheeled F1 cars, and there were clear differences between most of the teams cars. Now, only dedicated fans can tell any of them apart.

 

What I see is a decade dominated by weird angles, odd scoops and intakes, exposed engines and (relatively) clunky suspension. Sure there were lots of differences, and technically it's a fascinating decade, but only a few cars from back then actually look good to me.

 

Contrast the 90s, when just about every car was sleek, slim and clean.

[DS27]

I don't understand why some people are blaming the FIA for this.  Who reasonably saw this coming?  Its the first we are hearing about it and most people assumed 2014 was going to result in decent looking cars.

 

Seriously, everyone who wants to blame the rule makers, where were your concerns/complaints before?  The FIA is not run by design gurus with windtunnels and CFD supercomputers that can test out all the possible design interpretations.  They, and most everyone else, most likely did not see this coming. 

 

 

To be fair, clearly no one on here is likely to be able to interpret the rules to this extent. If they could, they best go and get a job in motorsport.

 

However, i'm sure there's more than one or two people with experience in this area of F1 but currently retired / out of work who they could have paid a small consultancy fee, to see if they could foresee something like this. This is assuming that running draft rules past the current teams isn't viable for one reason or another i.e vested interest meaning they agree on nothing...

[DS27]

What I see is a decade dominated by weird angles, odd scoops and intakes, exposed engines and (relatively) clunky suspension.

 

Yep, I loved it.

 

Beauty is obviously in the eye of the beholder I guess.

[Oho]

Or suck up ants?

 

We have progressed form platypus to aardvark, wonder if Edmund fancies stepping on its protruding nasal implement.

Edited by Oho, 12 November 2013 - 18:13.

[Seanspeed]

It is the FIA’s problem, the nose rules from 2012 and 2014 can all be worked out by someone with just a little knowledge (i.e. me) reading through the rules.  The team’s raised both these issues through TWG with the FIA, with no agreement.  The mandatory nose tip section is tiny, being just 10% of the front bulkhead size, along with beign able to crash test the cars, the aerodynamicists were always going to run the nose tip to a minimum size. 

So why is this apparently the first we are hearing of it and why is this only now being made an issue?  The rules have been released for quite a while now. 

 

I mean, no offense, but have you put out an article/blog/statement on this somewhere in the past? Surely this would have been pretty news-worthy stuff to talk about?

Edited by Seanspeed, 12 November 2013 - 18:14.

[Gyan]

On the bright side, Lotus and Sauber could look to Durex for sponsorship next season.

[Seanspeed]

There was a thread predicting this on F1Technical at least a month ago. Not hard thing to ask the teams and the FIA to be able to predict such development since they don't seem to be too short on smarts. Who knows.

Ok fair enough.  A month ago somebody was able to pick up on it.  But how soon before that did the teams figure it out? 

 

Just sayin - its probably very difficult for the FIA to future-proof regulations from ugly designs.  People pride F1 on being an innovative sport, full of clever people.  I think if it was possible to foresee everything from the get-go, there wouldn't be much room for these clever people, would there? 

[Frankbullitt]

This is a worry to be honest, the stepped noses were hard to get used to, these will be impossible.

[Hayden1]

quick fix could be to mandate the front wing pillars to start onyl 2-3 cm behind the nose tip (or that they can only be 7-8 cm long), then we could have cars like these:

 

 

the nose profile itself is very similar (but smoothed out, rather than boxy like on the autosport pic), and still it looks much better (a beauty in my eyes)

 

or mandate that the nose can't get slimmer (excluding the nose tip's curve at the very end of it) than the 70% of the bulkhead... there must be a quick fix, not like they can't change the nose tip at this stage?

this is the most beautiful car in f1 history in my mind.Thanks 4 this one .Got one on pc's screan but this is one off the scale. Regards

Edited by Hayden1, 12 November 2013 - 18:29.

[Fastcake]

What I see is a decade dominated by weird angles, odd scoops and intakes, exposed engines and (relatively) clunky suspension. Sure there were lots of differences, and technically it's a fascinating decade, but only a few cars from back then actually look good to me.

 

Contrast the 90s, when just about every car was sleek, slim and clean.

 

The 90s happened to hit a sweet spot where the car basics were figured out, but the teams hadn't yet discovered the insane aerodynamic possibilities.

[scarbs]

So why is this apparently the first we are hearing of it and why is this only now being made an issue?  The rules have been released for quite a while now. 

 

I mean, no offense, but have you put out an article/blog/statement on this somewhere in the past? Surely this would have been pretty news-worthy stuff to talk about?

 

As soon as the regs were released the loopholes were there to be seen, finding ways to get a high nose with a legal low nose tip.  I sat down with a Herts Uni student way back in May and we had both independently come to similar 'legality nose tip' designs, we never thought they'd get that far.  We thought surely a clarification from Charlie would stop this, but it didn't.  I knew for certain about 6 weeks ago this would be the direction for many teams.

 

I've posted simple interpretations of the new regs based on current design.  But I don't tend to publish new season 'prediction' stuff, until after the seasons end.  The Autosport guys wanted something to follow up on the recent TD "ugly" comments on the subject, hence it comes out now.

 

I've not even got started on the potential in the rules for other nose interpretations, loopholes for a high chassis and exhaust blown solutions in 2014

Edited by scarbs, 12 November 2013 - 19:05.

[Andrew Hope]

As soon as the regs were released the loopholes were there to be seen, finding ways to get a high nose with a legal low nose tip.  I sat down with a Herts Uni student way back in May and we had both independently come to similar 'legality nose tip' designs, we never thought they'd get that far.  We thought surely a clarification from Charlie would stop this, but it didn't.  I knew for certain about 6 weeks ago this would be the direction for many teams.

 

I've posted simple interpretations of the new regs based on current design.  But I don't tend to publish new season 'prediction' stuff, until after the seasons end.  The Autosport guys wanted something to follow up on the recent TD "ugly" comments on the subject, hence it comes out now.

You do excellent work and it's appreciated!

[maverick69]

When that car was born........ the midwife slapped its mother in the face.......

[KWSN - DSM]

Agree it is FIA's problem, they want to make F1 a spec series so squeezing the teams into more and more confined spaces design wise.

 

[zachary2142]

So next year's cars will look like Snape with a moustache?

[redreni]

This isn't "innovation", this is just cars that look ugly as **** because of extremely strict rules about nose heights. Function over form, like the Chaparral 2J, can be attractive in it's own way- this is not.

I don‘t disagree, but for me the problem is not ugliness but enforced sameness. If F1 ever adopts a spec chassis, it could be the best looking car ever made but I‘d still prefer it if we had a dozen different, but equally ugly, cars.

[sheogorath]

So next year's cars will look like Snape with a moustache?

 

 

     

[matty2354]

[Seanspeed]

As soon as the regs were released the loopholes were there to be seen, finding ways to get a high nose with a legal low nose tip.  I sat down with a Herts Uni student way back in May and we had both independently come to similar 'legality nose tip' designs, we never thought they'd get that far.  We thought surely a clarification from Charlie would stop this, but it didn't.  I knew for certain about 6 weeks ago this would be the direction for many teams.
 
I've posted simple interpretations of the new regs based on current design.  But I don't tend to publish new season 'prediction' stuff, until after the seasons end.  The Autosport guys wanted something to follow up on the recent TD "ugly" comments on the subject, hence it comes out now.
 
I've not even got started on the potential in the rules for other nose interpretations, loopholes for a high chassis and exhaust blown solutions in 2014

Well cool, fair enough. I dont feel bad for being skeptical unless somebody can reasonably prove their point!

As far as not getting started on the other things, I think we'd all love to hear some of these ideas.

[jonpollak]

Can we get Jovanotti to use the 'Anteater' as a template for the 2014 Design the Livery thread?

Imagine the hilarity...

Jp

[wrcva]

maybe Bernie is trying tell us something. the new nose looks like upside down middle finger... 

 

[Henri Greuter]

To have worries about cars becoming ugly...

That suggests that the current cars are beautiful

Well at least not for me

Even the DW12 Indycar looks much better if it comes to what is in front of the front wheels.

 

 

Isn't it time by now to plea for a ban on raised noses and reverse to the kind of noses we saw till 1990 or so? Given the fact that most of us want a ban on grip enhancing Aero, in which these raised noses also play an important part?

Kills two flies with one stone,

 

 

Henri

[Tosh]

Well... it doesn't matter how they look as long as the racing is good. Right? *sigh*

Edited by Tosh, 12 November 2013 - 20:34.

[ThomFi]

 

 

Wouldn't be surprised in the least,  if next year's Red Bull will exactly look like this.  And on the  f1technical board, they will post videos where this "thing" (Nose, Pen*s, whatever) is allegedly flexing or wobbling around. And there will be people, who will claim, it would be a mass damper (if they have not already done it.). How predictable *yawn*.

[BoozeBaron]

You really do think they'd have learnt after 2011 and all the fugly step noses back then!?    - Sigh...

 

Hard to really see the downward slope... so took 30 seconds to fill it in some (sorry for the sh!t photoshop effort - but am at work) ... 

 

FWIW - Newey has already said the 2014 RBR is UGLY....  Hope someone wises up, and fast!!

 

 

 

2014-F1-NOSE by BoozeBaron

[JHSingo]

Never thought I'd be saying this, but I miss the stepped noses already...

[PayasYouRace]

To have worries about cars becoming ugly...

That suggests that the current cars are beautiful

Well at least not for me

Even the DW12 Indycar looks much better if it comes to what is in front of the front wheels.

 

 

Isn't it time by now to plea for a ban on raised noses and reverse to the kind of noses we saw till 1990 or so? Given the fact that most of us want a ban on grip enhancing Aero, in which these raised noses also play an important part?

Kills two flies with one stone,

 

 

Henri

 

Well considering that these new regulations were supposed to go some way towards that goal, you'd basically have to enforce the use of a standard nose with a full length floor to get something like that. 

[Disgrace]

2014 is going to be a transitional year for everybody concerned; the fans will find out whether we should really give a **** about F1 for the next era.

Edited by Disgrace, 12 November 2013 - 21:28.

[Tenmantaylor]

So the purpose is for safety... but if this token adornment is as small and presumably weak when compared to a tip of more substantial girth, will it even serve it's purpose?

[Shambolic]

Teams complaining because of aesthetics, or because they can't make it work as well as they want it to?

 

Or teams complaining in the hope it will be changed, and disrupt the progress other teams have made in this area?

 

Because these same teams throw godawful liveries on their carbon fibre monstrosities without complaint, they had ridiculous fins, winglets and other hideous appendages when it made them faster. Yet a slightly droopy nose is offensive to their delicate sensibilities..

[Longtimefan]

Please tell me thats a joke..

[Afterburner]

The only good thing to come from noses designed to look like that... is jokes.

[Hayden1]

LADIES SHOULD LIKE THE NOSES , BUT FOR SERIOUS MATTER  i hope noone will drive to hard in others rear end   

Edited by Hayden1, 12 November 2013 - 22:19.

[Markn93]

As soon as the regs were released the loopholes were there to be seen, finding ways to get a high nose with a legal low nose tip.  I sat down with a Herts Uni student way back in May and we had both independently come to similar 'legality nose tip' designs, we never thought they'd get that far.  We thought surely a clarification from Charlie would stop this, but it didn't.  I knew for certain about 6 weeks ago this would be the direction for many teams.

 

I've posted simple interpretations of the new regs based on current design.  But I don't tend to publish new season 'prediction' stuff, until after the seasons end.  The Autosport guys wanted something to follow up on the recent TD "ugly" comments on the subject, hence it comes out now.

 

I've not even got started on the potential in the rules for other nose interpretations, loopholes for a high chassis and exhaust blown solutions in 2014

Firstly,  thanks for the contributions scarbs. Secondly is the exhaust blowing you refer to regarding the monkey seat? I thought one area where the FIA had managed to be clear was exhaust position, and limiting blowing. 

Edited by Markn93, 12 November 2013 - 22:22.

[SonJR]

It can't be unseen! Put some vanity panels on that.

[Disgrace]

As soon as the regs were released the loopholes were there to be seen, finding ways to get a high nose with a legal low nose tip.  I sat down with a Herts Uni student way back in May and we had both independently come to similar 'legality nose tip' designs, we never thought they'd get that far.  We thought surely a clarification from Charlie would stop this, but it didn't.  I knew for certain about 6 weeks ago this would be the direction for many teams.

 

I've posted simple interpretations of the new regs based on current design.  But I don't tend to publish new season 'prediction' stuff, until after the seasons end.  The Autosport guys wanted something to follow up on the recent TD "ugly" comments on the subject, hence it comes out now.

 

I've not even got started on the potential in the rules for other nose interpretations, loopholes for a high chassis and exhaust blown solutions in 2014

 

Appreciate your input. Hideous cars combined with the continuation of exhaust blowing sounds like the recipe of nightmares.

Edited by Disgrace, 12 November 2013 - 22:35.

[JacnGille]

Do we need any more evidence that F1 is run by fools.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[bogi]

Dear F1 rulers, front bulkhead height should be limited, not tip of the nose.

[chrisblades85]

2014 is going to be a transitional year for everybody concerned; the fans will find out whether we should really give a **** about F1 for the next era.

This. If the cars sound "average" and the cars look awful. No amount of DRS passing around Tilke car parks will be enough.

[Disgrace]

On a more serious note, this is the result of forcing teams to design into boxes. The cars will inevitably fill the boxes.

 

So what you're saying is that the new nose is a dick in a box?

[Pouhon]

[Lee Nicolle]

at last something attractive!!
Simple though, noses must blend at X angle from the cockpit and the wings have a max of 2 elements front and rear. That would improve the racing and the spectacle. No more flappy wings. Then get rid of the electric motors and generators and race on a reasonable amount of fuel and decent tyres. Normally aspirated 3-3.5 litre engines with simple airboxes. Modern size wheels and tyres,,eg wider and a bit taller. Say 27" tall rears and 25" high fronts that can last a race. Then you could one stop for speed or drive through for durability. And wets that are usefull in real rain too ofcourse.
And people may be interested in watching again.

[thomin]

Here's an idea: The best looking nose ever must be that from the 1994 Williams, so take that and mandate it being slapped onto every F1 car...there, done, problem solved.

[Hayden1]

Nose looks the same , hope they dont use tongue as front wing DRS . things are getting ugly.

[thomin]

Should the FIA and the teams not be able to prevent this atrocity, I propose the following design scheme: